Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.

@ajm123
But, see, boarding a sloop isn't as hard as most people think. Boarding any ship isn't. That's why it is so meta in the PvP space. A single boarding action cripples a ship so much more than cannons.

And that's also why people sail on Brigs more and more, because a side-wind can be used to catch ANY ship. You might not sail directly at a ship, but you will eventually catch them.

Rare's balance is screwed up. A man shoots two guns and you're instantly out of the fight and at the mercy of your computer's/console's hardware.

What people also don't seem to consider is how problematic having a single mast in the face of two - four chainshots per second coming toward you is.

You can't outsail and win a naval action if you have no sail.

@amendelwyr said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

What people also don't seem to consider is how problematic having a single mast in the face of two - four chainshots per second coming toward you is.

You can't outsail and win a naval action if you have no sail.

In my experience, catching the mast and repairing it on a sloop is fairly quick, even as a solo. The biggest issue is if you can't defend your ladders at this time and if the enemy crew is capable of following up with shots immediately after snapping your mast. However, many of the times that my mast has been snapped are where the enemy crew is not facing my broadside and is either facing the aft or bow. This makes it pretty difficult for them to get follow up shots that are going to prevent my repair.

Again, solo sloop is hard compared to the other ways of playing.

@odyssee-mit-tee you’re free to do what you want man. But to me, your entire argument sounds like a vehement defence of bad sportsmanship.

People take the idea of “their hard-work” going to someone else so seriously. No matter what, we’ve got to give Rare props for their ability to create a game that people have such strong reactions too.

@odyssee-mit-tee The Galleon is a warship. It makes up for it's sluggishness with brute force

@odyssee-mit-tee If you'd like to discuss overpoweredness on the galleon, I'd like you to find a full crew and chase me and fight on my sloop. Then your "maneuverability doesnt matter" argument will bite ya.

Learn how to play the game stop crying. Use the environment, if you’re being chased, you’re leading.
1 Harpoons don’t work in open water
2 it’s fairly easy to stay out of the broadside of larger ships on sloop if you know how to manage your sails.
If a galleon is sails up completely spinning with you, use a different tactic, anchor ball, weary ball, there are tools in the game that can help you.
3 if you weren’t such a brat that blames everything around you for why you aren’t succeeding, and had a shred of problem solving skills
(3a) you would probably have more friends, or people who could tolerate playing with you and use one of your so called over powered galleons.
(3b) or you would be able to figure out how to use the tools given and the world around you to give you a situational advantage or not be on the broadside of a ship with more firepower.
4 majority of SOT partners and skilled players pvp on sloops and do a good amount of sinking larger crews.

It’s not the ship that you don’t know how to use, it’s you

@torski87 said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

1 Harpoons don’t work in open water

This is a false statement. Probably one of the most used device by my crews in overtaking enemy ships, Skeleton ships, and pulling players off their boat and killing them.

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

@mostexpendable sagte in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

@odyssee-mit-tee you’re free to do what you want man. But to me, your entire argument sounds like a vehement defence of bad sportsmanship.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww it is bad sportsmanship? =(
I say it is to spawnkill someone on their wrecked ship and call them gleeful stuff over the hotmic! =)
But even to stay "professionally silent" while the GANK repeatedly kills the inferior numbers.

That is just not impressive man! =D
Man it really is true the sated worldviews of the people who are used to prevail are everywhere.
BUT GOD FORBID the weaklings, the unconfident and the scared one's A SINGLE WAY OUT of their misery!
A single way to protect their lunchmoney!
A single way to stay safe out there!
Or at least not be food for the bandits, murderers and bullies. =)
" That is bad sportsmanship! "

BAH - as usual earning others peoples public approval is just not worth anything!
People love the laws of the fittest and violence that is the true Human nature.

" It is just a videogame man! Stop overreacting! "
YES it is! =)
And then why are people "overreacting" at the red Sea, huh?
Why do they demand what their slow bottoms were just too slow and sluggish to catch?

It is so disgusting to see how people call it bad sports when others do not want to let them beat up!
But no compromise! No middle ground! OOOOH NOOOO!!
Give them something they might want?
To be a bit more confident?
NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Yeah then - enjoy the sh°tshow. Action & reactions go in all directions.

People take the idea of “their hard-work” going to someone else so seriously.

Yeah, its so wierd that people dislike the idea of being regular slaves and victims for others, I know.

