[Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jollyolsteamed

    These people don't need for me to identify themselves. They know who they are. They have been doing it for over a year. Looking at the most recent pages before posting, I see the same names saying the same thing over and over.

    Theres no discussion, its 'I'm right and everyone is wrong' approach.

    You're the one that tagged me. And you haven't put forward any real information to back-up your counter arguments then go on to say that I'm delusional.

    Practice what I preach.., I do. When I disagree with someone, I don't reply to the entire thread with large text boxes multiple times and add a conversation with someone else making things personal.

    It speaks for itself.

    Have a good day

    [mod edit]

  • It was a pretty pessimistic and condescending podcast, with a lot of nothing being said, and more of that vague communication in the guise of "See we addressed it". Not sure why you bother to call it nuanced since all 6 of you in the podcast danced around the issue and did not even have the courtesy to address the crux of many players concerns in a direct way. Joe Neate could not even be bothered to just directly say (and instead chose to dance around it like it was a taboo word), that the PVP interactions were the source of Frustration, and instead painted it as some grand philosophical issue of game design like he was painting a Picasso, instead of just showing respect and doubling down and just saying we dont care that people are frustrated with aggressive players. He tried to spin it in that patronizing PR mannerism that he is known for, that frankly many of us are sick of hearing.

    You even had the gall to make the statement that somehow the solution was not simple (when it clearly is, just because you dont want to make that decision, is not the same of it not being simple), then followed up with what I can only perceive as a Blanket threat to anyone who uses the Alliance System. I dont know what the heck you consider "not using the Tool properly" in a game where you have spent the better part of 3 years touting "Tools Not Rules". Well which is it? Are you placing Rules, on the tools, or not? Tools that I remind you people asked for, you provided. Lets not stand on ceremony and pretend that you all were ignorant enough to think it would not be used to achieve what you continuously refuse to implement.

    Otherwise, it was just Lots of Repetition on statements that have already been said for 3 years, but with respect, if those statements were enough to quell parts of the community, many of us would not be here.

    If I have to hear, "Core Vision" one more time, I think I will vomit into a bucket, and wait for the next DDoS attack.

    As for you all playing both sides of the Camping, and Repetitive attack loop topic that you spent the better part of 5 minutes on with the unclear position on whether it was a problem or not (which it is), that too me just proves you are aware of the issues that have been addressed, but based on your condescending remark during the podcast in its wake Joe, its clear that some of you are just as much responsible for perpetuating a problem, and hiding it under the guise of "Those shared world experiences" Just because you "address" that something is a problem" but then laugh it off as some sort of "Meaningful Experience" that makes it all worth while despite in the same vein trying to acknowledge its a problem. All that does is legitimize the behavior. Makes you hypocrites in my eyes.

    Finally, as for your "Empty Hope" on two instances where you acted like, "things in the future could change", or ,"we could incorporate it later" is asanine if you wont follow through. Frankly I would have had far more respect if you had just directly said, "No this will never happen", instead of being the patronizing fools giving false hope, simply because your trying to silence a conversation that has been had for 3 plus years. Instead you were patronizing, condescending, narrow minded, and in one instance threatening, to an entire section of the community.

    But by all means, view this podcast discussion as "Nuanced" all you like. What a joke. A one sided conversation with empty promises, and glorification to sate your own ego's is hardly "addressing" the discussion.

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jollyolsteamed

    Arena is literally a PvP mode.

    Its in the name. Arena. Means youre going to fight in competition with another player/crew. It was in the marketing material with Demarco. And I can honestly say after doing it 100%, its a PvP mode. Plain and simple.

    But keep trying to defend it..

    I see it as an almost PvP mode. I seriously think Rare missed the mark on Arena. They did advertise it as both a condensed version of Main Adventure and as “the purest PvP experience” . Issue is so much more could have went into it to truly make it a pure PvP experience (TDM, last ship standing ect). In my opinion it falls flat and is kinda just a quick chest dig that oh yeah you can kill if you want but you don’t have to in order to win.

    However with that said I think many are content doing PvPVE and not some pure PvP mode anyways so I think think that’s why Rare has dumped it instead of try to fix it.

    Oh well this isn’t place to get into all that , kinda off topic.

  • @jadedragon00 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    It was a pretty pessimistic and condescending podcast, with a lot of nothing being said, and more of that vague communication in the guise of "See we addressed it". Not sure why you bother to call it nuanced since all 6 of you in the podcast danced around the issue and did not even have the courtesy to address the crux of many players concerns in a direct way. Joe Neate could not even be bothered to just directly say (and instead chose to dance around it like it was a taboo word), that the PVP interactions were the source of Frustration, and instead painted it as some grand philosophical issue of game design like he was painting a Picasso, instead of just showing respect and doubling down and just saying we dont care that people are frustrated with aggressive players. He tried to spin it in that patronizing PR mannerism that he is known for, that frankly many of us are sick of hearing.

