I have look at some of these posts and the thing I don’t understand is the hate for the players that enjoy PvP. It feels like there is a narrative that this game is Pve only and that sea of thieves isent a FPS. I understand both sides but after season 10 I learned that ship combat is gorgeous. We all fell in love with this game one way or another and I know a lot of amazing people that tdm. I don’t expect u people to understand because I know Qs has been used to spawn camp but why would u punish all players for something others do. Now u can still Qs but it’s harder and controller players have no chance to do it anymore which gives pc players a massive advantage. You say it’s not a fps but ship combat needs hand to hand and I feel sad for all of u that never got to feel the satisfaction of being able to skeaat and Qs! All I can say is this has killed most of the PvP community and I’m sad that I’m losing friends in the game!
Qs removal
@dj-dave9686 Don’t need to blunder a player off the ship to feel the satisfaction of sinking someone poor at naval and couldn’t board me properly. I’m good 🙂
@dj-dave9686 2% of the active player base regularly played Arena, plus 50%+ of the complaints through customer support came from Arena. Sounds like getting rid of it was the best thing for the game. Was I sad it was gone? Yes. Am I happier we now have HG for on demand PvP? Yes.
The only problem i see is that Rare allowed this in the game for far too long, therefore i can understand the negative response from the community. That being said SoT is not CSGO and if you play your loadout instead of the game that's on you. Qs removal made combat balanced. Instead of getting 2 tapped in less than 2 seconds you can now react. The combat is so lacking in terms of depths and mechanics that exploits are deemed skill expression. They are not!
@tesiccl
To be honest 2% of players and 2% of whole game time spend on arena are diffrent things.
Second one doesn't directly translate into player numbers.@Dj-Dave9686 as I love pvp I must say im happy that they patched it (somewhat) becouse this exploit lowered time to kill too much cousing less diversity on overall combat and throwing away all balance out of window.
I don't feel eny negative backed feelings thoward qs players but thay expolit was simillar to quick bucket that made my sloop unsinkable, somewhat game braking.
I've been a pretty harsh critic of the advertisement for SoT for the last few years. Rare's advertisements about the game (Welcome to Our Playground!) are remarkably off target. They focus on PVE content and barely touch on the ceaseless threat of PVP. I feel that the ads and videos online don't communicate this is a shared world pirate adventure sandbox. I wish I had bookmarked it because it is lost to the annuls of internet history now, but there seriously was a topic on here a while ago where a pirate asked what sunk them: turns out it was another player. They fundamentally did not understand this was an multiplayer shared-world. Let that sink in—some new players don't know this is a shared world before signing in for the first time and getting sunk. Plus don't forget the biggest bump in new players came with the Pirates of the Caribbean content. You think they joined for the PvP?
Players being sold a PvE narrative is the source of the PvE narrative. So you end up with two camps: the newer PvE craving pirates, and the seasoned PvEvP pirates. I've urged Rare in these forums to change their communication in ads, feature the shared world PvP, help new pirates understand this is an MMO where signing in is consent for PvP. Instead we got safer seas. I can't say I blame them, safer seas will bring back more players into the game then hourglass I bet. (I've read about more players quitting after unmet PvP expectations than when they retired arena.)
@lordqulex the only thing I don’t understand is if u want to punish the PvP community like this why would there be a need for safer seas. If people don’t like PvP and QS they can do safer seas
@dj-dave9686 said in Qs removal:
@lordqulex the only thing I don’t understand is if u want to punish the PvP community like this why would there be a need for safer seas. If people don’t like PvP and QS they can do safer seas
The place where others are disagreeing with you is with your "punishing PvP'ers" sentiment. I like to look at it this way: Rare paid someone to create N frames of animation. Watching N frames of animation is the intended experience. Any combination of button presses that make you skip those frames is a bug and an exploit. Rare fixed a bug. They didn't intend to punish anyone, they simply tried to restore the intended gameplay. This conversation wouldn't be happening if it weren't a bug in the first place.
It's intent versus impact. Because the bug had been around so long and so many pirates had it in their muscle memory, it feels like they're being punished. They're not. Rare simply attempted fix a bug that took them a long time to get around to fixing. No one is being punished, no commentary on PvE or PvP is being made by Rare. They're just fixing a bug. The commentary is coming from the players that are upset an exploit they were using got removed.
@dj-dave9686
you know that the PvP community is not limited to doublegunners and tdmers right? Also not liking Qs doesn't mean that someone doesn't enjoy PvP. By the logic of your arguments you should go play CSGO, the same way you are telling everyone to go play safer seas...Its not an fps, but it does have a pvp side. The game is not competitive in the same way as other competitive games are designed, but it can be competitive at any time. And i will say that ship combat does not require hand to hand combat, you can entirely overwhelm most crews from behind the cannon alone, which is what i prefer to do when possible, but the actual hand to hand combat is not designed the same way as any other fps game.
