Newsflash #1
Pace and his mates will probably sink most other ships on their Galleon.
Newsflash #2
Beardageddon or Foxdie or ShockwaveZ3RO would sink most other ships solo on their Sloop.
Verdict: You are either good or you aren't, no amount of cannons will change that, only hours of practise. I love my sloop. Everything within arms reach just how it should be.
@odyssee-mit-tee I mean I solo brigs/gals but I hear what you're saying. If you're trying to run from these guys then sail directly against the wind and use your maneuverability as a resource.
Numbers are always an issue regardless of cannons. if you have 4 crew members on a ship you can board and take control of the vessel while one person shoots from their one cannon while the other 3 prevent you from repairing, etc. cannons aren't an issue, just the volume of players.
Don't get in their broad side, as a sloop you turn quicker so just be on top of your game and listen for boarders.
@awsmstaccntname
All this advice sounds so logical but to me the scenario in which I have to sail through the Galleons broadside is already the "I lost" scenario if not at least two cannons shoot at the same time at the Galleon.
For those reasons I would sail to a nearby inactive Fort or the few reliable island cannons I know.
But the wind is not always allowing that. Thats the problem.
That may sound uptight from me but I am not a 'M' to say and I do not enjoy fighting a big ship that chases me when not all possible favours are in our 2 Crewslots favour.
Cause the disrespect will come anyway.
Or the typical and not truly amazing feeling silence.
Saw some 'GG' gamers during Pace's stream but I never encountered them myself.
Most people just do not give me this feeling of worthyness to earn any possible loot I could have on my ship.
It is what it is.
.
People in the SoThieves forum just love their Sloop progamers sinking oblivious crews it seems.
And the Shroudsailers will continue to be. It is what it is.
The limit of dialogue was reached once again.
Most PvP is driven by contempt and ill will no matter what people claim here.
All I see are dumb excuses to withhold one more cannon for the playerships not the Galleon on both sides.
"Galleon sinks the fastest" pfffffff.
All sink the same, if they just take enough hits in an unlucky succession.
And the Gally is the ship with the most cannons to make it happen.
It is what it is.
@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
Time for another rant after quite some time! Ahhh I can't wait!
Inspired and triggered by THIS topic here!
And never forget the wierd imbalance of existing cannons on the already official ships.
Even if the Galleon was planned as a 5 Crewmember type ship first.
Even then the cannon count does 'not' match and is simply unfair!
- Galleon: 4 cannons on each side. The whole Crew can fire at once. 100% Crew firepower
- Brigantine: with only two cannons on each side, it has only 2/3 or 66% Crew firepower
- Sloop: with only one cannon on each side, it has only 1/2 or 50% Crew firepower
The smaller the ship gets, the worse the lack in comparable firepower becomes.
It is so unfair how much more powerful a Galleon becomes with a Crew that knows what it is doing and stays vigilant, in comparisation to other ships.As Sloop & even as Brig player, you are forced to play it very defensively if the taller Ship comes for you and always look for that special one advantage, or else you are simply at a disadvantage in an open direct confrontation.
In the last weeks & months the whine topics about how others just sail into the red Sea, aka the Shroud, has increased greatly once more.
Let me just say, I do not believe that the most of them were Galleons.AND IT IS JUST UNFAIR AND IT STAYS UNFAIR!
The Galleon is the only ship which's middle-deck is actively functioning AS AN ARMOR that takes holes that guard the lower deck, which do only take water unexpectedly with a ballast-ball.
And how often does a Galleon gets hit with one of the rarest naval combat tools?Galleons are even faster than Brigantines if the wind comes straight from the back!
Brigantines are only faster if the wind comes from the side into the sails!
And Sloops have nothing they can gloriously kraken-suck (!) and are forced to flee into the wind and hope it allows them at least a few more sell-in's at nicely alligning outposts, before the ultimate confrontation.IT IS SO UNFAIR how only the Sloop, which has the most crippled crew-firepower proportion - must sail so much slower and has so much less to work with.
" Oh but the manueverability though! "
° Reminds me that bigger ships also profit so much more from the harpoons as the Sloop!
° And bigger Ships too can anchor-turn you know!Or do not even get me started how often one is shot off from the wheel-plattform of the sloop!
Its just frustrating! I will never not belief that the most people comitting seppeku by Shroud are not Sloops!
