Forgive me if it has already been suggested. But perhaps xp could be reward at the completion of the individual maps. sans riddle, dig point, Skull bounty.
Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
@tyrantsyn It has been suggested, on the very first post! no need to apologize, this thread got long!
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@radjinwolf Ok...Let me ask. What is Reputation?
I am sure you have a reputation, among your family, friends, and so on. Why are we not rewarded for killing a skeleton? defeating the Kraken? defeating another crew? Solving a riddle? etc. Did Blackbeard gain his reputation for delivering stuff to merchant guilds, or for being a fearsome pirate (who by the way never killed any of his prizes!) The point is the entire rewards system makes no sense.
What doesn't make sense is killing a skeleton or finding a treasure chest and expecting a reputation out of that without proof. If we continue to extend the idea of the system being based on a somewhat realistic premise, then it's logical to believe that the guilds will have no idea about your exploits nor your ability unless you provide them with the physical proof of your deed.
The gold hoarders want gold. They're not going to laud you for finding gold, cause big woop. They're rewarding you for giving the gold to THEM. Just like I like money, but don't care how much money someone else makes. They're not gaining my favor or climbing the ranks of my business because they made $100k selling protein supplements out of the comfort of their own home. However if they gave me $10k, I'd be more inclined to look upon them favorably.
You can't say that a reward system that's based on actually turning in items to guild representatives and gaining favor for the physical act of delivering requested items doesn't make sense when it's one of the most sensical things in a predominantly non-sensical game.
@radjinwolf It doesn't make sense. Unless you are a UPS driver and your reputation depends on delivering things. Pirates or Merchant Marines? You should go back through the thread, I think you missed a lot of the finer points. Anyhow bro, the realism argument doesn't float, this is a fantasy pirate video game, with magical skull clouds, and only one key to open millions of treasure chests.
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
If you really want, how about a max of 50% gold and 50% progression on digging up the loot? (I mean my own personal opinion is that is too much, but 50% would be logical.)
I agree, gold will be more valuable as more cosmetics are added
If you are ok with 50% rep 50% gold then why is 75% rep 0% gold worse? Overall the player is getting less with the second option. You state that the threat of loss is part of the game and I agree. But for players who don’t want the reset button on ship loss they will quit the game and find something else to play. That’s bad for everyone and is entirely unnessisary. This suggestion really just decreases the risk: making PvE players happy but they still have risk, pvpve players more likely to fight, and PvP players seeing little change as they mostly fight for the fight not the loot. Your argument just doesn’t make sense to me. “Players should have risk” they do all there gold which IS valuable. Saying no one thinks gold is valuable is not an argument it’s speculation and I can personally tell you it’s wrong. People care more about rep from my POV yes but if you think I’m handing over my gold to some lurking sea dog then a cannon ball will make you think again.
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 Personally I'm in favour of exactly what you say - significant rep on killing kraken, and rep on doing all tasks.. But I do agree although I'd like reputation to be more based on feats, it is basically just exp with a fancy name currently. If larger rep rewards were available for defeating boss's, each piratey task, and killing/sinking ships, then perhaps it would actually be 'reputation' but it's just exp at the moment. I initially thought of it as reputation but you are correct, in my mind the system isn't consistent with it being reputation, so I won't treat it as such...
And one of your post will finally get my upvote :)
@angrycoconut16 I was also thinking maybe adding in a reward for continuous completion. Like say your crew and you do all of the voyages your party has collected before heading back, a combo reward would be worth having the risk of the mass amounts of loot on your ship before turning in. It's just an idea though.
@i-am-lost-77 I literally just explained, it is not based on quantity but value. Rep is more valuable than gold. That's why I'd be better with players getting a maximum of 50% of each, not 75% rep.
If players quit the game, so be it. I don't want lots of players to quit, but a lot of people seem to have bought this game thinking it was something it isn't. YES it has sandbox and exploration elements but it hasn't been designed in a way to be all suns and rainbows and no consequence. There is an ACTIVE RISK in this game, both from PvP pirates, and the kraken (so potentially other bosses too if they are added!)
