Sea of thieves adventure mode is practically unplayable 90% of the time. And this simple tweak would make it incredible 100% of the time.

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    First of all, I'm Athena 10 and level 30 with the sea dogs, just to let you know where I'm coming from. Practically all of my friends who I have played with since launch are all on to newer and different games and so my friends list is growing with people I group up with on Discord once, and then we never play again.

    Arena mode has been a great addition to the game and I feel like in the current state of things it's one of the most successful parts of the game right now, but Adventure mode is bad right now. I have honestly just about given up on this game, for one I keep hearing no announcements on the official youtube channel about very briefly available cosmetics, but that's not why I'm here, that's a frustration at my not having been as active playing SoT as I used to, but why am I not on everyday and late into the night anymore? Because 90% of the sessions I put hours into ends with no progression. Let's say I decide to go fishing, more often than not, while keeping watch in between every single cast, some ship will come up and open fire without any attempt at parley. let's say I'm helping a friend complete their tall tales because i know how hard it was for me to do while solo, a bigger ship comes and harasses us for an hour while i try to tell them we have no loot to steal and will give them alliance credit, it's beyond a meme at this point and is just the current state of the game, you either get a group on the discord or you are not welcome on the sea of thieves. there's nothing sporting or fun about it for either party, you either shoot an unmotivated, unmoving vessel or are thus sunk, the only fun is that of bullying newer players or coming after a bully for revenge. The sad part is that the gameplay and game design are so fun to play with and a few simple common gaming staples would easily fix this game and make it more fun for everyone everytime.

    What I would Suggest is the following Fun, pirate themed, and well balanced gameplay mechanic:

    • Bountys *
      The concept essentially is, when someone sinks your ship without your crew having hit their ship with any gunpowder/cannonballs/curses, instead of just quitting the server as most people do, there should be the option to set a bounty, and additional ships sunk in this way can increase that bounty. There would be a prompt on sink that would allow you the option and charge your gold on completion. and immediately there would be a wanted poster in each tavern and ideally a reapers mark forcibly placed on that ship. This marker would stay on the maps of all players accompanied by a bounty placed on the corner of the map table, the map marker would remain until a short timer ends or they turn in a piece of stolen goods from the sunken ship is sold. At which point it might change to a cloud over the region or a circle or description of the region, perhaps "last seen in the ancient Isles" maybe once the map marker has disappeared, simply sighting them with your spyglass could refresh the timer or whatever. This would be huge, all of a sudden if you steal something, your chance of being robbed yourself increases greatly, the more people you sink the more chance people will try to bring you to justice or simply increase your notoriety in the server.

    Even just a thousand gold bounty and a map marker for everyone on the server is a bold challenge for any pirates and would practically make it nearly impossible to get away with these crimes unless you have a skilled crew or your victims decide it's not worth paying the minimum bounty price, but this is the same player relationship in Arena mode. since ships have been so offensively buffed since the anniversary update this high threat level of ship combat should be commonplace. and with the variety of ship types in adventure mode and the size of the map, these bountys could be a massive change to the game, leading to more player interactions, more incentives to ally, and do the in game quests and pve content together without so much frustration and fear, while still maintaining the pirate spirit and potential for swift heists using empty chests to snag a players skulls and gems quickly before you get caught by the vigilante justice mob headed your way, this could also make the graveyard more of a popular server chat location due to the increased server community dynamics that would develope.

    The point is to encourage fun and fair pvp battles, while still allowing and encouraging fun pirate themed stealing, in which getting away with someone's loot without sinking them is a potentially beneficial, allowing for more interactions like forced alliance and negotiating, sure there might be new issues that come up but we can come up for solutions for those too as the current version of the game undeniably has major loss of enjoyment for many players resulting in many leaving including the popular summit twitch streamer, how many times as a pvp minded adventure player do you search endlessle for a fair fight? this will encourage that and increase your infamy on servers and invite the best challengers and protect the helpless tall tales questers and fishermen who would be happy to give you their alliance credit or even allow you to steal most of their loot with simple negotiations in return for allowing them to play and have a fun experience with the fun ship mechanics and engaging pve content

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  • Capt Kanna
    Master
    Insider

    @ziggybitz024 Bounty systems would simply be abused big time, i'd rather not see Rare implement more things that can be abused.

