[Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion

  • @jonahgrimm sagte in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    IMO - If you engage in only one aspect of the game, you are not playing it as intended. PVP server hoppers looking for people to fight are just as to blame as PVErs who hop looking for peaceful sailing experiences. PVPVE is exactly the point. To the point -that PVPers saying "You shouldn't be allowed to run so that I have better fights" are just as problematic as the PVEr saying "I should never have to fight."

    fully agree and i say so for years!
    But we have the extreme players who stubbornly say i play like i want and all this.
    Like i still try to roleplay a CS Match, but nobody hear me :D

    I would suggest that any 'fix' should be directed at two simple concepts:

    • When you sink a PVEr, they shouldn't lose everything. Mechanically, the game already tracks whether you were the first person to touch loot or not; why not give half the value to the fellow who touched it first, as long as they're on the same server as when it's sold? This solves two problems: the PVE player doesn't leave the server emptyhanded after a bad experience, and the world-event-doer has incentive to at least get it done, as the loot has significant value.

    The problem is, the pure PvPers will sink you and spawnkill you until you quit your session and if not he wont sell your loot, because he knows you still get rewarded.
    See the serious exagerating PvPer dont want you to get anything, but teach you a lesson!
    I call this attitude already toxic, but i'm oldsql and i have outdated moral values for playing videogames in 2020.
    If Rare disallows serverhopping, these playstyles cannot exist and just vanish.
    All playstyles, also the grinders in adventure who discard journeys to get only this or that kind of journey and all who hop servers to tweak their session and have control over things that arent meant to be under players control and therefore are random - e.g.active event, athena missions, merchant missions etc... - would be not possible anymore.
    Rare fears the players raging about that, but it is what makes people not playing a pirate adventure, but game the system.
    And all the regular playing PvEvP Pirate Adventurers suffer from it this or that way.
    They meet less friendly and trustworthy cooperators, because they aren't in the pool, they meet more often than it should be overly aggressive pirates who just want to "ruin your day" and make you quit the session or to play the game for today or even forever.

    I dont have problems with the events like they are, its group content and you can see ships aproaching and stop doing the PvE event and prepare to defend it.
    In year one it was the most fun to defend forts against agressors for me and my crew and we were mostly successfull and we were always sad when nobody was coming for us. We fought of multiple ships at once.
    Events attract PvP.
    Everybody should know that, when he starts one.
    I'm fine with it.

    Reminder: There is absolutely no way to practice effectively in adventure mode. If you're a PVPer and you're up against a new player, or even someone who isn't who just hasn't had many encounters? You are not making their day more fun. They have zero incentive to fight you - you brought no treasure, you're better supplied, have better skills, and their experience is akin to a kitten getting mauled by a steamroller. OF COURSE they're not going to be happy with that! How is that fun?

    "Git good" doesn't make up for the frustration of the loss - so lessen the frustration of the loss, and I suspect you'll lessen calls for the losses to be removed entirely.

    Good point. Arena was the biggest mistake Rare could ever have done. I still think Microsoft is to blame here and they forced it because of money and we all know Arena is not made by Rare or the core SoT Team, but from another studio afaik.

    they gave these emapthless PvPers a tool to find out all the glitches and actually practicing to shoot in quick succession etc. and DGE and even more bad exploits.

    I cant say other but I HATE ARENA!
    I'm a sandbox PvPer, but still i also play online PvP Arena FPS games.
    But SoT Arena is.... ok this would be go to far.
    It opened up for tons of problems and mainly for that PvE versus PvP split!

  • @bloodybil I'm signed in to a different account, I didn't get the option to sign in as my regular account. Cheers for the input buddy.

  • @ajm123 Re: this:

    @stundorn refusing to pvp is the issue. Your refusing to play the game. I get it you want pve servers but man I truly think it's lack of xp of combat. Granted on occasion I'll troll with fotd key and leave it somewhere in the shores of gold but i still wouldn't throw it away.

    No, what you're actually saying is "Refusing to PVP the way I want is the issue".

    This game is about, at the end of the day, who gets the booty.