Galleys have horrible turn rate and you constantly have to adjust sails to maintain best possible speed. So rule #1 is you never get yourself into a broadside battle with a galley. Keep adjusting your course, hitting them from the bow and stern angles. Your course changes will also force them to do the same. Why do this? The answer is simple. Doing so force one of them to remain at the helm 100% of the time to make course corrections. You've just reduced their firepower to 75% BUT WAIT!!! From the 3 remaining crew, 1 will need to help the helmsman adjust the sails, so now you have them teetering back & forth between 50-75% firepower, or 2 to 3 canons alternating. That firepower drops even further when they need to repair because the galleon takes on water like a sponge. You punch enough holes in her lower deck and keep the rate of fire relatively constant and eventually the flooding will become too much for a single player to patch alone. Those are manageable odds for a sloop and a brig. Worst case scenario, if you have to duck out of a battle, sail against the wind at dead sails. The Galley is the slowest against the wind.
Brigantines are the middle ground. Like you said, at most you will have 2 on cannons and one on helm. While the helmsman alone can usually manage course correction and sails, their firepower is reduced when needing to repair damage.
Brigantines are not that much different than a sloop or Galley. Against a galley, you use the same tactics mentioned above, against a sloop, you have to position yourself so as to maximize your broadsides. While you do have a better turning radius than a Galley, the sloop can still out maneuver you.
A brig helmsman will either leave the wheel to repair, so now you have the sailing advantage....OR a canon crew member will leave to repair in which case A. you now have even odds as a sloop in a gun battle (or overwhelmed them as a galley), or B. the helmsman jumps off the wheel to man the cannon while the other crew member is below repairing, which brings you right back to having the sailing advantage as a sloop and the firing advantage as a galley.
This makes Brigs an even match against galleys and sloops in capable hands.
Again, if a sloop needs to duck out - they have the advantage against the wind.
As a solo slooper your battle will require effort and plenty of evasive maneuvers to buy you time to repair and bail water.
With a crew of 2, even if you have to let go fo the guns for a while, you can have one sail you into a safer distance while the other repairs before you turn back into the battle.
Worst case? You have the advantage to duck out and sail agains the wind.
@odyssee-mit-tee You ever think that the Galleon also has the most holes to patch? Have you ever riddled a Galleon with Fire Bombs? Have you ever Harpooned a Galleons aft and swung into a death circle riddling it's hull without taking return fire? No one ever said a Galleon had to be balanced when fighting a Sloop or Brigantine. Why should a two man ship be as powerful as a four man ship? It shouldn't! Beware of Galleons! Beware of chasing GPB laden sloops into a headwind. Beware of Brigantines at all times! The Galleon should have 5 men on it! It should be even more powerful and a four man three cannon ship should be released! The release of the Sloop in Alpha all but ruined a great great ship in the name of balancing! The Galleon use to have a single rotation on the wheel. The anchor used to raise as quick as three men raising an anchor on the Brigantine with only two men raising it on the Galleon! A great fighting vessel was dumbed down so much in the name of balancing that it barely resembles what RARE meant for it to be! Have you ever moved a Sloops sail? Raised a Sloops anchor? You don't see Galleon Captains putting their ships in a circling pattern and abandoning ship but Sloop Captains use this tactic all the time knowing their ship will be afloat upon return. If you decide to go broadsides with a Galleon you deserve to sink. Use COD (change of direction) to neutralize the Galleon and pummel it at opportune moments. Anchor ball it! Barrel it! Burn it! Learning to J turn (Inside turn under the Galleons Cannons) is a great tactic that gains you a ton of distance but it takes guts to do it. Get the idea that the ships should be balanced in every facet out of your head. I've come across super sweaty Sloops that kept our Brig at bay with their pinpoint accuracy on cannons and we're sweats! Every ship has its advantages so don't mention one ships dominant traits without considering the dominant traits of the ship you are on.
In all I think RARE has bent over backwards to appease Solo Sloopers when they shouldn't have.
I look forward to that 4 man, 3 cannon ship though.😉
@dag-13ernit sagte in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
I look forward to that 4 man, 3 cannon ship though.😉
°plays the troll song°
For all intends & purposes I recall to see Galleons rarely. People do not like it that much actually.
Must have to do with how not everyone has enough regular & reliable friends they can play SoThieves together with.
And tbh. the Brigantine does feel much better with its agility & rivaling speed.
The Brig is the best ship, regardless of how long I have sailed on the Sloop.
