Quickswapping is not patched still. New videos are popping up and bypassing the changes.

@eva1977

Im almost sure that there was no way (at least no legit way) of bypassing that timer, if you would switch and ads as fast as possible there was a moment when it just would not let you shoot

In all honesty I would approve of forcing the sword to always be your first slot.

Each gun has its strengths and weaknesses, only taking one would solve the quickswap, give the gun choice more weight, and honestly feel more specialized.

+1 for this idea

Me when sword users use quickswap constantly in their gameplay but think that only DG benefit from it :0

@offtherec So is Ladder Launching, DPI Glitching underwater, Legend Hideout glitching to the Sea Dog Tavern area, voting on the Tall Tale to move the visual of the storm, Bucket/Shovel animation cancelling, wall banging, etc.

They are using something that was NOT intended by the developers, and they decided that they wanted to remove the ability to do that.

The design intent of Sea of Thieves was that everyone is on the same playing field... and learning the mechanics of the game through play is the only thing that gives seasoned players the edge. If something is done that doesn't make sense through the context of the intended mechanics, it should be fixed.

Quick Swapping weapons, just like animation cancelling the bucket/shovel creates an unfair advantage over people who are just trying to learn the game, and gives an unfair edge/advantage to people abusing it.

While a solid portion of double gunners used the system... it became a lot more of a problem with the abundance of cheaters using Aim Hacks and Macros to make it just a couple button presses for them to fire two bullets in less than a second, basically insta-killing people with a pistol/sniper.

On top of that: With any competitive game, if there is a load out that basically is considered "The best" it either needs to be nerfed, or the other options boosted... in which case they either needed to remove quick swiping double guns... or boost the sword... which I am going to gather nobody wants.

@reverend-toast

Huh did i miss sth? Thats not at all what we were talking about before
You said sth about macros and now you just copy pasted your paragraph on double gunning with no context?

@offtherec

You said quick-swap used to be part of the legit player base. And so were/are the other things that I mentioned... some were removed(Shovel/Bucket cancel), some are still in there (Ladder Launching).

Yep, still possible. Met a Guy yesterday who definitly did it.

@reverend-toast
"They are using something that was NOT intended by the developers, and they decided that they wanted to remove the ability to do that."
-Sword lunge hopping and sword lunge canceling. But those are fun features right?

"The design intent of Sea of Thieves was that everyone is on the same playing field..."
-Let's add gun lunging to level the playing field.. Nothing inherently about a sword allows you to launch yourself from wheel to bow of a gally or glide across the water like a dolphin right? So let's add that to guns too to level the playing field. (I'm not being serious here, I don't actually want that. Just be aware of your extra abilities)

"With any competitive game, if there is a load out that basically is considered "The best" it either needs to be nerfed, or the other options boosted... in which case they either needed to remove quick swiping double guns"
-"The best" is opinion based. Sword loadout has always been best for deck fighting. Many double gunners that are getting camped switch to sword to break camps because of how powerful it is. Great anti-camp weapon and often makes double gunners jump ship. Also, Sea of Thieves is not a competitive game, Rare has made this clear and it's the exact reason this patch has gone into place.. To make the game less competitive.

--

From my experience fighting sword users that complain I'm using 2 guns I have some takeaways.

1. They don't eat, they just keep running at you even if they've been hit.
2. They don't listen for the reload sound of an enemy blunderbuss, they run up close and personal when it's obvious that they are in the 1-shot zone.
3. They don't use all the movement abilities available to them such as sword dashing to the side to make an opponent miss a shot.
4. They run in a straight line to their opponent.
5. Most people that complain about double gunning have no experience using the loadout or don't PvP much.

--
This is not our fault sword users are not using their abilities.
In 3k hours I've only run into a handful of sword users that deserve props because they've taken the time to master their craft, play sneaky and defensive, dodging shots, being aggressive while I'm reloading, etc. The same as I had to learn how to fight with limited ammo, conserve shots and learn every ammo crate spot on every island, avoid getting ADS bugged, dodge sword users attacks. I expect other players to go through the same learning process with their loadout.

With quick swap removal double gunners have 0 movement abilities available to them except walking. No lunging, no dashing, no running. Reg is still just as bad as it always has been - Does anyone realize a good 30% or more of our bullets don't count? All these people saying, "Rare should make guns a 3 shot kill", "Rare should make it so you only have 5 bullets total to use for both guns".. It's basically already like that!

