Again with the PC vs Xbox

@grekerr you’re completely right mate something does need to happen

The fix is easy. Just nake crossplay optional. All the problems are solved. It wont split anything or kill the game. Pc players wouldnt even notice and can still play with friends and family without interruption.
Pc people saying there is no advantage are either full of it, or naive in the sense that they havent played it on console to be able to compare. Really they just dont want to lose the advanatges and have to pvp against people on equal footing to find out they arent as good as they thought. Keep the discussion s going and voice opinions. The pc haters will eventually get this locked. Dont let the idea die and eventually they will have to take notice. Time to fly away as i have in all the other threads..
I think the funniest thing about these are all the dead horse criers that come post...all they do is bump the thdead keeping it relevant. They cant seem to use the hide function or just not click on the topics....

Cheers to all as it's been one of the more civil discussions on the matter

Oh and yes i play on both pc and xbox

See you on the seas

@katttruewalker said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

@grekerr

So... I'm a PC player and also a Deckhand, and I've seen a great many similar threads which come up on a regular basis with a range of discussion points.

As a PC player I'm starting to feel ... a little dispirited. It feels to me as if the platform I choose to play on is regularly singled out by those who perceive the disparity in performance to be so overwhelmingly significant that it destroys their ability to enjoy Sea of Thieves.

So I wanted to address that a little, from my perspective. Particularly as Sea of Thieves has risen to the top of the Xbox One sales charts in UK for this week. Source and 3rd overall for UK software sales Another Source.

I like facts and data, and to be quite frank, we do not have any specific, recent concrete game data on which to base our assumptions other than our own experiences. The last mention of disparity in performance was way back in August 2017 where Ted Timmins is quoted as saying that Pc players were 4.5% more efficient against skeletons than Xbox players. We know that a huge amount has changed within the game since that time, which was during the alpha phase.

The only concrete stats we have for the numbers of players on either platform come from way back in March, they were posted on one website - Superdata and posted with the caveat that they were unsure how much Game Pass contributed to those numbers. This was later refuted by Aaron Greenberg as a figure which did not include Game Pass numbers. Yet another Source So, 283,000 active users on PC during release month compared with 1.7 million on Xbox. I am sure this data has changed considerably during the subsequent months and we do not know what the breakdown is currently.

---

Secondly, I want to just speculate how many pirates have had the opportunity to experience Sea of Thieves on both platforms. I know I am lucky enough to have done so, but I am a complete idiot at using a controller and would not count myself as qualified in any way to compare my experience on Xbox One with that of Pc because of my ineptitude. I also use a mouse and keyboard on Pc rather than a controller because of aforementioned ineptitude, which I consider further disqualifies me from making any rational comment on perceived differences.

This leads me on to thinking about the situations in game which might 'ruin' the experience for me, so much so, that I would consider not playing, or leaving the game because of such a disadvantage to one platform.
This is obviously going to be combat, and specifically pvp combat. If I think back over my last 5 game sessions, I can categorically say that I was involved in pvp combat with another crew on one occasion. It was a draw - they sunk us once and we sunk them afterwards.
Looking back at my overall experience within game I can say that most of it is mixed, it feels like I will lose as many fights as I win broadly speaking - maybe that's down to my pc hardware, the servers, the ping, the lag, the crew I'm playing with, the fact I'm not an experienced fps player, the fact that the consequences of losing are minimal because you come right back after a brief spell on the ferry to fight again and it's all part of the fun of the whole game for me.
Can I say that the fights I win are down to the perceived advantage of my platform? No, I certainly don't think I can say that categorically, I'd like to think I have gotten a little better at pirate pvp during the last 2 years.

Sea of Thieves is a pretty gentle game pvp wise, if you're careful the losses are minimal if frustrating at times. I've played rust and dayz and other fps games and given them up because that sense of loss (plus having your base destroyed) are fairly demoralising when encountered repeatedly.

---

Thirdly. Rare do listen and do take into account the topics and issues which are most raised on the forums. We had a mega thread for just such conversations as this one. Khaleesi has posted a number of times that our feedback is being taken seriously -

@khaleesibot said in Console players having a choice to turn cross compatibility for PC off in a future update:

Thank you all for your spirited discussion in this thread! We’ve gathered feedback from the community over multiple mega-threads and we are currently investigating the main feedback points surrounding this topic along with our internal data.