I don't think that 'reset button' as you put it is a bad thing, it isn't unecessary - that's the game, that's what Rare wanted, maybe it can be developed further, but that is literally the game. And I don't think it's bad, so don't say it's bad for everyone.
You are decreasing the risk TOO MUCH with 75% rep. That's what I have issue with. By all means ask for some exp, but 75% is ridiculous.
I agree a lot of PvP players do it for fun but do you think NONE of them enjoy getting some rep too? Why decrease their reward so significantly... Whether it's their primary reason for PvP or not it is a reward they get for successfully stealing items for a player, why reduce that so much?
You have just admitted that rep is more valuable even to you, yet you want almost all of it at once... wow. I have no words. You are not up for compromise clearly. 50% gold/rep is plenty. 50% for completing essentially half of the voyage makes sense, and is plenty why do you need more then that?...
As i've stated, it's not totally speculation, because there is LITERALLY less items to spend your gold on at the moment, just look in any shop! There isn't even that much choice at the moment!
@enpixelate Your voyage isn’t truly complete until you turn it in - why would you gain reputation with a faction for not delivering what they are looking for?
Finding the loot is only half the job.
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@i-am-lost-77 I literally just explained, it is not based on quantity but value. Rep is more valuable than gold. That's why I'd be better with players getting a maximum of 50% of each, not 75% rep.
Depends on the players endgame. Some people don’t care about legend. What if I want to be the richest pirate? gold is now important. You can’t assume what players want more of.
If players quit the game, so be it. I don't want lots of players to quit, but a lot of people seem to have bought this game thinking it was something it isn't. YES it has sandbox and exploration elements but it hasn't been designed in a way to be all suns and rainbows and no consequence. There is an ACTIVE RISK in this game, both from PvP pirates, and the kraken (so potentially other bosses too if they are added!)
I am fine with active risk and I’m sure everyone who plays this game is too but currently there is no difference between a disconnect and getting killed. There is NO game that does this.
You are decreasing the risk TOO MUCH with 75% rep. That's what I have issue with. By all means ask for some exp, but 75% is ridiculous.
I think getting 50% gold for completing a voyage is ridiculous. You didn’t deliver the goods why are you getting paid? This is an opinion mine can differ.
I agree a lot of PvP players do it for fun but do you think NONE of them enjoy getting some rep too? Why decrease their reward so significantly... Whether it's their primary reason for PvP or not it is a reward they get for successfully stealing items for a player, why reduce that so much?
I think even if 50% of them did it for the reputation it still believe it wouldn’t affect them as it is a minuscule part of their rep gain overall. I have also suggested ways to balance what they would lose.
You have just admitted that rep is more valuable even to you, yet you want almost all of it at once... wow. I have no words. You are not up for compromise clearly. 50% gold/rep is plenty. 50% for completing essentially half of the voyage makes sense, and is plenty why do you need more then that?...
I am for compromise. 100% rep on voyage completion I feel is ridiculous and believe the last 1/4 of the journey is turning in the loot. I personally feel you did more than 50% of the work finding treasure on up to 7 different islands over the course of a half an hour or more.
As i've stated, it's not totally speculation, because there is LITERALLY less items to spend your gold on at the moment, just look in any shop! There isn't even that much choice at the moment!
True but things change!
@entspeak Let's say you finished several voyages and you're on your way to turn in, but this galleon or sloop has you in their sights and they take you out. Now you're at an island several blocks away from where you sank and you've lost all your loot. All that time you spent doing that, wouldn't you at least want a little something for your time? Hmm? This is why I said a small rep for completion and bonus when you turn in. The way I see it if you lose your stuff due to being sunk or having it stolen by another player at least you came away with something so its not a complete loss.
@toji-suzuhara said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak Let's say you finished several voyages and you're on your way to turn in, but this galleon or sloop has you in their sights and they take you out. Now you're at an island several blocks away from where you sank and you've lost all your loot. All that time you spent doing that, wouldn't you at least want a little something for your time? Hmm? This is why I said a small rep for completion and bonus when you turn in. The way I see it if you lose your stuff due to being sunk or having it stolen by another player at least you came away with something so its not a complete loss.
