A Sandbox needs Sand

  • ShootHere4EXP
    Captain
    Insider

    I very much want this game to work, but I'm very afraid its going to have a brief shining moment on the waves of fame and then sink.

    Why?

    I'm already seeing the edges of the sandbox... literally.

    A great Sandbox needs Sand, and lots of it.
    The sand is the variable, that maleable thing that presents infinite possibilities. Today I can build a castle, tommorrow dig tunnels and bury secrets. If i dig deeper and deeper I know I might be rewarded and find treasure...Its the seemingly endless possibilities of the sandbox that light a fire in your heart, that make you want to form it and leave your own mark.

    In Sea of Thieves the Sand is the Sea, its supposed to present endless possibilities on the horizon. When this game does that, its on point. Seeing white sails on the horizon is thrilling... and the looming threat of a Kraken beneath the waves is chilling.

    But how deep is this sandbox?.... After playing the beta i'm concerned that there really isn't much sand in this sandbox. I am very much behind the design philosophy of this game, ditching statistical leveling and making it about the endless possibilities of stories that happen with your crew. But if you're going to do that, you have to really own it... that sandbox has to be enormous.

    But I'm already seeing the edges... the thrill of the possibilities that first came to me are quickly becoming limited. I know that island is going to have the same skellys I saw on the previous. The different chests all give the same gold, the galleon I saw is the same as the previous. The edge of the map.... will we sail off the edge of the world dramatically in an enormous waterfall?? No we just sink.

    For this sandbox to work it needs to be deep, I need to know that I'll be rewarded for digging deeper and deeper down. From what I've played of the beta, I've already found the bottom.

    If this beta is anywhere near the scope of the final game's posssibilities and sandbox, I urge the developers to delay the game and flesh out this GREAT IDEA (yes it is a great idea of a game).

    This game has extraordinary potential, but if I've already dug to the bottom of your sandbox and found no treasure chest, then this game will quickly go the way of No Man's Sky.

  • Login To Reply
    20
    Posts
    22.3k
    Views
  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    Can I suggest you may be digging in the wrong place?

    This game is not about getting "the thing". This game is about getting there, with your crew. Showing off to your friends. Convincing them not to go after those sails. Convincing those sails to join you, and then part ways and engage in a three way battle. Dropping a voyage on the table that makes your crew go "I'm changing my vote, we need to do that one first $$". Pulling out your pistol and on another pirate and him saying "Wait, don't shoot... Tell me where you got that gorgeous gun first".

    Is all of this in the beta? Of course not. But it is coming.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery i think he understands the player interaction based story sandbox aspect... we just need a LOT more variables, and this is still my favorite game right now, and nothing personal but some the responses to contructive and realistic posts like this just shaming people or saying the game isnt for them is ridiculous.

    I have no hard feelings for anyone on this forum regardless of some past discussions, but literally @Erinom3 posted the other day being like "this isnt a sandbox! Its a playground" and that just made me laugh.. arent sandboxs small parts of a full playground? Isnt that metaphor really the same thing just even on a larger scale? Yet it was a response to a post like this, with him defending the game like rare are all little babies who if they hear feedback like that will cry and cancel or (i almost hope) delay it. Yes the game is amazing and full of fun encounters and potential, but for the playground metaphor to make sense, there would have to be a multitude of variables and "toys" that take up appropriate space on the playground. Thats simply not the case, not even for the sandbox in the corner of the playground. anyone can blindly defend rare with the hopes that they wont be disappointed. Dosnt mean the game dosnt have a WoW like (but not mmo) potential, that caters to all playstyles effectively, We simply need a lot more content across the board. Bringig this up dosnt mean we think we are entitled to it, its just what we want for this game, if some players dont want it they would be better off saying they like the game to be simpler than we want, rather than pretend like some of us arent making good points, atleast on the basis that the game could be this complex if rare intended that. the fact they are so vague dosnt help either perspective. No offense erinom3 you most likely meant playground in the sense that its the people not the toys that make the experience, and i wouldnt disagree, but why does that mean the game shouldnt have sandbox style variables so that players can actually be the pirate they want to be, rather than the choices now of being a courier for npc clones, or perceived as a troll because pvp has no meaning. I know the full game wont be that simple at all, but we cant all sit here and fanboy rare and hope with just partially blind faith we will have our hopes realized, we can/should ask/tell them our hopes, like the OP has done and many before him for 2 years now. I dont think most posts like this come from entitlement or too high expectations, but because of the potential we all agree exists, and the vague nature of almost all info about the game. The attempt to be vague to avoid a No Mans Sky scenario seems to have created a similar disconnect in expectations imo. The game is undoubtedly unique and amazing from the foundation we have seen. Wanting more is not a bad thing.

