PvE players trying to ruin the game

@otaku-panda-cx Yes I honestly think it is too much to ask. The game is planned to be PvP - if you start injecting easements for PvE-only players, these detract from the planned, and baked-in PvP and reduce the game experience for everyone.

The cartoonish graphics do a great job of masking what is otherwise a hardcore PvP game - and in a game like this, or others that share the same philosophy, you will ALWAYS have people who don't want to PvP for a specific time.

If I have 20 chests on me, and someone else is chasing me, I'm a purely PvE player at that point aren't I? So why should me wanting to avoid fighting that guy right now affect his experience in the PvP oriented game he's playing?

My point is, you will never have 100% mutual and consensual PvP experiences in this game. So giving players special permission or abilities to avoid PvP really just creates a method that punishes PvP'ers for spending their time PvP'ing. If you put in a safe zone, that is the #1 spot for anyone who you would want to PvP to hide to make you wait or unable to attack them at all.

The last open world game i played with pvp had forum warriors raging day and night about how unfair it was that big bullies attacked them while they was collecting trinkets or how unfair it was that bullies attacked them when they afk sailed ( they got bored they say) or that bullies who new how to fight would attack them.
They raged day and night until safe zones where put in. Within hours the pve safe zone crowd began raging the safe zones where to small and didnt let them do more questing IN the safe zones.
Eventually the game became more safe zones than pvp zones and yes you guessed it the pvp players quit and the pve players started complaining nobody was buying all the ships they built...DUH nobody could pvp so who needed ships.
That game died. Ive seen the same problem in lots of open world pvp games.
Im curious to see how this game plays out.

@scheefinator This is the problem with any "hardcore PvP" game. To the guy who just wants to do his voyages and get turned in, any PvP is griefing because he feels grief.

However, if you allow "safe zones" or the ability to turn off PvP for yourself, what you do is you actually grief the PvP players who bought and are trying to play the PvP they were sold on, who PvP'd another player like they were supposed to. Put in a safe zone? The guy whose about to get his ship sunk is going to bolt for that safe zone so he can repair and save his chests.

@pocket-fox-au The problem with that is not only are you splitting the potential playerbase, but you're destroying a large part of the game's content and purpose in order to give them a more comfortable experience. Pandering to people is not a good thing, especially when you sacrifice your game for it.

A huge part of the game's design is you are vulnerable to being pirated after you've collected chests and other items - for traders, being afraid of PvP is the only conceivable danger besides storms.

Essentially speaking, if you open a PvE only server on this game, you invite a thousand complaints: Why do we have cannons with no enemies to shoot? Why is trading so easy, you just drive from port to port? Give us enemies to fight! Put AI in the water! Make every system in the game 100x more complicated since no one can shoot me while I do it.

The potential for PvP is an over-arching theme for this game, and the idea is built into everything you do.

@ant-heuser-kush said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@xdoughx said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Well, I came here with a large popcorn for the comments.. Sadly it ran out long before I finished reading the latest one. I can see this is a heated topic from both sides of the argument'ees
Here are my thoughts on the matter. (not that it'll count as I'm sure, I'll be told like others my view doesn't count as I'm leaning a little more on the PVE side of things lol)..
PVP griefing needs to be stamped out. I'm all for the odd encounter, but when Boaty McKnobjockey is camping at outposts, or spawn killing, you alienate a huge portion of players who want to explore and chill with friends. The "it's a pirate game" argument literally holds no water (pun intended). Read up on nautical history, it wasn't as much a free for all as all the PVP'ers are making out which makes me lol.
If the game stays this way, it'll still be one I purchase and play, but kind of like The Division etc, it'll lose a huge part of the fan base and will be the worse for it. Jeez, it took Division so long to get better and even then couldn't save itself.
What I have noticed 100% is that when Alpha testing, this game was solid and not a mad max free for all no lube fest. During the alpha you'd meet players share a few drinks, go off on separate ways with a wave and see you later guys. Yes there were still encounters of fighting but not every single instance. Then the preorder lot got added and the proverbial hit the fan. For some reason the beta just seemed to be more about PVP than the journey and enjoyment of treasure hunting and exploring alongside friends with the added risk of attack. I wouldn't call the chance of a cannon barrage in the beta a risk. It's sadly, certainty.
Safe zones, PVE/ PVP dedicated servers, Passive mode (GTA style) could be introduced pretty easily, without spoiling the gaming experience for anyone.
But like I've read here before in this post since the OP.. Maybe we should just get better and learn to play the game.... The game that includes PVE and PVP... The same game that PVP virtual warriors are spoiling for the PVE players.
Before you ask or assume, I've not been ganked on shore for chests, or spawn killed at mermaids. But have had the white screen of death spawn killing on my own ship happen quite a few times, and every ship encounter has been hostile bar the odd one in the beta.
Myself and friends have witnessed galleons attacking sloops when docked, for which we punished them most swiftly, sinking them on the spot. Later we saw the sloop guys again. All stood on deck waving, they sailed over and we played some tunes side by side, a wave and see you later guys, was a cool moment and they thanks us for helping as they'd been chased for over an hour. I mean who chases a smaller crew for an hour, what's to gain?. Personally, attacking smaller crews is cowardly and nothing short of trolling.
You wanna go 4 on 4 that's fine, but also, (side note) if you win, win with a semblance of honor and respect, move on, don't spawn camp.
In short, I'm for both PVE (mainly my main interest), but also enjoy the PVP element (at times, not 100% of instances of seeing ships)
All this game needs is some tweaking, I'm sure the devs and powers that be have a plan, I'm just hoping it will be good for both sides of the argument.
Like a fat kid on a bike, it just needs to work on it's balance.