Nothing matchs the feeling of sailing on the Brig with full wind.
Not even as a joke you can make the Galleon a bit less appealing.
It is a very strong defensive ship.
Like a floating fortress.
Of course a fort is not meant to move like a nimble fly around their enemys.
It is the fly-swatter, if used accordingly.
And the current Sloop is just a mosquito getting slower with each day and it has not much bite left. ;)
The Brig is more like a wasp. While the Galleon is the hornet.
.
Still the topic was about to give more bang & explosions to the naval combat.
Not even less.
Only under one condition the Gally can get 3 cannons.
And that is if the Sloop has only one cannon hencefort, on a fully 360° turnable platform on the front side of the deck.
That would be sexy indeed.
@odyssee-mit-tee Plays the troll song? That's the best response you have to RARE creating a 4th ship? 😉 I throw my hands in the air in disgust with this thread and its author.
@odyssee-mit-tee
Don't get on the galleons broad side! It's very easy to out manoeuvre a Gally while on a sloop I've sunk many ships while solo vs larger crews. All the streamers and partners often use a sloop and praise it as the best ship
Earlier today, I was checking out some new cosmetics I just bought at Daggertooth's equipment shop when I noticed another sloop pull up to mine. I rushed across the beach with my speaking trumpet and used the quick chat "MERCY!" as the other ship opened fire, immediately knocking down my mast.
As I approached my ship's ladder, I could see that my deck was ablaze. I threw buckets of water onto it while swimming to put some of the fire out. As I did so, a figure appeared upon my ship, also on fire. I got shot from a sniper round. I ducked under my boat for cover and ate a mango to heal. My would be assassin jumped into the water after me. I pulled out my flintlock and ended him in 1 shot (I assume the fire he set did the rest of the damage).
I climbed aboard and since I already had a full inventory of cannonballs, went straight to the cannon on the opposite side of the ship that was facing theirs. I noticed movement on the deck near the wheel - I shot it and heard a scream. Then I saw more movement near their cannon - I shot it too. Something flashed green and then died away. Seeing my opening, I ate another mango to reduce the pain from my burns and then knocked out their mast, wheel, and capstan with 3 chainshots. More movement; more screams; more green... Calculated and targeted shots rained out of my cannon's orifice, spreading them across what remained of their ship; it sank in short order.
I then set to bailing water off of my ship by using it to put out the remainder of the fires, then repaired the single large hole in the middle of my ship. Finally, I raised my broken mast. I retrieved their treasure and turned it in, and called it a day by sailing into the sunset.
The moral of the story is that experience and knowing what to do and how to do it under the right circumstances are what really matters. They had every advantage and wasted it; I had opportunities as a result and capitalized on them. The pirates are the deciding factor - not their ships, weapons, or tools.
Fin.
It seems pretty well balanced.
The sloop has its own advantages of being a small target, slow to take water, hardly takes water in the rear, single sail adjustment, fast anchor, close to cannonball barrels and everything a short run in general.
Plus a crew of 4 people working together properly should be formidable.
More ship variety/configuration would be nice though. Such as add/remove armour which also impacts speed and turning. Same for add/remove cannons or light vs heavy cannons.
@torski87 sagte in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
@odyssee-mit-tee
Don't get on the galleons broad side! It's very easy to out manoeuvre a Gally while on a sloop I've sunk many ships while solo vs larger crews. All the streamers and partners often use a sloop and praise it as the best ship
Just because many people use it because they have not many friends probably does not make it the best ship.
Anyone who is good in SoThieves, will master the sloop first that is a no brainer.
Does not make it the strongest ship or the best one.
Of course if you play solo it is also kind of no surprise for truly experienced people, that you have the easiest time playing solo on the Sloop!
No one here has truly convinced me that stuff is truly balanced.
The harpoons came in and even if only nearby rocks or islandground, this lead to the Sloop losing a little bit of the only advantage it had over bigger ships.
.
We all know what is going to happen. Sea of Thieves is full of people who just want to get free loot they steal from others.
And they are toxic & unable to make it feel like a remotely "good sports experience".
Who those people are - is of course always for the opposing type of players to decide am I right?
Oh well ultimately I just wanted more action for this ship that has only 2 crewslots.
And make it sail less into the red maybe. MAYBE. MAYBE!!
I do not care about the Brig that much actually. But I am glad it is suffering along from the unfair numbers of cannons.