@dj-dave9686 The big problem with this game is the progression system heavily depends on the PvE grinding which is long and tedious and if you get sunk you literally lose all that time and the whole session becomes a waste. There are a LOT of people who just play solo and since there's no solo sloop only servers for the sake of balancing it's usually a 3-4 man crew going around ruining the solo players experience. The amount of anti social gamers like myself is pretty high. Another issue is there isn't another game like Sea of Thieves. Rare thinks the social interactions is what make this game great... For some people that is indeed the case. However they did make a genuinely enjoyable game outside of the PvP aspect.
Which is the big fear of safer seas. If people have a safe place to play PvP free then the seas would be empty of loot to be stolen which is what makes the PvP element so fun. Stealing someone else's hard work. It's why when Summit1G was playing he had more fun hiding behind on someones ship for literally hours sometimes just to get the big steal at the end vs actually playing himself.
The fact that there is 0 progression outside of selling and someone can come along at any moment and rob you of your time... That's the big quit moment for many people. Safer seas will open peoples eyes to how good PvE discords must be and make them more popular.
The big issue is how can you make the PvE experience still feel rewarding even if you get sunk and all your stuff stolen? The game needs to keep the PvE people coming back but never making progress feels bad. When they had arena they had a similar issue. It was a system with 1 set of rewards and nothing to progress past that. They expected it would stay alive just because people thought it was fun to play. But that isn't the way games work today. We need goals to work toward. So they added a 2nd tier of rewards to arena, did a little rework of it. But then people got those rewards and again same issue. No reason to play if there's no goal. They are really bad at incentivizing people to do things. They add 1 or 2 long grinds then forget about the content. Hourglass is coming up on a year old now and they still expect tedious commendations to carry people from lvl 200-1000.
Similarly they added weapon draw delay to try and solve people getting quickly 2 hit from range because it "felt bad" then people learned quick draw and exploited it for literally years with no action from the dev team. Now here we are years later they finally try to "fix" quick draw and all they did was make it take 1 extra step adding .02 seconds to the quick draw but its still possible. I hate double gun but I accepted it existed. I want year 1 weapon swap back purely for the sake of PvE combat feeling smoother but also to put your average player back on an even playing field with quick draw exploiters.
Let's be real about why the more extreme side of veteran play is dwindling (not just pvp)
Burn out and drama.
Some burn out peacefully and just move on, it's been happening for a couple of years.
Some burn out and switch to burn it down mode which leads to the drama.
There is a lot of valid criticism to be made all around but it's the burn out and the drama that has us where we are.
Even with all of the issues people can still play even at high levels, extreme styles, etc. It takes adapting and it takes effort, consistency, and dedication but it's still around.
SoT being twitterfied to such a degree at the veteran level that even the organic experience has to deal with it is where some of the participation really starts to fall apart.
SoT socially is indistinguishable from any other polarized internet space and that has real effects on community. Game changes, direction changes, etc, these will be the focus but in reality it's people constantly being a part of a negative environment that exaggerates a lot and looks for the worst in things, including in each other.
Content creators playing this game because it's the only game that gets them the numbers has been a real negative for morale. All of the raging and yelling and exaggerations that some do just gets parroted throughout the community. It literally has never lead to improvement, at the very most it just lead to Rare responding to it.
@goldsmen said in Qs removal:
And i will say that ship combat does not require hand to hand combat, you can entirely overwhelm most crews from behind the cannon alone, which is what i prefer to do when possible
This is very true. Immobilizing the opponent's ship and hitting them with a combination of consistently well-placed shots, firebombs, and strategically chosen curses at just the right moment........that situation can be overwhelming and sink any crew.
I don't think there's this "hate" for PvP players as much as you think there is. That said, some of the responses of QS removal, FROM PvP players has been some of the most vitriolic, and disgusting things I've heard - tantamount to a childish temper tantrum.
Perhaps if PvP players didn't act like spoiled, entitled children, when their toys are taken away, and act generally rude, dismissive, and obnoxious to anyone that either is in favor of the removal, or who advocates for people to criticize respectfully, there wouldn't be such a negative stigma on PvP players/the competitive community.
Fact of the matter is that quick swap is clearly not something the devs want in their game, and a grand majority of the community agrees, whether PvP/competitive players like it or not. I can respect that folks took time to learn these tricks (even if I think it's silly they'd rather learn to exploit, rather than play the game normally), but these same players ALSO need to respect that if Rare doesn't want it in their game, they're more than entitled to remove it.
You are absolutely spot on!
Pair everything you just said with the fact that Rare constantly talks about the community coming together on social media while the community in reality couldn't be more at war with itself.
Safer Seas will achieve nothing as the new PvE focused players have no way of actually preparing for the PvP encounters they will inevitably be experiencing the moment they get fed up of the capped progress on the Safer Seas.
In addition, if you consider that the PvP focused players who will have the High Seas to themselves for a while will start to run absolutely amok.
Separating the PvE and PvP players is only going to create a larger skill gap which in turn will cause more friction in the community.
The most irritating thing in my opinion is how the newer PvE players are catered to while veteran players have been ignored for years. I have never played another game that has SO MANY hit registration errors especially not for OVER 3 YEARS of its lifetime.
don’t understand is the hate for the players that enjoy PvP
It’s not hate for pvp. It’s dislike that all they ever do when there is a huge sea of stuff to do that balances it out.