I agree. And this game will fail if people treat it like the new PUBG. That's not what the game is about. I love PvP, but SoT magic doesn't stem from PvP. It stems from the exploration and enjoying the game world, finding the secrets, taking down the Kraken, getting Athena's treasure, and rising in the ranks making a name for yourself. PvP players will not get to enjoy any of that... and if the griefing is bad, the community will dwindle down because no one wants to be forced to play a certain way. That's the beauty of this game... you can play how you want, but forcing people to play how you want isn't right.

The enjoyment comes from exploring the world? The tiny tiny tiny little world with a few small to tiny islands in it?
The entire game world can be explored in a day.....then what? Im not saying pvp is the only thing to do but to say exploring is a huge part...hmm

I had an idea for the problem this thread is trying to discuss but seems more like arguing as I read it.

Add a game mechanic for curses - they would cost money, and mind you not be cheap for different mechanics. Each would have a time limit and a location to get the curse.

EXAMPLE FOR THE PVE TYPE PLAYER: A ghost ship curse that allows your ship to be cursed as a ghost ship which basically makes you a ghost going around doing your exploring and treasure finding. But there is still danger because it has a timer to wear off. This would not be a cheap curse so people would have to choose when to spend the money or when to deal with the risk of open waters but still giving them the ability to opt out of PVP if they so choose.

EXAMPLE FOR THE PVP MINDED PLAYER: A gold ship curse that would make defeating your ship worth a reward, and at the same time give you extra bounty when plundering other ships. But this would be at the cost of your ship being heard, and seen at greater distances via brighter fires and sounds or something. This would net in you being a bigger target for more combat.

EXAMPLE FOR THE PVPVE MINDED PLAYER: A proximity curse, where your ship is not visible unless close enough (like reducing the visibility from other ships) not stupidly close, but giving you a little more edge for evasive maneuvers or even stealth runs to steal a chest or two from other ships.

FOR YOUR AVERAGE GREIFER OR TROLL: A Curse that if the same pirate crew kills you or sinks your ship a certain number of times in a time limit (frequency TBD) they are cursed with a thousand grogs, basically so drunk they miss every shot and become easy targets unable to walk, steer straight as well (possible to inflict damage on their own ship for driving under the influence). Also, giving them some sort of visible aura so people can truly identify who is just being a troll or playing to harass others.

While I know curses could be looked upon as silly and not "REAL" pirate history. They were part of the lore of the sea. And even if you argue they weren't real, some people used curses to their advantage -- Like storing gold on an island that is cursed because everyone is afraid to go there.

Just an idea. Not everyone will be happy with it but figure I should suggest something instead of trying to fuel either side of the argument.

Currently, PvP is one of the only real consequence / obstacle in the game while sailing that takes any skill to manage. Literally the only other ones in the game are skeletons and sharks. There is no PvE ships to fight or anything of the sort. The only other thing is a storm. Which if you sink from that, you just were not paying attention.

"Safe zones?" I mean, come on now... If it weren't for PvP, then the game would just be "Get the chest, sail to outpost, turn it in." I lost 12 chests last night and it sucked, but we laughed about it, re-strategized for next time, and moved on. Am I really the only one that thinks the balance is actually good?