Thing is: Even virtuality is a form of reality.
And the final result will "never be just a game" since the feelings and emotions are real!
Reminds me of good old times.
When my irl friends and me played on consoles with splitscreens.

Sometimes we had to stop cause we wanted to beat each other up irl because of it. =)
Good old times.
There is no complete maturing out of this "childish state".
Why are people overly competitive, in a competitive game hmmm geez I wonder why? :D
.

But in general;
One thing is probably getting a little forgotten when I look at all these "clueless winners" here in the forum!
Those who cannot understand why "Shroudsailers" take their hard work so serious.

Cause even the "losers" have their pride!
They are not just dumb mobs who exist to be anybodys food.
And it is no fun for them to lose progress and give it to a RANDOM NOBODY just because they themself are worse in PvP.

The entitlement man! =)
People demand respect who have no gratitude.
Winners do not exist because they have somehow earned their advantages.
They exist because others could not earn this advantage.

Winners do only exist 'because of Losers'.
And if anyone wants the Losers to stop running, you gotta give them something for it.
Or it won't happen! =)
It won't happen!

What a stale, spiteful discussion it always is to talk about the red Sea or read others talking about it.
Not that I am using it myself so often. Maybe once in... pffffffff... about three or four months or so.
And only if the stars allign and I "see the signs" I do not want to see.
The stuff that makes me give up maybe too early even, who knows?
Not that I care.

I just want one more cannon the Brig & Sloop cause I find this part of the Pirate game the most epic.
When the cannons keep blasting the sh°t out of something!!!!!!
And the battles are epic and breathtaking!!!!!!!!!!!!

But the Sloop is a one armed man in a boxbattle! It looks pitiful! It looks pathetic!
And the Brig is also a little handicapped in the end.
Thanks god it is not just the Sloop!! :D
It would annoy the hell out of me!

The Galleon is fine.
It is not sluggish or heavy at all.
Especially when it is not trying to chase.
When it turns slowy towards the incoming ships, this is when it is at its strongest.
So that they remain in the Gallys broadside.

At least the Brig can run in all directions.
But the Sloops fate is truly decided by fate and by whatever direction the wind is blowing.
Which feels strangely nice actually for me.
I like the idea that I do not struggle unnecessarily after all and let only fate decide.

Bad sportsmanship. What a joke.
In a game with uneven numbers and uneven weaponry.
Yeah that dumb lightweight has only themself to blame for ending up between mid- and heavyweights, right?
HOW DARE THEY RUN! =D

This is the true battle of Sea of Thieves.
The battle for fairness which will never be achieved.
Even two cannons won't change that the Sloop still has only a single mast that needs to be shot over.

But damn two cannons with a max-crew of two people... woooow that scares the Crews exceeding two crewslots apparently so much!

Dude, put the goal posts wherever you like them.
No matter what, I love your passion.
You’re a fun read. Have a good one out there!

@amendelwyr said in Why the cannon count on the existing player-ships are a problem.:

What people also don't seem to consider is how problematic having a single mast in the face of two - four chainshots per second coming toward you is.

You can't outsail and win a naval action if you have no sail.

No, I think people do understand this. That’s why so much of this game is about strategy.

Avoid a galleons broadside like your life depends on it. If it’s chasing you. Turn quickly and force them into your broadside. Cripple them with chain-ys or an anchor ball.

Circle round in front or behind. Shoot from a wide arc - they’re a big target. You’re a small one. Use that.

Or sail past a fort. And cripple them with stationary towers or a keg. Then bring your ship back to finish them off.

There’s always options.

Play to your strengths. Know your weaknesses. No one is saying it’s easy!

But it can be fun.

This ignores that the Sloop is hard to sink, is extremely nimble, and can escape pretty much any Galleon crew by sailing into the wind. As someone who almost exclusively plays on a two-man Sloop, the Galleon having extra cannons is not as damaging as you might think.

If I were to fight a Galleon in which all crew members were operating cannons, that would be the ideal scenario for me to board, anchor, kill the crew, hide on the ship, and cause more havoc. If you want to use a Galleon, you need to have a crew that is fully competent and knowledgeable. If that is the case, you're probably going to lose regardless just because of the 4 player advantage. As this is rarely the case (most people can't PvP very well), the Galleon isn't really a desirable ship for most people.

Not to mention that the Galleon is a massive target that can be hit by a Sloop even with extremely violent waves.

As someone who is relatively good at PvP (if I do say so myself) with a crew that is very good at PvP (top 200 reaper), I can honestly say I very rarely get nervous seeing a Galleon coming towards me.

