Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@touchdown1504 I think if they just moved the 'voyage completed' till when you have turned in at an outpost it would make more sense.. then again I suppose the only purpose of voyage complete is extra confirmation that you have completed all parts of a voyage?.. dug up all the chests, killed all of the captains you need to etc... perhaps Rare didn't intend on it being taken so literally?...

I agree, I'm sure Mike wants people to have fun. I doubt they will do a 180 decision on their idea of having a physical object which requires defending and 100% of rep on digging up loot removes most incentive to defend it, so I doubt that will happen, but it could be a positive move to reward SOME progression on digging up certainly, but I'd be disappointed if it is any more than 50%.

To be honest I just want to hear another official statement from Rare at the moment, all of their patches are primarily bug fixes at the moment still..

Edit to your reply: Agreed! And I can totally understand where you are coming from! Rare need to clarify exactly what their intention was and adjust the 'voyage complete' accordingly..

I am reluctant to agree with the the only benefactors being aggressive PvP players though (: Purely because from my own personal experiences I've had no trouble defending loot and turning it in ^^ I understand this story isn't the same for everyone though.

@i-am-lost-77 I would not be happy with 100% rep up front, 50% max. Why remove the primary incentive to defend your loot? yes I know you can loose 100% gold but that isn't enough, there needs to be SOME rep at stake too.

It doesn't make logical sense that you get 100% progression when your trip/quest is still IN PROGRESS because you are defending the rest of what is in the chest...

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Personally I don't understand what the merchant faction is all about. Asking pirates to go and collect pigs is bizarre. A PvP faction would make more sense.

Oh man this is an easy one BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A PIRATE. Some people want a casual sailing game and to be merchants. I personally don’t but it’s their choice to do that! Not everyone wants pvp forced down their throat! Can you not see this is the whole point of this thread: LET PLAYERS ENJOY THE GAME HOW THEY WANT!

@angrycoconut16 I don’t think 100% is good I say 75% is perfect. And combined with a PvP faction that rewards extra xp on stolen loot PvP player have a possibility to lose none of the xp that could potentially be lost by this change

@i-am-lost-77 Chill out man! You make a fair point, it's called sea of thieves not pirates, touché. But lets be real, digging up treasure and fighting cursed skeletons is pretty piratey ;) The 3rd faction just stands out like a sore thumb, at least in my opinion :)

@i-am-lost-77 max 50%. You literally have gone from A to B. You still have to do B to A WITH your newly gained physical object, and may need to defend it.

That's a fair point - bonus exp if it's stolen, but I still say 50% to the PvE. That is plenty! Don't remove 75% of the incentive to defend the loot, which is essentially what 75% rep would do.

@i-am-lost-77 it will take the challenge out of pvp because players will just give up the loot knowing they already got the rep. That goes against the idea of the game which is what made it so different than other games.

@sawhix said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 it will take the challenge out of pvp because players will just give up the loot knowing they already got the rep. That goes against the idea of the game which is what made it so different than other games.

Don’t get me wrong I see your point. It’s a valid concern but I feel like the majority of the player base is PvPvE not the far sides of the spectrum. Is there any challenge in PvP when a solo sloop runs away and you catch them and kill them without them ever returning fire? Cmon let’s be real the challenge of PvP is when they fight back. There will still be players who don’t want to fight and will run. But can you not see how without the reset button we have now more PvPvE players will put up a fight with more loot on board? Less loss means more risktaking. It’s simple as that. Assuming people will just hand over their treasure because they don’t think it has value is ludicrous. This system promotes fighting your way out instead of running. And I personally suggest 75% rep on voyage completion so there is still and incentive for that last 25% plus 100% of your gold

@touchdown1504 What gold is not deferred?

@i-am-lost-77 Yes, there is challenge, catching up with a sloop, and the sloop coming up with ways to escape.. take a sharp turn behind this island... drop a gunpowder barrel in front of them... go onto their ship and cause havoc/lower the anchor while i steer... the chasers being smart and going around a rock to cut them off... chasing people is not easy, ironically digging up a chest IS.

I don't think you know what risk means. less loss = LESS RISK inherently... if you have less to lose then it is less risky, even if you die.