For those saying that there is no consequence for fighting another ship, you are mostly right. However if you have a lot of loot, and so do they, then it makes it interesting. I believe that something as simple as a ship costing money to repair or replace, provided that you have money, could assist with this issue.

@raise-the-blk said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Currently, PvP is one of the only real consequence / obstacle in the game while sailing that takes any skill to manage. Literally the only other ones in the game are skeletons and sharks. There is no PvE ships to fight or anything of the sort. The only other thing is a storm. Which if you sink from that, you just were not paying attention.

"Safe zones?" I mean, come on now... If it weren't for PvP, then the game would just be "Get the chest, sail to outpost, turn it in." I lost 12 chests last night and it sucked, but we laughed about it, re-strategized for next time, and moved on. Am I really the only one that thinks the balance is actually good?

For those saying that there is no consequence for fighting another ship, you are mostly right. However if you have a lot of loot, and so do they, then it makes it interesting. I believe that something as simple as a ship costing money to repair or replace, provided that you have money, could assist with this issue.

I can understand your view but you are also missing the biggest (or first) issue the safe zone people are asking for... They want Rare to confirm "what content is missing from game play right now?"

Rare's decision to keep those details under wraps is making everyone uneasy that there really wont be any changes & the current gam play is actually not well devised.

@raise-the-blk said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Currently, PvP is one of the only real consequence / obstacle in the game while sailing that takes any skill to manage. Literally the only other ones in the game are skeletons and sharks. There is no PvE ships to fight or anything of the sort. The only other thing is a storm. Which if you sink from that, you just were not paying attention.

"Safe zones?" I mean, come on now... If it weren't for PvP, then the game would just be "Get the chest, sail to outpost, turn it in." I lost 12 chests last night and it sucked, but we laughed about it, re-strategized for next time, and moved on. Am I really the only one that thinks the balance is actually good?

For those saying that there is no consequence for fighting another ship, you are mostly right. However if you have a lot of loot, and so do they, then it makes it interesting. I believe that something as simple as a ship costing money to repair or replace, provided that you have money, could assist with this issue.

Yup....go get chest, turn in chest. Rinse and repeat forever. You literally just described what these pve guys actually want but cant come out and say.
These guys ( regardless of the game) just want to play Farmville.

@blue-reloaded said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@misterdoomed said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@raise-the-blk said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Currently, PvP is one of the only real consequence / obstacle in the game while sailing that takes any skill to manage. Literally the only other ones in the game are skeletons and sharks. There is no PvE ships to fight or anything of the sort. The only other thing is a storm. Which if you sink from that, you just were not paying attention.

"Safe zones?" I mean, come on now... If it weren't for PvP, then the game would just be "Get the chest, sail to outpost, turn it in." I lost 12 chests last night and it sucked, but we laughed about it, re-strategized for next time, and moved on. Am I really the only one that thinks the balance is actually good?

For those saying that there is no consequence for fighting another ship, you are mostly right. However if you have a lot of loot, and so do they, then it makes it interesting. I believe that something as simple as a ship costing money to repair or replace, provided that you have money, could assist with this issue.

Yup....go get chest, turn in chest. Rinse and repeat forever. You literally just described what these pve guys actually want but cant come out and say.
These guys ( regardless of the game) just want to play Farmville.

To be fair, nobody is actually saying that.

The argument seems to be over those that only want to camp and PvP the people putting in the effort because there is no downside.

I don't think anyone is complaining about meeting a ship on the sea when you both are questing.

Ive been playing online pvp games since the days of AOL and its always been the same. I know they dont come out and say they want to just play Farmville but after a thousand pvp games and watching devs keep making changes to accommodate the ez mode crowd ive learned the ez mofe crowd will NEVER be satisfied if ANY pvp is allowed that they dont win.
The complaints will never stop but just keep.changing.
I do agree spawn camping need to be removed or not allowed but other than that....

@hm-indubitably
Its not just a part of the fun when all that happens is griefing. Isnt questing and finding treasure apart of this game? Because with the non stop griefing it doesnt seem like it

@crimson-bzd said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@pocket-fox-au The problem with that is not only are you splitting the potential playerbase, but you're destroying a large part of the game's content and purpose in order to give them a more comfortable experience. Pandering to people is not a good thing, especially when you sacrifice your game for it.

A huge part of the game's design is you are vulnerable to being pirated after you've collected chests and other items - for traders, being afraid of PvP is the only conceivable danger besides storms.

Essentially speaking, if you open a PvE only server on this game, you invite a thousand complaints: Why do we have cannons with no enemies to shoot? Why is trading so easy, you just drive from port to port? Give us enemies to fight! Put AI in the water! Make every system in the game 100x more complicated since no one can shoot me while I do it.