Quickswapping saved 0.2 seconds. I'm not sure if anyone commenting on the matter is aware how fast that is so I pose here a challenge for you: Snap your fingers 5 times per second. Every snap is 0.2 seconds. That is how small the difference is.

Now you may ask, if that's how small the difference is, you should be fine with quick swapping removed. You are absolutely right.. IF it was removed properly. But the way it has been removed opens us up to less movement abilities, and more generally buggy experience.

We don't double gun because it's "The best" loadout. We double gun because it's the most challenging, rewarding, and FUN loadout that took some thousands of hours to master.

I think the devs have decided that animation cancelling just isn't something they want in the game. The reason why this animation cancel in particular hasn't been fully patched is because it involves multiple different items, and a full hard code timer between swapping items would make the game feel clunky.

@baronbrr

They dont seem to have a problem with animation cancelling in general, as many other cancels including quickswap with a sword are still possible
The hardcoded timer is already there and did not make the gameplay nearly as clunky as the current attempt to patch it

@offtherec They have patched quick swap techniques that gave an advantage to players (Bucketing, Shoveling, etc.) and now Guns. Just because it is something that you can do does not mean it is intended.

Why do you think there is a difference in "Speed Runs" an "Glitch Runs" in speed run competitions? Glitch Runs are things that you can do in a game that weren't intended by developers... the quick swap is not intended, and just because the game in insanely complex doesn't mean they aren't trying to fix things.

@reverend-toast
Why do you think there is a difference in "Speed Runs" an "Glitch Runs" in speed run competitions? Glitch Runs are things that you can do in a game that weren't intended by developers... the quick swap is not intended, and just because the game in insanely complex doesn't mean they aren't trying to fix things.
-This is a bad example because it's just not true. Certain "exploits" are accepted in the glitchless category by the community because they are fun, easy to learn, and treated as mechanics instead. An example of this is in the Rare game: Goldeneye for the Nintendo 64. Speedrunners found out that by angling the camera, side strafing + moving forward they are able to move their character faster than just walking normally forward. They call this "strafe running" if you want to look it up. This is considered glitchless even though technically you are moving the character faster than the developers intended.
-Those heavy bugs that allow you to skip portions of the game are what fall under "glitch run"

In the case with quickswapping it is considered fun and easy to learn as well as not game breaking by those in the double gunning community. But those that have never used it, never tried to learn it, don't understand how little time it actually saves don't like it. To put this into perspective this is the same as if Rare took away sword lunging jumping, sword dash canceling, and sword quickswapping (since you can in fact still quickswap with a sword) and all the other exploits with the sword.

Sword lunge hopping started out as an exploit that Rare Devs did not intend.. But they thought it was fun, so they kept it. Now sword users have the fun exploits and the double gunners are left with boring and buggy wield animations that play multiple times, stutter, and disable our movement and mobility in the game we had previously.

@bleu-solo While it may be "Easy" to learn, it goes against the established mechanics, and like other animation cancelling techniques, it is being removed from the game.

While there are still ways to cancel the animation, those will be most likely resolved soon.

And while my example wasn't the most perfect, it still stands that the developers decided they didn't want the animation cancelling to remain, so they are making efforts to remove it.

If the quick swap was intended, it would just be a single button press. But since it requires 3 button presses to do, it is obviously something that wasn't intended... and not something that is easy to pick up without explanation.

wow OP showing so much empathy to other parts of the community, his favorite weapon gets a buff, his not so favourite weapons get a nerf and season10 isnt even 24h old he is already complaining. its a sandbox and people play it differently.

maybe think about lettin go off the one time u got sunk by someone usin two guns.

@reverend-toast
"If the quick swap was intended, it would just be a single button press. But since it requires 3 button presses to do, it is obviously something that wasn't intended... and not something that is easy to pick up without explanation."
-While I agree that using a bucket/compass and other bypass methods to cancel animations in Season 10 is wrong- that is going out of your way to exploit. However, I hard disagree that quickswapping before was exploit-y. I'm not sure if you're a sword user or a double gun user, but regardless.. you yourself have probably unintentionally quickswapped hundreds of times in the past without realizing it. Quickswapping is done by accident all the time because it's an organic, normal thing in the game.