    Hi Jade,

    In some ways I actually agree with you and think they should outright say what they truly feel, but in their defence though, I think we both understand that as a corporate entity, that would be considered bad business protocol and if we were to all speak our minds truly then we probably would be very unpopular and have zero mates like me lol.

    So they do have to dress it up somewhat. But rest assured I am with you (and we probably exist within a small minority of people) who prefer to hear the honest to God truth no matter how brutal and painful.

    That all said, if we bare the above notion in mind of PR, the power of cancel culture etc. I think it is crystal clear that they have no intention of ever having a PvE only mode with progression. And I think they make it crystal clear that the PvP aspect is intrinsic to the overall experience and will also not be watered down or removed in any way. I'm not going to condescend you by quoting them directly, because you have clearly just watched the podcast anyway.

    You even had the gall to make the statement that somehow the solution was not simple (when it clearly is, just because you dont want to make that decision, is not the same of it not being simple), then followed up with what I can only perceive as a Blanket threat to anyone who uses the Alliance System. I dont know what the heck you consider "not using the Tool properly" in a game where you have spent the better part of 3 years touting "Tools Not Rules". Well which is it? Are you placing Rules, on the tools, or not? Tools that I remind you people asked for, you provided. Lets not stand on ceremony and pretend that you all were ignorant enough to think it would not be used to achieve what you continuously refuse to implement.

    Otherwise, it was just Lots of Repetition on statements that have already been said for 3 years, but with respect, if those statements were enough to quell parts of the community, many of us would not be here.

    I'm not so sure on this bit mate. Humans are extremely persistent beings and have been known to continue doing things that are detrimental to themselves in mere hope. The statements are consistent with older ones for sure, but if they haven't quelled some of the player base, then respectfully, that is an issue for those players to come to terms with.

    If I have to hear, "Core Vision" one more time, I think I will vomit into a bucket, and wait for the next DDoS attack.

    Hehe ok I won't say it, but SWAG was a bit cheesy too. Was the site down due to a ddos attack?

    As for you all playing both sides of the Camping, and Repetitive attack loop topic that you spent the better part of 5 minutes on with the unclear position on whether it was a problem or not (which it is), that too me just proves you are aware of the issues that have been addressed, but based on your condescending remark during the podcast in its wake Joe, its clear that some of you are just as much responsible for perpetuating a problem, and hiding it under the guise of "Those shared world experiences" Just because you "address" that something is a problem" but then laugh it off as some sort of "Meaningful Experience" that makes it all worth while despite in the same vein trying to acknowledge its a problem. All that does is legitimize the behavior. Makes you hypocrites in my eyes.

    Finally, as for your "Empty Hope" on two instances where you acted like, "things in the future could change", or ,"we could incorporate it later" is asanine if you wont follow through. Frankly I would have had far more respect if you had just directly said, "No this will never happen", instead of being the patronizing fools giving false hope, simply because your trying to silence a conversation that has been had for 3 plus years. Instead you were patronizing, condescending, narrow minded, and in one instance threatening, to an entire section of the community.

    But by all means, view this podcast discussion as "Nuanced" all you like. What a joke. A one sided conversation with empty promises, and glorification to sate your own ego's is hardly "addressing" the discussion.

    I definitely understand where you are coming from here, but sometimes we need to take this Kierkegaardian leap of faith and either come to terms that what they are saying right now and implementing is how it is going to be - or continue to torture yourself with "what ifs".

    I get that you don't like some aspects of their apparent ambiguity that you mention when you write "Finally, as for your "Empty Hope" on two instances where you acted like, "things in the future could change", or ,"we could incorporate it later" is asanine if you wont follow through", but to me what they are saying is "we don't see PvP as a problem and that will never change" although it seems they want to do something about spawn killing.

    But sometimes (take this as you will), we can spend lots of time worrying over the future, be it surrounding life in general or a game we love - but it is ultimately a futile and absurd emotion, purely because we do not even know what will happen tomorrow, let alone in the general future. Who knows, perhaps in years to come, or the coming months they might do something about spawnkilling. Who knows, tomorrow they might appoint a new producer and he might turn the game into PvE only in totality lol. Who knows, tomorrow an asteroid might get past the giant vacuum cleaner of space aka Jupiter and smash into the Earth causing a mass extinction event. This is unlikely, of course, but we are generally terrible at predicting the future and I suspect the devs are not immune to that entirely.

    We cannot really punish them for things they may or may not do like some kind of thought crime utopia, we can either give them the benefit of the doubt, or uninstall and invest time elsewhere. I think it is good that they discussed it and like the guy said at the start, if it weren't for the sake of brevity - the entire podcast could easily have taken up a couple of hours.