The potential for PvP is an over-arching theme for this game, and the idea is built into everything you do.

The point is with all the GRIEFING IT FEELS PVP ONLY. THE GRIEFING NEEDS TO BE CURBED OR IT WILL BECOME ARK SURVIVAL

@blue-reloaded said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@misterdoomed said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@blue-reloaded said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@misterdoomed said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@raise-the-blk said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Currently, PvP is one of the only real consequence / obstacle in the game while sailing that takes any skill to manage. Literally the only other ones in the game are skeletons and sharks. There is no PvE ships to fight or anything of the sort. The only other thing is a storm. Which if you sink from that, you just were not paying attention.

"Safe zones?" I mean, come on now... If it weren't for PvP, then the game would just be "Get the chest, sail to outpost, turn it in." I lost 12 chests last night and it sucked, but we laughed about it, re-strategized for next time, and moved on. Am I really the only one that thinks the balance is actually good?

For those saying that there is no consequence for fighting another ship, you are mostly right. However if you have a lot of loot, and so do they, then it makes it interesting. I believe that something as simple as a ship costing money to repair or replace, provided that you have money, could assist with this issue.

Yup....go get chest, turn in chest. Rinse and repeat forever. You literally just described what these pve guys actually want but cant come out and say.
These guys ( regardless of the game) just want to play Farmville.

To be fair, nobody is actually saying that.

The argument seems to be over those that only want to camp and PvP the people putting in the effort because there is no downside.

I don't think anyone is complaining about meeting a ship on the sea when you both are questing.

Ive been playing online pvp games since the days of AOL and its always been the same. I know they dont come out and say they want to just play Farmville but after a thousand pvp games and watching devs keep making changes to accommodate the ez mode crowd ive learned the ez mofe crowd will NEVER be satisfied if ANY pvp is allowed that they dont win.
The complaints will never stop but just keep.changing.
I do agree spawn camping need to be removed or not allowed but other than that....

Why so aggressive? Especially when it looks like you haven't actually played the game.

I've been playing since early Alpha and I'd agree with most of what they say. There is a problem of balance between those that play for the quests and those that only PvP--mainly, there isn't any risk or fear for the PvP side. If they die or fail, they simply respawn and repeat.

Aggressive? L**o ok i see the problem. You win. Have fun.

@noose-9er-9er
Your ideas are interesting and make work as a good compromise.. the curse thing that affects griefers would really help

@psucodemonkey said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@kendoroland said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@psucodemonkey said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Edit: Just thought of the problem with my own suggestion. It could tip the balance of the server, if 16 of the 20 people in the game, were hanging out on the island dancing and drinking grog. It would be a lonely sea for those last four people.

Exactly. This game is not intended for players to be AFKing at a safezone. As I mentioned before the only way a safezone would work is if there was a common area that people could load into before starting a match. Saying we need hubs in game for people to meetup is really bordering on an MMO sandbox which this game is not. I can understand why people want to take a break for a second and not have to worry. If you want to do that you should just leave the game and start another when your ready. This game is not meant to have players staying in a session and mingling the whole time. Its a casual capture the flag shooter with naval combat and adventure elements.

After playing the beta, it seems to me it has way more potential for the adventure elements you mention than it does for pvp. Currently I am one manning a ship and can easily avoid encounters. I have no way to know until the game releases. Either way I can find something to do. Just a matter whether my friends play too and it becomes a long term thing or I get my money's worth and play a short time. Looking forward to the release to find out.

I agree there is way more potential for adventuring and pve then there is pvp.. i hate pvp only... if this game is going to be just pvp i wont play... i was excited for the adventuring mostly.

@ant-heuser-kush
Well said. People are treating sea of thieves as SEA OF BATTLE ROYALE

@roughmonkey0 I have yet to play the game, tell me, are you able to talk in game with other pirates who aren't in your crew? Like proximity chat?

@th4tdudeth0 said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@kendoroland I agree. I kind of enjoy the constant tenseness that comes with the open PVP world. I enjoy always being on my toes, climbing the crows nest and scoping out the area for nearby ships. It makes the game more pirate! It can be difficult to accomplish if you sail alone, but that comes with the territory. There are so many different strategies one can use in this game to make themselves more "safe".

No one asking for separate servers is demanding that experience be taken away from you. Quite the opposite actually.

