The Supplies Debate in new Hourglass PVP mode

  • HelpMelton
    Captain
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    Founder

    I've seen lots of people complaining about how much time it takes for an invading ship to gather supplies before being able to take the fight to a defending ship of the opposite faction. I've also seen lots of people suggesting a system where once you are invaded or invade, your ship's supplies are locked off and you are given supplies for the battle. This I think would be a good idea if the goal of the game mode was for players to have fair match made PVP. However I think a feature like this would harm the game in the long run and here is why. (These are my opinions on the game in the current state feel free to disagree)

    Currently players are obsessed with the new game mode and are racing to get the curse of their favourite faction OR both! and I cant blame them, I'm doing the same thing. What this means is most people defending and attacking are still only focused on one thing, a fair fight. The people who are defending are not using the HG as intended (that being to gather loot and increase the gold grade for huge amounts of extra gold) but instead are using it as a way to choose their battle ground to tip the scale of battle in their favour. I've seen lots of people set their arena to the edge of the map, next to sea forts or just in open water. And for this style of game play the battle storage crates would be a great feature giving the players a fair and fun PVP experience. However.... What happens once everyone gets their curse? Slowly people will start using the HG more for its other function, EXTRA FREE GOLD! All you have to do it complete voyages and world events while occasionally fighting off a ship of invaders, risky but also rewarding. So you set out on an adventure on a Brig with two skilled PVP players and start the grind and spend hours filling you're ship with loot... suddenly a fair fight doesn't seem so great? I player who just logged on and decided they want to do some PVP will invade you, put you at risk of losing hours of hard work and they are given the EXACT SAME supplies that you have despite YOU having more to lose and despite YOU putting in all the work... Quickly the HG game mode won't have any players willing to risk defending their loot as no matter how long they spend gathering OP blunder bombs or cursed cannon balls, they will still be at the exact same footing as a crew that just logged on for some quick PVP.

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  • Magus104
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    You are a founder so I don't think I need to explain something you already know. But you cant deny at least doubling the starting supply should have happened a long time ago. The only damage our ships used to be able to take was hull damage. Even then 15 starting planks is REALLY low. Megs and skeleton ships didnt exist so the only thing to give us holes was hitting stuff and other players. The sea also didn't even have even half the number of rock hazards it has today. Lets also remember the krakens tentacle slap didn't exist either. You only got holes from when it would wrap you.

    I don't want an ungodly amount of starting supplies. Maybe just double planks, Not even double food but coconuts instead of bananas.... Though if were purely talking number values ok that is double food since it heals 2x as much. 50 more canon balls at the start would be nice, however thinking maybe blunder bombs should be a found item similar to cursed canon balls rather than part of your starting supply.

  • HelpMelton
    Captain
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    Founder

    I'd agree a boost in starter supplies would be nice.
    But eliminating the need to go seek or buy supplies for an attacker would not be a good change in my opinion, especially for this new game mode.
    the only downside I can think of (for doubling spawn supplies) would be if you have been sunk and spawn close to the ship who sank you, you will be well more prepared for a rematch than before. But that goes outside the scope of this post lol

    The main reason I made this post is because of the 'Battle supplies' suggestion. I've seen lots of people talk about it and even heard youtubers suggest it and I personally think it would negatively impact the HG game mode.

  • HelpMelton
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    Founder

    @helpmelton
    Below are two videos that I've seen below both complaining about the supplies with thousands of views and a comment section all agreeing
    it seems everyone wants the game mode to be more like arena and want this update to be just arena in adventure mode. which is not the purpose of the game mode. on top of that look what happened to the arena =/
    https://youtu.be/UosaeyYW8iY?t=357
    https://youtu.be/tK0k2ZXTDME?t=150

  • MaximusArael020
    Captain
    Insider

    I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Everyone seems to think that this is supposed to be a 1 crew vs 1 crew of equal skill, supplies, etc. However, that's not what it is and not what it was meant to be. If that was the intent, instead of having a "defender" and "hunter" you would have both ships teleported to a small arena with equal supplies where nothing in the Adventure world could impact them until there was a victor, sending them both back to the Adventure mode. That's NOT what this is.

    The devs were clear they wanted the opportunity for things to be dynamic. They wanted other ships to be able to join the fight. They also want these battles to take place organically in Adventure, not just through the "Tunnels of the Damp". They still want people to take part in the Adventure side of things, gathering loot, exploring islands, etc. If everyone just got the same supplies, then there's no need to interact with the rest of the world and then why not just make it "1v1 Arena 3.0"?

