I hate solo Hourglass… Heres why,

I've said this since the beginning and I still think it would be the most effective way to deal with this without causing any significant issues.

10 minute timer of no player damage gives both players an option to cancel the fight without penalty and both get merged out if 1 cancels the fight.

It's opt in pvp content and running just to run is not a valid strategy in opt-in pvp content where people need to have hundreds and thousands for the rewards.

Resetting is fine, no damage for 10 minutes on either side is not a fight. Nobody gets penalized and everyone moves on to the next.

What really makes it an issue in HG is that it's often the skilled players that do it. I've seen regulars in the community do it to other regs in the community, streamers do it. It's just wild that regs with fight skill would do that in opt-in pvp content.

They removed red sea dumping which is taking a position on that sort of play that could be seen as a spite play (for those that are intentionally doing it). So if random adventure had a spite play nerf then it would certainly be consistent to do that in HG. Way more of a substantive case for it in HG.

@tesiccl
While it's true that players should always strive to capitalize on their advantages and remain vigilant against opponents, the situation in which I described highlights an issue that goes beyond individual player mistakes. The core concern is the game mechanics that allow for prolonged chases without meaningful engagement, particularly in solo hourglass mode.

In the situation described, I effectively disabled the opponent's ship multiple times, including using chainshots to drop their mast, which should have given a significant advantage. Despite this, the opponent was able to continue fleeing for an extended period, leading to a frustrating and unengaging experience. The issue here isn't merely a failure to capitalize on the damage or an underestimation of the opponent but rather a structural problem within the game mode that allows for prolonged, evasive behavior without consequence.

I suggested that the implementation of a smaller fighting arena or enclosing borders could help address this issue. Such changes could prevent excessively long chases and encourage more dynamic and engaging combat encounters. This isn't about punishing players for running or acknowledging skill disparities but about ensuring that the game mode offers a fun and balanced experience for all participants.

Thus, the suggestion for a mode change is not simply a reaction to individual mistakes but a call for an adjustment to the game's mechanics to enhance the overall gameplay experience. This change could make solo hourglass battles more exciting and rewarding, reducing the frustration of drawn-out chases and making the mode more enjoyable for everyone.

@burnbacon
While the suggestion to remove the "hourglass" aspect from the story may seem to simplify the situation, it overlooks the main issue that I am highlighting—specifically, the mechanics and experience of solo hourglass mode in Sea of Thieves. The detailed account provided illustrates a scenario where a clearly less experienced player was able to prolong the encounter not by outplaying through combat skill but by employing evasive tactics that led to a drawn-out and unengaging experience.

The point isn't merely about being outplayed or giving up; it's about the game mechanics that allow for such lengthy chases without meaningful engagement. In the context of hourglass battles, where players seek exciting and challenging engagements, the ability for one ship to continuously evade and delay the battle for over an hour detracts from the intended experience of the mode.

In my experience—where despite having the upper hand initially, they were unable to secure a decisive victory due to the opponent's constant fleeing—highlights a potential flaw in the game mode's design. This isn't just a matter of "not keeping up the pressure" or "outsmarting" the opponent; it points to a broader issue where the mechanics of solo hourglass mode can allow for prolonged, frustrating encounters that feel unrewarding for the participants. To put this specifically into perspective, if I were to leave the game at the beginning with no streak, I could have lost ten battles in that time which would have given me the same amount of reputation as winning that battle would have ever given me, even considering my three streak bonus.

The proposed changes, such as a smaller fighting arena or enclosing borders, aim to address these issues by encouraging more direct and engaging battles. This would not only make the game mode more exciting and fair but also reduce the potential for such tedious and time-consuming chases.

In conclusion, the argument isn't about removing hourglass or simply chalking the situation up to being outplayed. It's about recognizing a recurring gameplay experience that detracts from the fun and proposing solutions to improve the overall experience for all players.

@burnbacon
Though I understand where you are coming from and technically your argument here is tight. However this is not an argument of money, but an argument of time and engagement, if you please to sit and fish for an hour during this fight by all means have at it, but to those who want to finish a fight with haste and move on to the next with utmost efficiency.... this is not a valid way to play hourglass.

Please understand that I respect the opinions of all others and always want people to play the game the way that they prefer. I am simply sharing my perspective with those who may share the same views as mine.