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    Bounties for Sea of Thieves needs to happen, especially to encourage younger players to continue after being "Dumpstered" several times, I've personally seen adults cry from the behavior of some to be completely honest, I suggest this will increase the fun for both vessles in battle interactions

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @lysergicaa I added an edit to make it so bountys would only be prompted when you do not return fire on the attacking vessel, would that help make it less prone to abuse?

  • Okwui
    Ship Mate

    @ziggybitz024 Ah, bounty suggestions making the rounds again, eh? Easily abused. Bad idea.

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @entspeak most pve/p games have a mechanic like this, wow's pvp mode is a great example, i have offered quite a few suggestions to avoid abuse and id be interested to hear how abuse would continue under the specific circumstances

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @ziggybitz024
    I respect your suggestion , but dont agree. Rare has already stated they dont want penalties for attacking players.

    Another point you are missing is pvp players do not care if they are hunted.
    Your suggestion would create more pvp.
    Pvp players will go around attacking players just to get a bounty to have more pvp encounters.

    As everyone says, this will be abused.

    It is up to you to protect yourself in this shared world sanbox.

    And if an adult is crying about a game, for ANY reason. Its time to put the controller down and step back into the real world for awhile

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @nwo-azcrack the intent is to encourage fair pvp, and will not allow players who have returned fire to place bountys and other solutions can be used from other successful games like world of warcraft as i have mentioned that use game mechanics similar to this to fix situations of griefing, please respond to specific examples of potential abuse otherwise your arguement offers no evidence or constructive solutions towards to very real in game problem of griefing. the fact is that most games in the genre have encountered this problem and have successfully used in game mechanics to decrese the negative response and increase/encourage fun gameplay

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @ziggybitz024
    Pvping is not griefing.
    The only griefing that can be done in this game is by your own crew.
    Rare gave u all the tools to avoid every encounter if you wish.
    You agreed to play an open world pvpve game the moment you logged in.
    You dont get the option to just not be attacked.
    If u want to just sit around and fish, make it happen. Sink the player that is attacking you and go back to fishing.

    Tools not rules. What you are asking punishes players for attacking others.

    If you dont wanna pvp, you dont have too. Scuttle, change servers, join an alliance. You have options.

  • Guybrush3pwood2
    Marauder
    Insider

    Annoyingly I like the idea of bounties, but as others have said, it would be likely to create more PvP than reduce it. I'd quite like to see my picture hanging up in the tavern.
    I like the idea that bounties would only be placed if the victims hadn't shot back. I'm not sure how this would work if the aggressors used powder kegs to sink you.
    You may find the peaceful players are left alone and the increase of PvP would happen between the pirates with bounties and the bounty hunters.
    Would an entire bounty be wiped after they've been sunk just once? Don't think this would be a great deterrent, the aggressive crew would just sell their ill-gotten gains more often. I think the gold for the bounty would have to be paid by the victims and not just created by the environment.
    In the real world this would work, but in a game world, getting a higher bounty on your head just becomes an objective rather than a deterrent.
    I personally would like to see an improvement in the alliance mechanic. Being able to request alliances from a distance, perhaps carrier pigeons or a server notice board in the taverns. Also flair guns and alliance roles. Firing a flair gun would alert your alliance members that someone is in need.
    There should also be a shared alliance award for someone completing a tall tale. The quest crew finish that quest and crews linked to them get some gold when quest items are turned in.
    I do agree that something should be done (there are A LOT of posts on this topic) but having seen bounty discussions before I don't think it's the right answer... Having said that, I'd kinda like to see it implemented just to see what happens. We pirates never act like you'd expect

  • norloc
    Marauder
    Insider

    bounty systems encourage people to attack more often, gain a record high bounty and gain notoriety on the server. they wouldn't see a bounty as a punishment but a positive for being nasty and destroying anything that did or didn't move to gain the highest bounty on record. if people think its bad now wait till a player has a reason and purpose to attack another ship

  • Capt Kanna
    Master
    Insider

    @ziggybitz024 I am afraid no matter how you twist and turn it. If there is a profit people will abuse it. Bounty wouldnt work without profiy.