    If I choose to run from you and sell piecemeal to outposts as I go by?

    Valid playstyle.

    If I choose to, out of spite, run off into the red and sink my ship?

    Valid playstyle.

    If I choose to turn and engage you?

    Valid playstyle.

    This is a sandbox with tools - and if I get enjoyment from making the frothy pirate who desperately wants to board my ship and stab me in the face wait three hours to do so because they're not good enough to catch me, and I sell all my loot in the bargain? That's a win for me.

    Every time I see this argument, I wonder how it is that anyone gets to dictate how another player chooses to engage with the tools they're given. You are not guaranteed a fight. I don't have to take you on. You're in the same sandbox - want to take my stuff, when I'm in the mood to mess with you? Bring it.

    you've decided you want to chase me for hours - you don't have to. Go find somebody else to bother if I'm having fun my way and it doesn't sync up with yours.

  • @sfp-the-hulk said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    And for anyone who wants to say oh but it's a PVP game there's an ally system there is absolutely no reason for you to steal a loot from other people it is completely rude and should be a bannable offense

    Maybe you missed that the game is called, wait for it....SEA OF THIEVES. Thievery is literally the point of the game and is right there in the title and game description. It is not rude, it is called PLAYING THE GAME.

  • @theargonaut144 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @BloodyBil To claim other people's attitude is the problem is a bit of a self-own, as it could be argued that your attitude to the problem is also part of the problem. Savvy?

    Somehow I doubt that taking a game light-heartedly and showing good sportsmanship in both victory and defeat is part of the problem. I am not too worried about my own attitude ;)

    I understand and accept the product I bought, as it was always presented and advertised. Do you?

  • @troubled-cells said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    NO RISK....

    NO REWARD

    Simple

    PvE advocates can happily go play in the custom servers when they become available to the public.

    Otherwise it's just undermining and subverting the games risk reward premise.

    This is a somewhat ironic statement, since a major problem with Adventure mode is the Risk/Reward paradigm is backwards. Aggressive players have no risk with lots of potential rewards. PvE players have all the risk, with no additional reward beyond what they already have.

  • @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    NO RISK....

    NO REWARD

    Simple

    PvE advocates can happily go play in the custom servers when they become available to the public.

    Otherwise it's just undermining and subverting the games risk reward premise.

    This is a somewhat ironic statement, since a major problem with Adventure mode is the Risk/Reward paradigm is backwards. Aggressive players have no risk with lots of potential rewards. PvE players have all the risk, with no additional reward beyond what they already have.

    Thats not entirely true. I know my crew doesn't cash out till we are done wiping a server. The amount of loot continues to stack up.

    For the server hoppers, it usually means going in hot and heavy, light on supplies. PvErs that have been on a server should be supplied well. They should use this supply advantage to fight back.

  • @captain-coel said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    NO RISK....

    NO REWARD

    Simple

    PvE advocates can happily go play in the custom servers when they become available to the public.

    Otherwise it's just undermining and subverting the games risk reward premise.

    This is a somewhat ironic statement, since a major problem with Adventure mode is the Risk/Reward paradigm is backwards. Aggressive players have no risk with lots of potential rewards. PvE players have all the risk, with no additional reward beyond what they already have.

    Thats not entirely true. I know my crew doesn't cash out till we are done wiping a server. The amount of loot continues to stack up.

    For the server hoppers, it usually means going in hot and heavy, light on supplies. PvErs that have been on a server should be supplied well. They should use this supply advantage to fight back.

    ... Ok, so you're crew on the first attack? How much loot is on board then? The server hoppers that go in hot and heavy don't lose to attrition, because they get a fresh respawn with supplies, and they can just keep throwing their body at you.

    A good example is the following: Early on in my "career" we were doing an order of souls ghost fleet voyage. PvP crew shows up, but we fought them off. They did it again, we fought them off again. After the THIRD time they were sunk, they managed to get us, and take the loot we had collected.

    They had no risk in the entire fight, and they were able to just come back until they won. That is the imbalance. I appreciate that you don't sell out until the end, it's nice - but it's also not the norm.

