Grief protection

@otherplayer1vas Best solution I can think of is, just don't get frustrated and angry.
I've been caught flatfooted before at an outpost after turning in, I just get out my speaking trumpet and tell them I'm about to log off, and that they are welcome to my supplies, most of the time they stop and we have a chat, If they don't, then I just scuttle and log and no extra plank for them.

Just checking, but you are aware that an emissary flag is a very valuable piece of loot for other crews? If they sink you and take it its a nice chunk of change and rep with the Reapers.

we want your supplies.

Well if you have any form of Emissary flag up, we will hunt for you. Level does not matter as we just want to collect more flags. Raising an Emissary flag, is like raising a PvP beacon. There is even a faction that specializes in hunting down Emissaries.

And in the OP case, killing you on the Outpost was necessary to prevent you from lowering your flag, while they waited for your ship to sink so your flag would detach.

Sure there is griefing going on, but not in this case. As long as you are taking part in the Emissary system, you are a big target. That is is balance of the bonus system.

@stundorn said in Grief protection:

PvP is all fine, the sweats just aren't. All you need to do is to make combat so they lose fun.
remove DG, make a restriction to bunnyhopping and have pirates exhaust for example.
increase the ttk of a player, restict serverhopping and such.

You do realise that this would increase the skill ceiling and skill gap?
You don't think that "sweaty" players are capable of managing stamina? can they not hit their shots with only one gun? High ttk games are the ones with some of the highest skill ceilings and very skilled communities.
You don't like anyone with any proficiency in their chosen game, that's all.

@otherplayer1vas

If you are enjoying a grog in a tavern with your flag still fluttering above your crows nest you must expect to be sunk.

If you have finished your journey and lowered your flag you have nothing to lose as you are ready for off anyway. If you really want to have a grog why not start a new game for 15-20 minutes of virtually guaranteed uninterrupted tavern fun? I honestly can't see a problem here either way.

The stranger hangs out in the Tavern who everybody sells Athena loot to so it can hardly become a safe zone lol, it's the most dangerous place in the game..

@otherplayer1vas said in Grief protection:

@ghostfire1981
I understand the part of the emissary flags, but I have already commented on that part.
I have no issue for people to kill me for my flag (which is loot).
But even without flag, I get griefed into oblivion.

Griefing in SOT can only be done by your crew. You have all the tools you need to remove yourself from a situation that you don't want to be part of.

I think one reason for this is, this game doesn't have many player encouters. So the game gets stale quickly. Once you actually meet another player, some people would channel their boredom into doing something exciting (for them). Maybe by increasing the amount of people in a given instance by 3x, would solve some issues.

Player could come for help, or fight eachother, it would open a whole new way of interacting.

I kinda agree with this, I'd love to see more ships on the server too

There is a "alliance" system which is basically useless. I rarely meet more than 1 other player group in my entire play time of 3-4 hours. And 9/10 times that player group is dead set to exterminate me and any shred of fun I have. So what alliance am I suppose to propose?

ok so you encounter one other ship over 3 to 4 hours

Sometimes I even shout via the megaphone that I come in peace, and I have no loot. Yet they still spawn kill me, laugh about it, till the point i am fed up and NEED to scuttle my ship just to find another group 45 minutes later doing the same thing again.

hang on a tic... didn't you just say you don't usually see another ship for 3 to 4 hours? yet somehow now you encounter people every 45 minutes?
I smell hyperbole

How is this fun?

Have you tried fighting them off? what about running? or hiding?, or a rowboat play?
The fun in SOT comes from taking on whatever obstacles the game throws your way, be that players or skeletons, or an overly friendly tentacle monster. Some days you will fail, but that makes the times that you do succeed so much sweeter.

@otherplayer1vas said in Grief protection:

Yes probably people would think "oh there goes another salty player with a griefer post". But not really, just hear me out.

This game is great, have played it on and off for years, recently started to play a lot again, with and without friends. Yet it seems this game has grown a lot, in griefers.

Just to clearify what I consider griefing:

• Repeatedly killing other players for no reason at all. There is no loot to be had yet keep killing and destroying, and losing emmisary status.

What I DONT consider griefing:

• Killing for loot
• Spawn killing until ship is completely looted
• Killing to steal rewards or loot
• Revenge killing
  (Basically all killing, destroying, hindering, plundering and hunting that have a clear goal of gaining loot and enriching the attacking party) or revenge.

Now recently what have happend a lot, I have done a few treasure maps, then went to an outpost, have sold all my chests, and stacking up that emmisarry value and level. Then out of the blue, a player just destroys my docked ship. Then comes on land, and with a whole group hunt me down, killing me. No reason at all. No loot to be stolen.