Here I will just let the Devs say it, because you get it!
"Some of the multiplayer survival games we were looking at previously – such as DayZ and Rust – they had that drama, but the lows were so cripplingly low, you'd play for hours and hours and might lose absolutely everything." Mike Chapman referring to what they did NOT want to have happen to players
@i-am-lost-77 Oh come on, very few players will want that. You are clutching at straws now, especially as you let the cat out of the bag and admitted you find rep more valuable, and funny how you want 75% of that.
What? Where does disconnect come into this? Disconnections are irrelevant and the majority of games do not coddle you if you disconnect, you loose your experience, your rep, money etc... some have reconnect features but often in online PvP if you dc that's unfortunate but that's that.
'you didn't deliver the goods why are you getting paid' for the same reason you are getting reputation apparently ;)
How do you know? What about players who do PvP most of the time? Ah I see, well that's debatable. Do not forget PROTECTING it is part of the work too, and if you have to escape, run, or are forced to fight, suddenly that short voyage back to an outpost becomes 50% too, or perhaps even higher. You never know what you will face on your return trip, especially if you don't turn in straight away and do several gold hoarders at once, or find a message in a bottle! :)
Yes, but they haven't changed yet.
@entspeak So...If players received the Reputation award upon "Voyage Complete" and the Gold as payment on turn in, how is that a bad thing?
@radjinwolf said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@radjinwolf you don’t get paid until you turn in. No gold until turn in. you don’t get paid in expirence that’s something you learn by doing.
You're not gaining experience. You're gaining reputation.
You don't gain rep with anyone by failing to complete a job.
There are literally commendations for completing voyages(as in digging up the last treasure chest) and sailing a certain number of miles while doing voyages. Guess what they reward you with reputation. Checkmate.
@touchdown1504 Can I ask you a serious question. In your opinion, why are you not happy with 50% gold/50% rep on completing half the voyage? or would you be happy with that?
My point would be yes it's experience/progression but you get that for DOING things, technically if you still have to hand it in to get more of a reward, you haven't completed it yet. (I know we have discussed how the game isn't totally logical xD But 50% would make more sense to me and be a solid compromise).. Plus I think a lot of people consider exp the more valuable commodity, so giving too much of that away risks making it look less and less attractive to defend the loot and people will be quicker to cut their losses and escape. (and by escape I mean scuttling, logging out, new server, and we're off again..)
I do see your point and I agree with some form of reward early, but I don't see why this whole thread is so intent on it being a high % of progression, to me that simply shows how much people value progression over gold... almost as if people are trying to 'avoid' defending their loot.
Disclaimer: I know you would be defending for all of your gold, but the fairest thing would be to get a max of 50% of each so that players are fighting for BOTH. (as some players might prefer gold, and lots seem to prefer progression..) Lets face it progression is viewed by a lot, as the more valuable thing.
@angrycoconut16 I tell you why I don’t support 50/50 it’s because its immersion breaking for me. You literally have a skull or an unopened chest why do you get gold? And please don’t turn back on your admitting rep is xp. That was such an important step.
I have supported on another post that opening up chest for a small gold reward would be fine but I stated the majority should still be from turning in relics you would find inside keeping with gold hoarder lore. I disagreed with a large portion of gold on opening the chest because it took away from PvP and the point of gold hoarders.
@angrycoconut16 Never said I am not happy with 50/50. What I originally said is they should implement it one piece at a time, so as not to break it or make it worse. I am not a programmer, but it seems to me the timing of awards would be an easy adjustment. Switch the timing of the Reputation award to coincide with "Voyage Complete". Give it some time to see if that works. If not, then get under the hood and make adjustments, percentages, awards for other activities, or put it back where it was. That was my original stance.
My new stance is, it is very possible, it was meant to be awarded on voyage complete to begin with. In which case it would either be a fix they have not implemented, or at this time have chosen not to implement. Those quotes I gave you earlier are from one interview. Take some time, watch the developer videos, and read other interviews. It is VERY clear to me that the current full loss system is not what they intended to have happen. Which is why I am 100% certain something will change. What and When? Your guess is as good as mine!