    So while I can empathise with you - if they were to just come right out and say it - people would call them rude and inconsiderate, so in that regard, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't and do deserve a bit of slack for taking the time out to make the podcast.

    Cheers

  • @combatxkitty

    1. Harp over the same tired lines 'PvEvP' 'Rare's vision' 'original design'.

    And back to my original point. Arena goes against all that, and I've never seen you, or others really keep going on for months on Arena. There was never a mega thread and it was never a controversial topic like this one appears to be.

    1. I never explained that a PvE server should be an exact carbon copy of Adventure. So, I'm not gonna get dragged down that rabbit hole. I think there should be some differences and a place for players that don't want to PvP to have some fun without meeting some pirates (that tend to spam in chat a lot of rude things to these people as they are killing them in game).

    I wish everyone was like you and can take it but welcome to the internet. And that being said, maybe it would be wise to open up the revenue stream so that these people would play the game (instead of quit like they are being encouraged to do countless times by these same members in the community I'm talking about), and the game can get more money then more dev time and more content.

    1. 'I have seen a lot of good advice given out here. However if the game is causing someone so much emotional distress that they need to come to forums and lash out at strangers then maybe they do need to uninstall it.'

    If that is your thoughts on the matter, maybe we shouldn't encourage them to uninstall. Maybe don't engage with people that are negative to begin with?

    If you're throwing gasoline on a fire, don't complain about how big the fire is getting or how it got started if you're the one adding to it.

    1. Arena argument works perfectly. You haven't added much to the conversation other than saying I disagree.
  • @jadedragon00

    Exactly. 'Core vision' is such a misused concept. They have made plenty of content that goes against the core vision of the game.

    Merely adding alliances in the game was controversial at the time. Then Rare took it a step further and added player name-tag color changes so you can easily tell whos in your alliance and who isn't (further adding to the controversy of this 'core vision').

    Many pirates that accepted alliances liked the idea of pretending to be an alliance member only to stir up and break alliances. Now that issue is much harder to do with the name color change.

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jadedragon00

    Exactly. 'Core vision' is such a misused concept. They have made plenty of content that goes against the core vision of the game.

    Merely adding alliances in the game was controversial at the time. Then Rare took it a step further and added player name-tag color changes so you can easily tell whos in your alliance and who isn't (further adding to the controversy of this 'core vision').

    Many pirates that accepted alliances liked the idea of pretending to be an alliance member only to stir up and break alliances. Now that issue is much harder to do with the name color change.

    Oh you mean alliances where you can quite easily betray someone

    You mean that same alliance that can be a tool to destroy poor pirates who trust too easily?

    If they made it so you couldn't harm alliance members then i'd agree with you

    But as it is now its the best tool to get people to drop their guard

    Which further adds to the feeling or being a lowdown thieving pirate

    It doesn't go against their concept because it can be used as a tool to kill or to befriend and share in adventures

    I certainly haven't been struggling with the color of the names because they aren't green

  • I just see people here who must have watched a different podcast to me because I saw a team who did care about the whole playerbase without wanting to destroy the real heart and soul of the game.

    I saw a team who talked about both the good and the bad sides of alliance servers and how they are happy to turn a blind eye to them until they perceive them to be a problem..

    I saw a team who wanted to ultimately let people be the architects of their SoT experience.. They are working towards it.. It just will not be PvE only adventure servers..

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @combatxkitty

    1. Harp over the same tired lines 'PvEvP' 'Rare's vision' 'original design'.

    And back to my original point. Arena goes against all that, and I've never seen you, or others really keep going on for months on Arena. There was never a mega thread and it was never a controversial topic like this one appears to be.

    No it doesn’t and I’m not going to explain to you again why it doesn’t. I and others have explained to you the very clear difference with how Arena was presented and what it is versus what self proclaimed PvE server advocates here are asking for. I won’t repeat myself as my answer does not fit your narrative so you will refuse the obvious.

    1. I never explained that a PvE server should be an exact carbon copy of Adventure. So, I'm not gonna get dragged down that rabbit hole. I think there should be some differences and a place for players that don't want to PvP to have some fun without meeting some pirates (that tend to spam in chat a lot of rude things to these people as they are killing them in game).

    You may not but the majority who come here want a exact PvE mode and those are the people who get push back so not sure what you are complaining about. I haven’t seen anyone here oppose some type of PvE mode. I certainly do not and have tried to discuss PvE modes but I get ignored or yelled at by the PvE server advocates.

    Also keep in mind just because a mode is PvE by no means mean it will be a safe place where no one will be rude. I get sexually harassed on PvE servers often and the down side is I can’t spawn kill them into oblivion!

    I wish everyone was like you and can take it but welcome to the internet. And that being said, maybe it would be wise to open up the revenue stream so that these people would play the game (instead of quit like they are being encouraged to do countless times by these same members in the community I'm talking about), and the game can get more money then more dev time and more content.