@misterdoomed said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

Every GOOD open world pvp game ive ever played has been ruined by pve players who are not content with having 90% of all games marketed to them and also want the few pvp games changed to suit them.
Any open world pvp game ive played has been ruined when devs started to listen to the pve crows and make safe zones or limit who can pvp who or where you can pvp or to limit pvp to " fair and balanced " pvp , which is impossible because no matter what its never fair because a high skill player will beat a bad player and thats " not fair" .
All that is ever needed to a way to prevent REAL griefing and REAL trolling.
Keep in mind ill be playing solo 99% of the time and am well aware of what ill be facing and im ok with it.

That's why some of us want separate servers, PvPvE and PvE, to avoid a scenario where compromises are made in response to the market resulting in a watered-down experience for both groups. Too many games have tried shared worlds or cross-over and have failed to find the right balance. Instead of simply adding something fun to PvE, they have to first determine how it impacts PvP or vice versa and then they proceed to modify it to accommodate one or the other so it results in player abilities being neutered because it's too powerful in PvP or some aspect in PvP being compromised because it doesn't work well for the PvE environment.

I don't understand why anyone would advocate for that but I understand what Rare is trying to accomplish here and it looks like a lot of fun for the PvPvE crowd and it just may work. All I ask is for a PvE server to avoid that experiment. And you know what, if they figure out that formula, I may just jump in and try it occasionally (maybe). I'm just a sucker for co-op PvE games and that's where my heart is and this game could be great for both crowds.

Pretty sure the whole community doesn't think that way. Personally, i'm all for good cooperation while treasure hunting and doing raids. However, I can also understand the love of PvP for this game, and i'll immerse in that too. But saying that PvE players are RUINING a game is a bit of a stretch. Most of the time, I say its the PvPers that refuse to respect that someone DOESN'T want to fight them that ruins the game.

@techstomper said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@roughmonkey0 Look all i want is 1 safe zone cause even IRL there was always an area that pirates had so they could go to do things..do i want an area i can go without any risk to sell my stuff? no but i want an area to be social and do games or show off my character...without the risk of being shot for no reason xD

I advocated for this but then I realized how safe zones don't work as it just pushes the problem outward instead of solving it and having only one would be worse. It'd be too predictable as everyone would know where you're going.

Funny thing is the OP is asking for an Xbox only server option because some PC players aren't using party chat and are ruining his experience. Sounds familiar.

@roughmonkey0 said in Need an option to disable cross play:

@g0a
I agree, also you can not party chat with pc players if you get a random pc guy on your team.

Having an Xbox only server option would be a good thing.

@ssjvegeta42 The literal name of the game is Sea of Thieves the key word being "Thieves" its the whole purpose of the game. If it keeps happening move to a different outpost and try again or go to a different game.

@hm-indubitably said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@ssjvegeta42 The literal name of the game is Sea of Thieves the key word being "Thieves" its the whole purpose of the game. If it keeps happening move to a different outpost and try again or go to a different game.

Literally? Like it's a sea of dead bodies?

@roughmonkey0 In GTA V there is a system to deter players from killing npcs and other players aka police. I think it would be interesting to see a deterrent in Outposts like npcs would dislike you in someway for a certain amount or something or something alot more potent like certain outposts wont allow you on there island.

@hm-indubitably said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@ssjvegeta42 The literal name of the game is Sea of Thieves the key word being "Thieves" its the whole purpose of the game. If it keeps happening move to a different outpost and try again or go to a different game.

And if they don't steal anything, what game are they playing then? Sea of Ship Sinkers?

@mrloadedpotato said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@techstomper said in PvE players trying to ruin the game:

@roughmonkey0 Look all i want is 1 safe zone cause even IRL there was always an area that pirates had so they could go to do things..do i want an area i can go without any risk to sell my stuff? no but i want an area to be social and do games or show off my character...without the risk of being shot for no reason xD

I advocated for this but then I realized how safe zones don't work as it just pushes the problem outward instead of solving it and having only one would be worse. It'd be too predictable as everyone would know where you're going.

You know, its a real simple solution for those that don't want ot be attacked randomly. Never sail alone. If you have a bunch of friends, and each of you has a ship, do you REALLY think some PvPer is just gonna wade right into a flotilla of ships, KNOWING you'll both target them? Come on now...Smart solutions. In a game like Sea of Thieves, you don't need a safe zone. You just need to be smart. Though I WILL say that outposts should be safe zones within a certain radius of the island. No need to ruin the fun for ALL of us, just set it so that you can't be attacked or attack when you're docked at an outpost to keep people from camping for chests.