Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers

@capt-pilotes And why should a sloop feel more vulnerable against larger ships? Because they are bigger? So I repeat again, this is not an argument. It does not even carry any basis. Even according to the mathematical formula that I gave, a duosloop will have a 50% chance of winning, and a solo - 35-40%. agree For a galleon, the chance to win 60% is quite high, and there is no oppression of players as such.
Here we even spread a scenario in which a sloop can "effectively" fight against a galleon. You will find the answer on page 4.
As for tasks, reapers who have pumped the 5th degree of emissary need 15 minutes to come to you from any corner of the map. Therefore, stretching the task from 30 minutes to 2 hours is unnecessary.
As for the complaint system, it is designed for greater comfort for both players and developers. I give a clear example. When you swim, do you constantly record the screen? Probably not. Therefore, when you encounter any violation, you need to turn on the recording in order to provide evidence in the complaint later. By the time you turn on this violation, it may already be over. Then you won't swim to this violator and tell him "you can repeat, I want to record a video of the complaint.
The developers can take my idea and conduct tests, if the data shows that I am right, then they do not need your permission to make changes to the game.
We have already discussed all this, you can browse and read.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@gipperseadog Your statement that the constant struggle with the effects and not with the cause is absurd. This is a constant waste of resources. It is better to eliminate the problem once and spend the rest of the resource on something else. It is much more productive. This is the law of our life as a whole that always works. And always in our life we ​​struggle with the causes and not the consequences.

I'm not sure if that post should be directed at me Dex, you may want to check as i'm not involved in that thread.
Cheers!

@gipperseadog You left a comment and I decided to answer it. I'm not dragging you into the discussion, that's your right, I just gave my comment on your comment.

Sea of Thieves is a team sport. Galleons have a team of four. Brigantines have a team of three. Sloops have a team of two, or often one.

In hockey, when a player commits a penalty and is put in the box, the other team has the advantage because they have more players on the ice. Near the end of the game, the losing team will often pull their goalie to have the player advantage. No one expects the team with less players on the ice to score a goal, that's what makes it more exciting when it happens.

More players is better in team sports.

Yes, bigger ships have an innate crew advantage over smaller ships. That is the game. If a player chooses to sail alone instead of with a team, that is the risk they are taking. Open crew is possible; not great, but possible. The official Sea of Thieves Discord will help you find a crew. No one is forcing you to sail alone, it is a choice. No one is forcing you to engage in PVP against that galleon, it is a choice. (Run, scuttle, fight, it's up to you.)

The Sea of Thieves design, scope, and intention is that every pirate have access to the same tools to create their adventure with. You can choose to sail with one, two, or three other pirates. If you believe that galleons are unbalanced, then go sail on a galleon with three other pirates! The ships are tools. They have different speeds, different cannons, different anchor and sail times; strengths and weaknesses.

Sea of Thieves is a team sport. If you choose to sail as a team one one, that's your adventure.

@awakebloom80228 said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex

And I choose to not play.

I’ll play other games that fully support solo players with multiplayer modes exclusively for parties of one.

That is my adventure.

That is your prerogative. I hope it makes you happy.

@lordqulex With hockey, the comparison is inappropriate, and I repeat, why did everyone decide that if the team is bigger, it should have more chances to win? because there are more of them? - this is not an argument, I repeat once again. No one has given you a single argument with a detailed analysis of why it is bad to increase the productivity of a sloop. And when you all say "Because I think so" it's not an argument, you don't have any analytical component. Even all those advantages that you mentioned earlier, I analytically described why they do not work. Why is everyone who argues with me labeled an insider? Did they give you instructions on how to answer on the forums?

@awakebloom80228 I am very glad that you have found the right path for you and are enjoying it.

@foambreaker Or maybe you're a troll. And why do you decide who goes to my post. I am for freedom of speech and everyone can say what they want and where they want. And it doesn't matter if he is right in something or not. He has the right to this and no one is able to close his mouth if someone does not like what is said

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex With hockey, the comparison is inappropriate, and I repeat, why did everyone decide that if the team is bigger, it should have more chances to win? because there are more of them? - this is not an argument, I repeat once again. No one has given you a single argument with a detailed analysis of why it is bad to increase the productivity of a sloop. And when you all say "Because I think so" it's not an argument, you don't have any analytical component. Even all those advantages that you mentioned earlier, I analytically described why they do not work. Why is everyone who argues with me labeled an insider? Did they give you instructions on how to answer on the forums?