    You don’t even know me. Do you really think I’m in the mood to deal with people online everyday? No I’m not. I don’t even like the PvP in this game. On days I know I really don’t want to have any chance of PvP I will play another game. On days I don’t want to deal with anyone at all it’s on to the Sims. It’s really that easy. That’s what I love about gaming , a different game for different days.

    I don’t expect everyone to be like me but I have to say when I log into Sea of Thieves I know that I am agreeing to be in a situation where PvP is possible. I do not get angry when people come to attack me because the only thing they know about me is that I am willingly on a game with PvP. For all they know I can sink ships left and right when it’s convenient for me (I don’t buy the way , I’m a nice pirate)

    1. 'I have seen a lot of good advice given out here. However if the game is causing someone so much emotional distress that they need to come to forums and lash out at strangers then maybe they do need to uninstall it.'

    If that is your thoughts on the matter, maybe we shouldn't encourage them to uninstall. Maybe don't engage with people that are negative to begin with?

    I will only encourage someone to take a break or uninstall if like I said it’s really affecting them. I don’t think your answer of ignoring someone in distress instead of trying to help them is a great response. Why do people act like suggesting someone uninstall or take a break from a video game is equivalent to telling them to jump off a roof? Really it’s not that deep.

    If you're throwing gasoline on a fire, don't complain about how big the fire is getting or how it got started if you're the one adding to it.

    Dramatic.

    1. Arena argument works perfectly. You haven't added much to the conversation other than saying I disagree.

    Umm ok. And exactly how are you adding to this thread discussion? Other than a flawed logic?

  • @combatxkitty

    So, you start your entire post with 'Im not going to discuss this with you'

    But you leave it on a question/cliff-hanger 'Umm ok. And exactly are you adding to this thread discussion? Other than a flawed logic?'


    Arena is a PvP mode. Its a PvP-orientated mode that doesn't hide what it is trying to do.

    -Teams are separated and expected to compete for the most points.
    -Ship with the most points win.
    -The chest was designed (redesigned from the original X marks maps), to be one focused chest with a giant beacon telling people where to compete for it.
    -Points for Naval combat are awarded more on occasion than actually turning in the chest.

    This has nothing to do with being a pirate. There is no real mystery involved as it is pretty clear in the marketing material what it is intended to be (a PvP experience).

    This does not fit the PvEvP 'core vision' the devs have intended.

    But there wasn't a big controversial backlash on this topic and no mega-thread, yet it still holds true to what you're arguing (that it doesn't fit the original design of the game).

    Have a good day.

  • @wagstr said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    I just see people here who must have watched a different podcast to me because I saw a team who did care about the whole playerbase without wanting to destroy the real heart and soul of the game.

    I saw a team who talked about both the good and the bad sides of alliance servers and how they are happy to turn a blind eye to them until they perceive them to be a problem..

    I saw a team who wanted to ultimately let people be the architects of their SoT experience.. They are working towards it.. It just will not be PvE only adventure servers..

    Meh it’s typical gamers. Some are never happy, some for decent reasons and some petty. I was playing another game with a friend and oh my goodness they been on a rampage about the game “ oh I hate this” “ it’s rigged!” “ I don’t want to play anymore!” On and on yet I see him sitting on that game all day everyday lol. I finally told him other day stop complaining to me about it or stop playing the game. Yes I said the almighty worse thing you can say to someone apparently , I told him to stop playing a video game he whines about non stop and hates. I know , I know I’m going to gamer hell now.

    Anyways I will say I do get it to a point because yes I am a gamer and I can get heated over GTAO for years as RockStar slowly killed it to bleed out every last penny they can make off of it via shark card sales. So I do get having a different vision for the game you enjoy , different from that of the dev team and hoping that “oh they will come to their senses surely!” It gets to point where people just need accept hey this is what the devs are doing. I certainly won’t waste my time campaigning to RockStar, I just stopped playing as much, hasn’t been my daily or monthly jam for that matter in while almost recently got sucked back into it due to a friend but stopped myself. Won’t spend another nickel on it either. So it is on to games I enjoy since for me the entire point of gaming is to enjoy myself.

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @combatxkitty

    So, you start your entire post with 'Im not going to discuss this with you'

    But you leave it on a question/cliff-hanger 'Umm ok. And exactly are you adding to this thread discussion? Other than a flawed logic?'


    Arena is a PvP mode. Its a PvP-orientated mode that doesn't hide what it is trying to do.

    -Teams are separated and expected to compete for the most points.
    -Ship with the most points win.
    -The chest was designed (redesigned from the original X marks maps), to be one focused chest with a giant beacon telling people where to compete for it.
    -Points for Naval combat are awarded more on occasion than actually turning in the chest.

    This has nothing to do with being a pirate. There is no real mystery involved as it is pretty clear in the marketing material what it is intended to be (a PvP experience).

