The Real Crossplay Solution?

@tahngarthor

agreed,

& since RARE holds all the keys, & is the only one who could gather meaningful statistics on this issue, i for one think we're in good hands. I believe in them to do everything they can to keep evening the playing field without sacrificing gameplay or splitting the playerbase

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr

Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.

fix'd that for ya

Ok, let's say we go that route. You still lose the same amount of players. Why not let people play the game how they want? We all paid for the game too.

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr

Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.

fix'd that for ya

Just because you don't want/hate optional crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who are on platform specific servers. So there's no reason to oppose having the option.
re-fixed that for ya.

Ther'es no reason to support having the option because 1) Having the option would require development time for implementation that could be better spent on other things and 2) There is literally no way to tell which platform the other players in your game are playing on short of all of the players being your friends and you know what platform they're on. Since you can't identify who is from what platform by any measureable means, there is no reason to isolate yourself from players by platform.

And dont try to say something like "this guy kicked my a*s he must be a PC player" because that's not a measurable metric that can be quantified as a number or piece of data- it's just anecdotal evidence that has no value........

Further, this whole discussion is moot because Rare has made their stance on features which divide the playerbase clear- They won't do it.

Post the link where Rare "made their stance on features which divide the playerbase clear- They won't do it."

Regarding if we can tell if people are xbox or PC; I absolutely can tell. I'm better than 90% on it too. Whenever I question someone being on PC, I pull up their gamercard. I see they have approximately 300 gamerscore and the last opened program "xbox app". That is a PC player. You know darn well this is the case, but by all means make claims that this isn't necessarily true. Finally, you have no idea how much of a development endeavor it would be implement an option for platform specific play. Are yon on their dev team? Do you have their 3 year plan and RAD cycle?

Sure, you can look a player up and glean what platform they're on from their app history, but I'm asking you how you can tell in-game from a player's behavior that they are on PC. There is no reliable, measureable way to show this.

Even if there was one, which there isn't, PC players could dodge this stigma by simply using a controller.

No, of course i'm not on their dev team, however I am in the game dev industry and I have plenty of insight into how video games are made.

The firs thing I can tell you is this is more than simply a matter of placing a line in the options menu with a yes or no control. The server systems and matchmaking code have to be modified, and only Rare could tell you exactly how much effort that would require. All I can tell you is it will require some number of man hours, and unless they hire more staff, that's man hours that get taken away from some other task, such as fixing a bug or adding a new feature.

@khol-thndrwlkr said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr

Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.

fix'd that for ya

Ok, let's say we go that route. You still lose the same amount of players. Why not let people play the game how they want? We all paid for the game too.

Dude, these crossplay lovers are full of c**p. They know the majority of players are xbox, meaning the majority of their opponents are xbox, which means they have a competitive advantage over the majority of their opponents. They are fighting tooth and nail b/c they want their advantage protected and maintained.

@Khol-Thndrwlkr

see my reply to another detractor on the previous page

the group of people who will stop playing if crossplay remains unchanged is a much smaller set than the group of people who would turn crossplay off if that were an option. Futhermore, the amount of people currently playing(even minus you who say you will leave without optional crossplay) is much larger than the current pool of PC players, or Xbox players.

The playerbase loses more if it is split by optional crossplay than if the anti-crossplaythiests leave altogether (not to mention, once it splits it now has 3 groups of players with more surface area. more surface area = faster attrition, and attrition just happens as users move on or are motivated to play other or newer games)

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly

it's not yet,(thank cthulhu) because RARE is still maintaining "No Asterisk Crossplay"

if crossplay became an option, it would split the playerbase.

the playerbase suffers less attrition if the people who hate crossplay just stop playing than if we allow the playerbase to self-segregate.
(especially if RARE keeps working to minimize system differences & maximize parity since SoT will never be ranked competitive esport MLG)

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr

Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.

fix'd that for ya

Ok, let's say we go that route. You still lose the same amount of players. Why not let people play the game how they want? We all paid for the game too.

Dude, these crossplay lovers are full of c**p. They know the majority of players are xbox, meaning the majority of their opponents are xbox, which means they have a competitive advantage over the majority of their opponents. They are fighting tooth and nail b/c they want their advantage protected and maintained.