    Edit: To answer the point of the thread, I'm not opposed to PvE servers and I would use them if they existed. But I'm also not calling for them and Rare could solve some of the issues by flipping the risk/reward element to be in favor of the PvE player instead of the PvP player.

  • Again if you pve well by 10 mil km you should have everything in the game.

    So I ask this why not learn how to pvp? And learn the risk and reward aspect doesn't matter. By refusing to fight your only hurting yourself long term. You will own everything in the game and not know combat. Except the few hundred skeleton ships you sunk.

    To me the argument is crazy.

    Also I make lfg everyday. If you wanna join msg me saying you seen this post I'll invite who ever. I will show you nothing is scary about fighting and losing loot because at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

  • @ajm123 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    Again if you pve well by 10 mil km you should have everything in the game.

    So I ask this why not learn how to pvp? And learn the risk and reward aspect doesn't matter. By refusing to fight your only hurting yourself long term. You will own everything in the game and not know combat. Except the few hundred skeleton ships you sunk.

    To me the argument is crazy.

    Just because you don't understand what they enjoy doesn't mean they don't enjoy it, or that they are crazy.

    I don't mind opportunistic PvP most of the time. My wife hates it, but enjoys sailing around collecting treasure. Sometimes we just want a chill evening together to go around and collect loot because collecting loot is fun. If the risk / reward paradigm were flipped, it would be a lot more tolerable to lose a fight and you'd see more people in the early stages of pirating stick it out to later stages, resulting in more people doing PvE for other people to steal.

  • @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    NO RISK....

    NO REWARD

    Simple

    PvE advocates can happily go play in the custom servers when they become available to the public.

    Otherwise it's just undermining and subverting the games risk reward premise.

    This is a somewhat ironic statement, since a major problem with Adventure mode is the Risk/Reward paradigm is backwards. Aggressive players have no risk with lots of potential rewards. PvE players have all the risk, with no additional reward beyond what they already have.

    alt text

    Not ironic at all.

    Unless you are suggesting that aggressive players have never lost loot?

  • @cptphteven

    ... Ok, so you're crew on the first attack? How much loot is on board then? The server hoppers that go in hot and heavy don't lose to attrition, because they get a fresh respawn with supplies, and they can just keep throwing their body at you.

    Plenty of crews will offload their loot before attacking someone, its just smart playing. Some crews just have better risk management then you. While certainly fresh spawn boats get a new round of supplies, its hardly anything to actually accomplish a successful attack. They get 15 planks, that isn't enough to survive one good volley. If you are loosing to this supposed "Attrition," you are doing something wrong on your end. See below for that explanation.

    A good example is the following: Early on in my "career" we were doing an order of souls ghost fleet voyage. PvP crew shows up, but we fought them off. They did it again, we fought them off again. After the THIRD time they were sunk, they managed to get us, and take the loot we had collected.

    Whose fault is this? Why not just stop taking the fleet and go resupply? Nothing forces you in this game to just stay til completion. You could have quite easily just sailed to an outpost to grab more supplies, yet you didn't. Your refusal to adapt led to your own demise, the fault can't be blamed on anyone else. There is also this notion of you taking forever to complete the tasks. the fact that they can return so many times implies how slow you are in completing tasks. Ghost fleets don't take long. It also feels like you are somewhat making up excuses, the Ghost Fleets also reward you with supplies as well, you should be getting a net positive on supplies if you are doing it right.

    There is this stupid notion of players claiming hoppers have no risk, but they don't take into effect that by hopping those crews hobble themselves in ways that ensure they have a high chance of failure. They literally attack fully stocked ships with little to no supplies. They also lack any of the game-changing supplies that includes, Curses, Chain-shots, Blundies, Fire, and the extremely deadly Wraithballs. If you or anyone are sinking to ships with no supplies, it doesn't matter if they hopped or not. You would have sank regardless to their hopping status.

    This isn't me flexing, but I can honestly state that its been ages since I've sunk to ships with fresh spawn supplies. They simply lack the power to survive any form of counter-attack.

