What is griefing?

@druzil Although according to the OP, it would be considered griefing it actually is not. Yours is a good example of why scuttling was introduced. If the other player(s) refuse to scuttle and they are determined to keep returning, you would be forced to keep killing them to maintain control. I think some of the newer players are taking their experiences from FPS games and trying to apply the same template to this situation. They would only be comparable if scuttling were not an option. Killing people when they respawn on the boat is not the same thing as beating back the other team and surrounding their HQ to kill them as they pop up. If I drop a spawn beacon/flare near a capture point or strategic location in Battlefield, and I keep spawning there rather than giving up and using a new spawn location, the other player is justified in killing me as soon as I return. This is the situation players who refuse to scuttle are creating. The difference is, it is not quite as easy to destroy a ship as it is to destroy a spawn beacon.

@juan-823

Greifing can not be done by an enemy player.

Greifing was originally coined when high level players would circumvent the in game policing mechanics. Like a player circumventing the guards to a town and spawn camping low level players. The guards are in place to stop this type of play but the greifer in question has found a spot where he is perfectly safe and can continue without reprocussions. The low levels at this moment have no choice. They can't relocate their bodies and they keep spawning in the same location. Ultimately there is absolutely nothing they can do.

Another example - A spawn point where the players inside the spawn are protected from any outside source of damage. However again, someone found a way to circumvent this mechanic and is killing everyone in the protected zone. He can shoot into the protected zone, the players being camped can not shoot OUT of the protected zone.

Greifing was pretty black and white when it was coined. It has sense been turned into a blanket statement for whenever someone has their feelings hurt. This term has now taken over the meaning for every other term. Read in game harassment then read the definition for greifing. Its the same thing.

Spawn camping = Not greifing
Spawn camping when you have no loot = Not greifing
Spawn camping when you have no resources = Not greifing.
Enemy ship attacking you when you are doing a tall tale = Not greifing.

If you are being attacked that is just part of the game. You having loot or not having loot doesn't decide if you are a valid target. If you are being camped you can scuttle.

YOU CAN NOT BE SPAWN CAMPED UNWILLINGLY. You don't want to be spawn camped then scuttle. Every single time you respawn and die, that is your fault.

"But I have no chance to defend myself" yeah that means you lost the fight. Swallow your ego and pride and scuttle your boat and move on.

"But they want me to scuttle so I can't" - yeah thats a personal problem. Drink some milk, get 8 hours a sleep a night and grow up. Scuttle.

You are a valid target for attack the second you select "Set Sail".

There are no high levels or low levels in this game. Player abilities are exactly the same for every single pirate. Its all experience and in game knowledge. So everyone has the same chances and capabilities to defend themselves.

This is not a level 100 character with 20000000hp and 300000dps attacking a level 1 with 10hp that dies in 1 hit.

We are ALL the same. The more you play the game the better you get. The more you get into fights the better you get.

How can you be greifed in this game? By teammates.

There is little to nothing you can do to someone who trolls your ship. They can pretty much sink the ship before you have a chance to put them into the brig. The reason why teammates can be greifers is because they are suppose to be your crew. They are suppose to be in line with helping you progress. All you can do is brig them and if you can't get all the votes because someone is their friend, or you have an afk, then you are pretty much screwed. Then there are times when they intentionally drop anchor or kill teammates or blow up the ship. You pretty much at their mercy.

Enemies are suppose to attack you - Teammates are suppose to help you.

There you go.

@burnbacon said in What is griefing?:

If you attack a ship. That once realized has no loot to steal or anything worth the time and resources. BUT continue to attack them on there own ship, keeping it repaired and sinking. That is griefing

Sure, the others can and should scuttle.
But in all, you should just leave them.

Now...if they attack you first, hit the ship and attempt/succeed in boarding. Sink and destroy them regardless what they are doing. Just don’t spawn camp as said above. Sink them quick and make them regret.

See its that type of mentality I don't agree with. The reason being is that when players have no loot or anything to steal, they automatically believe they get a free pass.

Are the attackers being jerks? Yes, I could say harsher words but can't due to Rares censoring lol. However, I don't like players automatically believing that they have some moral high ground or are protected with some morality shield from attackers.

What happens is that when they do get attacked and they have no loot, they will run here and demand something is done. Then when they realize that no one is going to listen to them they get even more mad. I've seen it happen a ton of times in real life.

Someone gets all worked up because they believe they have been wronged and so they make a big deal out of it, believing they are about to get everyone to support their cause and feel validated for their struggle. Only to find out that everyone disagrees with them and now they have egg on their face and so they have a meltdown which drags everyone down. People in general will find a losing battle and set the whole world on fire if they feel any bit of shame or embarrassment. Its a problem with today's world. No one knows how to handle shame or embarrassment, they immediately lash out and demand apologies or reparations because now its not about the actual issue its about them feeling embarrassed.

Another example - Someone who says something uncouth and instead of just apologizing and accepting that they might have taken something too far, they instead keep going trying to make everyone else see how what they said wasn't as bad as it really was. Those kinda moments. Then they keep digging and digging and digging that hole and then they just get mad at everyone because they can't accept the embarrassment.