Yes, I have given you detailed analysis of why it is bad to increase the productivity of a loop, and I will do so again. It's called game design and game theory.

Sea of Thieves is a game. The developers have decided on a "tools not rules" paradigm to allow its players to create their own adventures. Ships are a tool. Galleons are bigger, turn slower, and require more pirates to sail effectively. Sloops are smaller, nimbler, and can be sailed alone if that is your chosen adventure. Galleons have more cannons to accommodate more crew, the same goes for the number of handles on the capstan. But cannons, again, are a tool; they have the same reload speed, the same fire rate, the same muzzle velocity on every ship.

The sloop already raises its anchor, and its sails, much faster than the galleon. This allows it to turn even faster than the galleon, which grants it an easier time to navigate cluttered terrain than the galleon. Escaping in Sea of Thieves requires a lot of tactical awareness: how to break line of sight, where you can sail that they can't, the advantages and disadvantages of each ship class. The sloop is easier to keep afloat than the galleon. One person with one bucket can keep it up when it is mostly filled with holes. But when a galleon is mid deck and filling up fast, if you don't have three buckets and one repairer it's going to sink. In this way the ships are balanced.

And again, if you consider Sea of Thieves as a single player game, it would still have galleons and brigantines and sloops sailing with you. They each represent a different level of difficulty for the player: easy, challenging, hard. This presents you, the player, with a choice: risk sailing closer to that galleon near Sanctuary Outpost to turn in, or turn around and go to Daggertooth which will take longer, but may be safer. This is a game and a game is about making choices and experiencing the repercussions of those choices. If Rare "balances the ships" in the way that you are recommending, all the variable difficulty in the game disappears and players lose the option to choose their voyage, they lose all the variability of the risk and reward paradigm.

Different ships with larger crews and variable difficulty add depth and variability to the game, and your suggestion to "level the playing field" as it were also levels the difficulty scale, homogenizing the game experience. Games with more depth are better than shallow, repetitive games.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@foambreaker Or maybe you're a troll. And why do you decide who goes to my post. I am for freedom of speech and everyone can say what they want and where they want. And it doesn't matter if he is right in something or not. He has the right to this and no one is able to close his mouth if someone does not like what is said

The mods cut his posts from the thread, so...

@lordqulex Let me help you turn on Analytical Powers " Increasing the speed of the cannon will cause..." Continue. And the fact that you say that different ships in our game have different parameters - I know this, and I have already written more than once that at the moment there is an imbalance in this. I liked how you described such a component as wind. Even there you somehow agreed that there is an imbalance. You say that game difficulty levels will disappear. So they will not disappear, the difficulty of the game will depend on the skill of the enemy. I will even give an example of the same thing, the default battle is fought by equal teams. Difficulties lie in the skills of the opponent. I also wrote about the fact that in some cases it is not possible to assemble a team.

@foambreaker I did not have time to see what he wrote there, if he offended someone, then it is correct that the moderators deleted the message. Mods are you here? I have a question: Do any of the developers go to the forum? It would be interesting to discuss with someone from your team. Only not so that they read, gave an answer and closed the topic, but so that it was a dialogue.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex Let me help you turn on Analytical Powers " Increasing the speed of the cannon will cause..." Continue. And the fact that you say that different ships in our game have different parameters - I know this, and I have already written more than once that at the moment there is an imbalance in this. I liked how you described such a component as wind. Even there you somehow agreed that there is an imbalance. You say that game difficulty levels will disappear. So they will not disappear, the difficulty of the game will depend on the skill of the enemy. I will even give an example of the same thing, the default battle is fought by equal teams. Difficulties lie in the skills of the opponent. I also wrote about the fact that in some cases it is not possible to assemble a team.

I'm sorry matie, but Google translate must have had one too many grogs because that reads like absolute gibberish in English...