  • Poppycock!

    You’ll lose the magic if you change what the game is now.

  • @troubled-cells
    Unless you are suggesting that aggressive players have never lost loot?

    Of course not.

    BUT. Consider a FOTD. Getting one ready to go (prior to current events - or.. maybe even with current events) takes significant work. You've got to die six different ways, some easier than others, and track down a ritual skull (easier these days, true). Let's say that takes you.. oh, an hour and a half, and you didn't lose all your lights when you're doing the pink lantern.

    Then, you go to the fort and kick it off.

    What's your investment? Six lights, an hour and a half, a skull - and you've kicked off a world event. Good!

    Except that's what all the server hoppers are looking for. With zero effort, as soon as they see that fort skull, they load up on their boat, grabbing supplies as they run to you, and engage. ,You're at a disadvantage - half your crew is fighting the Bad Guy, and if you lose your boat, you lose your close respawn and all the supplies you've accumulated. Aaand.. if you leave? The other crew gets your fort - which may, depending on where you are, give tham an easy run at it.

    That event is stacked for the aggressor.

    Now.

    If server hoppers played the PVPVE game? They'd be doing their thing - and if a fort spawned on their server, they'd have the option of heading for it. If it's a full server, five other ships (potentially) have this decision to make. Maybe one or two are interested most of the time, maybe zero. You've got the inherent risk, but no guarantee of that fight, and a fairly decent chance of fighting someone off who isn't a permanent PVP hound (likely of higher skill and capability).

    That's what we're talking about - the balance of events, and even just the basic gameplay, is tilted toward those that put in zero effort to trigger that gameplay, and often show up with nothing to lose - as they should. You SHOULD sell before you go aggressor on a FOTD.

    However, it doesn't change the fundamental question: why should I trigger a fort if I am not good enough to fend off the hoppers.

    that's all it is - it's not about who's right and wrong - it's about the decision tree. If all of those hoppers spoiling for the fight worked to trigger the event themselves, it'd all even out in the end - but that isn't fun for them. What is fun is beating up other people for that reward when they have an intrinsic advantage.

    Again, nothing wrong with that - if they'd ever take the back foot themselves. But - ask yourself: how often does a streamer choose to activate the fort over bouncing around until they find one?

    That's where I think things aren't quite right: I have no problem with PVP, but the game also has a PVE element, and to say that folks that do nothing but PVP aren't playing the game as intended is quite accurate. They risk less for that reward, choosing positions of advantage rather than ever taking on that back foot themselves.

    Getting on a server, doing pirate things, and shooting ships as you find them? That's how it's structured: everyone has something to lose, and it's always a game of risk.

  • @nabberwar How dare others manage risk vs reward while I go 6 hours straight without selling, right?

    Don't hoard more than you can bare losing guys, it's that simple.

  • @jonahgrimm but if your not good enough to fend off people why not start small at the regular fort. OR Davey Jones forbid learn how to fight back.

    This is a issue of not wanting to rather then try.

    This is the worst thread I've ever read I'm done. this argument is crazy

  • @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @captain-coel said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @troubled-cells said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    NO RISK....

    NO REWARD

    Simple

    PvE advocates can happily go play in the custom servers when they become available to the public.

    Otherwise it's just undermining and subverting the games risk reward premise.

    This is a somewhat ironic statement, since a major problem with Adventure mode is the Risk/Reward paradigm is backwards. Aggressive players have no risk with lots of potential rewards. PvE players have all the risk, with no additional reward beyond what they already have.

    Thats not entirely true. I know my crew doesn't cash out till we are done wiping a server. The amount of loot continues to stack up.

    For the server hoppers, it usually means going in hot and heavy, light on supplies. PvErs that have been on a server should be supplied well. They should use this supply advantage to fight back.

    ... Ok, so you're crew on the first attack? How much loot is on board then? The server hoppers that go in hot and heavy don't lose to attrition, because they get a fresh respawn with supplies, and they can just keep throwing their body at you.