Any perception of a "competitive advantage" is simply a fabrication. Even if you ignore the fact that there is no actual competition in this game (no leaderboard or scores or other way to measure yourself against the rest of the playerbase), whether or not a mouse and keyboard is better or not is entirely 100% an opinion and not a fact. As I mentioned before, Most of the people I play FFXIV with use a controller, even on PC and they swear to every deity in the universe that they are so much better for it. So why does anyone here think that mouse and keyboard is better? Talking about competitive advantage in a game that isn't really competitive to begin with is just ridiculous. It's not like there is going to be Sea of Thieves e sports competitions... what would they compete for anyway?

And if you're so sure that there are so few PC players, then what have you got to worry about? you probably won't run into one! (And you really wouldn't know it if you did, unless you looked up their xbox profile.)

It isn't a problem in any other well known game with crossplay, and it isn't a problem here.

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@khol-thndrwlkr

Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.

fix'd that for ya

Ok, let's say we go that route. You still lose the same amount of players. Why not let people play the game how they want? We all paid for the game too.

Dude, these crossplay lovers are full of c**p. They know the majority of players are xbox, meaning the majority of their opponents are xbox, which means they have a competitive advantage over the majority of their opponents. They are fighting tooth and nail b/c they want their advantage protected and maintained.

Any perception of a "competitive advantage" is simply a fabrication. Even if you ignore the fact that there is no actual competition in this game (no leaderboard or scores or other way to measure yourself against the rest of the playerbase), whether or not a mouse and keyboard is better or not is entirely 100% an opinion and not a fact. As I mentioned before, Most of the people I play FFXIV with use a controller, even on PC and they swear to every deity in the universe that they are so much better for it. So why does anyone here think that mouse and keyboard is better?

And if you're so sure that there are so few PC players, then what have you got to worry about? you probably won't run into one! (And you really wouldn't know it if you did, unless you looked up their xbox profile.)

It isn't a problem in any other well known game with crossplay, and it isn't a problem here.

This is opinion. My opinion is in opposition to yours. I say the perception of "competitive advantage" is factual and can be backed up with data sources including the research RARE did on this very game. There is in fact competition in this game. Just because there is no leaderboard doesn't mean people aren't competing against one another in game. Why does there need to be a leaderboard for people to compete? Your argument here is baseless and nonsense. You measure yourself against another person after you fight them to the death. How do you not get this. You DO get it, you just want to claim the ridiculous "leaderboard defense". I never said there were no PC players, I said the majority are xbox. That means 51% or more. How many people play SoT? hundreds of thousands? You want to talk about other games with crossplay? Fine. Almost every other crossplay game has the exact option we're asking for. I see through you.

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

This is opinion. My opinion is in opposition to yours. I say the perception of "competitive advantage" is factual

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this statment is?

"This is opinion. My opinion is that my opinion is a fact."

That's basically what you said.

PERCEPTIONS may be real, but that doesn't make those perceptions facts. Just because you perceive something to be a certain way doesn't mean that it is.

There is no competitive advantage in a game which has no means of measuring oneself competitively.

This "problem doesn't exist in any other cross platform game currently being actively played. I've never seen a rocket league player think one platform has an advantage over another. It just isn't even discussed. If anything, controller is superior in that game and mouse/keyboard users are probably at a disadvantage. The same is true in FFXIV. How it could magically not be true here despite the devs being debatable more platform concious than any others I've seen is beyond me

Any actual "competitive advantage" is so small to the point where it can't be measured. Nobody in this thread has demonstrated any in-game way of measuring a player's skill or movements to determine which platform they are on. The only way to tell definitively is to look up their xbox profiles.

Funny enough nobody seems terribly concerned about the competitive disadvantage a PC player might have if their machine is significantly below spec- very low framerates can make it difficult to play, while any framerate above what the xbox one supports isn't going to measurably enhance skill.

One thing that NOBODY here has mentioned is that if an option was added, it would actually split the population three ways- PC players, xbox one players, and xbox one X players. The xbox one X supports higher resoltuion/framerate, so if that's a competitive advantage, you'd have to segregate Xbone X players from regular xbone players.

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

This is opinion. My opinion is in opposition to yours. I say the perception of "competitive advantage" is factual

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this statment is?