The sloop sucks. I would happily accept and use its shittiness if it could ever actually catch any one.

As it stands now, sloops just have to watch emissary galleons fade into the distance as reapers brigs fly by it at warp 9.

God forbid you chase another sloop who aligns away from you. Then you get to sail into a strait line while crawling across the map at the slowest speed of all the boats while fending off boarders.

Why isnt the sloop the fastest? Its out gunned, out crewed, and not that much more maneuverable. It takes the most damage from chain shot, its design allows you to be knocked from the wheel into the water, and its ladders place boarders next to the anchor.

All that, and it cant catch anything without some tactical play. Tactical plays that would all likely benefit more from a brig or galleon.

Make the sloop fastest.

@tenriak the Sloop has the advantage of lead. You sail into the wind, other ships have to chase you. This gives you the opportunity to lead them to areas that benefit you, it gives you the opportunity to continuously board and harass their crew, it gives you the opportunity to create huge distance between yourself and the crew chasing you.

God forbid you chase another sloop who aligns away from you. Then you get to sail into a strait line while crawling across the map at the slowest speed of all the boats while fending off boarders.

This is true for literally every ship type. If a Galleon chases a Galleon, if a Brig chases a Brig, if a Sloop chases a Sloop. However, if a Sloop chases a Galleon, it can catch it. The sloop has that advantage. The speed against wind is a balancing mechanic that favours the Sloop.

Why isnt the sloop the fastest? Its out gunned, out crewed, and not that much more maneuverable. It takes the most damage from chain shot, its design allows you to be knocked from the wheel into the water, and its ladders place boarders next to the anchor.

The Sloop's maneuverability is MASSIVE compared to other ships. A Sloop can be managed entirely by one person, no other ship can. The ladders next to the anchor mean that the Sloop crew can steer and watch for boarders with great efficiency. It also means everything you need to manage on the Sloop can be done without traversing the ship.

@loaf-cat1384
Because a galleon cant be managed by one person does not make the sloop more maneuverable.

You missed the point of the sloop vs sloop speed thing.

The sloop cant catch a brig, the sloop cant catch a galleon, the sloop cant catch a sloop. Why use the ship ever?

The only good reason to use a sloop is "I want to play by myself."

@tenriak

Because a galleon cant be managed by one person does not make the sloop more maneuverable.

It makes it far more manageable. It is INHERENTLY more manoeuvrable. This isn't really an opinion-based thing. It's just true.

The sloop cant catch a brig, the sloop cant catch a galleon, the sloop cant catch a sloop. Why use the ship ever?

The Sloop can catch a Brig going against the wind, the Sloop can catch a Galleon against the wind. The Sloop can maintain speed with another Sloop. If you're experienced, chasing a Sloop as another Sloop really isn't an impossible task, especially if the other crew isn't so knowledgeable.

The only good reason to use a sloop is "I want to play by myself."

I use the Sloop every time I play with my crewmate. I don't remember the last time our ship was successfully sunk by another player, but in 2 days, we've sunk 2 Galleons, 3 Brigs, and several Sloops. It is extremely beneficial that I can manage the ship by myself whilst my crewmate continues to board and cause havoc on enemy ships.

All of the situations you pointed out would benefit more from a brig.

@tenriak

All of the situations you pointed out would benefit more from a brig.

This is simply not true.

Is the Brig more manoeuvrable? No.
Is the Brig manageable by 1 person? No.
Is the Brig able to catch a Sloop against the wind? No.
Is the Brig the easiest ship to sink? Yes.

As a Sloop, there is always a way for you to flee combat. As a Brig, you don't have that luxury. A Galleon can catch you with the wind, and a Sloop can catch you against the wind.

@loaf-cat1384

You'll have to see reason and admit that brigs incorrectly running from sloops against the wind is not a point in favor of the sloop in terms of ship balance.

Balance is about capability. A brig is capable of getting away from a sloop every time by turning with the wind at all or simply already being in wind same is true for a galleon.
When it comes to cannons, players, and mast hit points, the brig is the clear winner.

While you can make tighter turns in the sloop, this maneuverability is severely diminished by the single mast, and harpoons for all.

I've seen open sea mentioned in regards to the harpoons. You can still harpoon other ships in the open sea turning you tighter than any sloop. While I must admit, the sloop is more maneuverable, this doesn't matter if you cant get to another ship and if they let you catch them, they deny your one advantage by using their harpoons correctly. You didnt catch those brigs because you were in a sloop. You caught them in spite of being in a sloop.