@theblackbellamy said in I hate solo Hourglass… Heres why,:

@wolfmanbush I don't see how that's better than a simple score system tbh. And rather than a 10-min no-activity timer, just set a hard time limit for the match. It would move fights along much quicker, and those regulars/streamers delaying fights would be pressured to be more active.

Runners didn't win in Arena 2.0 for a reason. Now, there were some cringe crews who would just farm an AFK or inexperienced/open crew at the start, and then run the rest of the match. But that didn't always turn out well for them, and wouldn't be possible in a 1v1 format anyway.

With activity-dependent scores (and Loss-XP), effort would be rewarded, which benefits losers who try; running and loss-farming would yield nothing.

It's not like it wouldn't work but it's also creating metas based on whatever they decide.

No damage timer doesn't create any metas it just gives people a way out if the opponent is sabotaging the solo match by running to run.

@sweetsandman said in I hate solo Hourglass… Heres why,:

@wolfmanbush All that would do is give people a way to either A). Maintain streaks if they realize their opponent outclasses them...or B). Kill someone else's streak if they feel they are outclassed. Each of those is dependent on whether or not "cancelling for no offense" would end streaks.

A timer with a points based system like Arena had is the ticket, IMO.

The point system would need to be reworked a bit (obviously) to encourage SINKING as the meta, opposed to farming "insert frowned upon Arena tactic here", but it would absolutely be the best way to minimize the running issues and exhausting attrition battles.

There's way more that needs to be done to Hourglass in general, but that would be how I would rework the 1v1 system.

In order for arenaesque designs to end up in HG they would have to acknowledge that (despite its faults) Arena was 100x more fun than HG will ever be.

For whatever reason the narrative leaned too far outside of "this just wasn't sustainable" and started to lean too much into Arena was toxic, only x % played it, etc.

I think Arena was stigmatized and HG pays the price for that and maybe will continue to pay the price for that.

@beebstr008 I think my comment on this post.

https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/172034/hourglass-shrinking-boarder/7

is equally relevant here. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see a change that would discourage this behaviour. I believe the hourglass mechanic is meant for people that wish to engage in naval combat (perhaps I'm wrong?), and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if people are using it, and then spending the entire time trying to avoid naval combat, some tweaks to the system might be necessary, but I don't think shrinking borders is the answer.

I think @WolfManbush's solution (a 10 minute timer with no damage gives you the option to merge out with no penalty) is not exactly perfect (as it gives people the option of protecting their streak by opting out of fights when they realise they can't win) but still probably the best solution I've seen so far.

@thamb0 said in I hate solo Hourglass… Heres why,:

@wolfmanbush Arena was 100x more fun, I agree. The toxicity in Adventure mode was and is just as toxic as it was in Arena. I never understood why people labeled it so toxic, when I see more kids saying the no no words in adventure mode way more often, and you could just mute them in Arena. I think they were just looking for excuses to stop working on it. Personally, I don't mind the toxicity because I don't let it affect me. I acknowledge it's a game with thousands of people playing it and toxicity will inevitably be a byproduct. Look at literally every other game with voip, it will always exist. Instead of getting rid of things because of spoken toxicity, just make tools to cater to those who can't handle it, like the mute button and a rep system. If enough people go to your name and personally mute you instead of globally mute all, then maybe you are temp muted for a few months. A similar system works in CounterStrike. Sorry for the tangent, I just wish Rare would acknowledge Arena was way better like you said and implement some of the successes from it into HG.

My opinion on adventure toxicity is that it changed as the game changed.

Earlier on there was a lot more in what I call "the middle". The middle just refers to experienced organic play. There really isn't a lot of toxicity in that group. They enjoy the game, they value their accounts, they just aren't looking to cause trouble or be edgy, etc.

As the game went more casual (which always happens, it's how business succeeds) a lot of the middle moved on. Too much cheesing, too much inconsistency in organic play. It became a lot more of what has existed for quite some time which is a whole lot of new players (a lot of people trying it out on gamepass) and the experienced players that do a lot of social media stuff. It's a lot of content farming, engagement farming, taking pvp too serious. Way too much ego. These 2 groups clash a lot and there is far less of the middle to dilute it.

The whole thing back in the day about merchant boats being "sweaty" was because of that middle. People that did both pvp and pve but played organically.

Arena just had a lot of people in the same area all the time, that's gonna have a lot of drama, adventure would be no different and is no different when boats are around each other.

The merging in HG is probably the best part of it. Really cuts down on a lot of the issues inside the game itself (still a lot of social media drama). People can have their fight and then get separated.