Yes, I would make the sloop faster sailing into a crosswind, I think this would make the lives of solo players easier by evening out the point of sail options for each ship.

But after that, what is it exactly you're recommending?

Yes, the game increases in difficulty with the skill of the players, but again, if we consider the players NPCs, difficulty also increases with their numbers. Is it easier or harder to defeat one crab ocean crawler? Two? Three at a time? Let's pretend for a moment Rare is able to rank players into the popular, contemporary tiers: C, B, A, S. Let us say that there is a galleon over there filled with four S-Class pirates. Here I am, alone in my sloop, a C-Class pirate. What "balance" options could you possibly give me that gives me a 50/50 chance against that galleon? What tool-not-rule do you recommend to make that a serious possibility?

If you look at contemporary role playing games, the challenge rating system takes combatant number into account and you can read for days about something called the "action economy;" that's exactly what we're talking about here. The galleon has the advantage in combat because they have four players that can do four independent things. Why does that need to be balanced out? How could you possibly do so?

@lordqulex How to balance the fact that on a galleon 4 players perform 4 actions and on a sloop 1? It's simple - to change the speed of these actions. If you go higher, I have developed a system of equations, where I described the approximate calculation of the balance in ideal conditions. According to that formula, the chance of winning a solo sloop is 35-40%.
Skill balance is unnecessary! It will be exactly the difficulties you mentioned.
I'll paraphrase again. So that you provide a reasoned answer.
Let's imagine. Changed the reload speed. What specific negative consequences will this lead to?

@captain-coel Your statement that I lose a solo sloop is incorrect, I even sink a duo sloop. It is enough to shoot down with a cannon.
If you go back to page 4 you will find where I broke down the advice I was given on fighting the bigger ships.
You say that you have recently sunk larger ships. This does not represent general statistics. If you tell me how many times out of 100-1000 times you won? Such a sample will be a truer reflection.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex How to balance the fact that on a galleon 4 players perform 4 actions and on a sloop 1? It's simple - to change the speed of these actions. If you go higher, I have developed a system of equations, where I described the approximate calculation of the balance in ideal conditions. According to that formula, the chance of winning a solo sloop is 35-40%.
Skill balance is unnecessary! It will be exactly the difficulties you mentioned.
I'll paraphrase again. So that you provide a reasoned answer.
Let's imagine. Changed the reload speed. What specific negative consequences will this lead to?

The negative consequences is that it goes against the very nature of the game, and the design principals the development team laid out five years ago: tools not rules. The cannon is a tool. It acts the same on every ship, on every fortress, on every sea fort, everywhere. You want to change the rules of the game to balance a perceived unfairness between ships. I've already explained to you, the ships are not supposed to be balanced or fair in that manner—they represent different levels of difficulty due to the imbalance of the action economy.

@lordqulex An imaginary problem? How can it be imaginary, if when you shoot each other with cannons, the galleon puts more cores at you. If all the cannonballs are coming, you can't even fire back. At a distance, inflicting damage is not effective (I already described this earlier).
You say it goes against design principles. I ask what exactly will change.
Difficulties in combat should be the skill of the enemy, not the ship.
Look, if they even raise the reload speed, it will allow the sloop to take at least 1 shot at the galleon before being hit by a cannonball again. The galleon also has the option to shoot the boarder.
if you think about the principles of design, then the game has one principle - the battle for loot.
Let's not get into philosophy. I'm still asking you about the material component of the game, how exactly the battle will change.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex An imaginary problem? How can it be imaginary, if when you shoot each other with cannons, the galleon puts more cores at you. If all the cannonballs are coming, you can't even fire back. At a distance, inflicting damage is not effective (I already described this earlier).

Absolutely correct, that's called the action economy.

You say it goes against design principles. I ask what exactly will change.

Tools not rules will change. Cannons are a tool. Changing how the cannon fires based on what it's mounted on is a rule.

Difficulties in combat should be the skill of the enemy, not the ship.

Why not both? Does action economy and tactics mean nothing to you?