    This does not fit the PvEvP 'core vision' the devs have intended.

    But there wasn't a big controversial backlash on this topic and no mega-thread, yet it still holds true to what you're arguing (that it doesn't fit the original design of the game).

    Have a good day.

    Oh well what can I say I’m just a cliff hanger type of gal.

    Anyways yeah not arguing/debating this with you.

    Have a good day too.

  • @combatxkitty

    Cause you can't. All you and the others can come up with is 'dellusional' 'flawed logic' 'core-design' yadda yadda yadda..

    But you tag me and reply.. only to not discuss anything. haha

    Yeah have a good one.

  • @jollyolsteamed Make sure we care being respectful and not name calling as according to Forum Rules.

  • This discussion is out of the game topic.

    imagine two people discussing that grass would be better red.
    Grass is green because of the chloroplasts.
    It would not make sense if it were red, there is a REASON of it.
    But the two people discuss their whole life.
    But the grass remains green because....because of!

    Sea of Thieves is designed as PvEvP, no matter how many people discuss about a only PvE Mode.
    Sea of Thieves is green because of the chloroplasts. There is a REASON why its not red.

  • @jollyolsteamed said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @j0sh-bones said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jollyolsteamed said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jollyolsteamed

    What do you mean people have never won a match because they didn't PvP? Oh you mean people that go AFK..

    No i said "people have won WITHOUT doing pvp" by doing the pve objective like digging chests

    Lets not twist words

    Cause if someone gets a chest and wins because they turned in a chest and nobody went after them (its likely two other ships or more were fighting each other in the distance).

    So, because of PvP, players that avoided PvP won.. is what you're saying..

    Yeah? By playing by the PVE objective what is so hard to grasp???

    Is adventure pvp mode because the option to do pvp exists? Nope it is not same applies to arena

    Your goal is to get the most points in a match. And if you ever did the mode, you get way more points in naval combat, than you do if you sail to get the chest.

    Its a PvP mode. Have a good one.

    Its not a pvp mode though but sure keep your delusional understanding of arena

    It died because it wasn't pvp mode

    I dont need to sit here explaining this to you

    Wont have to because you wont listen to the facts

    So arena = condensed PVEPVP mode


    Arena died for the reasons I posted above ^^. Thanks.

    Nope

    thanks for explaining the real functioning of arena to a person with 100% completion who should know how the game mode works.

    I wasn't talking to you though?

    Ooh wait i see nevermind im just stupid xD cheers

    it‘s all good no worries mate

  • @liantherx said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @jollyolsteamed Make sure we care being respectful and not name calling as according to Forum Rules.

    I wasnt name calling im being as respectful as can be however my responses was to someone who did name call

    If i did which i dont remember i humbly apologize keep up the goodwork

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @j0sh-bones

    So you don't want to address points that I raised to you but subtly try to take a personal jab reposting Jolly's reply thread.

    Mmmk.

    Shows what type of community we have here. No honest discussion, just the same lurkers over and over again here.

    Have a good day.

    lurkers

  • Wow!, some people just can't take being told no. You would think that they would be used to it after 3 years.

  • Wow. Nice to see developers putting in the "extra-mile" work like they are doing with this dev podcast.

    It is also very clear that they have no intentions on introducing special PvE servers. Their intention from the beginning was to create a shared adventure and they sure sound like they are sticking to that decision no matter what.

    By the way. I 100% disagree with them. The shared-world aspect of Sea of Thieves is what drags it down in my mind... not the essence of what makes it magical.

    But it still makes me "wonder why" and takes me back to think about why this is such a huge topic?

    Cannot really answer for anyone else than myself.

    I have never ever joined a forum to try to aggitate for a major shift in game design on any game before. The fact I'm still here really tells me that SoT has some major magistical aspect to it that I am sure all of us are aware of.. even though maybe we cannot all pinpoint what it is.

    So I went back to my question. Why do I want PvE servers?

    I mean. I play several other games that are PvP, or PvPvE, and those really do not bother me. SoT does. Why?

    And when I think about it I am quick to realize that the reason I want PvE servers is the fact that I am more frustrated with the PvP experience than enjoying it. I'm not sure why. But usually when I PvP in SoT I feel like I am just meeting people who are IMO toxic. That means name calling and generall badmouthing while I play this game with my sons. But they are also obsessed players that constantly return to try to hunt me down.. even after I sink them 1-2-3 times. Which happens now. Who would have known. With all the great tips from this forum I have become much better at this and manage fine in these skirmishes :)

    Still I really do not log in to be forced to server hop or be in constant skirmishes.