    A good example is the following: Early on in my "career" we were doing an order of souls ghost fleet voyage. PvP crew shows up, but we fought them off. They did it again, we fought them off again. After the THIRD time they were sunk, they managed to get us, and take the loot we had collected.

    They had no risk in the entire fight, and they were able to just come back until they won. That is the imbalance. I appreciate that you don't sell out until the end, it's nice - but it's also not the norm.

    Edit: To answer the point of the thread, I'm not opposed to PvE servers and I would use them if they existed. But I'm also not calling for them and Rare could solve some of the issues by flipping the risk/reward element to be in favor of the PvE player instead of the PvP player.

    But you knew they would keep coming back. Why not bail out and sell real quick and go back to your voyage? If you have more loot on your boat than you are comfortable selling, go sell.

  • @jonahgrimm FotD is the worst example mate. That giant in the cloud is intended to attract people. How do you tell the difference between a new boat on the server and someone server hopping?

  • Well, as other have said, it's largely new players or solo sloopers that ask for a dedicated PvE mode. When I'm solo slooping, whether for commendations or tall tales, I'm usually not trying to PvP.

    That said, I think it's an integral part of the game in all scenarios. The real solution here is to give an actual mechanic for what many of us end up doing over voice comms: surrender. "You can have my loot and load up your pockets with supplies, but please don't sink me because I'm just trying to get through this."

    Adding a white "surrender" flag to the same menu as the alliance flag options seems to solve the issue, in my estimation. I do think, for the sake of balance, that that option should include losing/surrendering any emissary flag you might have as well.

  • @jonahgrimm If a ship is keeping a lookout while doing FOTD, then they can see ships coming from miles away, whilst being shrouded by the fog.
    Any ships coming to challenge them run the risk of sailing into a broadside.
    Tuccing players only have one life, and no support from their ship, and largely rely on you being dumb enough to leave kegs lying around, or worse still, bring them onboard with out checking for tuccers first.
    Nevermind all the extra planks and cannon balls and tasty fruit just sitting around in barrels.
    The defending ship has the advantage over the attacking ship at FOTD, and if some crews can't complete it, that's not an issue with the event, that's an issue with the competence of crews.

  • @jonahgrimm said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @troubled-cells
    Unless you are suggesting that aggressive players have never lost loot?

    Of course not.

    BUT. Consider a FOTD. Getting one ready to go (prior to current events - or.. maybe even with current events) takes significant work. You've got to die six different ways, some easier than others, and track down a ritual skull (easier these days, true). Let's say that takes you.. oh, an hour and a half, and you didn't lose all your lights when you're doing the pink lantern.

    Then, you go to the fort and kick it off.

    What's your investment? Six lights, an hour and a half, a skull - and you've kicked off a world event. Good!

    Except that's what all the server hoppers are looking for. With zero effort, as soon as they see that fort skull, they load up on their boat, grabbing supplies as they run to you, and engage. ,You're at a disadvantage - half your crew is fighting the Bad Guy, and if you lose your boat, you lose your close respawn and all the supplies you've accumulated. Aaand.. if you leave? The other crew gets your fort - which may, depending on where you are, give tham an easy run at it.

    That event is stacked for the aggressor.

    Now.

    If server hoppers played the PVPVE game? They'd be doing their thing - and if a fort spawned on their server, they'd have the option of heading for it. If it's a full server, five other ships (potentially) have this decision to make. Maybe one or two are interested most of the time, maybe zero. You've got the inherent risk, but no guarantee of that fight, and a fairly decent chance of fighting someone off who isn't a permanent PVP hound (likely of higher skill and capability).

    That's what we're talking about - the balance of events, and even just the basic gameplay, is tilted toward those that put in zero effort to trigger that gameplay, and often show up with nothing to lose - as they should. You SHOULD sell before you go aggressor on a FOTD.

    However, it doesn't change the fundamental question: why should I trigger a fort if I am not good enough to fend off the hoppers.

    that's all it is - it's not about who's right and wrong - it's about the decision tree. If all of those hoppers spoiling for the fight worked to trigger the event themselves, it'd all even out in the end - but that isn't fun for them. What is fun is beating up other people for that reward when they have an intrinsic advantage.

