Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

It doesn't take hours to complete 3 Gold Hoarders quests.

Look at all three maps, mark the islands. Go to the island one by one.
Then get back to a safe outpost.

The riddles arent that hard.

When you are on an island just check the horizon every minute.
It's the fun part of the game, thinking you are chased even if you are not.

And if you see another ship. Just sail away. Easy as pie!

The pirates also needs the reputation in the factions.
Otherwise they have to make the voyage, which they don't want since they "argh, are Pirates!"

@kaetten Well maybe that's how they should balance the game. If you're looting from other players you shouldn't get any reputation for turning in chests, you should just get the gold. There has to be pro's and cons, and there aren't really any cons to playing PvP focused.

@skeletore The biggest cons playing PVP focused are that you aint getting any gold. Since you only get what other crews have gathered.

If they even have something.

And it takes more time to track down a ship and sink it, then it takes to complete 3 Gold Hoarders quests.

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@sawhix What you don't get, and honestly most of the hardcore pvp crowd dont, is this particular issue is causing players to quit the game.

Sure you can sit here and say "lulz they quit, can i have your stuffs' , but at the end of the day the game is dead if you don't fix broken systems.

You should ALWAYS progress in a game. As Touchdown posted, this wasn't even the intentional route. They actually meant to have rep and gold separate. Gold is all you are supposed to lose.

There are 2 currencies. One is your progress, one is your dollars to buy stuff. You gain one (your actual leveling up) when you do missions, you gain the other (currency) when you turn in the valuables. Its win/win.

Imagine in WoW. You go into a raid and die? Welp, you just de-leveled. Come back once you gain all of that experience back. Its no different. Its one of the reasons games took out experience loss upon death (Like FFXI). Its just not fun losing everything.

This is pretty much it. Hardcore PvP players always ruin games like this. There's always great potential for immersive role-playing and great cooperative experiences. But that's ruined and never fully realized because people treat it like their own personal team deathmatch... Plenty of games feature both pvp and pve aspects, yet for some reason people always put focus on the pvp and claim that it's the only way to play. The game will become just another dying fad at this point. It's essentially turned into another one of those survival games you see pop up so often and drop off so frequently.

@sawhix I've been thinking about it and I do agree - otherwise you never have any reason to go to port if you just want to level up factions... quest, island, dig up, quest, island, kill, quest, island, capture pig.. each step getting your rep and if you're rich you don't need to worry about the gold (or don't care about cosmetics).. it would be way too easy.

I don't care if players want a large proportion of their GOLD up front, and a small amount of rep, but most rep should come from handing in. Otherwise, a small rep bonus on digging up chests is also a possibility.

I do not agree with people asking for gold/rep to be split, rep on finding it, gold on handing in, that is ridiculous and ill-thought out.

@skyewauker 100% experience pre-turn in is ridiculous. I do see where you are coming from and wouldn't mind seeing some kind of reward on voyage complete as it takes time to do but I do strongly believe the MAJORITY of rep should come on hand in. Why not 90% gold, 10% rep on digging it up, rest on hand in, or 80%/20%...

I do agree with where you are coming from too, it would lead to more PvP because people are less scared to lose things but I think there are healthier ways to encourage more PvP than people getting their rewards early (and 100% rep is unbelievably ridiculous! You can literally imagine all of the ships running around with 20 chests because they don't care about gold and just want to do quest after quest after quest getting their 100% rep and grinding the factions away without going to outposts very often at all...)

@kaetten Agreed, but some people seem to think it's unbelievably difficult... plus I don't understand why you would get a massive reputation boost (some people are suggesting all of your rep just on digging up the treasure)... when you haven't even completed the mission and handed in, I don't mind a small bit of rep... but yea... this is cheap

@skeletore What? Those sorts of people are not that common... I've only encountered a handful, plus it sort of is partly a survival game, yes, you are on an ocean with pirates who want to steal your c**p and probably kill you in the process, why made you think you wouldn't be fighting for your life at times? o_O

@kaetten said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@skeletore The biggest cons playing PVP focused are that you aint getting any gold. Since you only get what other crews have gathered.

If they even have something.

And it takes more time to track down a ship and sink it, then it takes to complete 3 Gold Hoarders quests.

So the only negative to PvP focused play is that you may have wasted your time killing someone for nothing? O gosh how horrible for you, maybe you should have done a voyage instead eh?