I get that in the open sea or at islands, one can get hunted and one can avoid encounters, but I feel there should be a safe zone at outposts. That ships cant sink and players cant die. I almost decided to stop playing when it happend the 5th time this week. It's very offputting to play for hours, leveling up emissary, stacking up food and wood in your ship, having fun sailing the sea, just to try to relax after your long journey in the tavern of an outpost just to hear cannon fire, see you ship sink and a group of plauers charging towards you and mercilessly killing you in front of the tavern.
Instead to feel relaxed after a long play session, i get frustrated, angry and confused to why I must die this pointless death for NO reason at all. Griefing.

I propose there should be some type of safe zones for outposts. All the rest I dont really mind. If you set sail you would accept the dangers that come with it. But an outpost should be a safe haven, to wind down from a journey.

Just my 2 cents.

An island safe zone wouldnt save you. It would prolong your suffering and make you wish you were killable along with thebl rival crew.

I could literally board your ship and be unkillable. Sell your loot alongside you and laugh as you become more angry about not being able to defend it.

I could keg you and kill and sink your ship still.

I could make a wall of players around the gold hoarder and prevent you even cashing in at all.

Surely its much better to just check the horizon before you cash in?

Its the easiest and also smartest thing to do.

If you want a *safe zone' get the tall tales checkpoint and find refuge there til the pirates sail away.

@otherplayer1vas

There is a vast amount of reasons to kill other players and it isn't griefing. You indicate you are losing your emissary status, which by definition means your ship itself has loot attached to it... those flags are loot.

Removing someone from an area because they are a threat to you is just as clear of a goal in the game; safety and security to collect or sell their loot. Just because you don't believe you are not a threat to others does not make you not one, you are a pirate just like any other.

Outpost should not be a safe zone, as it makes it far to easy to abuse and secure loot before you sold it or allow others to steal from you without any form of retribution.

Want to chill out and wind down from a journey, go to the ferry or the Athena's Fortune tavern, it tends to be empty and even if they sink your ship most won't bother going down there.

I get that in the open sea or at islands, one can get hunted and one can avoid encounters, but I feel there should be a safe zone at outposts.

The entire problem with Outpost Safe Zones is how far to easily they are accessible. At your next opportunity, look at the Sea of Thieves map, here is a link to save you the trouble.

Look at this map, and you will see that most outposts are easily accessible from pretty much anywhere. What you have effectively made is a game that people can just flee to outposts to avoid all scuffles. Any vigilant crew could just beeline to an outposts to never fight. It just breaks the spirit of things when you essentially make a system that prevents stealing in a game with a heavy focus on stealing. I hate sounding like a doomsayer, but this kind of change would cause an exodus of players.

With all that being said, just because you have no loot doesn't mean you shouldn't be sunk. Any ship's presence presents a potential threat. If I want to sell my loot in peace, I will sink you to accomplish that. It doesn't make me a griefer to protect my interests.

Player presence is a valid sink reason whether one likes it or not.

Now recently what have happend a lot, I have done a few treasure maps, then went to an outpost, have sold all my chests, and stacking up that emmisarry value and level. Then out of the blue, a player just destroys my docked ship. Then comes on land, and with a whole group hunt me down, killing me. No reason at all. No loot to be stolen.

How would they have known? Your just at an outpost, how were they suppose to know you didn’t hide something? Also, yours in the way...you might try to steal from them.

That isn’t griefing, they didn’t ruin your gaming experience or say anything harmful right? Just killed you and sunk ship.

If you have nothing like you said, then I believe you would be okay with simply scuttling.

@otherplayer1vas said in Grief protection:

I get that in the open sea or at islands, one can get hunted and one can avoid encounters, but I feel there should be a safe zone at outposts.

Also wouldn't you find it annoying if somebody boarded your ship and stole loot then hard tailed it to an outpost so they were untouchable as they turned it in?

Safe zones would be a 'Griefers' paradise as you call them..

No outpost safe zones. By doing that you take away the chance of other crews getting their stolen loot back if they get sunk and then player rushes to a safe zone post to sell it. Loot is not truly yours until you sell it, up till that point is can be taken. Pulling up to an outpost is not good enough.

Keep a look out, ships just dont pop out of no where.

@alymon said in Grief protection:

I spawned into a server yesterday fresh. Before I had finished loading in, a player was hitting me with a sword and killed me. Trip to the ferry, load back in, he's still there and does it again, camping the tavern.

After 3 or 4 times, even with trying to fight back, trying to run out of the front of the tavern to escape, I was unable to do anything other than scuttle my ship and respawn elsewhere.

It was frustrating. It was garbage. It was absolutely griefing. I left the server and started in a different one. It would be nice if there was some protection in situations like that, but not sure what the best option is that wouldn't possible have negative unintended consequences.