    Why am I still frustrated? The answer is simple:

    • I hate to be forced into PvP-ing when my mind was set on doing something else for this limited time I have to game each night. When I say forced then I mean that if someone is set on PvPing me, as soon as he sees me on the horizon, the game changes to PvP only mode where I either run or attack him. You always have to abond the PvE things you are doing to address any minor PvP stuff that comes up. And that frustrates me.
    • I am the type that quick-saves in single player games every other second... you know just so I wont have to repeat a second of what I was trying to achieve. SoT can be quite harsh in regards to having to "start from scratch". That frustrates me.

    So seeing this podcast was excellent. The devs are really against making PvE servers. Makes me wonder why they are experimenting with Custom Servers though. I for example will be using those constantly when they arrive.

    But. What made me happy about this podcast. They talked about the game being frustrating!!!... they recognize that. They admitted to being looking at how to minimize the frustrating moments and shift them towards extraordinary experience instead.

    And guess what. If they somehow manage to do that without introducing PvE servers then I will be thrilled. That is all that I ask for. I don't want to be frustrated while playing a game. That makes me want to stop playing it. If they somehow remove the frustration then I am all up for it and will "shut-up" about further PvE server requests. What worries me is that I don't think there are many options to make the frustrating PvP aspect of this less frustrating besides introducing PvE servers.

    And they are totally in their right. Like @D3ADST1CK pointed out. The game has amazing reviews everywhere (except metacritic). The Devs have moved the game far forward from launch. To be fair though. I am one of those who gave it 4/5 stars... but would still want PvE servers.

    And like @gunner-rat pointed out.The majority of this thread, me included, (I counted. It's 57%) has to accept the fact that we baught the wrong game.

    I wonder what Rare is going to do to silence the requests for PvE servers once they close this thread in one week. It seems to be (using their own words from the start of this thread) overwhelming numbers of posts about this: "As we continue to see an overwhelming number of posts regarding the PvE versus PvP play styles" Now that they have taken a hard step into this discussion to rule out PvE servers, while still stating they are developing custom servers, I worry that they will continue to get PvE requests from "newbies". Just like they had for the last 6 months of this thread.

    And @gunner-rat. Even though you are right that people baught the wrong game. I also worry that SoT being part of the fast-growing Game-Pass where the game is "kind of free".... we will continue to see new players that "baught" the wrong game and continue to thrive for PvE servers.

    I for one still think they will come... in some form. But like state earlier. If the Devs manage to minimize the frustrating aspect of the game... I am sure this will stop bothering me.

    Side node. My oldest (13yo) has somehow grown into some PvP semi-god in this game. He has millions and bought most of the cosmetics that he wants. He really does not understand why his father doesn't want to fight other people ans he specialices in sinking reapers :D

    It's been a great discussion all. I was late to the game... but kind of sad that it will soon be over.

    But I still wonder. What is the point of a "feedback suggestion" forum... if people are not allowed to place their ideas for what they want?

    Cheers!

  • @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @d3adst1ck said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    1. Proof. Its already been proven with the launch of Arena. Adding a new mode doesn't affect Adventure. Adventure didn't collapse or suffer because of Arena.

    Because there is no overlap. If there is no overlap with a PvE mode, no problem. There is only a problem if you want a PvP-free Adventure clone.

    Thats a big IF. I've seen a lot of PvE threads and posts that are not really asking for a mirror world for PvE. I can agree that whatever the PvE mode would be, it shouldn't be a mirror copy where they get the same rewards as those who risk playing against other pirates.

    I think you're simplyfing the core PvE-person to that one argument. I wouldn't necessarily say that's all of them. Most of them probably left the game cause they don't want to PvP at all. So, they would probably return if they had something to play without PvP.

    I feel like this is an important point that is often handwaved away by a lot of the gatekeepers in this topic [Mod Edited]
    Do some people want a copy and paste? Yes. But the vast majority of people I've seen advocating for pve servers don't. We would like to keep our cosmetics from other modes (you could for the ones you got from arena, so no reason why you couldn't with this as well), but many, including myself, would be more than happy to have a separate mode with separate progression (not NO progression, like custom servers are going to have, mind you).
    Of course, the obvious retort to this is "Buh muh resources! Game can't handle them for minority of players!"
    And again, all one one has to do is point to Arena. It exists, it didn't take anything away from Adventure, and it only died because it wasn't supported by the devs.

  • @silverwing-525 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @d3adst1ck said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    1. Proof. Its already been proven with the launch of Arena. Adding a new mode doesn't affect Adventure. Adventure didn't collapse or suffer because of Arena.

    Because there is no overlap. If there is no overlap with a PvE mode, no problem. There is only a problem if you want a PvP-free Adventure clone.

    Thats a big IF. I've seen a lot of PvE threads and posts that are not really asking for a mirror world for PvE. I can agree that whatever the PvE mode would be, it shouldn't be a mirror copy where they get the same rewards as those who risk playing against other pirates.

    I think you're simplyfing the core PvE-person to that one argument. I wouldn't necessarily say that's all of them. Most of them probably left the game cause they don't want to PvP at all. So, they would probably return if they had something to play without PvP.