"This is opinion. My opinion is that my opinion is a fact."

That's basically what you said.

So your goal here was to cherry pick in my statement to proclaim I made a foolish statement. Ah heck, I'll play. Allow me to paraphase and generalize the part of my statement that you chose to attack. It's my opinion that competitive advantages do in fact exist in life.

If you can't accept that then fine. I should have said the word "TRUE" instead of "FACTUAL". Are you satisfied? Does that fix my statement so that you can't completely disregard it due to a single poorly chosen word?

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

This is opinion. My opinion is in opposition to yours. I say the perception of "competitive advantage" is factual

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this statment is?

"This is opinion. My opinion is that my opinion is a fact."

That's basically what you said.

So your goal here was to cherry pick in my statement to proclaim I made a foolish statement. Ah heck, I'll play. Allow me to paraphase and generalize the part of my statement that you chose to attack. It's my opinion that competitive advantages do in fact exist in life.

If you can't accept that then fine. I should have said the word "TRUE" instead of "FACTUAL". Are you satisfied? Does that fix my statement so that you can't completely disregard it due to a single poorly chosen word?

I "cherry picked" it because it basically discredits your entire post. Smiple as that. Your opinion that your opinion is a fact is simply nonsense. If you think there is some way to show that somebody in this game has a meaningful advantage over other players, you need to prove it. However, one of my points was, even if that were true, which I don't agree that it is, the ramifications of this are meaningless. There is no reason to do anything for a "competitive advantage" in this game. Nobody will be aware of it since there is no leaderboard or other means for players to gauge themselves against each other. This isn't a competitive game. Yes you can fight each other, but nobody's keeping score. The system isn't matching people based on skill or progress in the game either, which further obfuscates any advantages that might exist, as you might get matched with terrible PC players who don't know how to play and be worse off.

@oneeeyedwilly

millions of people it seems. But if you're right & majority play via xbox, then enabling a crossplay option is a loss for non-xbox players, since they would lose access to the 'majority' (your words, not mine nor RARE's) of the playerbase for matchmaking services. This is an example of an argument for continued "No Asterisk Crossplay" that has nothing to do with perceived "advantages/disadvantages" in gameplay gunplay PvP, and is exclusively based in matchmaking potential for what you describe as a significant minority of the playerbase (i.e. PC & other non-xbox players)

just saying, you know, because we're the ones only defending advantages we have & not looking at the big picture & how these choices are going to play out for the future of the game

(&ofc this all has nothing to do with in my playsession last night i used my shovel more than any gun, and my lantern more than i used a gun to shoot another player. Honestly, if it weren't for the skele fort i would have hardly used a gun or shot at another player. Really, i need those tight dpi advantages so i can compass & check my bearing quickly baby, i'm all about knowin' which direction i be facin'/endsarcasm)

@tahngarthor So only I have the burden of proof? While you can make whatever claims you want and discredit whatever you want. Typical of the elitist PC mentality. Enjoy your competitive advantage. All I want is an even playing field. You fight against an even playing field, you can keep on doing as long as you like. Good day sir.

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor So only I have the burden of proof? While you can make whatever claims you want and discredit whatever you want. Typical of the elitist PC mentality. Enjoy your competitive advantage. All I want is an even playing field. You fight against an even playing field, you can keep on doing as long as you like. Good day sir.

You haven't asked me to prove anything. Your dismissive response only signals to me that I'm right, since you've said nothing to advance your argument. Good day indeed.

And I find your comment insulting on top of that, since i'm not being elitist and I don't feel I have any advantage over you. Mind explaining to me what this advantage is, and why no other crossplatform game seems to have it? I didn't come in here waving around some PC M*********e banner. I came in here talking in a civil manner.

There is no competitive advantage, the playing field is even. Any unevenness is so small that it can't be measured. All I've asked is for someone to provide a measurable means of detecting advantage, but so far nobody has demonstrated one.

Frame rate: Frame rate is more likely to be a competitive disadvantage to PC users, as unless they have very high end machines, they will have to lower their graphical quality or deal with the lower frame rate, which can make it harder to perform actions if it's low enough (like less than 40ish). This can also vary between xbox consoles, because the xbox one X has higher performance than the standard xbox one. So do we also segregate X users from non X users in addition to PC?