Let me elaborate why you've probably quickswapped in the past and just didn't know it:
You've shot your opponent (or sword slashed them a couple times), rather than reload you instead choose to switch weapons, now your opponent ran around a corner. You chase after them. Now that you can see your opponent again you aim down sights and shoot the opponent. This is a totally legitimate and normal way to play the game right? You have unintentionally quickswapped because you just:
Shot - Switched weapons - Ran - Aimed Down Sight

However with the way it's been patched:
Movement is destroyed. Your opponent has ran around the corner and you're forced to walk if you'd like to be able to shoot your gun. Or, run after them and have an even longer delay before you can shoot again.

Let me turn attention to this forum post made by Rare developer Mike comments on the original removal of quickswapping 5 years ago, as this is how the developers re-envisioned the gunplay:
https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/80556/combat-balancing-changes
"Rather than add an arbitrary delay, from the gameplay perspective, it will always ‘feel’ better to have a wield animation where the gun animates to the screen, comes to a natural rest, and the moment the animation looks like its finished, the gun will be ready to fire."
-As a gun player myself, disagree. It does not "feel better" to have a wield animation play while you should be able to shoot the gun. There has always, since that update, been a timer making it IMPOSSIBLE to shoot faster than Rare intends. No matter how fast you quickswap, there was a delay in which you can spam the mouse button and nothing will happen. Once that shot timer has run out you're able to either hipfire the gun instantly, or spend an extra 0.2 seconds aiming down sight (ADS wait time was bypassed with quickswapping allowing you to shoot ADS'd at a hipfire speed). So if the wield animation were to begin playing out, but be able to be interrupted once the shot timer runs out, the game would feel a lot more smooth.

The wield animations take away the immersion too. If I'm chasing after someone pulling my flintlock out, why am I going to point it in the air before aiming at them? I'm pulling that thing right to eye level my enemy is in front of me after all. Why am I pulling out my eye of reach aiming to the left when my enemy is in front? I'm running after my opponent and I'm just going to lazily bring my gun to the side, let it come to a full rest stop, then aim? It doesn't make any sense. The "arbitrary delay" being able to aim down sights sounds fantastic compared to what we have currently.

Right now in Season 10 double gunners versus other double gunners don't even have a fair fight since some might be able to shoot before others depending if you decided to move the wrong way. Gunplay is super clunky right now, ADS bug is through the roof, and sometimes ever since s10 randomly my gun is stuck in a limbo of attempting to equip and stow itself repeatedly. Example video here: Very fair gameplay experience.

I get that you don't want people shooting faster than they should and as a double gunner myself - I'm on your side. But can we stop saying "exploit bad", "patch good" when it's obviously more broken than it's ever been and work on an appropriate patch that everyone can be happy with?

Let the Aim Down Sights animation interrupt the wield animation when it is acceptable to shoot. Please, thank you. So we can chase opponents and be ready to take that shot when we go around the corner instead of staring at our gun pointing it in the sky.

@reverend-toast
Why is there still a quick use of sabers and weapons in the game? why is it possible to move quickly with an object in your hands?
for so many years, the players played and everything was fine, and then bam after 4 years (or when they wrote that they would remove) decided to make it as non-playable as possible.
Players playing saber + weapon have not lost anything in season 10. why does the saber jerk using the right mouse button work like this? when you make a dash, you can't jump, but for some reason you can use the block. using 2 weapons, you lost such maneuverability as if you were using a saber. and for some reason everyone does not whine why does the saber work like that

@dre1sh Drawing the sword should be faster so you can block another sword attack quickly. But even with the sword, if someone has backed themselves into a corner blocking, you need to wait for the whole draw animation just like a double gun user switching to fire a shot at them.

All that is happening with the quick swap being removed, is nerfing double gunning is to remove its advantage over the sword/gunners. As I mentioned before: The alternative to remove the quick swap is to make the sword more powerful like giving it the ability to block shots (Or pellets from the blunderbuss).. which again: I am sure the double gunners would be more against.

@rustypyrate I'd avoid likening gun play to real life golden days of piracy. Your gunplay would become a lot more cumbersome with extensive reload times, no scopes, gunpowder issues and slow firing times. The SoT gunplay is closer to that you'd see in TF2, it was too quick, especially considering most shooters have melee weapons that kill in 1 or 2 hits, the sword is pretty weak compared to alot of them shooters. What most people who pick up the game expect is something akin to Pirates of the Caribbean where swords are used on deck after shots are fired and that's what Rare should be aiming for. Not CS on boats, Blazing sails offers that and funny enough has a slower TTK than SoT did pre quick swap removal.