Being sunk to steal my loot is one thing. But sunk just “because” is just wasteful.
That and thinking an exploit is a skill is also sad. Once removed everyone is seeing the skill they had was a lie.
@burnbacon Yeah, it's hilarious when people imply that mashing your keyboard/controller to quick swap is "skillful" or creates a "skill ceiling" - just call it what it is, exploiting/abusing a broken mechanic.
@scurvywoof I get what u mean but I think the sword lunch exploit should get removed in that case aswell. But it’s not that simple that will also have a big backlash from the community
@habiki as one of the top navalers in gally hg I can not agree with this statement a board to finish a ship of is essential in high level fights. And the use of blunder fire and curses are not allowed in those games
@magus104 I’m sry to hear you are anti social because there are a bunch of great people in the community. but to be honest the only thing that will keep me in the game is a new grind like hg I’m hoping the commendations for that siren skull will be hard so the grind will be long.
@dj-dave9686 said in Qs removal:
@scurvywoof I get what u mean but I think the sword lunch exploit should get removed in that case aswell. But it’s not that simple that will also have a big backlash from the community
You are really continuing this after 8 days? sure.
Rare already "embraced" the sword lunge as a mechanic during launch because it was "too funny to remove".
They never, ever, said that quick-swap was a mechanic. Call it double standards, but they are the developers, not the crybabies at twitter.
People claim that quick swapping is a mechanic because "it has been in the game for 5 years". But with that logic, hitreg is a feature as well, and the developers should stop working on it.
@goofycs-811 said in Qs removal:
Pair everything you just said with the fact that Rare constantly talks about the community coming together on social media while the community in reality couldn't be more at war with itself.
Safer Seas will achieve nothing as the new PvE focused players have no way of actually preparing for the PvP encounters they will inevitably be experiencing the moment they get fed up of the capped progress on the Safer Seas.
The community includes everyone, not just the same few hundred people engagement farming/yelling at the clouds on social media
I'm chill with people that don't see this environment the way I do and vice versa. Most people that play the game aren't interested in SoT drama/fighting.
Social media isn't the way to gauge the health of a community, it's QoL for people without power. In this case it's people without connections and without being a part of social cliques so their in game experience is more difficult than those with the connections/cliques.
Safer seas increases QoL opportunity which adds on to other QoL that has been added for people that are not at the top.
There are always agitators and instigators in every community with some size to it. People that like to pick at each other as a hobby. The important part is that the experience becomes less harsh for those outside of that drama and outside of the power groups.
None of this is the game going downhill, this is the game becoming something it always needed to become in order to survive.
Many in the social areas are growing more hesitant to express their joy publicly for the experience of SoT because of a small group that creates a lot of drama (not just one side of issues)
It causes people to feel that they have to insult the experience or acknowledge flaws before they can just say that they enjoy something.
A small group of very vocal people will try to control this environment on different sides of fights but they will fail because all people have to do to enjoy what they enjoy is set sail and close social media apps.
@dj-dave9686 said in Qs removal:
@habiki as one of the top navalers in gally hg I can not agree with this statement a board to finish a ship of is essential in high level fights. And the use of blunder fire and curses are not allowed in those games
I mean, some fights sure. High level fights? Most likely.
But most people in this game will never come anywhere close to approaching the skill level of a top level galley player, and in many cases boarding is unnecessary. I went back into hg the other night for the first time since season 8 launched and ended up with three wins. At no point did I board any of those ships, and only on the final one did I use any curses.
I'm curious what you mean by blunder, fire, and curses aren't allowed in high level games? Do you mean just by some unspoken agreement by hardcore hg players to show how skilled they are?
@tesiccl said in Qs removal:
@dj-dave9686 2% of the active player base regularly played Arena
I do feel like I need to point out one incorrectness with this that I regularly see.
It wasn't 2% of the playerbase that played it.
It was 2% of the playtime of the entire playerbase.
I like to point that out because I would bet that there is so much lingering content in Adventure mode that gets as little - or less - attention than Arena did by the playerbase.
That lingering content has some sort of impact on the performance of the game and how terrible the servers feel...can we get rid of all the stuff that gets as little attention as Arena did?
“As we’ve shared before, only 2% of our players’ time is spent in The Arena on a consistent basis, and this has never really changed.”
Very sorry and not to be pernickety but this doesn’t say to me 2% of all players they’ve ever had.
@sweetsandman said in Qs removal:
I like to point that out because I would bet that there is so much lingering content in Adventure mode that gets as little - or less - attention than Arena did by the playerbase.
That lingering content has some sort of impact on the performance of the game and how terrible the servers feel...can we get rid of all the stuff that gets as little attention as Arena did?
I can't think of anything that exists that isn't worth it, as far as major content goes
everything that currently exists adds to the organic experience.
shrines, the roar, tall tale stuff, voyage stuff, it all creates a more interesting map imo
we don't really know the impact on the servers but we do know that removing content would take away from the experience for people.