    You're correct. Right now many in the community are just playing this mode, trying to get better at PvP, trying to get their curses, etc. Even then I've seen some people already getting burned out, saying "I think I'll go back to doing normal Adventure stuff". But that's the point! This isn't supposed to be the only thing you are doing. Can you play that way? SURE! You can do whatever you want! But that's not really the intent, and that is not what the game needs to be balanced to. The intent is that this will be a thing that sometimes happens in-game, through organic battles and some incursions. The game doesn't need to be balanced for those few players that will be just doing incursions 24/7.

  • Magus104
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    Founder

    @maximusarael020 I actually had given up on the fight over more supplies because they way I was playing it didn't matter. Thanks to over abundant supply crates and rowboats now getting stuff wasn't as much of an issue. It's getting sunk and spawning on a random island then needing to waste time going back to an outpost IF you want to buy supplies but moreso raising the emissary flag for me now. Might as well just relog for a fresh start than spend 2 minutes sailing to an outpost to raise a flag.

    The issue has just come up again for me with this mode since if you are going to try and play properly you will need supplies to fight. This isn't an optional thing any more. It's not a play the way you want. If you want to really pvp and actually try to sink people just like in arena you need supplies. Imagine how garbage arena would have been if they had all 5 ships start at an outpost instead of in the sea dog tavern. And you had like a 10 minute wait before every match where you had to stock your ship and you were subject to the RNG of whatever happened to spawn in the barrels at your starting outpost. Then the match starts ports you all to the battle area and your ships only have the supplies you managed to gather. If you sink? Back to basic ship starting supplies, enjoy your 15 planks. Arena would have been dead out the gate if that was how it is. And that has been how adventure is for 5 years. Now we have an "On demand, high octane GOGOGOGOG mode" but wait!!!!!! gotta stock that ship first..... ZzZzZ 10 minutes later. Ok gogogogo.

    The bigger issue for me is how the developers have always described the game vs what they are actually doing in it. Like on a conceptual level yea cool. The execution is always flaw and never fixed.

    I have a similar complaint with ammo. How are you going to reduce our damage across the board but not lower PvE health? A blue mermaid statue? 3 eye of reach shots to kill, now 4. A shark? 2 eye of reach shots, now 3. Needing 1 extra shot is massive when you only have 5 rounds. Yes minor complaint use your cutlass and skeletons drop ammo pouches at a ridiculous rate. Yes but they didn't back when the damage was first nerfed. If you were doing the long swim with an eye of reach you had enough rounds to kill 2.5 sharks on your way. Now just 1.75 (in case any numbers person wants to call me out those aren't like to the hitpoint numbers because I never memorized the exact damage reductions just speaking vaguely)

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @maximusarael020 said in The Supplies Debate in new Hourglass PVP mode:

    You're correct. Right now many in the community are just playing this mode, trying to get better at PvP, trying to get their curses, etc. Even then I've seen some people already getting burned out, saying "I think I'll go back to doing normal Adventure stuff". But that's the point! This isn't supposed to be the only thing you are doing. Can you play that way? SURE! You can do whatever you want! But that's not really the intent, and that is not what the game needs to be balanced to. The intent is that this will be a thing that sometimes happens in-game, through organic battles and some incursions. The game doesn't need to be balanced for those few players that will be just doing incursions 24/7.

    Only issue being that, for that kind of thing, release is the optimal timeframe to get as much fights as possible because once the majority of the users will have their chosen curses / burned out, you will have to face longer queues. So ideally, it should work like you say, but in practice it will probably end up like Arena where you could wait for 30+ minutes for a game.

    It's a bit like Glitterbeard. At release it was definitely manageable to organically do it. Now, it's difficult enough for people resorting to alliance servers in order to achieve it.

  • MaximusArael020
    Captain
    Insider

    @grog-minto That is a valid point, but still doesn't mean they should change anything with how supplies work just because in this moment people are trying to speedrun certain rewards.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    As you said. Players are trying to get the new curses Quickly. So jumping in and trying to earn those bonus for sinking a lot of ships. Too quick.
    Much like the Milestones....Players are Rushing & instead of just enjoying.

    I give it til Summer before either changes start happening or nobody is using the HG anymore since all the try hards will have had there fill & reached high lvl.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @burnbacon a dit dans The Supplies Debate in new Hourglass PVP mode :

    I give it til Summer before either changes start happening or nobody is using the HG anymore since all the try hards will have had there fill & reached high lvl.

    Imo they will start running double allegeance weekends, akin to G&G in order to boost participation.

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