Controller vs Keyboard: I've seen no one here demonstrate how one is better than the other. A keyboard has more buttons, but the game doesn't itself provide much means of leveraging them other than hotkeys for individual items (and I still end up using the radial wheel anyway, personally). Mouse and keyboard does allow for finer camera control, but the lack of a left analog stick means that movement is more limited without also moving your camera around in the process. Both options have pros and cons, I really don't see how one is better than the other. This can also be solved, more simply, by allowing mouse/keyboard use on xbox. Final Fantasy XIV allows mouse and keyboard on the Playstation 4, but most people who try it end up going back to controller. Given how it works in other games and how it works here, I don't see any clear advantage to being a mouse and keyboard user:

Graphics: Nothing i see about the graphics settings is really exploitable. Unless the Field of Vision setting isn't available on xbox, there is no disparity here.

@OneeEyedWilly @Tahngarthor

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor So only I have the burden of proof? While you can make whatever claims you want and discredit whatever you want. Typical of the elitist PC mentality. Enjoy your competitive advantage. All I want is an even playing field. You fight against an even playing field, you can keep on doing as long as you like. Good day sir.

You haven't asked me to prove anything. Your dismissive response only signals to me that I'm right, since you've said nothing to advance your argument. Good day indeed.

i'm sorry, you're actually both 'wrong' here, as the burden of proof is upon anyone making a statement that can be challenged & the challenger. We're all in this together.

however, since Tahn is arguing for the Status Quo, which is maintained or changed in exclusivity by RARE & RARE only,
&
because RARE is the only party who could produce empirical & inarguable proof of anything,

we are at their whim

so then yeah, Oneeyed, it's up to you to prove anything, you must provide proof and empirical evididence. Or pray heartily that RARE will privately substantiate your claims AND decide that it is in their economic best interests to back your solution instead of finding a different solution that doesn't compromise the "No Asterisk Crossplay" policy they brag about.

Just saying, i mean, by all means wear out this forums patience with new posts beating the same argument into the ground if that's your purview

Rocket League is a highly competitive game, which has a significant e-sports scene. The game is available fully cross-play on PC, Linux/Steam OS, Mac OS X, Playstation 4, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch.

For some strange reason, there is no discussion akin to this thread in that game. In fact most people there seem to feel that controller is the better way to play, so PC players on mouse and keyboard might even be at a disadvantage. But it is as I said, nobody complains about cross play there, or thinks it is a bad thing or wants to turn it off. So why is it only a problem for Sea of Thieves?

@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

stuff

Just saying, you're kind of being a backseat moderator here. I understand your intention, but it is best to let two people in a dispute sort things out themselves.

I agree with what you said however, but I"m still waiting to be asked to prove something. :)

@perfecshionist now If I remember correctly bungie had to go wild with the ban bat with destiny 1 due to xbox one players cheating so not sure where this information of cheating is a rare breed on xbox comes from ive seen more cheating/exploiting on console games than ive ever seen in big PC games but maybe your experience of pc gaming has been different to mine. Lag switching is cheating Xbox players do that on loads of games so claiming there are no cheaters on xbox is a blatent lie

@acid182 said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist now If I remember correctly bungie had to go wild with the ban bat with destiny 1 due to xbox one players cheating so not sure where this information of cheating is a rare breed on xbox comes from ive seen more cheating/exploiting on console games than ive ever seen in big PC games but maybe your experience of pc gaming has been different to mine. Lag switching is cheating Xbox players do that on loads of games so claiming there are no cheaters on xbox is a blatent lie

It's a fantasy. Consoles do not have some magical aura of non-cheatness. It's a somewhat reaosnable argument to say that it is more difficult to cheat on the console, however difficulty isn't going to stop a determined player from cheating regardless of platform.

@acid182 said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist now If I remember correctly bungie had to go wild with the ban bat with destiny 1 due to xbox one players cheating so not sure where this information of cheating is a rare breed on xbox comes from ive seen more cheating/exploiting on console games than ive ever seen in big PC games but maybe your experience of pc gaming has been different to mine. Lag switching is cheating Xbox players do that on loads of games so claiming there are no cheaters on xbox is a blatent lie

It was Xbox 360. Not the same platform as the Xbox One.