    Again, nothing wrong with that - if they'd ever take the back foot themselves. But - ask yourself: how often does a streamer choose to activate the fort over bouncing around until they find one?

    That's where I think things aren't quite right: I have no problem with PVP, but the game also has a PVE element, and to say that folks that do nothing but PVP aren't playing the game as intended is quite accurate. They risk less for that reward, choosing positions of advantage rather than ever taking on that back foot themselves.

    Getting on a server, doing pirate things, and shooting ships as you find them? That's how it's structured: everyone has something to lose, and it's always a game of risk.

    So then if that's not what you were suggesting or implying, your initial response is incorrect.

    I disagree with FOTD taking lots of work to start, some work?absolutely, but with a little research you can get everything you need pretty quickly.

    Server hoppers arent every single aggressor in the game, semantics buddy, 2 totally different things.

    Just seems like you are grasping at straws a little here.

  • I don't understand why so many posters response to newish players quitting the game because they don't enjoy being dumpstered is "get gud scrub".

  • @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    I don't understand why so many posters response to newish players quitting the game because they don't enjoy being dumpstered is "get gud scrub".

    I don't understand why so many newish player ask for the game to be turned upside down because they refuse to make the effort to learn it?

  • People want what they can’t have. It’s human nature. Often “wanting” something is far better than actually getting it.

    I love SOT’s. I really do and I don’t want to bash it or speak of it disparagingly but reality is...

    As a “PVE” game...well let’s be honest. It sucks. It’s for babies. All you do is kill skeletons over and over and over and over....and over.

    If you made PVE servers no one would play them. Sure they would be popular for a week...then the feeling of emptiness, loneliness, boredom, monotonous would set in.

    Any feeling of accomplishment or achievement would be null.

    The bad PVE “works” because of the constant threat of other players and the “unknown”.

    On its own merit it’s just really bad, little kid baby PVE.

    The PVE in Disney Infinity was better than this. Hell the PVE in Club Penguin was better!

    I think many of you will realize just how bad the PVE is if/when the PVP was removed.

    But together, together it is “magic”. It’s what makes the game special and unique.

    No one likes to get the arss whooped! We can all agree on that but man...when you whoop someone else’s arss or just barely escape?

    When that Galleon that’s been chasing you for 30 minutes is about to wreck you and all hope is lost and your down to 3 planks and you see it get Krakened?

    I wouldn’t trade that for anything!

  • I think there should be PvE Servers and PvPvE Servers.

    Here is the basic argument of both sides:

    PvE Player: I want to sail with my friends or solo, enjoy the view, do some quests/tall tales, discover some lore, look for Easter eggs, and do a bit of treasure hunting in peace.

    PvP Player: I want to find the above players, kill them, and steal all of their stuff.

    They are both fun and they both have a place. I don't understand why we can't have both.

    Just make the PvP Servers more rewarding than the PvE Servers by reducing the turn in value on PvE Servers by 50%. If it kills the PvPvE Servers, reduce the value by an additional X%, then take a look at the data. If there isn't an even split between servers/players, reduce it again by X%. At some point you will find that magic number where people are willing to "risk it" on a PvPvE server for the much greater earning potential. Hover around that number and you'll be able to retain both the PvE Player and the PvPvE Player and grow the player base organically.

  • @bloodybil I'm not against pvp, I want a server where my gf and I can play in peace without the looming threat of another crew stealing it all, she isn't bad at the game, she can shoot cannons and repair and steer, ya know all the basics but she physically can't pvp she doesn't have the reaction time to do so, she can't even fight skeletons, and I don't want to rely on a chance an alliance server is open for us to play, honestly if there was a game like sot that had no pvp and good multiplayer we'd be playing that

    For example today we got her first fort done just to be suck and killed at port trying to sell the stuff, we got nothing but the experience of the vault

  • @ajm123 sagte in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @stundorn refusing to pvp is the issue. Your refusing to play the game. I get it you want pve servers but man I truly think it's lack of xp of combat. Granted on occasion I'll troll with fotd key and leave it somewhere in the shores of gold but i still wouldn't throw it away.
    If your gonna run away and go off the map because "I'm not good enough to beat them and it's toxic because they wanna steal my loot." just realize when the game was made they in no way shape or form imo intended for you to do that.