    The thing is we are here to give feedback on the features in game, not to bolster rares ego that just the social element is enough. I agree with their design intent that it plays a major role, its good they realize this but literally that is a big part of the design of any game with multiplayer, the players are the avatars of that sandbox, but saying that all of it comes down to our imagination isnt helpful for them developing features. It gives them an excuse, and from a testers perspective is a cop out. Some people can have fun playing solitaire over and over, that dosnt make solitaire the game of the year.

  • oophus84

    The game in its current form is no real sandbox. A real sandbox-game is a game the players form. This game have nothing of sorts. There is no player driven content in this game except for player interaction through voice chat and/or PvP. Its more or less a huge deathmatch with added bring X, find Y and transport Z - rinse and repeat.

    Let us craft our own ports, ships and gear. Let us create quests and riddles. Let us hide loot, and loot that matters. Not nessessary in the forms of +statistical benefits, but maybe materials for bigger ships. etc

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo I would just like to say that @Erinom3 stole that from me haha

    And I still believe it will be a playground, we just only have the slide right now.

  • LIFEWCOKE
    Commander
    Boatswain
    Founder

    Anyone else think of this when thinking about playing in the sandbox?

    Those were my faves...

  • Ethnine
    Founder

    @shoothere4exp Look out, the fanboys are going to eat you alive mate. Constructive feedback isn't welcomed by many of these hardcore fans wearing rose colored glasses. You have been warned.

    In all honestly the game will launch with some very lite content and their big revel will be the world bosses. The fans will still say its okay, until 6 months later the game is dead and there's nothing left to do. After a year later with a number of updates and additions the game will finally come into its own and have the content in it that we all spent 2 years trying to convince Rare it needed to begin with.

    If I am wrong, one of you crazed fans can have my first 1000 gold. :)

    #NMS-PirateEdition

  • ShootHere4EXP
    Captain
    Insider

    @a-cranky-eskimo said in A Sandbox needs Sand:

    @erikinthebakery i think he understands the player interaction based story sandbox aspect... we just need a LOT more variables,

    BINGO!
    @A-Cranky-Eskimo Thanks for sticking up for me. You and I we're critiquing it because we want to make this game better, we want to see it fulfill its awesome potential. I'll happily become its advocate when I think its reached that point.
    @erikinthebakery I enjoy the "journey", I just need more tools and possibilities at my disposal in order to make it a meaningful journey. If I'm doing the exact same thing in the exact same way as everyone else... then it isnt really a meaningful and authentic story for me is it?
    Thats why I want more sand to play with, more ways for me to leave my own mark.

    @ethnine said in A Sandbox needs Sand:

    @shoothere4exp Look out, the fanboys are going to eat you alive mate. Constructive feedback isn't welcomed by many of these hardcore fans wearing rose colored glasses. You have been warned.

    In all honestly the game will launch with some very lite content and their big revel will be the world bosses. The fans will still say its okay, until 6 months later the game is dead and there's nothing left to do. After a year later with a number of updates and additions the game will finally come into its own and have the content in it that we all spent 2 years trying to convince Rare it needed to begin with.

    Lol thank you and noted! I'll watch my six, If I wanted this game to fail I wouldnt spend the time critiquing it. I think this has so much potential, and I would hate for it to die because like you said " it didn't come into its own in time."

  • SakiKojiro
    Founder

    In it's current state the game is more like one big roleplay server. I don't even know why people would describe it as a "sandbox". Because it's big or something? The islands need actual events or interesting things to occasionally take place on them. The sea needs monsters and events. There needs to be some kind of NPC navy or hell even player joinable Navy/Bounty hunter faction to give our being a pirate meaning.

    I'd also like if each player had to pick one melee (Supposedly there will be axes and rapiers at one point) and one gun. Having an option and making a choice is almost always more engaging to the player than throwing everything at them all at once.

  • SakiKojiro
    Founder

    The game already does it's online interactions like Dark Souls, why not give us something like covenants to join? Some defend certain islands. Some will stop greedy pirates with too many chests. Some could just be joined to the NPC factions and all battle eachother.

  • PulsarPanda
    Marauder
    Founder

    The ability to build more things would be nice.

  • Suave Beard
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery said in A Sandbox needs Sand:

    Can I suggest you may be digging in the wrong place?

    This game is about getting there, with your crew.

    Except, "there" in SoT is unfortunately "right over there", and is no different than right over "there". The very few landmasses there are all feel the same, don't change, are very close, and in a very small "world". Making it a bit worse is that all of the locations are utterly barren.

    There is no point in going "there" or anywhere, because it is the same thing all over.

    The exception to being barren are the few hidden Captain's chests, and the like, all of which contribute to the same goal of "faction rep" for Digging Simulator: Fancy Hat Edition.