    I feel like this is an important point that is often handwaved away by a lot of the gatekeepers in this topic [Mod edited]
    Do some people want a copy and paste? Yes. But the vast majority of people I've seen advocating for pve servers don't. We would like to keep our cosmetics from other modes (you could for the ones you got from arena, so no reason why you couldn't with this as well), but many, including myself, would be more than happy to have a separate mode with separate progression (not NO progression, like custom servers are going to have, mind you).
    Of course, the obvious retort to this is "Buh muh resources! Game can't handle them for minority of players!"
    And again, all one one has to do is point to Arena. It exists, it didn't take anything away from Adventure, and it only died because it wasn't supported by the devs.

    Ooh "Gatekeeper", will this title show up in my vanity chest?

    Sorry but the vast majority of those PVE request threads are exactly asking for the main game without players. The majority of PVEVP players apparently weren't any more thrilled about the arena either and stats prove this, but people didn't moan as much since it didn't take away anything from the main game, no ways to progress in other companies and such on the side.

    Can you level up Sea dogs in adventure? No? Hmm. That bit really seems to elude the people who hammers down "but muh arena". A separate PVE mode where you could do tall tales only, with a separate faction giving separate cosmetics would be great though.

  • @silverwing-525 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @d3adst1ck said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @lord-spark-0 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    1. Proof. Its already been proven with the launch of Arena. Adding a new mode doesn't affect Adventure. Adventure didn't collapse or suffer because of Arena.

    Because there is no overlap. If there is no overlap with a PvE mode, no problem. There is only a problem if you want a PvP-free Adventure clone.

    Thats a big IF. I've seen a lot of PvE threads and posts that are not really asking for a mirror world for PvE. I can agree that whatever the PvE mode would be, it shouldn't be a mirror copy where they get the same rewards as those who risk playing against other pirates.

    I think you're simplyfing the core PvE-person to that one argument. I wouldn't necessarily say that's all of them. Most of them probably left the game cause they don't want to PvP at all. So, they would probably return if they had something to play without PvP.

    I feel like this is an important point that is often handwaved away by a lot of the gatekeepers in this topic [Mod Edited]
    Do some people want a copy and paste? Yes. But the vast majority of people I've seen advocating for pve servers don't. We would like to keep our cosmetics from other modes (you could for the ones you got from arena, so no reason why you couldn't with this as well), but many, including myself, would be more than happy to have a separate mode with separate progression (not NO progression, like custom servers are going to have, mind you).
    Of course, the obvious retort to this is "Buh muh resources! Game can't handle them for minority of players!"
    And again, all one one has to do is point to Arena. It exists, it didn't take anything away from Adventure, and it only died because it wasn't supported by the devs.

    Would a mode where the goal is to fish the most fish in 15 minutes suffice?

    Or the one who sinks most skeleton ships in 15 mins suffice?

    Would a mode that isn't pve adventure mode where you cant do all the things you can do in adventure mode suffice?

  • @silverwing-525

    The people you call out for gatekeeping are the ones that have stated multiple times that a PvE mode that does not conflict and compete directly with the Adventure mode would be possible. Just have a look at the start of the conversation...

    My own initial post: 6 months ago
    @cotu42 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    A PvE server in my opinion should if introduced never compete in the activities and tales that one can experience in the Adventure mode. There is already so little treasure that we fight over, if we offer people an area to achieve their treasure needs, their company reputation grinds and commendations in a PvP free environment... why would anyone collect them in the PvP world? The best fights are those where treasure is on the line, I for one hoard treasure and place it in easy to spot places to entice people to fight me...

    Mister Bil stating the exact same
    @bloodybil said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    Sure, a short separate experience of a few tales with it's own faction and a couple of cosmetic sets, mirroring arena and the sea dogs company would would be the best thing, giving an incentive to play it for everyone.

    Miss Kitty, going way further even allowing Tall Tales, Hunters faction and random bottle quests to be part of it...
    @combatxkitty said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    I think a fair solution would be having a server where you can do Tall Tales on, fish, combat with friends and sail around on. You could do ship wrecks, look for random treasure on islands and I wouldnt even mind skelly captains randomly spawning on those islands. Maybe can even find and do messages in a bottle. I would make this in an invite only type server though not a PvE type where anyone can join. Also I would say a fraction of the gold you would get and either no XP or a small fraction(kinda leaning towards none though). Nothing like voyage work or skull forts could be done, I think its fair to leave the high risk and high reward to the public server like many other games do aswell.

    I think that would be a nice option for days just want to sail around with friends because you could invite multiple friends ideally to this session. Also a good option for people who just want to take a break from seeing others.

    Just my thoughts on a possible option. I know we are getting custom servers soon but still not sure all of what we can do on them.