And what exactly did you lose in this instance? NOTHING but a few minutes, and you could have gotten out of it earlier by:

1. sailing away from the outpost as you spawned in on your ship
2. scuttling earlier and then carrying on with your session

This is not necessarily "griefing" as you claim since you have no idea what the other person was doing there. Perhaps their crew was in the process of turning in after you had the rare instance of spawning where another player/crew was already there or arrived just after you got into the game, hence needed to keep the outpost clear. To them, YOU were the invader and needed to be dealt with. Not everything is as cut and dried as you make it out to be as you are not considering all the possibilities.

Regardless, this is a very rare occurrence in the game where you would spawn into an occupied outpost. Most times it is better to be safe than sorry.

Griefing most times occurs within your own crew where they are disrupting your session by actively sabotaging your ship, supplies or loot. There are very few instances of actual griefing between opposing crews - the only ones I consider are camping a ship and keeping it afloat for giggles or repeatedly targeting the same crew for no reason other than to ruin their game. But both this instances come down to intent, which is hard to prove unless they outright state it. There are legitimate reasons for doing those actions as well, such as clearing a ship in the case of spawn camping (which can be unavoidable due to the limited spawns on a ship) or revenge for a past battle in the instance of going after specific players several times, hence why it is hard to prove the intent. Your example does not meet that as there are many reasons why they did what they did which are legitimate.

Bottom line, you lost nothing and had the tools to get out of the situation quicker had you chosen to do so.

I'd strongly recommend checking out No Man's Sky if you're looking for a relaxing and griefer-free game.

It's an amazing (space-based) adventure/exploration game, with the ability to play alone, and it just added (free) companions that you can customize and breed!

Not to mention it's procedurally-generated so it's (theoretically) limitless, and it has received regular and substantial updates just like SoT.

Your emissary flag is loot though and is legitmately an item of value

Pvp for simply wanting to pvp isn't griefing people like myself simply just enjoy that part of the game

@alymon I strongly disagree with your assessment. For one, he had no idea you were going to be there since you just started the game - it was likely a surprise to him as well. Just because you didn't see the ship the one time you got out doesn't mean it wasn't there as not all pirates will park at the dock or he could have used a rowboat. From your description it sounds as if you didn't have time to fully assay the island to see if there might have been a ship/boat parked elsewhere. Furthermore camping a singular outpost is not a smart or efficient strategy since there are 7 outposts (8 if you count the Reaper's Hideout, but it isn't a spawn point) and only 4 other ships per server - not very good odds and pretty boring for the "camper" most of the time.

I will say it does suck that you can die before completely spawning in and wish there was something that could be done - a better hard drive/SSD and/or internet connection does diminish these instances a bit. But none of this constitutes "griefing" as you claim in this situation and you cannot prove it either. You do not present enough evidence in this case to actually call that griefing - other players are under no obligation to let you live if you invade the space they currently occupy and you have the tools to remove yourself from that situation. As I said, you lost absolutely nothing in this instance either.

@alymon Whatever dude, as I said you don't have enough information available to say one way or the other and is pretty sophomoric to immediately assume they were "griefing" given the circumstances. You appeared in front of a player already at the outpost and they likely saw you as a threat, thus you needed to be dealt with. I certainly don't believe everyone saying they are peaceful in the game as I have been burned many times by that ruse. You are looking at it through your own narrow point of view, try looking at it from the other side.

Say you are at the tavern collecting supplies or turning in Athena treasure, then suddenly a player appears right in front of you - are you seriously going to wait until they say something first? They are likely not "exploiting" but reacting to a player that just appeared in front of them, and is a possible threat. You could be viewed as the "exploiter" to them since you aren't supposed to appear there when they are already there...ever think of that? They have no idea that you just started and you could possibly be loaded with firebombs so they do not want to give you the chance to use them. Now with the Armory present on the Ferry, you could respawn with a blunderbuss and be a bigger threat upon your return. And before you try the "but I had a starting ship livery" excuse, a lot of people run that - either as a ruse or (as I often do in the mornings before work) simply don't waste the time to change it in order to complete stuff quicker - or even a newish player with no other livery (and equally if no more dangerous, I've seen more new players shoot on sight than veterans).

All I am saying is it is not as cut and dried as you make it out to be, and you have no proof that it was griefing. All you have is your hurt feelings and your own preconceptions, get over it. I prefer to look at the bigger picture before accusing other players of ill intent, cheating, hacking or "griefing". Remember, there are always two sides of the story...and sometimes you are the villain in the other telling of it without knowing it.

But as I said as well, something should be done about appearing before you can react in the game - it should be better synced. Even so, they will still have a slight jump on you before you can react even if you had control as soon as you appeared - and that is OK actually.