@jadedragon00 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
It was a pretty pessimistic and condescending podcast, with a lot of nothing being said, and more of that vague communication in the guise of "See we addressed it". Not sure why you bother to call it nuanced since all 6 of you in the podcast danced around the issue and did not even have the courtesy to address the crux of many players concerns in a direct way. Joe Neate could not even be bothered to just directly say (and instead chose to dance around it like it was a taboo word), that the PVP interactions were the source of Frustration, and instead painted it as some grand philosophical issue of game design like he was painting a Picasso, instead of just showing respect and doubling down and just saying we dont care that people are frustrated with aggressive players. He tried to spin it in that patronizing PR mannerism that he is known for, that frankly many of us are sick of hearing.
Hi Jade,
In some ways I actually agree with you and think they should outright say what they truly feel, but in their defence though, I think we both understand that as a corporate entity, that would be considered bad business protocol and if we were to all speak our minds truly then we probably would be very unpopular and have zero mates like me lol.
So they do have to dress it up somewhat. But rest assured I am with you (and we probably exist within a small minority of people) who prefer to hear the honest to God truth no matter how brutal and painful.
That all said, if we bare the above notion in mind of PR, the power of cancel culture etc. I think it is crystal clear that they have no intention of ever having a PvE only mode with progression. And I think they make it crystal clear that the PvP aspect is intrinsic to the overall experience and will also not be watered down or removed in any way. I'm not going to condescend you by quoting them directly, because you have clearly just watched the podcast anyway.
You even had the gall to make the statement that somehow the solution was not simple (when it clearly is, just because you dont want to make that decision, is not the same of it not being simple), then followed up with what I can only perceive as a Blanket threat to anyone who uses the Alliance System. I dont know what the heck you consider "not using the Tool properly" in a game where you have spent the better part of 3 years touting "Tools Not Rules". Well which is it? Are you placing Rules, on the tools, or not? Tools that I remind you people asked for, you provided. Lets not stand on ceremony and pretend that you all were ignorant enough to think it would not be used to achieve what you continuously refuse to implement.
Otherwise, it was just Lots of Repetition on statements that have already been said for 3 years, but with respect, if those statements were enough to quell parts of the community, many of us would not be here.
I'm not so sure on this bit mate. Humans are extremely persistent beings and have been known to continue doing things that are detrimental to themselves in mere hope. The statements are consistent with older ones for sure, but if they haven't quelled some of the player base, then respectfully, that is an issue for those players to come to terms with.
If I have to hear, "Core Vision" one more time, I think I will vomit into a bucket, and wait for the next DDoS attack.
Hehe ok I won't say it, but SWAG was a bit cheesy too. Was the site down due to a ddos attack?
As for you all playing both sides of the Camping, and Repetitive attack loop topic that you spent the better part of 5 minutes on with the unclear position on whether it was a problem or not (which it is), that too me just proves you are aware of the issues that have been addressed, but based on your condescending remark during the podcast in its wake Joe, its clear that some of you are just as much responsible for perpetuating a problem, and hiding it under the guise of "Those shared world experiences" Just because you "address" that something is a problem" but then laugh it off as some sort of "Meaningful Experience" that makes it all worth while despite in the same vein trying to acknowledge its a problem. All that does is legitimize the behavior. Makes you hypocrites in my eyes.
Finally, as for your "Empty Hope" on two instances where you acted like, "things in the future could change", or ,"we could incorporate it later" is asanine if you wont follow through. Frankly I would have had far more respect if you had just directly said, "No this will never happen", instead of being the patronizing fools giving false hope, simply because your trying to silence a conversation that has been had for 3 plus years. Instead you were patronizing, condescending, narrow minded, and in one instance threatening, to an entire section of the community.
But by all means, view this podcast discussion as "Nuanced" all you like. What a joke. A one sided conversation with empty promises, and glorification to sate your own ego's is hardly "addressing" the discussion.
I definitely understand where you are coming from here, but sometimes we need to take this Kierkegaardian leap of faith and either come to terms that what they are saying right now and implementing is how it is going to be - or continue to torture yourself with "what ifs".
I get that you don't like some aspects of their apparent ambiguity that you mention when you write "Finally, as for your "Empty Hope" on two instances where you acted like, "things in the future could change", or ,"we could incorporate it later" is asanine if you wont follow through", but to me what they are saying is "we don't see PvP as a problem and that will never change" although it seems they want to do something about spawn killing.
But sometimes (take this as you will), we can spend lots of time worrying over the future, be it surrounding life in general or a game we love - but it is ultimately a futile and absurd emotion, purely because we do not even know what will happen tomorrow, let alone in the general future. Who knows, perhaps in years to come, or the coming months they might do something about spawnkilling. Who knows, tomorrow they might appoint a new producer and he might turn the game into PvE only in totality lol. Who knows, tomorrow an asteroid might get past the giant vacuum cleaner of space aka Jupiter and smash into the Earth causing a mass extinction event. This is unlikely, of course, but we are generally terrible at predicting the future and I suspect the devs are not immune to that entirely.
We cannot really punish them for things they may or may not do like some kind of thought crime utopia, we can either give them the benefit of the doubt, or uninstall and invest time elsewhere. I think it is good that they discussed it and like the guy said at the start, if it weren't for the sake of brevity - the entire podcast could easily have taken up a couple of hours.
So while I can empathise with you - if they were to just come right out and say it - people would call them rude and inconsiderate, so in that regard, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't and do deserve a bit of slack for taking the time out to make the podcast.
Cheers