There were no Xbox One cheater in destiny.

There are no Xbox One cheaters in destiny 2.

@tahngarthor
lol @ "stuff"

i know & that's why i said sorry to begin with, i just can't help but feel these forums, and topics especially need moderation, because as they fester they breed toxicity in the community

but wouldn't that be nice? to actually be asked? proof of what tho, that's what i'm wondering. lol, will you provide me proof that optional crossplay will split the playerbase? I'mma need to see some maths & at least one chart to be convinced

@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@acid182 said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist now If I remember correctly bungie had to go wild with the ban bat with destiny 1 due to xbox one players cheating so not sure where this information of cheating is a rare breed on xbox comes from ive seen more cheating/exploiting on console games than ive ever seen in big PC games but maybe your experience of pc gaming has been different to mine. Lag switching is cheating Xbox players do that on loads of games so claiming there are no cheaters on xbox is a blatent lie

It was Xbox 360. Not the same platform as the Xbox One.

There were no Xbox One cheater in destiny.

There are no Xbox One cheaters in destiny 2.

Horse dump. You want to argue there are "fewer" cheaters? I can accept that as plausible. But to assert that there are zero cheaters on xbox one? that's just absurd.

Harder to cheat? Perhaps. Impossible? Sorry, nothing is impossible, and unless it was impossible, somebody has done it by now, and just didn't get noticed.

I'm on PC. I haven't tested the sensitivity vs. xbox. I'm sure it's higher on PC as seems usual.

I "believe" this is mostly because there's a certain ergonomic 'speed' that players on PC are comfortable with, too large a gap between expectation and physical movement creates a slue of negative responses.

If they code in the delay on movement overmuch for a mouse, things being to feel unresponsive. If they continue to "ignore" (which recent patches indicate they aren't) the discrepancy then console players will feel shafted.

It's a tough question to balance. One that haunts a LARGE variety of games in my experience.

The same can be said of graphics settings, draw distances, loading times, resolutions, multi-tasking, background cheating apps, keyboard functionality, macros, hot keys, multi function mice, and so many more divisions it's insane.

I'm sympathetic to your post, I don't even disagree with it. I'm simply offering food for thought. There's more, in my perception, than simply "Attenuating slower speeds as a penalty for the sake of balance".

@jimmy-voorhees I've never disputed to the fact its easier to cheat on a pc but it does not change the fact I've come across more lag switchers on consoles than I have cheaters on the pc games I play, and for the guy to be claiming there is no cheating at all on Xbox and all cheaters are pc players is just not right, especially since the majority of people who get accused of cheating are not actually cheating to start with they just happen to be really good players.

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

Just make cross platform OPTIONAL.

It is not complicated. It is not hard. It should not be an issue.

A check box in the lobby that is defaulted to "on".

That is all that needs to happen.

Despite metathesiophobic efforts to twist the issue and invent justifications not to do it there is no good argument not to make it optional.

Edit: And Hoboprof and LoboFh I don't want to hear your whining. I have discussed this issue with you two ad nauseam on other threads. Your justifications for keeping the competitive advantage you have against console players are stupid and selfish.

As I just wrote, it doesn't need to be optional. You don't know what platform your crew members or enemies are on and there is nothing about them or their behavior that can tell you which. There is no advantage to having such an option.

If you're concerned about cheating, cheating is just as possible on either platform and limiting yourself to your platform's players does nothing about cheating.

You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Cheating is a secondary concern. The primary concern is that PC players have a competitive advantage entirely due to the quicker and more precise mouse and keyboard control scheme.

Cheating is a secondary concern but you are being disengenous claiming cheating exists on both platforms.

Cheating on a PC is easy, there is an entire industry of program writers selling cheat software, it is harder to get got, and when you get caught you only lose you license.

Cheating is a SIGNIFICANTLY greater problem on the PC.

Cheating on the Xbox One requires MODIFYING THE SYSTEM. There are no easy or user accessible mods. It takes a lot of skill and expertise to do even for skilled modder there is a strong risk of bricking the Xbox one due to detection mechanisms built into the platform and into the Xbox Live ecosystem. Xbox One cheaters are a rare breed. In fact they are UNICORNS.

Even hacking teams whose entire reputations online are based on their ability to find exploits and show them to the community have STILL NOT SUCCESFULLY HACKED AN XBOX ONE...