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @shoothere4exp said in A Sandbox needs Sand:

    @erikinthebakery I enjoy the "journey", I just need more tools and possibilities at my disposal in order to make it a meaningful journey. If I'm doing the exact same thing in the exact same way as everyone else... then it isnt really a meaningful and authentic story for me is it?
    Thats why I want more sand to play with, more ways for me to leave my own mark.

    I do agree we need more tools. Rare has been showing us more tools, we just don't have them yet.

    They've shown us at release we are getting two more Trading companies (Order of Souls - who send you to kill bosses, and Merchant's Alliance which give you either "bring these things here by this time" or "gather these things and bring them to me" quests). The things we are gathering for the Merchants include multiple types of chicken, pigs and snakes (as well as the gunpowder barrels in the game already). With the live animals, you not only need to catch them, you need to keep them alive! Cannon strikes can kill them, if your boat takes on water they can drown, etc.

    They've hinted at being able to get something (I'm guessing different missions) in found "messages in bottles"

    Have you seen any of the hidden coral reefs in the game? They are totally unmarked, gorgeous places to swim and explore. Rare has shown that we'll be able to find treasures (not chests, the example they showed was a goblet) hidden in those underwater caves.

    There is some mechanic I don't completely understand where we are unlocking "Emblems" for doing certain tasks (turning in X number of chests from shipwrecks, for example). If I understood correctly, we are going to be able to choose to add one of these "titles" under our gamertag in-game, to show off. But, we a can also choose to display one of our earlier, less grand titles, to hide our experience.

    There are twice as many clothing/item customization options coming guaranteed (from the pre-order options). I can't imagine there won't be a lot of this type of things added in. With the addition of hooks and peg legs (which we can see in the pre-order bonuses)

    They've said we'll have character customization. Based on the fact that I've seen my same character model with a different skin shade, and our hair comes off when we are on the Ferry, I can reasonably guess that the bare minimum will be choosing the hair and skin tone for a diverse range of preset character models.

    They have an employee dedicated to planning live campaigns (at least as of last May )

    They also keep mentioning this "Golden Age of Piracy" thing. No idea what that is.

    Not trying to bash on you, just showing you some of the tools hiding in the shed. (at least the ones mentioned on this site and here

    Signed - A rose-colored glasses wearing fanboy who is going to eat you alive, mate

  • Natsu v2
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery Is all of that you mentioned seriously on par with your level of expectations? If so, you have ridiculously low standards to me. That thread on the reddit showing off the datamined information basically leaked the full release, and there just isn't that much there on launch. It's still a really fun game, but there just isn't nearly as much content as I was hoping for. There's no need to defend the game in the face of criticism like this. You can only gain if the entire SoT community complains that there isn't enough content.

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @natsu-v2 I hadn't seen that list. Just looking at the Landmark location list and comparing it with the map in the currently available beta, I can tell that it is incomplete. There is also no indication that the list is exhaustive of what will be in the release. We just don't know. They have, what, 7 weeks until release?

    All I know is that even with what is in there, I am having a ton of fun. It is enough for me. If it is not enough for you, that's ok too. I'm not trying to say they shouldn't keep adding to the game. They plan to keep adding to the game. They've said they have 2 years of a post release roadmap already. I'm just saying that for me, what they are planning is enough for me to enjoy myself.

  • ShootHere4EXP
    Captain
    Insider

    @erikinthebakery said in A Sandbox needs Sand:

    Not trying to bash on you, just showing you some of the tools hiding in the shed. (at least the ones mentioned on this site and here

    Oh I know I've watched all these things trying to decipher just how much content is actually in this game. I'm excited for all the things you've mentioned... especially the "Golden Age Of Piracy" I really want to know what that is.

    Truth be told though I dont like the fact that there are 3 factions and they arent in competition with one another, its like Destiny's 3 factions it hardly means anything. Which tells me there are literally just 3 kinds of missions in this game. They advertise that you can build your renown with them... but thats just a gimmick if it just means cashing in Rep. Player Factions and Player Pirate Clan Wars would actually make renown much more interesting. Having a Merchant Company that actually facilitates an in game economy between outposts and cities is much more interesting than just turning in a chicken crate instead of a chest to a merchant. The Chests, Skulls, and Animal Crates are all pretty much the same things just with different skins.

    What if I want to be a cook in this world? Scowering the islands for unique ingredients and building my own recipes that restore more health? Cant do that.

    What if I want to be a ship builder that designs unique ships that other players want to buy off me? (I design theme parks in real life) Hell what if I dont want a reskin but actual redesign of my ship with chase guns and a ram? Can I do that? nope.