If people just accepted that they can and will be attacked regardless of situation and if they are being spawn camped they should just scuttle and move on. Then that would be better then letting them believe they have some moral force field protecting them.

I hope I got my point across accurately. If you have any confusions Id be happy to try to clarify my standing.

@ghost-of-rhyza

They aren't being denied from playing. Scuttling is the option to leave the situation. If you are being spawn camped you generally lost that fight.

Let me ask you what reasons do you believe a person has to "NOT" scuttle their boat?? Then after making your list, are any of those related to their pride or ego??

If they can't fight back they can scuttle and keep playing the game. The people spawn camping aren't denying them from playing the game since they can scuttle and move on and continue playing. So it is the player themselves that is keeping them from playing by not accepting defeat and scuttling.

The only reason spawn camping is such an issue in SoT is because of the truly awful spawn mechanic.

I understand Rare are incapable of fixing it or more than likely have no interest because "scuttle" or "if I'm on your boat you've already lost" excuses but it's easily the worst spawn mechanic in any game.

I'm sure the new revive will fix all these problems though :)

@roz-117 said in What is griefing?:

@genuine-heather and when this happens, and yes it happens a lot! how exactly are you meant to report them?

Use the Xbox Live reporting tool. Also, if you can record the instance, send the evidence to Rare. On Xbox you can turn on capture and it will buffer up to five minutes of previous gameplay at all times.. Then if something happens you can tell the Xbox to store whatever part you need. It sounds complex but it is really just a couple of button presses.

@genuine-heather said in What is griefing?:

@xultanis-dragon said in What is griefing?:

@juan-823

Greifing can not be done by an enemy player.

That's not entirely true. To be sure, what most people call "griefing" in the Sea of Thieves is nothing of the kind. As you've aptly pointed out, attacking ships, killing people, stealing loot, and even spawn camping are not necessarily griefing. But griefing can and does happen from time to time.

I think the best way to define "griefing" in Sea of Thieves is to consider Rare's own community guidelines. Rare clearly states that simply attacking each other and being pirates is perfectly acceptable and expected behavior. The point where it crosses the line is when it's accompanied by verbal profanity and abuse. It can also happen without any verbal communication if someone continually, intentionally targets another player or players for the express purpose of ruining their gameplay. To put it simply, players are expected to be good sports in both winning and losing. If a player hunts down another player or crew over and over again, for no reason aside from bullying them or wanting to make them suffer...not only is he griefing, he's a bad person and should probably seek psychiatric help.

Would that be greifing or harassment? I never agreed with how wide of a meaning "Greifing" has taken. Also trying to determine someones intent is difficult. Even if you have them on Mic suggesting that they are doing it to ruin you game experience. They could very well be lying just to make you even angrier. Its almost as if players are using "greifing" as a badge of victim-hood.

"Look at me, I was greifed!!" - sounds better would draw a lot more sympathy then - "Look at me I was harassed!!" -

The other reasons I hate blanket terms it that they are purely up for interpretation and its hard to gauge what is good or bad.

Lets take verbal trash talking for instance. Some people use the argument "Treat others as you would be treated" - the golden rule right? Well when it comes to trash talking, I really have no threshold. I just don't care. Nothing a person says to me online or even in person matters to me. However, if I turn around and do it to the other person they can attest that I am greifing them. I don't care when someone does it to me but I have to care about doing it to someone else?? That's not treating someone as an equal, thats telling me to give everyone around me special preferential treatment. They will say "well why can't you just not be a greifer" and I'll reply "Why can't you be a grown up and not let everything trigger you??"

It ultimately turns into a morality argument, which again I hate because morality is completely subjective. Its always dependent on the person and leads to a lot of hypocrisy. Same thing with greifing and harassment and toxic behavior and everything else. Its all subjective because the terms are used interchangeably. It been established to a player's feelings more than the actual actions taken themselves.

Griefer = Harassment = Toxic Behavior

Harassment = Greifer = Toxic Behavoir

Toxic Behavior = Harassment = Greifer.

They all basically mean the same thing and are used interchangeably. When someone uses 1 term they automatically associate it with the other 2. Its just that Greifer sounds like the top dog of "this issue needs to be taken seriously."

We need to draw clear and direct lines under what constitutes Greifing and everything else.

Greifing original meaning = When a player (generally high level) would circumvent exploit/glitch/hack the in game mechanics to kill (generally low level players) without repercussions. The players in questions are unable to play the game by being unable to complete quests, get their bodies, or leave the town that they are in. They have 0 options.

This seems clear and cut. Meaning that if a player is actively avoiding in game mechanics and is keep other players from "PLAYING" and they have options to avoid the situation in the game, that is greifing. Has nothing to do with emotions. Clear and cut.

I think it would help the gaming community grow as well if we had clear defined guidelines that weren't based on emotions or subjective morality.

Hope I got my point across and didn't sound to philosophical.