Here is the Faq from a major hacking/cheat site about the Xbox one...

Is there a way to cheat in Xbox One games and in online multiplayer?
In Short: While getting hacks to work is certainly possible on Xbox One, it is a highly complex process no matter what method you are going for. Unless the cheats are already hardcoded into the game as a feature, some serious external hardware and software is required on top of the know-how and the method to either run unsigned code, hacke the hardware or edit packets correctly. This is the case for both online and offline titles.

Is it currently possible to run unsigned programs / code on a Xbox One? > NO!
Currently there are no known ways of running unsigned code, any program that is executed on an Xbox One is verified using encryption keys to verify the file integrity. Aside for quickly patched exploits, the chances of execution of unsigned code which would be required for client-side hacks, aimbots, bots ect is currently not possible.

Physically hacking the Xbox: While this has not been done yet, memory editing and executing of hacks is certainly possible through hardware hacks that allow interception of ram data in order to inject hacks directly into the game data on the actual RAM. However, this is another incredibly expensive and complicated venture that so far is only based in theory.

SO CLAIMING THAT THERE ARE CHEATERS ON THE XBOX ONE IS A LIE!!!
You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Insulting me doesn't make your argument more valid.

There is no competitive advantage to being on the PC. Thinking mouse and keyboard is superior is entirely an opinion and not a proveable fact. Hell i play another cross platform game (Final Fantasy XIV, on PS4, PC and Mac OS) and i can't stop getting earfuls about how players using controllers (on any of the platforms) feel like they're superior to everyone else. Rocket League is cross platform with PC and every current console and complaints of cheating are not dependent on platform at all. Only Steam users can even be identified (because they have a profile picture where the other platforms dont show profile pics), and I don't know anybody whatsoever who complains about platforms other than their own or demands a no crossplay option. Cross play increases the player pool and is seen almost universally as a good thing.

Also: There is no competition in this game. There is no leaderboard or way to measure yourself against other players, so talking about competitive advantage is practically a moot point to begin with.

Second, you do not need to hack or physically modify the xbox to cheat. You can cheat via packet manipulation. This requires a PC or custom firmware on your networking devices, but is entirely doable by anyone who really wants to cheat regardless of platform.

Rare has all kinds of anti cheat measures in place that will reduce or prevent the most obvious cheating avenues. People who think playing games on a console shields them from cheating in any way are living in a fantasy.

sigh

Packet manipulation has a ton of downsides; most importantly LATENCY.

And as you said, it requires a PC. Why would someone then use that PC to cheat on the Xbox One?

You are claiming unicorns exist when you claim this is happening. And not just unicorns, idiotic unicorns spending hundreds of dollars and a tremendous amount of technical problem solving to cheat on an Xbox One.

When all they need to do is use the PC they already own and any of the many available cheat programs to cheat on the PC.

It is as though you are so desperate to not admit that cheating on the Xbox One is not even close to the frequency of cheating on the PC that you are clinging to this absurdly unlikely circumstance of someone using a dedicated PC and a great deal of personal coding time to cheat on the Xbox One knowing their efforts will result in high latency.

When all they need to do kick their feet up and use the PC they already own to cheat without any effort at all.

Plus nobody has successfully developed a provable method to cheat using packet manipulation on the Xbox One.

Finally, the mouse and keyboard is a better and more effective control scheme. Claiming it is not is ridiculous.

Some games a controller can arguably be better. Such as fighting games or racing/sports games.

FPS games like SoT are not those games.

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.

It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.

Xbox can't.

Therefore it will never be a level playing field.

The end

Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...

Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.

Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.

It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.

I know this and agree.

But

Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.

Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.

There's a difference

Again, I dont think its fair to call every PC player a cheater. I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)

I dont think the few people that do cheat have ruined the pc community enough that we need to remove all pc players.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but a new pc account means the progress is lost and as the purchase of the game is digital it is linked to a single account in the pc.

At no point did I blame all pc players. At no point did I say remove them.

What I said was

It should be optional

Once again, there's a difference.

I'm glad you've not witnessed cheating. I have. Hell they actually bragged about it over coms.

So asking for the option to play with my peers alone isn't a bad thing.