And I hope people keep destroying their loot entirely and feel satisfied with it.
Cause there are certainly no regrets in me when I do it.
Did I really wrote that I'm doing this around 4 or 5 months only once?
I meant 6 to 8 months.
Cause I am not playing that much anymore.
I thought free ancient coins and seasonal rewards might motivate me.
But this seasons rewards, even tall tale unlockables, do not lure me at all.
Have fun on the seas.
Of course you will say you have.
Not that anyone beliefs it. And I pray whoever you try to get the jump on, escapes everywhere and if necessary into the red sea.
Cause this is where the loot belongs, of all those people still chased and bullied even though they play as trashy as possible, no emissary, no worldevents, but get harassed regardless.
The most casuals of the casuals.
What we can see in SoThieves is the true face of humanity and damn is it ugly.
@loaf-cat1384 said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
@tenriak you're either being intentionally obtuse because you're stubborn to concede, or you're just not reading what I've said.
Advantages of the Sloop:
- It is the most maneuverable ship.
No it is not
In order to be maneuverable you need to have an ability to position yourself in an advantageous position. Speed is part of maneuverability.
Against a sloop it's even. Against a brig, the brig will drive circles around you, against a galleon it can sit still and rotate. In no situation can you maneuver your sloop better than what any other ship can do.
This is only aggravated by chain shot, magic cannon balls, harpoons, and crew numbers.
- It can be managed entirely by 1 crewmate.
So can any ship.
- Cannonball barrels are placed perfectly for gunners.
And for boarders! Not to mention there are only two barrels when the other ships get three.
- It is the smallest target.
So true! With it's single mast it's easy to disable greatly lessening it's maneuverability status.
- It has fewer places to be sunk
What?
(the Brig sinks the fastest)
Only if you ignore the crew numbers part of the equation. Which you incorrectly do.
These are all advantages that are unique to the Sloop. Every ship has unique advantages and disadvantages. This is why they are so well balanced.
Sorry, but no.
The fact that any combination of ships can result in any either side winning is good.
That is not a fact. A competently crewed sloop generally can not win against a competently crewed brig or galleon who don't make mistakes.
This means that victories are more often than not decided by crew ability.
Yes! Victories are very often decided by TDM. This has nothing to do with how weak the sloop is.
Obviously, all things equal, a 4-person crew will likely win against a 2-person crew (or more often than not, a stalemate). This is a result of manpower, not ship design.
Another of your misconceptions. Giving the sloop a speed bonus might actually make it maneuverable enough to compete against a brig or galleon on the strength of it's maneuverability.
Stop ganking bad brig or galleon crews and claiming it's because your sloop is so good on the forums.
@tenriak
Too late too personal I won't read such a stretched out dialogue anymore.
Saw too much cynism and mockery here. And it always boils down to the same thing.
People do not want even a playmode on which the Brig & Sloop would have +1 more cannon each side.
Let the old version in the game still. I give a damn. Make the Galleon more manueverably I give a damn.
But to deny the smaller ships the cannons forever and come up with all kinds of progamers forever chewing through casuals to justify that, is just annoying.
Even I win most fights on the Sloop and I do not identify "as a pro".
.
Yeah the Galleon sinks fast.
If it takes shots. And it shoots much more in the same time if handled right.
As if that holds not true for the smaller ships either.
What are all these wierd comparisations all the time?!
Thanks to the Galleons higher stationed deck which enable shots all over the deck of the smaller ships, at least one crewmate can run below deck all the time, or else they might just get shot off or shot down directly.
And one dood should always be able to bucket and repair.
The cannons of the Galleon are just worth more, its just what it is.
Even with the numbers they have - thanks to their higher station, they are also a bit more dangerous.
" Oooh ooh but Galleon sinks sooo fast. "
So does any ship who's Crew got either knocked off or killed entirely either luckily or in a controlled manner.
Just let this topic sink to oblivion already.
I cannot bare to look at it anymore.
@mostexpendable
Strategy can only take people so far. There's a level of hardware capability (FPS), personal ability, personal commitment, and team-unity that are required.
Though you say, "Avoid the broadside." If you count the number of times the galleon pulls ahead with an experienced crew, and forces you to maneuver with their bloody boarding cannoneering, or the brig manages to take the side wind and pull you in with their harpoon, it isn't the broadside alone to worry about.