@tenriak your points are all moot.

A brig is capable of getting away from a sloop every time by turning into the wind at all or simply already being in wind same is true for a galleon.

This is true in reverse. The Sloop can evade a Brig and a Galleon by turning into the wind.

While you can make tighter turns in the sloop, this maneuverability is severely diminished by the single mast, and harpoons for all.

This doesn't even make sense. The single mast is only an issue in that it isn't as fast, and that if it breaks, the sloop will slowly come to a stop (which can be avoided by repairing the mast immediately anyway).

OBVIOUSLY, the Sloop has disadvantages like every other ship. That's just how balance works. You mentioning a few disadvantages of the Sloop in response to me listing some advantages shows that it's well-balanced against the other ships. We can list benefits and detriments of each ship type.

While I must admit, the sloop is more maneuverable, this doesn't matter if you cant get to another ship and if they let you catch them, they deny your one advantage by using their harpoons correctly.

This isn't even an argument. The Sloop has a mechanic that other ships can deny if they're competent. Okay? And? That's just the better crew winning.

You didnt catch those brigs because you were in a sloop. You caught them in spite of being in a sloop.

Nope. We sailed into the wind so they continued to chase us, meaning we had the freedom to board and harass their crew, eventually anchoring them, turning around, and sinking them.

Every single ship has the ability to win any one fight. They are well balanced. The only important factor in combat is crew size and crew ability. If my friend and I can successfully take out crews of 3 and 4 with relative consistency, it's a sign to me that the Sloop is well-balanced.

The difference of speed of ships against the wind is rather small, while the difference in speed where sloop is slowest is quite large.
Chasing in a sloop vs another vessel ? I'd rather be stuck on Old Faithful digging up chests with scores of ocean crawlers each dig.

@loaf-cat1384

You haven't named a single sloop advantage.

Again, you beat them with tdm in spite of sailing a sloop.

@tenriak you're either being intentionally obtuse because you're stubborn to concede, or you're just not reading what I've said.

Advantages of the Sloop:

• It is the most manoeuvrable ship.

• It can be managed entirely by 1 crewmate.

• Cannonball barrels are placed perfectly for gunners.

• It is the smallest target.

• It has fewer places to be sunk (the Brig sinks the fastest).

These are all advantages that are unique to the Sloop. Every ship has unique advantages and disadvantages. This is why they are so well balanced. The fact that any combination of ships can result in any either side winning is good.

This means that victories are more often than not decided by crew ability. Obviously, all things equal, a 4-person crew will likely win against a 2-person crew (or more often than not, a stalemate). This is a result of manpower, not ship design.

@lem0n-curry

The difference of speed of ships against the wind is rather small, while the difference in speed where sloop is slowest is quite large.

I don't view this as an inherently negative fact of the game. The Sloop being unable to catch a Galleon with the wind is probably a good thing. In most instances, it is the Galleon doing the chasing. Whilst the Sloop's top speed against the wind will not match the top speed of a Galleon with the wind, it makes up for it by a) having the leading advantage and b) being able to make sharper turns to throw the Galleon crew off.

@odyssee-mit-tee Regardless of cannons it's always going to be the more experienced crew that wins.

@odyssee-mit-tee

I am very aware that many pro-gamers are people who are unable to make many friends.

Too introverted, which makes them play their videogames even longer.

Which makes them master them even more to a certain degree.

Which gives them many experiences of "granduer" in all kinds of forms.

This explains this thread. You're angry that there are people better than you. Anything you say trying to claim otherwise is just going to be laughed away.

If I am able to win fights against experienced crews as a 2-person crew, then it probably indicates that the ship balance is, at the very least, balanced well enough. It's just not true that the team with the biggest crew will always win. As I've said previously, I exclusively use the Sloop as a two-person crew. I do not remember the last time we were sunk by another player ship, whether it was a Sloop, Brig, or Galleon.

Unfortunately, it's just a reality that if two evenly matched crews face one another, the bigger crew is likely going to win. That's just how balance works. If you're losing battles to other Sloops however, chances are you're just not as skilled at the game as you wish you were.

There are good PvP players in this game. Most people aren't. I've replied several times to this thread explaining in detail how the Sloop balancing works effectively. You can go and read those if you'd like to engage in this discussion maturely.

If you resort to "Good players have no life" comments, don't be surprised when people start responding with "Just get good."