    By the time you hit around 10 mil meters you more then likely should own everything in the game?

    Right or wrong?

    So what is wrong with losing loot who cares.

    Learn to fight. "it's not about the gold its about the glory"

    Be More pirate

    And to be clear i don't care if you run. Deadwind is beatable.
    I could go on and on about this but I wont. I'll just tell you I make lfgs all the time. I'll invite the noobiest of noobs. Show them how to do a rowboat play. And they will just tell me that they never seen that before and it was the most fun they ever.

    It's rude to say wrong about others and assume i want pve servers or are bad and dont pvp.
    I'll block you because of that as you still havent read what i wrote and assume wrong things about me.
    You are a liar. Simple as that.

  • @stundorn call me a liar just paraphrasing what your saying

    Also I apologize if your offended we all have strong points of views here which is fine but I personally don't think I lied after going over your statements several times

  • @jonahgrimm

    If you cannot understand what i wrote and assume wrong things about me and what i wrote, please stop beeing rude and lying, thanks

  • PvP and PvE playstyles are both viable and can be achieved by using the tools in the game. I have played both styles and though the longer I play the more I pull towards the PvP end of the game the PvE style is viable and safe. I am more than capable of soloing Athena Voyages and have never lost a single Athena chest in the process and it isn't because nobody ever shows up. It is also not that I have never been sunk or destroyed by a team when I was doing PvE mistakes are made, wrong choices are done and sometimes you lose, that too is part of the game. The seas award those that pay attention, make the proper decisions and execute their plans to achieve the goals they set out to do. It requires players to learn, adapt and be good at the game.

    There are many complaints about it because the people that want to play the PvE end have unreasonable expectations or are not using the tools provided properly. Most people expect that they should be able to go out on a voyage and be at that island they want to be without ever needing to leave it until they finished and this is unreasonable. If another crew is heading towards you, you might need to reposition, avoid, adapt or even setup to battle. We also have many people complain about cloud events (world events) that they weren't able to do in peace, while the whole idea of the big cloud, beam etc. is to attract unwanted attention of other crews. Just because one wants to PVE does not mean they should expect to be uncontested. In the same manner that a Kraken, Megalodon or Skeleton ship can come and interrupt your plans a pirate crew can.

    The sea of thieves is able to support both the PvP and PvE playstyles very efficiently due to its nature of the open seas and either side being able to have ample time to respond to each other. There is no true manner to avoid being spotted upon the waves if the other crew is aware of the situation and due to the sailing mechanics one can evade the other for as long as they want if they execute it well.

    The most fun is had in the Adventure mode when people are out collecting treasure and have something to fight over. The cloud events are by far the most enjoyable content in the game where it secures an area that players want to fight over for the treasure to be had there. Sadly with the frequency that they are up, they are soon after the introduction usually uncontested. In my opinion the adjustments that were made to make these events and activity more accessible without consistent fights have made the game more about roaming the seas for a fight than knowing where to find it. This in turn makes the demands on a PvE crew more stressful, as the PvP crews are no longer focused on a specific area of the world.

    Additionally one of the main reasons why I personally am more focused upon the PvP out there is because the PvE has become less and less challenging over time. It pushed people that seek out challenges to focus on other players, as they are the only ones that can offer the challenge. The whole scaling aspect of the game ruined many of the previous enjoyments I had where as a solo it was significantly more difficult than with a crew.

    A PvE server in my opinion should if introduced never compete in the activities and tales that one can experience in the Adventure mode. There is already so little treasure that we fight over, if we offer people an area to achieve their treasure needs, their company reputation grinds and commendations in a PvP free environment... why would anyone collect them in the PvP world? The best fights are those where treasure is on the line, I for one hoard treasure and place it in easy to spot places to entice people to fight me...