How can you play a game where the survivability of your ship depends on the TTK of the enemy? If you did not kill quickly or did not register a blunderbuss in the enemy, there is a great chance to lose the ship because you as a person who uses 2 weapons becomes defenseless without ammo. Why no one talks about Imbalanced sabers, but everyone says that quick change of weapons is too imbalance. Players just don't want to learn how to play with a saber because with a saber is much more difficult to wield. Playing without saber you lose too imbalanced maneuverability. The saber jerk is illegal because when you use a block, the range of your jerk becomes much farther and it becomes easier to control it. Why doesn't anyone suggest fixing this? The same jerk of the saber in the water, which was a bug but became a chip for some reason so why can not and quick change of weapons to make a chip because it was already so many years and only after so many years it decided to remove, breaking the life of players who honed their skills ta and in general for solo players like me became impossible to play because it is obvious that if you do not have a weapon that kills with a single shot to play solo problematic, but the long-range weapons should be because against more players better shoot at a distance. The way they decided to fix it is too terrible and not playable. I do not say that I directly changed weapons for 0.0001 seconds because with my ping it is not so easy because the weapon often does not shoot and need to make unnecessary movements. If they are going to fix this, then fix everything. Players who know how to do certain actions have a huge advantage over those who do not know how to say the same jerk saber with the help of blocking the attack or fast movement with an object. as you fixed x-bucket why do not fix all of this????

@reverend-toast I apologize, maybe because of the incorrectness of my expressions or because of the translator I was not able to convey what I meant.
I meant that the players who played sword+weapon have not lost anything in season 10, because they can also make a combo of 3 sword attacks and switch to firearms without delay and kill a player who does not even have time to eat after receiving a combo of 3 attacks.

@dre1sh there is still the same delay in pulling out a firearm as a sword user as there is for a double gun user.

@burnbacon Some of us have been here since beta, some of us have tried to come back over and over again.

Some of us loved the game and wanted it to be the game it could be. WE were in arena for 45 minutes waiting on matches that devolved into Bunny hopping Csgo fests when they finally did start.

When we stopped playing BECAUSE OF THE 45 MINUTE WAIT, they said "No one played"..... seriously? No one? Cuz I kno wa game with a smaller pop that gets matches in 2 minutes, 5 boats, 20 players... 2 minutes.

Then we waited 45 minutes for hourglass to devolve into bunny hopping CS GO pirate edition.

I mean, I quit and went to Blazing Sails because they can do all the match making and gun balancing fixes and its 3 dudes... which only makes me angrier that a microsoft backed studio cant get any of it right.

So yeah, some people are gonna be upset that 5 years laters, simple fixes arent there.

@jdge439
Absolutely correct. The combat in its current state is abhorrent, and it was really bad with the quick-swapping meta that was allowed to persist for 2+ years. Rare has so many resources, see their constant progress on the Pirate Emporium and their merch store. I'm a day 1 player that is done with this game.

@reverend-toast

"Drawing the sword should be faster so you can block another sword attack quickly. But even with the sword, if someone has backed themselves into a corner blocking, you need to wait for the whole draw animation just like a double gun user switching to fire a shot at them."
"there is still the same delay in pulling out a firearm as a sword user as there is for a double gun user."
-Pulling out a gun should be faster because a sword is chasing me. Using that same logic it doesn't really stick the same for you? Also what you said about draw animation is just not true.. again. Swipe your sword, switch weapons, sprint, ADS. You can still quickswap with the sword. Very fair that they left quickswapping for sword users, but gun users no longer have it. See sword quickswapping: here

In fact sword quickswapping is even faster than gun quickswapping was. Because with gun quickswapping we always had a cooldown (invisible timer) between shots making it impossible to fire the weapons faster than Rare intended. So no matter how fast you swapped weapons and ADS, the gun wouldn't shoot if that timer had not run down.

And again, this has probably happened to you hundreds of times without you realizing it! Because it's a very natural reaction to switch weapons, want to chase after someone, then aim, and sprint (swipe, switch, run, ADS)

@wolfmanbush its called resource allocation

@wolfmanbush It's because they are prioritizing profitability of this game but not truly committing to the improvement of the core game. It's frustrating as someone who has helped monetize this game for as long as they've had a RMT shop that they have not done much to improve the core mechanics of the game.