It actually doesn't take more time to track down a ship and sink it. If it takes you that long, all that tells me is that there's no system in the game to promote that kind of behavior, and there shouldn't be, because people have and will continue to abuse the 0 risk of playing PvP focused.

PvE players carry 100% of the risk in the game.

@skeletore I like the idea of a bounty to add risk to PvP players. (completely off topic but just FYI).. I suggested one possible route for this if interested: https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/49649/new-faction-combat-pvp

I've not had major issues with anyone camping or getting cheap kills personally.. and out of all the enemy ships I see very few actually chase me..

@skeletore PvE: 100% risk but a ton more payout as well. It isn't that often you get attacked and it is easy to take measures to prevent it. Yes, it does take more time to track down a ship and sink it, easily, because you will never have a map of where the victim is, and any sensible people will escape when they see you are chasing them, or attack you back and defeat you.

PvP: less risk as less to lose, but you automatically gain a lot less too, PvE get a ton more payout from their preferred playstyle.

@skeletore Actually i set out from and outpost with 3 quests.
And if I have finished one quest, and see a ship i probably attack it, regardless of the GREAT loss i can do. 1 whole quest down the drain. How terrible. =)

But if i have done 2 quests and depending on the loot, i probably go to the outpost instead of engage in a combat situation.

But i still think, the person who don't care about the surroundings
are the person who shall lose the most. (In this case, 1-3 chests and some xp)

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@skeletore What? Those sorts of people are not that common... I've only encountered a handful, plus it sort of is partly a survival game, yes, you are on an ocean with pirates who want to steal your c**p and probably kill you in the process, why made you think you wouldn't be fighting for your life at times? o_O

It's more common than people seem to realize, as that is the only goal for pretty much every player I come across. Every time I log on it seems like I'm being chased, or attacked when I'm at an outpost and don't even have any loot. I obviously expected players would do this, but the thing is that there's no balance. You can attack someone unprovoked without any penalty, and some people don't even care about loot, all they want to do is attack other players. The game can be incredibly fun, and it's all cut short because someone wants to play forced deathmatch.

@skeletore But it simply isn't, I have played this game quite a bit and a lot of the time ships will more readily turn away than engage you... you are exaggerating a lot...

The tension of being attacked by another player is one of the exciting parts of this game. As a PvE player I enjoy having to be on my guard and looking around every corner for potential attackers, and then fighting if anyone comes along to attack me and my crew..

@touchdown1504 That's really interesting! Lets see what Rare do or comment on with regards to that then. Can I have a link to those quotes please?

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@skeletore But it simply isn't, I have played this game quite a bit and a lot of the time ships will more readily turn away than engage you... you are exaggerating a lot...

The tension of being attacked by another player is one of the exciting parts of this game. As a PvE player I enjoy having to be on my guard and looking around every corner for potential attackers, and then fighting if anyone comes along to attack me and my crew..

People need to stop claiming their personal experience as fact. I've played the game quite a lot too, that doesn't invalidate my experience just because yours is different. You have to assume that larger groups of players all have different experiences. While some might be similar to yours, you can guarantee that just as many are likely having the same experience as mine.

For me there is no tension, just frustration because one type of person can ruin a game with great potential. I love playing PvE and progression and sailing. It's a fun experience to explore and hunt for treasure, and that can all instantly change because of other players. the whole "this is why we can't have nice things".

@skyewauker I don't care if it's rep or exp or progress. Why should you get 100% of your progress for completing 50% of the mission.

I don't know, I've read that link and it's interesting, they definitely say they are taking away gold, so it makes sense you lose 100% of your gold on losing chests. With regards to rep/exp/progression,
''That said, we'll try to do everything in our power to get your adventure going again. Yes, you may lose the chests on the ship, we're not going to take your accrued gold away, anything you've purchased away, or your voyages, or your reputation. ''

They put reputation in the same context as ,purchases, accrued gold, and voyages waiting to be started. This makes me think they're talking about reputation ALREADY GAINED, not reputation at stake in the form of chests. I must agree however, they aren't clear on this, as reputation in the form of chests and loot is not explicitly mentioned.

As it stands I feel the absolute maximum rep/progression you should get on digging up a chest is 50%, no more. You should not be awarded 100% for completing 50%. I know it comes up with 'voyage complete' but that is very misleading anyway...