My personal combats with any ship larger than the sloop has the same issue. I cannot compete with the number difference in a manner where I will clearly gain an advantage to win the day. Because crew = multiplicative power. (HP, guns, throwables/sec, I could go on...)
If, for a possible example, this were implemented in the manner so that all ships had a cannon count equivalent to their max crew count, all ships have a 'potential' of 100% firepower rating that can only be decreased with crew deaths. Would rather see that number for your crew than what was detailed above being 50%/66%. - Because if a galleon has the power and the armor and the speed and the harpoon turn, we're not on par to battle them 2 v 4 or 1 v 4 in a fair, dependable manner. (on the bell curve of gamer skill)
< Consider these thoughts:
@amendelwyr I won’t argue with any of that. It’s so hard and even a few moments of bad luck can ruin the best laid plans...
All I’ll say is that if you gave skilled sloop players like my teammate and I (who rely on good positioning and out-helming our opposition, while nailing more shots from a distance than our enemies) an EXTRA CANNON. We would be entirely Overpowered.
If you’re worried now, wait until the sea is filled with OP sloops. I imagine that skill gap will just hurt mid-range players even more…
@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
@tenriak
Too late too personal I won't read such a stretched out dialogue anymore.
Saw too much cynism and mockery here. And it always boils down to the same thing.
Your answer isn't more cannons. The sloop doesn't need them and doesn't have the crew for it.
The sloop needs a speed buff so it can be the weakest, but fastest ship.
Here's a Sea of Thieves partner on how much the sloop sucks.
@tenriak said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
The sloop needs a speed buff so it can be the weakest, but fastest ship.
The sloop does NOT need a speed buff. It's already the easiest to use, the most maneuverable, requires the least amount of crew, is the slowest to sink, has the easiest PvE, etc.
@galactic-geek said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
@tenriak said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
The sloop needs a speed buff so it can be the weakest, but fastest ship.
The sloop does NOT need a speed buff. It's already the easiest to use, the most maneuverable, requires the least amount of crew, is the slowest to sink, has the easiest PvE, etc.
Are you a part of the crew that sticks all those aspects in the advantage column without regard to their negative effects?
The sloop can't get any where in a reasonable time or win a race. So keep on pretending your sloop is good while maneuvering by yourself with the least amount of crew / cannons / masts / speed / spawned resources while a stationary skelly knocks you off your wheel into the water.
I imagine you are good, Galactic Geek, and can often take sloops beyond their ability.
I couldn't care less what Pace thinks about sloops, he is good with his gally crews alright but not so much on a sloop maybe. Ask beardageddon or phuzzy bond what they think of the sloop. For every streamer that moans about them you'll find two more that love 'em..
@Tenriak Your ignorance shines through - you cannot be knocked off of your ship while on an interactable. If you are on an interactable, you can only be knocked off of the interactable. If you aren't on an interactable, only then can you be knocked overboard.
Pace, in the video, makes the case that a good galleon will beat a sloop. But here's the thing - a galleon is a ship; an object. It can't be good at anything. Its crew on the other hand - that's another story. A good crew can beat another crew, certainly, but at that point we're no longer talking about the ships are we? A ship is only as good as its crew, and although we can hypothesize all day about crews being equal, it's a simple fact that no crew is created equal. There's always a bigger fish, and at some point, even the bigger fish can still make mistakes.
Pace thinks sloops are bad because he is bad on sloops. Sorry but that is straight up fact. He is too dependent on his crew mates and he is too heavily vested in boarding.
"rabble rabble rabble pace is god rabble rabble" - No he is not. He has a good crew. Alone that man can't do anything against a good crew. Not many people can honestly. At that point if you are up against a competent crew what matters most isn't your Player vs Player abilities, its your naval abilities.
Who knows Pace might be really good at naval (but I would lean towards him being garbage at it), however, like I said his go to strat is heavy boarding only because his crew is there to pick up the slack.
My crew and I went against Pace when FoTD dropped. DAY of we ran into him running a sloop and he couldn't sink us. We had him and another galleon and a brig fighting us. On a sloop he couldn't do anything because again all he did was try to board repeatedly. His cannon shots were on point and while having to handle that and 2 other ships he may have actually sank us if he kept firing but he repeatedly tried to board.