And your MLB comment is a straw man. No one thinks of SoT like that,

But

No one should be able to cheat and ruin the playing experience of others. A fair kill is a fair kill.
Using a mod that can auto aim cannons?

That ruins the game as even the best player misses cannon shots.

No one should cheat but alienating all pc players because some do is unfair. MLG not mlb... not a straw man because the game is not designed as a highly competative game. It is a social experience with a competative nature.
Because it is not a competative game the parameters for imbalance between players can be wider without an upset to the overall structure and purpose to the game. Meaning it is ok that pc players have some advantage.

I can't tell if you're legit not getting the rather easy to understand idea here or trolling so I'll spell it out.

Xbox and PC both should have the option to play with their own console servers only. It's an option .

No one is getting left out. Each platform could still cross play, but also have the option to play peer platform only.

How is that not fair? Unless you're cheating and like the benefit of forced cross play, there's no reason to be offended by the idea...🤔

This option has no reason to exist. Players are not identified by platform and there's no easily discernable means of distinguishing a PC or xbox player. There is no reason to choose not to crossplay, because it doesn't impact gameplay in any measurable way. People used to playing with gamepads tend to feel like their gamepads are superior to mouse/keyboard play anyway, I dont know any dieheard controller users that actually think their input method is better or vice versa for keyboard users. It's really a personal preference thing, neither is innately superior- it all depends on how its implemented and how the player makes use of it.

It's not worth the development time that could be spent on other tasks considering how insignificant an issue this is. Options are bad when they compromise development on other things.

Clearly you're not keeping up with this thread. Lurk more.

Clearly you're not keeping up with the thread if you're just replying to that post now.

@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.

It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.

Xbox can't.

Therefore it will never be a level playing field.

The end

Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...

Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.

Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.

It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.

I know this and agree.

But

Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.

Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.

There's a difference

I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)

Forum saturation makes it seem like a larger issue. Only Rare knows but 100+ and I've never come across a hacker.

There is a reference to the issue of cheating made by the Studio Head for Rare himself Craig Duncan in the most recent video I've watched:

Official Sea of Thieves: Tales from the Tavern Podcast - Episode #16

In this remark he expresses that despite most complaints: SIC Cheating is a limited concern in the population despite the regularity of player feedback. Noting that they have interest in the topic, to include maintaining the concern as a primary focus, and having a team in place already whose primary task is rooting out cheaters. SIC

There's always a chance that someone is cheating. But in my experience nothing is more gratifying than whooping someone in the a**e during a match of pvp or some other competitive game and reading somewhere in the chat channel: HACKS particularly since I don't cheat in games.

Why bother?

Especially in a game like SoT! Where the primary game focus is community!

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@acid182 said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@perfecshionist now If I remember correctly bungie had to go wild with the ban bat with destiny 1 due to xbox one players cheating so not sure where this information of cheating is a rare breed on xbox comes from ive seen more cheating/exploiting on console games than ive ever seen in big PC games but maybe your experience of pc gaming has been different to mine. Lag switching is cheating Xbox players do that on loads of games so claiming there are no cheaters on xbox is a blatent lie

It was Xbox 360. Not the same platform as the Xbox One.

There were no Xbox One cheater in destiny.

There are no Xbox One cheaters in destiny 2.

Horse dump. You want to argue there are "fewer" cheaters? I can accept that as plausible. But to assert that there are zero cheaters on xbox one? that's just absurd.

Harder to cheat? Perhaps. Impossible? Sorry, nothing is impossible, and unless it was impossible, somebody has done it by now, and just didn't get noticed.

The only cheating an Xbox one user can do is network manipulation.

This is the case in Destiny.

Softmodding and hardmodding are PC exclusive.

I have both.

On my PC I could go from nothing to hardcore cheating in 15 minutes.

Xbox? Even a simple lag switch (which are a pain to use, as most games detect small amounts of packet loss and boot) takes about 30 minutes to make, and a lot of finesse to use.

It's apples and oranges.

As I've said before, not all PC players cheat. Myself included. But it is markedly easier to do. And all a person risks is an account. 10 minutes and you'vegot a new one and a new game pass trial, back to terrorizing you go.

Xbox players can make new accounts too. They might be less likely to as the odds are higher that they have more at stake (since most PC gamers probably have most of their games on Steam and not the Microsoft Store) but don't pretend for a second that they can't.