  • @dhg-alow2235 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @bloodybil I'm not against pvp, I want a server where my gf and I can play in peace without the looming threat of another crew stealing it all, she isn't bad at the game, she can shoot cannons and repair and steer, ya know all the basics but she physically can't pvp she doesn't have the reaction time to do so, she can't even fight skeletons, and I don't want to rely on a chance an alliance server is open for us to play, honestly if there was a game like sot that had no pvp and good multiplayer we'd be playing that

    For example today we got her first fort done just to be suck and killed at port trying to sell the stuff, we got nothing but the experience of the vault

    I often brig with a buddy and his girlfriend and she is essentially the same. It can be a roll of the dice but we manage to still enjoy the experience whatever the outcome of the session.

    Custom servers will provide what you seek, a server where you can play in peace without looming threats.

  • @xpvtx said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    I think there should be PvE Servers and PvPvE Servers.

    Here is the basic argument of both sides:

    PvE Player: I want to sail with my friends or solo, enjoy the view, do some quests/tall tales, discover some lore, look for Easter eggs, and do a bit of treasure hunting in peace.

    PvP Player: I want to find the above players, kill them, and steal all of their stuff.

    They are both fun and they both have a place. I don't understand why we can't have both.

    Just make the PvP Servers more rewarding than the PvE Servers by reducing the turn in value on PvE Servers by 50%. If it kills the PvPvE Servers, reduce the value by an additional X%, then take a look at the data. If there isn't an even split between servers/players, reduce it again by X%. At some point you will find that magic number where people are willing to "risk it" on a PvPvE server for the much greater earning potential. Hover around that number and you'll be able to retain both the PvE Player and the PvPvE Player and grow the player base organically.

    I think the "no progression" aspect of the custom servers will be perfectly fair already personally. If anything, a small % of gold, and no rep or commendations whatsoever, no need to trial and error until the game population balance is already spoiled.

  • @bloodybil said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @xpvtx said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    I think there should be PvE Servers and PvPvE Servers.

    Here is the basic argument of both sides:

    PvE Player: I want to sail with my friends or solo, enjoy the view, do some quests/tall tales, discover some lore, look for Easter eggs, and do a bit of treasure hunting in peace.

    PvP Player: I want to find the above players, kill them, and steal all of their stuff.

    They are both fun and they both have a place. I don't understand why we can't have both.

    Just make the PvP Servers more rewarding than the PvE Servers by reducing the turn in value on PvE Servers by 50%. If it kills the PvPvE Servers, reduce the value by an additional X%, then take a look at the data. If there isn't an even split between servers/players, reduce it again by X%. At some point you will find that magic number where people are willing to "risk it" on a PvPvE server for the much greater earning potential. Hover around that number and you'll be able to retain both the PvE Player and the PvPvE Player and grow the player base organically.

    I think the "no progression" aspect of the custom servers will be perfectly fair already personally. If anything, a small % of gold, and no rep or commendations whatsoever, no need to trial and error until the game population balance is already spoiled.

    Nah, It should just be "tall tale mode" (similar to Arena), have it's own tall tale reputation, and maybe even currency. You want a chill sailing adventure without PvP? Do tall tale mode work on a tall tale. It would still have meanignful progression, but not interfere with the whole gold / loot issue.

    And, if it turned out that that was enough to interfere with the PvEvP ecosystem then that means there was a SEVERE problem with the PvEvP ecosystem already that needs to be addressed.

  • @glannigan said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    If you made PVE servers no one would play them. Sure they would be popular for a week...then the feeling of emptiness, loneliness, boredom, monotonous would set in.

    Assuming this was accurate, why would anyone object to PvE servers existing? If nobody is going to play them, why would it matter?

  • @cptphteven said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    @glannigan said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:

    If you made PVE servers no one would play them. Sure they would be popular for a week...then the feeling of emptiness, loneliness, boredom, monotonous would set in.

    Assuming this was accurate, why would anyone object to PvE servers existing? If nobody is going to play them, why would it matter?

    A waste of development time. Time that could have been used for adding to and improvement of the Adventure.

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