Rest assured, we have heard you and are taking this topic very seriously!

My personal feeling on this, is that the issue is so complex, that much like the gathering of data around hackers and cheaters, it takes time and with each new update, tweak, improvement, that data also changes.
We also know, as members of this community, that Rare are very careful to comment publicly on topics such as this one, only where they are confident that they are making decisions based on accurate information.

---

Lastly, as mentioned above in a couple of posts, keyboard and mouse capability is coming to Xbox - Expectations From the Upcoming Official Xbox One Mouse and Keyboard Support.

We're not just talking about a pc vs Xbox disparity but also a disparity within those using Pc, it's always existed - we have players playing Sea of Thieves on potatoes as well as the highest end, fastest, most amazing rigs imaginable which for Pc players has always meant that there's someone better than you in whatever game we're playing due to hardware advantages and disadvantages, even some game designs favouring some hardware over others - it's something we've always lived with - it's never been a level playing field for us. Perhaps that's why there aren't so many Pc players commenting on these threads.

PC System Requirements

After my previous post i re read your comments and want to say that i think this sheds more light on the overall problem. Your thoughts here are candid and true and appreciated and gave me a different point of view. It highlights the problem with a lot of pc players as by your own admission you play soley on PC.
When soneone only plays on PC, they have no comparison so of course they dont see the advantages in pvp they may have over console players. If you played on console for awhile and had some pc pvp encounters..you maaay just go holy c**p that wasnt fun at all i can understand how console players might be negatively impacted by interactions like this.

Your post made me put myself in the pc only players shoes a bit more. I play on both regularly and as such have a different perspective in that crossplay should be optional, but understand a little better where the people that onky play pc exclusively might be coming from.
Really though if you havent experienced it from both sides then all we get are one sided opiniona from everyone

I’ve played on both PC and Xbox. But like @KattTruewalker, my Xbox skills are pretty much nil. I have played with people, however, who greatly prefer the controller over keyboard/mouse because that’s what they’re familiar with. They are far more proficient on Xbox. I’ve also played with an Xbox crew that absolutely slaughtered everything and everybody in their path, regardless of platform. These people clearly suffered no disadvantage.

It seems to me the “best” platform is the one with which you are most proficient. In my experience, it’s possible to become highly proficient at Sea of Thieves whether you play on Xbox, on PC with keyboard/mouse, or on PC with a controller. At some point, any real or perceived disparity between platforms becomes rather academic. Sea of Thieves doesn’t have a highly demanding combat system. The proof of that is the fact that I seem to be getting better. Even though I’m a PC player, I have virtually no modern gaming experience outside of Sea of Thieves, so if I can “git gud,” anybody can.

I don’t dispute that there are some differences between playing on PC vs. playing on Xbox. From what I’ve seen, however, any such disparity is not insurmountable. I think it’s fair to say that some people will find it easier to become proficient on a PC. But those already comfortable with controllers may find it easier to become profient on Xbox. While there may be some legitimate advantage to playing on PC, any such advantage would not be crippling to the degree some have claimed here. It really does boil down to skill level more than platform.

But here’s an honest question. In spite of my observations above, I’m not sure I fully understand the argument against “optional crossplay.” I have heard folks argue that optional crossplay would hurt the game by loading the Xbox servers and leaving the PC servers relatively empty. I’m not sure I buy this, because even if there were “only” a few hundred thousand PC players...one server only has to handle about 24 players, max.

Then there are those like me who are not power gamers. For us, the game is already balanced just fine. If all the hype is true and PC players really are all so much better at the game, people like me might be driven to frustration. Variety of encounters is a big advantage to crossplay (for both sides). Then again, if there are many others like myself then that sort of kills the theory that PC users are so much better than Xbox players.

I suppose I see both sides to this, to a degree. Weighing pros and cons, in my view it seems that crossplay, while not perfect, is probably more beneficial than detrimental. That is to say, I think making it optional would cause more harm than good, if only by a small degree.

I think the pro “optional crossplay” point of view is well represented. But I’d like to hear more compelling arguments against it before firmly committing to one side or the other.