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @nwo-azcrack i have a question for you, when you sink a ship and the player doesnt fight back and all you get is like a skull, is that fun gameplay to you? to me it is not fun for either party, you may disagree on that, that's your opinion, but it's the opinion of many others that it's not a fun interaction and many people in the community who have put in hundreds of hours into the game also come to that conclusion where many of their pvp encounters are un-fun where one side is ill prepared or simply has a smaller crew, it's a matter of unbalanced pve and pvp elements that is very unpopular with many within the community of players, many threads coming up with these ideas to address negative experiences that are resulting in players quitting is a big sign something should be done in order to retain players and increase fun and fair pvp interactions, i've yet to see your response in my specific point on how the specific features in my idea would not address the problems of abuse, your argument is opinion based alone about how you want the game to be and this is a feedback suggestion that is so popular it's immediately met with "oh this again," almost like you didnt even read the specific solutions i had to your worries about abuse, or how i show examples of other games where new players in mass stated frustrations with more experienced players ruining their pve experiences the game made new features and improved gameplay experiences all around,, there is a reason gamers like Summit quit SoT, it stopped being fun ganking smaller crews and stealing nothing of value but the newer players fun experience, your suggestion of "skuttle/ change server / join an alliance" is a lame game experience for all the sides involved including the attackers, there's no athena stolen, its unfun and unfair in many instances as many people report, to ignore all of these complaints and to say there's no problem is just as much of a joke as "join an alliace" clearly intentionally naive to the growing consensus on this common experience that's known to drive new players away, I've come up with ideas to address the theoretical potential of abuse and shown examples of games that have proven otherwise, show me another pve/pve game so aggregious as Sot for the toxic level of griefing.

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @guybrush3pwood2
    Flair guns are a good idea.
    I like the ideas of bounties too.
    Its just hard to create without a window of abuse.
    I would love for everyone to attack me. I love pvp.
    But this is not a pvp game. So i dont make suggestions that would create more.

    Maybe @Ziggybitz024 doesnt see how it can be abused.

    Lemme give everyone an example:
    I see someone fishing.
    Wanna attack but wanna avoid new bounty system.
    My crew rolls up and places gunpowder barrels all aound OPs ship.

    One more. OP is fishing, minding his own buisness.
    Wanna attack again.
    I attack a skelly ship and make it follow me to OP. Now OP is under attack but i avoid the bounty.

    Just to many ways to be abused

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @nwo-azcrack those examples don't negate the solutions i have placed, and agroing a skeleton ship on another player is currently a feature and i see no need to change that experience, you would hear the gunfire and still it wouldnt attack their ship more than yours, and if you somehow manage to place gunpower than i dont see the problem, you can still interact with people in fun and interesting ways but this way it gives people a fair chance and adds to the pirate themed fun pvp experience, you can still steal athenas and get away bounty free its a very specific idea that at least attempts to address all potential ways these systems are abused, you can still use all the in game features and creature unique player interactions that are interesting
    but most games that are pvp/pve servers like kotor, wow, eso etc etc, they all use features to prevent griefing of pve players who are maybe new or for example doing tall tales where there is no benefit at all to stealing from them and they lose hours of progress and maybe are in the gold harder vaults like its a problem and soooooo many players have quit, when's the last fair pvp battle you've had outside of Arena?

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    If you dont see how your idea can be abused i cant help you.
    You already called pvp griefing.
    Now u say its ok to aggro ships to you and ruin your fishing experience.
    You want a different game is all.
    You dont wanna have to defend yourself and pvp.

    I dont enjoy sinking players who dont fight back. Its their choice. I enjoy a challenge. But all of this is irrelevent.
    What i want doesnt matter.

    @Ziggybitz024 Im simply telling you the game you purchased is an open world pvpve game.
    You do not get the choice to just do what you want in peace unless u use the tools provided to make it happen.