The next point of contention I have is the PvP risk vs. rewards balance. Everyone in defense of keeping it as is, very obviously defend it for the purposes of PvP. I am totally fine with that, (I too have jumped other ships and taken ALL of what they had) under the condition the PvP players take on some risk of loss. Let me throw something outlandish out there...Reputation right? So, a PvP player attacks a ship and fails miserably. In the terms of "reputation" what would his reputation look like now to other "people" that reside in the Sea of Thieves? Loser? bad Strategist? Terrible ship Captain? So, maybe he takes a loss in his current reputation as a risk? I am being ridiculous here, intentionally. it illustrates two points. One, the Lore argument holds no water unless it goes both ways. Two, PvP players will fight this tooth and nail because since they have ZERO loss right now, they feel like they will lose half of what they could have gained. If the PvP crowd is presented with any scenario that changes the current status quo there will be pitchforks and torches at rare HQ. Think about it. Ship is worth nothing, respawn, no big deal. There is zero risk to being the attacker, no risk of loss what so ever! That is very unbalanced!
Folks keep mentioning that "risk" is part of the game. I agree, that tension can be a lot of fun. Until you wake up and realize, the attacking or hunting crew has no tension AT ALL. Just Fun! It needs balance, there needs to be EITHER a risk of loss that the attacking crew must endure to attack, or the rewards need to be offset so the victim does not walk away empty handed (It is not real life, so don't say it, it is a video game!). As it stands now the "tension" only goes one way. So, that's where I stand, and mostly why I stand there. I think many folks in here misunderstand me. One of my favorite aspects of this game is the PvP. I absolutely love ship battles. I have chased other players myself, I have even blockaded an outpost as a skull fort ended. I just simply realize the PvP is lopsided. PUBg and Fortnite...what do you risk there? It is equal, across the board. That is why those games succeed. I have a hard time finding any game other than SoT that is this unbalanced in Risk and Reward.
@i-am-lost-77 Wait what?.... I am thinking of rep as exp..
But why can't PvP be for gold AND REP.
I have already stated... exp is more valuable than gold for a lot of players in the game. 75% is simply too much. There is less incentive to defend. I for one can tell you that I am close to getting everything I want currently, in terms of cosmetics, from the game. After that point I couldn't care less hell i'll give people chests, why would I defend a measly 25% exp? And I don't care about losing 100% gold from ONE VOYAGE (it is not often you are attacked anyway...)
What the hell, you are asking for the majority of experience points from 50% of the experience, and you don't want to break the immersion. that doesn't add up buddy. Getting 50% gold makes just as much sense as getting more than 50% exp...
But I feel it's important as reputation is more valuable than gold, we all know it. If there was LOOOADS of stuff you could do with gold, fair enough, ship customisations for instance, there simply isn't. And that can't be in the discussion until there is, which won't be for a while yet..
@angrycoconut16 if there isn’t a large amount of stuff to buy with gold added soon honestly I might stop playing because I don’t particular care that much about legend. The reason I value rep more is because it unlocks stuff to buy with gold in the first place. If everything was unlocked and all you got was legend from rep I wouldn’t care about rep at all. But my stand still wouldnt change on 75% xp and 0% gold. I personally feel 75% of the voyage is done when the last chest\ skull is acquired. You may feel differently but that’s not something worth arguing over.
@i-am-lost-77 Guys, this is a bit off topic, but the roadmap video and news post is up. Go check it out, it is interesting to say the least.
@touchdown1504 I completely agree. My reasoning for having 50/50 is that reputation is a lot more valuable, if this idea came into effect, it needs to be proportioned correctly, 50% reward for 50% of the journey. In my opinion 50/50 is the easiest way to achieve that. Any more is greed. Exp is more valuable than gold currently... gold has a far quicker 'end point' (i.e. when you have bought everything you want for instance) than exp does.