Of course some people will hand over the treasure! There will come a point where everyone is only interested in progression because gold is redundant! DO you honestly think people are going to break a leg and fight like hell for 25% measly progression in that circumstance?... It needs to be something worth fighting for...

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 max 50%. You literally have gone from A to B. You still have to do B to A WITH your newly gained physical object, and may need to defend it.

That's a fair point - bonus exp if it's stolen, but I still say 50% to the PvE. That is plenty! Don't remove 75% of the incentive to defend the loot, which is essentially what 75% rep would do.

I disagree. most players are PvPvE. less loss means more risktaking which means they are more likely to fight! Yea solo “PvE only” sloops will still run but I highly doubt the majority of people are gonna start scuttling the second a ship gets close. Contrary to you belief, people value gold and will continue to as more content keeps coming out. 25% is enough to not want to lose it. If it takes 400 hours to reach legend (just and example) no ones gonna just give up 100 hours.

@t-to-the-rey He means you get your gold when you hand in at an outpost, therefore the reward is deferred until then. In the mean time you have to sail it back, which may require defending your loot if you get engaged in PvP combat or pursued.

@i-am-lost-77 But risking what?!!? You don't seem to understand, what is at risk?? 25% rep and 100% gold which people will all come to not care about (unless lots of cosmetics are added which people want to save up for).... The entire reason that chests and loot exist is so there is a physical object to protect, that IS THE RISK and is why people are reluctant to engage in PvP. What you are suggesting will make people more likely to PvP purely because they have almost nothing to lose! They will have received the majority of their reward. Thus it will defeat the entire idea that Rare were trying to pursue... thieves will have nothing to take from you...

I agree, they won't give up, but it will be far quicker to cut your losses a lot of the time and start a new PvE voyage on a new server, rather than fight for 25% which is almost nothing and will be a lot more time consuming.

@touchdown1504 if it’s about the murder then this change literally affects nothing lol

@enpixelate You pay for voyages. The idea here is that you're paying the guilds for a chance to complete a contractual assignment. The contractual assignment isn't complete until you turn the items in, which is the time you get rep / gold.

A turn-in breakdown already shows that items turned in for a voyage reward more gold than they do if you just find them in the world. Without metrics I can't say this for sure, but it's probably the same for voyage rep vs. rep gained from world-found items, too.

In the real world, you aren't paid for a job until you complete it. Some jobs even require an up-front investment in order to win the contract. That's how SoT's guild system is structured, too.

@radjinwolf I guess you never heard of paid by the hour

@i-am-lost-77 And you think people who are paid by the hour will receive 75% for a job 50% completed?

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@radjinwolf I guess you never heard of paid by the hour

The guilds aren't our employers. We're independent contractors asking them for work. It's our "job" to purchase a contract, collect the items needed, and return them to the guilds or outposts as assigned. THEN we get paid.

Giving a gold reward or rep just for completing the voyage when the loot can be stolen or lost at any time before turn-in doesn't make a lick of sense.

@touchdown1504 Could be solved by having multiple quests on the go, I do agree that people should have the freedom to do multiple voyages at once, (so long as they accept the increased risk of having more loot on board)... The merchants asks for a specific outpost turn in but there is no reason that can't be active (until it runs out) with other voyages... bizarre system

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 But risking what?!!? You don't seem to understand, what is at risk?? 25% rep and 100% gold which people will all come to not care about (unless lots of cosmetics are added which people want to save up for).... The entire reason that chests and loot exist is so there is a physical object to protect, that IS THE RISK and is why people are reluctant to engage in PvP. What you are suggesting will make people more likely to PvP purely because they have almost nothing to lose! They will have received the majority of their reward. Thus it will defeat the entire idea that Rare were trying to pursue... thieves will have nothing to take from you...

This is why a lot of people pvp because they have nothing to lose. I am a PvPvE player and I only fight when I have little or no treasure on board because it’s not worth losing my progress. And I can easily avoid a fight it just takes a lot of time away from other things. I’d much rather fight it out but it’s not worth it if I lose the fight currently. And more cosmetics will keep coming so yes gold will always be important. My idea will still have you losing a 1/4 of your xp and all your gold. Something worth fighting for imo

I agree, they won't give up, but it will be far quicker to cut your losses a lot of the time and start a new PvE voyage on a new server, rather than fight for 25% which is almost nothing and will be a lot more time consuming.