There are players WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Pace and his crew on sloops especially solo sloops because its all they do. When it comes to this game experience is really freaking important. You don't learn if you never do. A lot of players down play the importance of naval because they think boarding is number 1 all time strat. Its not. You can sink boats purely by shooting and no amount of bucketing will save you once you reach critical mass.
It might sound like logic for you but increasing the cannon count is not going to work out as well as you think it is.
You take the advice of what players are giving you and saying that they are trolling or you say that PvP'ers have ill will and yada yada.
As I mentioned before a lot of this game is based on experience and you don't learn if you don't do. I would suggest going out and PvP'ing. Go attack brigs, go attack Galleons. You are going to lose A LOT in the beginning. If you get stuck in that mentality "god theres just nothing anyone can do. the players that say they win are just going against noobs that don't know how to do anything" - then look for the solo sloopers that stream.
I would suggest MixelPxl. Arguably from what I can see the best solo slooper in SoT hands down. I've played against that guy MANY times in Arena and have run into him in adventure and that guy is DANGEROUS. I'm more afraid of this guy solo than I am of most Galleons. I'm more afraid of that guy on a sloop than I would be if Pace and cobbobles were on a sloop.
There are a lot of nuances in naval combat and using the sloop. I argue this point with one of my crewmates. In my crew I am the best at the wheel and probably only slightly better than everyone else on cannons, (except one guy for some reason if its long lobs this man is king but he misses close shots lol), but back to my point. I have a crew mate that tries to take wheel and he is bad. In his mind and a lot of other players in this game there is only 3 directions on the wheel, full left, center, full right.
A lot of players can't get into a death spiral without having to correct the wheel constantly for over rotation. Its one of the reasons why so many ships that go in a circle end up ramming the ship they are trying to circle.
By constantly running you are removing any chance you have of actually learning how to be at the wheel. No offense but I could guarantee you probably are horrible at the wheel, most players are, and the wheel is SOOOOOO important.
The only time I ever get caught by ships is when my mast gets glitched. I have not been caught by a Galleon or Brig under normal circumstances. The mast has to get glitched for me to get caught.
I know wall of text, but there really is a lot to learn.
Balance for the game wouldn't work by increasing cannon count on the brig or sloop. You are arguing against this because the Galleon has an extra cannon for full use but you are changing the game heavily for one instance ignoring that not every fight is ship vs Galleon.
If anything the only thing that remotely sounds reasonable is removing a cannon from the Galleon instead of adding one to the other ships but even then its still a balance issue against the brig and even the sloop.
You might believe differently however since you run a lot and/or don't like PvP, we have more experience on the balance portion. Lots of PvP'ers use the sloop and if the suggestion made sense we would be all over it. PvP'ers love being able to kill things easier so the fact that they are disagreeing with you should tell you something.
@wagstr said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
I couldn't care less what Pace thinks about sloops, he is good with his gally crews alright but not so much on a sloop maybe. Ask beardageddon or phuzzy bond what they think of the sloop. For every streamer that moans about them you'll find two more that love 'em.
Exactly. You don't just go to Pace for his opinion on the Sloop when he just doesn't play on the Sloop enough to have a reasonable knowledge of the ship and it's strengths.
This is like asking a double gunner pro on how to use the sword... You are way better off asking a player who regularly uses the sword.
@xultanis-dragon said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
There are players WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Pace and his crew on sloops especially solo sloops because its all they do. When it comes to this game experience is really freaking important. You don't learn if you never do. A lot of players down play the importance of naval because they think boarding is number 1 all time strat. Its not. You can sink boats purely by shooting and no amount of bucketing will save you once you reach critical mass.
I'll be honest though, boarding is fun to do if you get a chance to do it. You don't just keep trying repeatedly, but rather wait until you can jump from ship to ship to do it. I think trying repeatedly by firing yourself out and using the ladder just doesn't work at all, and a waste of time. Better to stay on the cannon until you see a really good opportunity to get aboard, like you just killed the crew and want to take some of their supplies and maybe even kill them upon respawn to ensure ship sunk, or because they rammed you, giving you a great chance to get rid of the crew while your crew repair, you loot theirs, drop their anchor, and get back on your own ship.
Basically, board when you have a great opportunity only as it can greatly benefit you for doing so. Otherwise, stick to naval combat.
I've watched Beardageddon sink good gally crews more times than I care to remember. I've watched him battle solo against 2/3 ships in an alliance, i've seen him put up epic battles for an hour or more before he gets sunk and gives gg's. He's a Sea of Champions sloop winner. He also nearly always cannons over for a friendly chat first to gauge them out. His opinions on the sloop would hold more weight than Pace22's..