    What If I want to be a Navy Admiral scourging these waters of Pirate S**m and protecting cities and civilians?? Cant do that

    What if there was a wanted system where pirates get coin on their heads the more bounty you take? And you earn money by killing them? So far no sign of anything like this.

    What if I want to build forts Fortnite Style, or capture islands and make them my pirate home? Can't do that.

    Can I come up with new ammunition types that deal damage to ships in different ways? Firing Cutlery at forks for grapeshot? Can I light enemy ships on fire and watch them try to throw water on it to put it out? Nope

    IS there a Kraken??? I hope so... And i hope its not just in boss mode, I hope its like the skyrim Dragons and just pops up out of nowhere to eat my ship.

    Are there really unique clothes and items to gather from this plunder?? IS there any there there to stealing all these chests or is it just coins, rep, and access to a hat a thousand other people have?

    Can I sail off the edge of the world on a giant waterfall?

    Can a ransack and pillage a town of innocents?

    Can I actually steal an enemy ship (like actually steal it not just sit on it while they respawn)

    See what I mean? There is so much potential here, it hasnt even scratched the surface and I would rather this game be delayed and stuff like this added than have this releases now for $70 with just the skeleton (pun intended) of a great game.

  • Natsu v2
    Lord
    Insider
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery Actually, every major island was listed there, they just had different names. The smaller ones weren't listed though. And based on the OP's comments, apparently the kraken isn't even done yet. They only had its tentacles ready with no body or head. I'd assume that the 6 weeks until launch is going to be finishing that and polishing the immense amount of bugs the game still has, as well as getting the merchant alliance working.

    What they have is enough for me to enjoy the game as well, but it's far and away too little compared to where my expectations were.

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @shoothere4exp Every game has things that you can't do. The trick is deciding if you like the things you can do.

    @Natsu-v2 It was all of the missing smaller islands that I was referring to. People have also been discovering unmarked underwater reefs. As for the next 6 weeks, the art dept isn't going to be working on bugs. In the end, I suppose my expectations were lower than yours. But regardless, I'm enjoying it and am keeping my preorder.

  • Face 0 o
    Founder

    It's unreasonable to expect people to enjoy a game based solely off social interaction. VRChat is an exclusion to this idea, but even that content and interaction has an expiration date.

    Not everyone you match with is a social butterfly, and if they're a group, and don't want you there, you're going to find it's not a pleasant experience by any means.

    So let's remove the social premise from the game and what's left... fetch quests on repeat. Ok, glad we sorted that out. Thanks for reading.

  • Great Khali Qc
    Marauder

    im still concerned about the content the beta has, i had already a ton of fun with my friends but i'm worried about if that fun will stay after 2 weeks playing, the world is empty (both others crew and life), there is only sharks in the water and 3-4 type of skellysm thats not enough in my opinion. maybe the full game is way more than beta but the game has immense potential, but like threass says sandbox needs sand. here some few ideas maybe youve seen already but i think it should be implemented:
    -1 10-15 variety of ship ( faster or more powerful ships for 2 and for 4 members crew) the possibility of upgrading your ship like you start with 2 canons and you buy more until it maxed for you vessel or change the sails so they rotate faster or get more speed from winds.
    2- massive customisation in every aspects ( ship, sail , appearance clothes etc.
    3- 10-15 weapons minimum pistol rifle shotgun is not enough you need to be able either buy like a better scope or a better gun like faster reloading or more damage or have bigger clip (more than 5) a few kind of sword (faster swinging or more damage or less cooldown to flourish attack)
    4- life is necessary : need fish, crabs, tortoises and more danger in the seas than the kraken and sharks. also in the island need monkeys, chicken, cows, crows that attacks you or annoy yourself etc
    5-ferry of the damned : it should be wandering in the seas (only 1 ship for the whole map because its kind of world boss) searching for fresh blood. players would have to flee in order to survive and keep their wealth.
    6- skellys or ghost pirate vessel : they wander and attacks crew but are somehow manageable and offers treasure to those who succeed.
    7- in gta v there is mini game inside the game why not include some card game in the tavern or dice game something like that. you can either play with your crew or with other pirate at your own risk. it could be hold em, dice game, black jack etc...
    8- monthly event: like mmos this game could have festival and events so it gives freshness to game. could have activities you can only do in these events and items you can only acquire in these.
    9- item upgrade : your first shovel digs chest in 7 hit, your last golden one get the chest in 2, you see where im going, your lens see better and more clearly, you get lamps that do more light etc etc
    10- advanced stats could be really nice, so you see everything youve done like how many grog you have drink or skeleton killed , distance sailed etc etc and have a friends and global ladder for the ricchest players or the deadliest one.
    i have more ideas but been already 30 mins im on this.... hope it could give people more ideas or improve mines.... thanks for your time

Login To Reply
20
Posts
22.3k
Views
1 out of 20