    Yet... guess what we keep coming back to? The copy paste requests, even when stating the Arena model and agreeing that it would could work...

    Do some people want a copy and paste? Yes. But the vast majority of people I've seen advocating for pve servers don't.

    I don't know what conversation you have been reading, but the vast majority is actually advocating for what you state they don't. They even push back on the idea of not being able to become a pirate legend, do tall tales, etc. That they would have their single new faction, their own cosmetic rewards and new PvE only challenges... received with a big no.

    You can try and paint those defending the PvEvP shared world, Adventure mode in a bad light... but the 151 pages of back and forth with these people are crystal clear on their standpoints. You are an actor in bad faith if you actually read the discussion or have no grasp on the conversation what has been going on... Maybe before you try and call people out on their statements, go read them?

  • @cotu42 Thank you that was well put.

    I think one running theme of this thread has been people barging in without reading any of it and yet passing judgements on those who post here simply because they see them as the enemy for some bizarre reason.

    I as you pointed out have tried to come up with PvE mode ideas but only a couple have ever discussed it with me, showing an interest ,the rest would get angry and demand copy and paste adventure mode and get rude about it. So I too wonder where all these PvE mode not copy paste adventure requesters are here.

    This thread has always been simply a dumping ground for angry gamers mad at Rare for not giving them a PvE version of Sea of Thieves and never was about discussion of play styles or modes anyways . I did meet some cool people here on this thread at least so all is not lost.

  • @zkuggi9579

    My oldest boy is 12 and is a bit of a PvP god too. The game became much easier and less frustrating for us when we began sailing with and learning from other more experienced players.. Our polish PL friend we sailed with early on was a veritabe mine of information..
    I can 100% say the game is so much better when you're on a good crew and the camaraderie and laughs are just the icing on the cake.

    My youngest boy is a whisker away from PL by the way, we'll hopefully get that done for him this weekend all being well if he can stop playing fortnite for an hour or two!

    Give me a shout if you want to get a galley with us sometime.

  • @silverwing-525

    I agree with your viewpoints.

    In general, the people that have added more frustration to this game have been from people that PvP.

    I think, in general, these gatekeepers support these types of people. Because really, this is a culture war.

    PvE people get upset because they had a bad sail. And, although anyone can disagree with their viewpoints, I often see a lot of the same names (for over a year - the people you highlighted) go into these threads and really add nothing but a repeat of the same old lines.

    The PvE players, generally, are much more friendlier in game. They tend to want to cooperate or simply say hello. Sometimes, they do engage in fun combat.

    The PvP players, generally are very aggressive in nature. I get it. But they are typically the people you would find:

    -exploiting the game mechanics (double-gun/quick bucket)
    -Hack the game itself (wall hacks)
    -Spawn camp (kill over and over with no much purpose other than to ruin your day as a player)
    -Have active/passive aggressive attitudes (troll you in-game with their microphones and say offensive things).

    The above isn't to say that PvE players arent all perfect. Certainly, there have been some bad ones. But in my experience 3+ years on the forum, reddit, and in-game (the most important), I would rather see their viewpoints more.

    I'd rather see a separate game mode for PvE made for these people. Something with solo-coop capabilities.

    That being said, its ironic that I was being lectured recently that Arena is not a PvP mode when it literally disables 99% of what is PvE in Adventure mode:

    -Events.
    -Voyages.
    -Skeletons spawning
    -Emergent loot
    -Emissaries

    The list goes on. So for them to say its a 'condensed version of adventure' is not correct in anyway. The chest designed in Arena is literally made for players to know where it is at all times and fight for it.


    Its interesting that some of those you highlighted took personal offence and unsurprisingly have their little pep talk with eachother (meanwhile complaining that the thread is no longer about PvE v PvP discussions and they should close it - meanwhile they are doing exactly what they are complaining about).

    They tend to tag/reply just to troll but not engage in discussion. One of these people even had Rare mod-edit their posts recently cause they get out of line.

    The best thing we can do is ignore/block them.

  • @lord-spark-0
    I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that believes these things. Not the only one advocating for something that could benefit everyone, "vision" notwithstanding. Then again.. When I think about it, you aren't the first to say something like this. There's been plenty of others. I guess it just feels kinda lonely when it's mostly one or two of us coming in at a time to support points like these.

    As for those people gatekeeping.. Well, we COULD just block them, but honestly, that wouldn't make us any better. A discussion is what's wanted and you can't have a discussion if one side is missing. Besides.. it's not like it would stop them from replying or ganging up on everyone who hadn't figured them out as soon as they come in.
    Not to mention the fact that the devs seem to think that they represent the majority of players, seemingly based entirely on the number of replies rather than the number of people making them. Vocal minority and all that. Even with the person who took the time to actually read through everything and make a list of detailed statistics regarding this topic showing that it's mostly one particular, smaller group of dedicated users advocating for no change or compromise.

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