@genuine-heather I agree with a lot of what you've said here, but I don't think the differences are negligible in any way. You may be proficient in one, and a lot of the fights come down to having good team coordination/tactics... However... there are area's where the superior speed/precision make a significant difference. One of those areas is the reliable usage of the sniper rifle at both mid/long range. And I don't think those are "edge" cases, I do think that utility comes into play fairly often used with good tactics. Xbox players can crank up the sensitivity to be more effective in close range... but many times that degrades their accuracy over longer distances. PC players can engage in both ranges with a high degree of ease.

Also the problem isn't cross play if we are comparing input pros/cons. PC's can use controllers too.

@captgraykid

Having larger player pool is always better. There is nothing inherently bad about cross play. I haven't heard a single argument against cross play specifically...

@captgraykid said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

@savagetwinky yeah, the mega thread with hundreds of arguments against cross play has been taken down. Otherwise, stick around, or scroll up.

Most of them aren't arguments against cross play...
They are arguments against hackers/cheaters, differences in input, differences in hardware. I see these as arguments against hackers, mixing an inferior control scheme, and having more than 1 hardware configuration.

I like when pc players say (crying, shouting, yelling) this is not true, pc vs xbox is equal etc etc.. of course they enjoy the cross platform because they can kill everyone easily with one shot.

@electricape said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

@savagetwinky said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

@captgraykid

Having larger player pool is always better. There is nothing inherently bad about cross play. I haven't heard a single argument against cross play specifically...

There is no argument about crossplay as such, the argument is about FORCING crossplay on it's players!
All anyone wants is to be given a choice of whether or not they use crossplay.
EVERY other crossplay title has the feature to disable crossplay if the user chooses to, & that is all anyone is asking for here

I don't care, this idea is arbitrary is stupid. So long as its a level playing field its fine. That shouldn't be a choice because the idea of cross play doesn't matter. You can just play with more people.

Just because every other title has it doesn't mean its overall a bad option for the game and the community. Especially since if its trying to solve the KB/M issue vs controller its leaving PC players hanging.

@electricape said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

@savagetwinky
But the crossplay or kb/m vs controller threads keep appearing, so it obviously isn't a level playing field!
If Xbox gets KB+M support it still won't be a level playing field! All xbox users will have to buy the overpriced MS licensed KB+M for silly money, they will then have to have 100's if not 1000's of hours practise to be as proficient with them as most pc players are!

The only solution is what has been done in every other game 'the option to opt out of crossplay' because all the other developers seem to understand that a KB+M is a superior input method & pitting them against others is not fair!!

Ok, so make a matchmaking based on controller input. What has that have to do with crossplay? Nothing. PC players also face the issue of imbalance based on input if they choose to use a controller... And soon xbox players will have the same problem within the xbox community.

So whats the point of the choice of cross play when it does not solve the problem for the community, and pretty much appears to be a temporary solution for xbox players...

@grekerr said in Again with the PC vs Xbox:

This is a problem, why are you not doing anything about it.

PC players have the advantage with:
They can turn around/jump around 10x faster than Xbox players
They can do more actions at same time
Aiming is 10x easier
Xbox players have a trigger that you have to push all the way in for it to activate the sword so it is not possible to compete vs a PC player
PC players have better framerate and they can see their ping and firgure out where/when to shoot accourding to the latency

Of course you wont get alot of this on this forum because I dont know but let say 50% are PC players and of course they dont complain.
You also see in LFG section that many just want PC players in their group

I did not create this post to whine, but to let Rare know that this is getting to me and making this game frustrating and not fun.

I been PL for a looong time and I am Athena 10 so the only thing I can do is PVP at fort now to have fun, witch it isnt anymore because of all above. And that not all but some PC players think they are superior because they kill you and give you s**t in gamechat how b****s they are and you know the reason is that they have the advantage

If this crossplay would happend on Battlefield or COD it would be a riot straight away

If you are Athena 10 you shouldn't be making blanket statements that are clearly just wrong, makes you sound like a noob. The trigger does not handicap you in any way, especially in a sword fight lol. Tell me this: what about a PC allows players to jump 10x faster than xbox players? Nothing, you are just adding in drama. The only sound point you made is the turn speed difference, which is an advantage but not a big one.