Look, if they even raise the reload speed, it will allow the sloop to take at least 1 shot at the galleon before being hit by a cannonball again. The galleon also has the option to shoot the boarder.
if you think about the principles of design, then the game has one principle - the battle for loot.
Let's not get into philosophy. I'm still asking you about the material component of the game, how exactly the battle will change.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@foambreaker I did not have time to see what he wrote there, if he offended someone, then it is correct that the moderators deleted the message. Mods are you here? I have a question: Do any of the developers go to the forum? It would be interesting to discuss with someone from your team. Only not so that they read, gave an answer and closed the topic, but so that it was a dialogue.

As a developer I can tell you that threads like this are ignored.

No one has time to read 5 or 6 pages of back and forth bickering.

Not too mention the original post is a wall of text. The posts that get read are the ones that get right to the point.

@lordqulex I want you to answer concretely, not superficial answers.
What difference does it make to a galleon that another galleon will come to it, and there will be gunfire from side to side, or it will be a sloop and there will also be a gunfight from side to side. The tactic in this can also be used as much as your imagination will suffice.
I gave on page 4 arguments why ships inevitably go side by side. And in this case, it's hard not to agree that the galleon just blows you away, that you can't stand near the cannon and your hp decreases every second.
And you are talking to me for some economy of action. I'll tell you directly which scenario is the most profitable when the two ships meet, what happens in this case, and what is the injustice here. And this injustice becomes a regularity.
I am asking you how things will change materially. That is, describe to me the scenario of the battle, indicate what are the negative components in it, and what the players will be able to do and what they will not be able to do.

@foambreaker Are you a Sot developer? I'm not saying read all the pages. It is enough to read the initial topic, and start giving your arguments on this matter. It would be useful if at least 1-2 times they had as a task - to be on the forum.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex I want you to answer concretely, not superficial answers.

I will do my best.

What difference does it make to a galleon that another galleon will come to it, and there will be gunfire from side to side, or it will be a sloop and there will also be a gunfight from side to side. The tactic in this can also be used as much as your imagination will suffice.

The sloop is sufficiently fast and the galleon turns slowly enough such that, if sailed properly, the sloop can remain in the galleon's fore or aft the entire battle. This means the galleon will never get an opportunity to fire a broadside at the sloop. This has happened to me more than I care to admit frankly...

I gave on page 4 arguments why ships inevitably go side by side. And in this case, it's hard not to agree that the galleon just blows you away, that you can't stand near the cannon and your hp decreases every second.

Yes: if you get into a galleon's broadside, and you are not a galleon, my advice is run away.

And you are talking to me for some economy of action. I'll tell you directly which scenario is the most profitable when the two ships meet, what happens in this case, and what is the injustice here. And this injustice becomes a regularity.

Yes, a ship with less cannons should not remain in the broadside of a ship with more cannons. That is seamanship 101 in Sea of Thieves. Are you suggesting a ship can no leave the broadside of a galleon, and reset? I do it every day.

I am asking you how things will change materially. That is, describe to me the scenario of the battle, indicate what are the negative components in it, and what the players will be able to do and what they will not be able to do.

Don't go into a galleon's broadside. If you see them turning your cannons toward you, change your trajectory. Move to their rear. They turn slowly, retreat and try again. Find cover, rocks or an island. Find a terrain advantage. But, again, don't sail into a galleon's broadside!

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@foambreaker Are you a Sot developer? I'm not saying read all the pages. It is enough to read the initial topic, and start giving your arguments on this matter. It would be useful if at least 1-2 times they had as a task - to be on the forum.

So they should not read all the opposing viewpoints, just the original wall of text that is 90% irrelevant?

Just lol.

@lordqulex I already said before, if the players on the galleon are at least playing at an average level. then you will not go behind them (and if you do, it will be for a short time (arguments on page 4).
Run away? so 16 cores will fly to you in 8 seconds. You won't even have time to sail away. And in 1 core, almost everything is knocked out: the rudder, the mast, even a hole in the hold. If you stay on board alive, the only thing you do is draw.
I ask again: describe the battle in detail if you change the charging speed for the sloop. And what disadvantages will appear in such a confrontation. If you do not want to describe, then you have no clear arguments denying my rightness.

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex I already said before, if the players on the galleon are at least playing at an average level. then you will not go behind them (and if you do, it will be for a short time (arguments on page 4).