@angrycoconut16 What is valuable is in the eye of the beholder! Reputation is as valuable as you want it to be. Some people don't care, others (like me) do! Some are hellbent on the cosmetics, look at all of the threads asking how people can get ahold of the exclusive stuff. . The only reason (get ready) that I believe reputation should be awarded on the Voyage Complete is because it is XP. The Gold on turn in makes perfect sense because that is (ready again) just a different type of spendable XP used to gain goodies. Thus, an individuals progression is not interfered with when it comes to the road to Pirate Legend (or whatever is next). But, they can't buy that hat they wanted or the bucket covered in jewels, which, does not effect their movement toward legend. I don't believe another player should have the ability to stop another player from progressing toward Legendary. Otherwise it should go both ways. You attack me, make a mistake and lose...I gain reputation for beating back my attacker, the attacker loses reputation for sucking. (I don't really want it that way) But right now it is exactly the opposite! That my friend is a lack of balance!
@angrycoconut16 I just want to make my position completely clear. I would prefer 50/0 over 50/50. My belief is you earn xp for doing voyages not gold which is only given out when you physically turn in the goods.
My point on 75% is I believe after sailing from island to island, digging up chest, and killing skellys is 75% of the expirence. All non voyages like shipwrecks 100% of experience is about getting that treasure back from the sunk ship (just like if it was pvp). I don’t want to take away xp from PvP I want to allow PvE to have it. Additionally, I think 75% xp would give players more of an incentive to fight instead of run than 50%, which imo would still result in a lot of fleeing. That’s just my opinion it’s up to Rare to decide how much of the expirence was meant to be earned by completing the voyage. But I think we can all agree this is a good system that should be implemented regardless of %
@tyrantsyn said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Forgive me if it has already been suggested. But perhaps xp could be reward at the completion of the individual maps. sans riddle, dig point, Skull bounty.
I’d prefer only on voyage completion to incentivize completing the whole voyage instead of canceling out because of getting a riddle quest or a 1 skelly captain bounty.
@touchdown1504 im so glad we see eye to eye on so many things lol. If I ever see you in game I will attempt to share a keg of grog. Cheers!
@i-am-lost-77 Ok, lets not argue numbers. I agree:
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Players should receive exp when doing smaller tasks such as digging up loot, killing skeleton captains, solving each step of a riddle.
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On completion of voyage players should receive either bonus exp to what currently exists OR a % of the total exp reward from the quest.
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@touchdown1504 We have already established that reputation is exp, and I completely agree and understand that. I don't care what it's called, I may refer back to calling it rep purely because that's what it's called in game but I agree, it functions only as exp.
But the thing is, I would argue that a players progress SHOULD be interfered with if they can't defend the loot. What you are suggesting is not too dissimilar from failing to kill the kraken but wanting 100% of the exp gain which is associated with it, for instance. (I know there isn't exp gain at the moment, but just as an example.. if there was)
I'm sorry, how does buying a cosmetic hat effect movement to legend exactly?
Well, I do agree with your final suggestion for sure! I think it should be more on equal terms, PvP players should be able to lose something OR perhaps PvE players should be able to gain something extra?.... after combat. That's why I suggested a PvP faction on a different thread, but yea, i see your point, for sure. You explained that last bit very well and I agree, it would be healthier for the game that way.
Anyway, gunna watch the roadmap vid, thanks for the heads up. I agree with your principles, my only argument is quantity of rep gain, but I certainly agree with the actual idea of rep gain you are suggesting.
@angrycoconut16 Really waht is wrong with 100% XP on killing/digging up(leave merchant as is) and 100% of gold on turn in?
Its allows people to progress but not get any reward
it makes PVP do some actual work(I think this is the real issue) to get the factions leveling up
It stops people like your first pirate legend hoping servers trying to find loaded up galleons to get quick XP
and it allows the pve folk to atleast get something and will make them more likely to fight, the loss is still real no turn in no gold, no gold no fancy sails....
It really is down to bully boys not wanting real PVP and trying to keep there easy targets....
I don't enjoy spending a few hours out on the seas to not even get a few levels.... anyway I hope they make some changes to this fast as it would make the game much more enjoyable and I bet it would stop alot of people asking for PVE Only/private sessions.
@i-am-lost-77 I'd like to try, especially as more content comes out :) But we'll see what happens.. I'm roughly 18 across the board of factions, not terribly high, but my friend told me it gets much steeper at 20+...
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