Outposts are always near.. never more than 2 islands or so away.. I'm not saying it's a rite of passage I'm saying you start the quest there, so it's normal in games to finish your quest at the same NPC. Some games do have a mechanic where your quest finishes on obtaining an item and then you do something else with it but come on, these NPCs clearly want their skull/pigs back, they aren't asking you to go and get them for fun. But I do agree, 'voyage complete' is misleading..

@skeletore I agree. But you are doing the same that is the trouble :P I agree everyone has different experiences. Although I will say this, Rare have specifically designed this game with the ability to lose what you have gained. If you can't handle that this isn't the game for you, yes PvE and sailing is fun but this isn't just a grind grind grind game you need to defend what is yours. Perhaps they can cushion the blow a bit (which is what this thread is about) but it will never disappear so you will be feeling that frustration quite a lot.

@angrycoconut16 Really tired of that "this isn't the game for you" response, as if there are any other games with the PvE aspect of sea of thieves. It's the game for me when there's no PvP, or if it was actually balanced. There's obvious issues with the balancing in the game, you can deny it all you want or claim that that's how the game was designed. Going back to interviews with devs point to that it was not how it was designed. More so that the game is incomplete

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@sawhix said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@skyewauker I never run and my reason for pvp is firstly managing to sink your ship and then if you had treasure that's a bonus, if you rage on the voice it's even better and my job as a pirate is done. I like that pirating activities don't get the loser anything and the winner takes all the spoils. It's pirates on an open sea! Don't want to turn this into an arcade game where you progress whatever happens.

Finally! An honest PvP player! You have made my point, it took 300 or so posts, but there it is. This exactly is the issue. I didn't (I am willing to bet many feel the same) purchase this game for YOUR entertainment, I purchased it for mine. The current system FORCES PvE players to BECOME the content for PvP players. As duly noted by @SAWhix . PvP players have the risk of losing nothing. The ship has no value, a respawn has no penalty, and nobody in their right mind hunts and attacks other players with loot on board. SAWhix pointed out the truth. PvP players get off on not just sinking others, but taking EVERYTHING. The cherry on top is if someone rages on the mic. SAWhix, thank you for being honest.

@AngryCoconut16 we have already gone in circles on this. However, The more I researched past interviews, and thought of all my hours in testing, I am beginning to believe that Reputation (Experience Points) was originally supposed to be awarded on voyage complete, and it is something they need to fix. Here, I will post them again, from the mouth of Mike Chapman....

"Some of the multiplayer survival games we were looking at previously – such as DayZ and Rust – they had that drama, but the lows were so cripplingly low, you'd play for hours and hours and might lose absolutely everything." Mike Chapman referring to what they did NOT want to have happen to players

"All we're going to take are the deferred gold locked in the chest, bounty skulls, or animals, that feels like the right balance to ensure that you've got that paranoia that we treasure" Mike Chapman referring to everything taken, except reputation (XP)

So, as it stands now, in my eyes, this is no longer a proposal from players. But a question as to if the system is actually working as intended. I have no doubts many of us will continue to push until we have an answer one way or another. I'd say those quotes are very telling!

Don't generalize to other PvPers, i'm worse than most :D. Others might be nicer. Also, there are no PVE players in an open sea pirate pvp game. We're all in the shark tank.
Also don't get me wrong, I will attack no matter the treasure I have on my ship, I value the fun of pvp more than gold or progression in the game. We all have the same to lose, just that some care more than others about it.

@touchdown1504 said in [Give us our XP for finishing a voyage,

Edit:
"Some of the multiplayer survival games we were looking at previously – such as DayZ and Rust – they had that drama, but the lows were so cripplingly low, you'd play for hours and hours and might lose absolutely everything." Mike Chapman referring to what they did NOT want to have happen to players

I hate rust for that, not only can they trash your base you spent days working on they can also evict you and take over it completely! Even worse when you respawn into a locked room with no escape... Ark was pretty bad as well but the main problem their was p***y boy alphas who were scared of letting anyone get started...

@angrycoconut16 its hardly a reward early we killed the skeleton the mission is complete, rep there and then, gold on completion. why should a pvper get rep when they didn't do the mission? they should just get the gold. If they want rep let em do the missions...

@pantang said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 its hardly a reward early we killed the skeleton the mission is complete, rep there and then, gold on completion. why should a pvper get rep when they didn't do the mission? they should just get the gold. If they want rep let em do the missions...