And network manipulation really isn't that difficult. Yes it might take some time but again the point is, playing on xbox doesn't give you some magical anti-cheating shield aura. And while it is arguably harder to cheat on the xbox, there are far more xbox players than PC players- I have no data but I'd wager the overall number of cheaters (total number, not percentage) are similar on both platforms.

But cheating isn't really even what this thread was originally about- it was about gameplay advantages, and ive spent several posts explaining why this aspect is insignificant:

-Controller vs keyboard advantages are entirely opinions with no real basis in fact- both have pros and cons and whether the pros of one outweigh the other's cons is a matter of opinion.
-System performance on PC is as likely (or more likely, since PC players aren't all rich people or children thereof) to be a liability as it is to be any sort of advantage whatsoever, as min spec machines will struggle to keep a playable framerate; That being said Rare has taken many steps to minimize this, and also provide parity in game options wherever possible, and I think they've done a commendable job at limiting the potential advantages of either platform.
-Most of the actual advantages a PC player can enjoy if they have a high end system, such as higher refresh rates and screen resolutions, offer little to no actual gameplay benefit outside of the most hardcore exacting esports setting, something that Sea of Thieves is not in any way shape or form.
-A number of other cross play games exist that don't seem to have this debate going on. One example I provided, Rocket League, is crossplay across multiple consoles, Windows PC, Linux and Mac OS X- No distinguishment or clear identifying marks are provided and yet you never see people in the game saying things like "that scummy Switch user was garbo, more XB1 players plz" or "damn, I got my a**e kicked, that guy must be a PC user!" It is just such a rare thing that i've seen more people making this argument in this one thread than in everything i've ever seen of the rocket league community- and rocket league is an actual competitive esports title, unlike Sea of Thieves, which has no competitive elements other than PvPing to steal loot etc. And if someone does kick your a*s, it doesn't really matter what platform they're on. you just scuttle or leave the game and start a new session or come back and kick their butts back.

@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:

@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.

It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.

Xbox can't.

Therefore it will never be a level playing field.

The end

Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...

Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.

Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.

It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.

I know this and agree.

But

Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.

Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.

There's a difference

I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)

Forum saturation makes it seem like a larger issue. Only Rare knows but 100+ and I've never come across a hacker.

Part of the reason there might not be much cheating in this game is there isn't a lot to gain from it. Oh, I just cheated to beat these guys! I got 1000 gold, I can... buy a new beard?

The only progression in this game outside of raising your ranks is simply collecting more vanity items- and as far as I'm aware you can't see someone else's entire inventory, so the biggest advantage cheating could have is "oh, I got this sail or ship paint before you did." (That is to say, you can't flaunt having all the items easily). So cheating to beat someone in pvp combat doesn't typically get you real far. You saved a little time farming up loot yourself, but that's about it.

The PvE in the game isn't terribly difficult for the most part (so far) so there isn't really much need to cheat there, either- If you really feel the need to cheat to beat voyage missions, well you must be really terrible at video games in general and I feel sorry for you.

That just leaves achievements, which is an area where cheating is probably more likely to get you in actual trouble (though to be frank, this is the aspect of any game I care about the least, I make my own achievements, personally, rather than let the game dictate them for me). But odds are any PC player of this game is not likely to give the slightest care about xbox achievements, since unless they also play xbox, they're always going to have a small fraction of the gamerscore even if they cheated 100% achievements on every xbox game on PC.

To sum things up for me, I'm just going to go on the record and say I'm shocked that a thread like this is even coming up, since cross platform being added to a game is usually a celebrated feature- "Now I can play with my friend who doesn't own this platform!" in an ideal gaming universe, the device people play their games on should be the least important consideration, and we can all play together. That's what cross play is all about. It's not about cheating or gaining advantages, its abour bringing the playerbase together.

Most PC players just found the game and were curious about it, or heard about it and wanted to play it since before it came out and simply dont own an xbox. Most of them are not specifically playing on PC to gain any advantages whatsoever.
Also, even with cheating being possibly easier to accomplish on PC, the fact is, most players are not cheaters, regardless of platform and to be frank, I think in this game cheating is comparatively unlikely compared to a lot of others.