There are people who would do that so what? if they don’t want to engage in PvP they take a rep and gold penalty and they continue playing how they want on another server. This is no different then getting sunk and switching servers except now they didn’t waste hours of their time? Why do you insist they get reset? It’s just selfish tbh.

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@radjinwolf Well, in that case why doesn't the voyage complete when you turn in everything? Why does it complete when a skull drops or the shovel strikes a chest? MA has it right, voyage completes on turn in. I will tell you why, can you imagine sailing out, digging up a castaway chest, then sailing all the way back to start another voyage? The system is wrong. The lore argument is ridiculous, we are talikng mechanics, and what is enjoyable. I personally do not find it fun to have total loss after an hour or so of voyaging. Some people may not care, I do, and apparently so do lots of others.

That's the risk of the game. Almondbeard aside (since that's NOT an intended risk within the mechanics of the game), the risk is that you may lose the loot.

You're correct that mechanically within the game, a voyage is "complete" the moment you find the treasure / kill the skele in order to allow you to go on more voyages without having to return to an outpost like the merchant guild requires. A very obvious fix for this would be to allow a crew to undertake multiple voyages concurrently.

But just because a voyage is "complete" doesn't mean that it's time to get paid. If I'm hired to construct something - be it a business report or a building - I'm not paid until that thing is delivered to the client, regardless of how complete it is.

@radjinwolf the realism argument is pointless so if that’s your reasoning then I’m not gonna argue. It’s a game rep = xp

@radjinwolf you don’t get paid until you turn in. No gold until turn in. you don’t get paid in expirence that’s something you learn by doing.

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@radjinwolf the realism argument is pointless so if that’s your reasoning then I’m not gonna argue. It’s a game rep = xp

The realism argument is intended to give you a very salient, very specific example of how and why the system is structured the way that it is. If your argument is "we can shoot ourselves out of canons and fight skeletons, so realism doesn't matter lol" then I counter by asking why we don't have laser guns, or why our ships can't fly.

The simple answer is: That's not how the mechanics of the game is designed.

@i-am-lost-77 I am not debating your point, it's solid, you are correct if people arent' going to lose so much of course they are more likely to fight, but the point I am making is that it's because of reduced risk in the suggested system, and the entire point of this game is for there to be a fair bit of risk, because of the nature of the game - anyone can steal anything at any time until it is handed in.

Because that is literally the game. You can't join a game which is played a certain way and say 'well i like this and this, but i don't like this, therefore I only want to play it like this and the system needs to change to fit that'. The entire crux of the game currently is having something valuable to defend. I'm all for making it healthier for people but asking for 75% progression up front is greed, nothing less. If you really want, how about a max of 50% gold and 50% progression on digging up the loot? (I mean my own personal opinion is that is too much, but 50% would be logical.) And if you still dislike this idea and want 75% progression you are proving my point that progression is the more valuable commodity of the two, which is even more reason to not have 75% straight up because that reduces the value of your cargo significantly.

I agree, gold will be more valuable as more cosmetics are added, currently we have no idea when that will be, and how much they will be worth, all the while players are accumulating gold. So in the mean time, forget gold, it's not worth a huge amount...

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@radjinwolf you don’t get paid until you turn in. No gold until turn in. you don’t get paid in expirence that’s something you learn by doing.

You're not gaining experience. You're gaining reputation.

You don't gain rep with anyone by failing to complete a job.

@touchdown1504 Personally I'm in favour of exactly what you say - significant rep on killing kraken, and rep on doing all tasks.. But I do agree although I'd like reputation to be more based on feats, it is basically just exp with a fancy name currently. If larger rep rewards were available for defeating boss's, each piratey task, and killing/sinking ships, then perhaps it would actually be 'reputation' but it's just exp at the moment. I initially thought of it as reputation but you are correct, in my mind the system isn't consistent with it being reputation, so I won't treat it as such...