Yes, you will. It's happened to me and I struggle to call myself more than an average player.

Run away? so 16 cores will fly to you in 8 seconds. You won't even have time to sail away. And in 1 core, almost everything is knocked out: the rudder, the mast, even a hole in the hold. If you stay on board alive, the only thing you do is draw.

Yes you will. I've done it. Many of us have done it. I think that assuming all 16 cannonballs will his is an overestimate and you'd be shocked how many cannonballs a sloop can survive.

I ask again: describe the battle in detail if you change the charging speed for the sloop. And what disadvantages will appear in such a confrontation. If you do not want to describe, then you have no clear arguments denying my rightness.

I don't know what the "charging speed of a sloop" is. I'm sorry, Google Translate is failing us. Assuming you mean "what materially changes if the sloop's cannon load time is decreased" the answer is, probably nothing. You'll get hit 0-4 times in the time it takes for you to hit them once or twice. You will need to retreat and repair long before the thought even crosses their mind. So the question I ask you is: if it isn't broken, why fix it?

My question now to you is: why are you staying broadside to broadside with a galleon in a sloop???

@horribledex And what is the philosophy of the game? That the galleons go out for a walk, while the sloops go through the 9 circles of hell? Well, then this is not a proportional amount of pretending in the game. You are sure that there is a philosophy in the game. Most likely, this is just an interesting story of developers. Be realistic: the game only exists for one. I'm not trying to blame the developers in any way. They are people, and they need to earn somehow. Such is life.

@lordqulex I answer: the ship is visible from afar, and the galleon has enough time to immediately have an angle for a shot when it approaches. If I want to escape, they will drive me to the edge of the map and drown me there.
Use rocks: Galleon with the help of harpoons increases its maneuverability many times.
The wind does not change every second. sooner or later you will be pushed to the edge. You looked at the speed of the ships and against the wind the difference is not very big. Therefore, you will not increase the distance between ships significantly. And when I'm on board a galleon: in seconds they put down the mast, and throw so much that it remains only to drain the water.
[Mod Edit]

@horribledex said in Extended feedback on game problems and suggestions for solving them. Appeal to developers:

@lordqulex I answer: the ship is visible from afar, and the galleon has enough time to immediately have an angle for a shot when it approaches.

If they notice you, yes. They don't always notice you.

If I want to escape, they will drive me to the edge of the map and drown me there.

Yep, unless you break line of sight with an island or rocks or outmaneuver them. I have literally sailed circles around galleons in a sloop, and kited them around Shipwreck Bay and Cannon Cove. It can be done!!

Use rocks: Galleon with the help of harpoons increases its maneuverability many times.

Sure, but they can still crash in tight spaces. I don't know what infallible pirates you're meeting.

The wind does not change every second. sooner or later you will be pushed to the edge. You looked at the speed of the ships and against the wind the difference is not very big. Therefore, you will not increase the distance between ships significantly.

It's big enough that I and many other people on this topic have gotten away. Maybe if you went to the help thread and asked how to escape or beat a galleon in a sloop you'd learn how to do it?

And when I'm on board a galleon: in seconds they put down the mast, and throw so much that it remains only to drain the water.

A sloop can take a LOT of water before sinking. Sail into the wind and reset. Sometimes they'll harpoon you, sometimes they won't turn fast enough. Try to blunder bomb the guy on the harpoon. You won't always get away.

I think the fundamental disagreement here is that you believe any crew size in any ship should have a 50/50 chance of winning against any other crew size in any other ship. You're just wrong. I understand this is a game, and you believe all you are asking for is a "fair and balanced chance to win PVP against any other ship." But what I'm saying is you don't deserve that. I don't deserve that. No one deserves or is expecting that. Superior force wins engagements. A fully crewed galleon is a superior force. Do not engage in a sloop. You are bringing a knife to a gunfight.

That is the game. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em as they say. A galleon versus a sloop is a bowling ball versus a tennis ball. The tennis ball rarely wins. That is the game. Learning how to sail, how to fight, and how to flee. If you don't want to learn those things, don't come here asking the developer to change the entire game for you.