We do missions too, we just don't lose the loot on the way to the outpost and sometimes while sailing to an outpost to turn in we find more loot on people's ships.

@enpixelate said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Although most people seem to agree with me, a few of you are arguing about realism.

LoL.
"Yeah, this ain't realistic... now let me climb into a cannon and shoot myself across 500yards"

@pantang If the mission is complete why do you not get your gold? Simple: the mission is NOT complete... (yes I know it says voyage complete but we have already established that is inconsistent)

They should get rep because they have stolen your loot. It doesn't matter that you killed the skeleton or dug up the treasure... Let me copy something from Rare's design director for SoT, Mike Chapman:

''It's an interesting contrast. On one hand, what we're saying is that we want to be the most welcoming and inclusive multiplayer game ever – on the other hand, we're giving you this rich immersive world where you can step in and roleplay "pirates" with your friends. We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost. We believe in the paranoia of having that stuff on the ship because you know that someone can come and take it.''

The stuff is never truly yours until you get to the outpost, that is why the mission isn't truly complete till you have handed in. AND that is the purpose of having to return to the outpost, so you actively have to protect the loot. I'm not saying you always have to defend it, but I am saying that if you suddenly give people rep reward without the jouney to an outpost, they are NEVER going to have to defend it to get progression right? That's wrong. The game shouldn't work like that. The very fact that you are all concerned about the progression shows it is the more valuable of the two. By giving full rep early is really minimises the sense of risk and the reason for defending your loot. Lets face it, as currently there is not much to spend your gold on, thus gold is sort of redundant, rep is the thing everyone is interested in, which is why it's even more important to proportion it correctly and not give everyone a free ride to PL. The ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM progress/rep/exp which should be awarded on digging up chests, killing skeleton captains etc etc, is 50%, no more.

@angrycoconut16 well why not have a pvp rep instead of them getting the faction rep.... otherwise what is the point of pve we might as well all stay at port and wait for people to come home.... making us nothing more than common thiefs.... Its a compromise between pve & pvp and in my eyes would make it much more fun and also stop people like the first pirate legend and others who just hop sessions looking for full ships cashing in... Solves many problems and make PVP folk work that lil harder if they want to be a real legend.....

@pantang I agree! And I have made a suggestion about PvP rep https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/49649/new-faction-combat-pvp if anyone is interested. Completely different discussion and off topic for this thread, but I do agree, a separate rep would make more sense.

Personally I don't understand what the merchant faction is all about. Asking pirates to go and collect pigs is bizarre. A PvP faction would make more sense.

The hop sessions could easily be countered by not giving rewards unless all pirates were there to begin a quest, perhaps making quests require 100% votes for instance.. (although could cause problems if you aren't with friends..)

Having said that... lets face it they are already getting gold which they haven't killed for/dug up themselves, the only reason rep/progression exists is because it's a game... I don't think it's too far-fetched that they get that too for handing in, especially as Rare's intention for chests was to provide a physical object to actively fight over for rewards.

@sawhix said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Don't generalize to other PvPers, i'm worse than most :D. Others might be nicer. Also, there are no PVE players in an open sea pirate pvp game. We're all in the shark tank.

You make very important points in this quote and I want to clarify. Everyone should be open to attack from everyone else. people who are not observant deserve to lose their loot to those more keen and skilled at pvp.

Also don't get me wrong, I will attack no matter the treasure I have on my ship, I value the fun of pvp more than gold or progression in the game. We all have the same to lose, just that some care more than others about it.

Now to the important part. Not everyone is like you, most care about their progress. Playing the way you want is fine and great but why should other who prefer a more casual game where they can progress be punished so harshly. This game is about playing how you want and for PvP players it’s great because there isn’t any penalty for doing so. However for those who don’t want that the penalty is a reset button. Currently getting sunk with loot is no different then getting disconnected. I can safely say most PvP players are doing so because it’s fun and the loot is a bonus. So why would you not support a change that makes other players happy and doesn’t change your gameplay experience at all? Selfishness is the only reason.

This change would do nothing but improve all gamers expirence and I doubt PvP players would notice at all. It has to potential to increase PvP so it’s could also be a bonus to pvp players in that respect as players would be more willing to fight since they don’t have as big of a loss.