I think I already said it, that in a completely even match, the crew with a higher number of players has a higher chance of winning.
This should be by design.
The main argument is that a game designer may favour making the most amount of people happy in an encounter. So, all things being equal, especially skill, they may prefer if four people were happy with the outcome of a match (by winning) instead of two.
Seriously, if you want even matches then go play Arena. That mode could use some fresh meat anyway.
@touchiertooth28
As @Galactic-Geek said there is very rarely such a thing as an even match and every crew makes mistakes or has bad luck sometimes.
In my previous comment I was speaking hypothetically & I'm aware that skill is different to performance.
When Starcraft 2 came out, I was really interested in its ranking system which also claims that the true "skill" is never pinpointed. It also acknowledged concepts of "uncertainty" and "match performance".
I'm linking it here. I can't claim to understand the math completely, and although I know that SoT doesn't have any kind of system like this, and that the presence of supplies and all the random encounters that can happen make it difficult or impossible to ever really pinpoint true "skill", it still has really good concepts to keep in mind when talking about balance and ways to model player behaviour.
@wagstr said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
@touchiertooth28
As @Galactic-Geek said there is very rarely such a thing as an even match and every crew makes mistakes or has bad luck sometimes.
Especially with how hitreg is, there is a lot of luck in fights. Plus, even if the crew are even, then the advantages and disadvantages of the ships themselves still need to be taken into account, since the numbers don't matter in that situation anyways. You won't be able to board a good crew at all, so it will come down to the ships and resources in that case. Plus a good Sloop crew will know to use it's advantages to play around the good galleon crew to avoid broadside as much as possible (which again, makes the number of crew more meaningless).
So, yeah. Base on this, the Brig is the weakest ship due to having more disadvantages than actual advantages and Galleon is arguably the best but a Sloop is still very strong in this game, so I wouldn't be surprise if a Sloop wins against a Galleon.
No one is contesting that a good crew can beat a bad crew via any ship.
Ship balance needs to be applied with the assumption that both crews will operate optimally.
Again, the advice here is simply beat them with tdm.
Skill at tdm has nothing to do with the power level of the sloop.
You can be tdm gods who work exceptionally well as a team and you would be better serviced by a brig in nearly all situations including pursuing a sloop against the wind.
This is because the sloop is weak and under balanced.
Rare did a great job of making plenty of room for mistakes. Avoiding these mistakes is a testament to your skill level, not the strength of the sloop.
In all honesty I think you are taking your own difficulties and inability to get the best out of a sloop (like most of us to a greater or lesser extent) and applying this to everybody. To master all of these ships takes hundreds of hours. To be a really good gally crew they all need to be not only proficient in all the roles but familiar with each other and work as a crew.
You keep talking about the sloops weaknesses but clearly do not fully understand it's strengths. You just don't get the balance yet.
Sloop = easiest to board and anchor (ladder 1 step from anchor)
Sloop = easiest to board and kill wheelperson (again, 1 step)
Sloop = easiest to demobilize from range due to single mast
I don’t know that any of that needs changing, but I do agree with you on cannons.
Galleon gets a cannon on each side for each crewmember, so should the brig and the sloop!
@vartan said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
Sloop = easiest to board and anchor (ladder 1 step from anchor)
Sloop = easiest to board and kill wheelperson (again, 1 step)
Sloop = easiest to demobilize from range due to single mast
I don’t know that any of that needs changing, but I do agree with you on cannons.
Galleon gets a cannon on each side for each crewmember, so should the brig and the sloop!
Alternatively, the sloop and brig can remain unchanged, and the galleon gets reduced to 3 cannons to make them match across the board.
@tenriak said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:
No one is contesting that a good crew can beat a bad crew via any ship.
Ship balance needs to be applied with the assumption that both crews will operate optimally.
Again, the advice here is simply beat them with tdm.
Skill at tdm has nothing to do with the power level of the sloop.
You can be tdm gods who work exceptionally well as a team and you would be better serviced by a brig in nearly all situations including pursuing a sloop against the wind.
This is because the sloop is weak and under balanced.
Rare did a great job of making plenty of room for mistakes. Avoiding these mistakes is a testament to your skill level, not the strength of the sloop.
Thank you for the sloop buff. It is well deserved.
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