    I always see players say if ppl are leaving, game is dying if changes are not made.
    The thing is the game is growing. The players leaving realized this game is not for them and scuttled.
    I downloaded Metro Exedous the other day.
    Seen it had survival elements with the gasmasks and such. It was my mistake. So i wont play it again. No big deal.

    Sea of thieves is a brutal world, ill admit that. But i wouldnt change it for anything. Or ask it to change for me

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    If they didnt do some kind of pvp/bounty twist with whatever adventure voyages the sea dogs will offer outside the tavern, i would be very surprised.

    I think the OP is thinking on the right level here for how this would encourage pvp for those who want it, while allowing people like fisherman and families more chance of either having rescuers or being left alone as tbe otber ships dont want to make more enemies than these bounties/voyages already pit them against.

    Arguments otherwise are lacking at least for the first few responses, guybrush probably made some points but i skipped ahead to defend OP lol. And my phone needs to charge so good day.

  • norloc
    Marauder
    Insider

    what about hiring a mercenary to do your pvp for you, you pay a (in game) daily amount, plus a % of your loot that you cash in. Gaining a bounty I see people wanting to rack up for the hell of it, but getting paid to be someones attacker or protector (being paid to pvp) might be up someones alley, but allows the pve'er do what you want and like without having to worry much about getting randomly attacked...

    could also be a boring option for someone taking on that job, but hey if we are spit balling ideas

  • Guybrush3pwood2
    Marauder
    Insider

    The thing is.... It's a game about pirates, and what is more piratey than filling a boat full of cannonball holes and filling the crew full of lead?

    Having said that, there needs to be a way to bring likeminded crews together. The current alliance mechanic doesn't really work too well. People are soooo scared when they see a mast on the horizon they normally run away which makes making an alliance hard...

    Perhaps some type of Parley mechanic could be introduced (no idea how that would work) Perhaps a Parley request could be made and an agreed location decided on. Obviously these requests could be used to lure people just with the intention of sinking them, but if you went to a parley island brimming with loot you'd deserve everything you got.

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @norloc see that's a fun way to encourage fun pvp interactions, i think this bounty system would have this same effect and address all the haters concerns too but i like that it feels pirate themed, is intended to help players who are frustrated by the pve griefing and those who are looking for better pvp interactions

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @guybrush3pwood2 what's more piratey than being chased by dogooders for stealing the loot? can we at least agree that many players are quitting over an extremely pervasive set of encounters that are unfun for the ganked and the gankers, as in the don't get the engaging ship battles they are looking for and people running tall tales have nothing to steal and hours of time and energy to lose with no sense of retribution if they had a bigger ship and you cant change ship or recruit and allys

    this bounty idea essentially will encourage people to use the existing parley system of communication and flags and discourage straight up ganking

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @norloc
    This is a good idea.

    But this can already be done now. Players can sail up and offer treasure they have hidden elsewhere to players for protection.

    Whats to say someone wont betray u in this protector system you are offering? The same that happens in an alliance now.

    Whats to say those players fail at protecting you? And your gold is already gone?

  • Ziggybitz024
    Marauder

    @nwo-azcrack but there's no incentive not to just steal it and grief the players, and stealing isnt even stealing unless the law is a tangible things and bountys create that player dynamic, stealing in the current system isn't even nearly as fun or ego rewarding as my idea, it would encourage stealthy stealing and mercy to new players and tall tales questers who have nothing to offer and hours of fun to lose, and more often than not you've ruined their player experience gained nothing and didnt have a fun pvp battle, bountys are pirate themed, and more fun than not having any justice dynamic

  • norloc
    Marauder
    Insider

    @nwo-azcrack I think there would have to be a mechanic in place to say that you couldn't attack someone while they have hired you and you can only be hired by one person. nothing stopping them from breaking it at some point and attack you, they are pirates after all. there would be some kinks to work out this was a spur of the moment thing

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @ziggybitz024
    Mate im not tryin to be mean here. Or a hater as u call it.

    Its just your idea is not original. There is nothing in it that hasnt been debated possibly hundreds of times on this forum.

    As alot of us have told you. It can be abused and create more pvp.

    Im not a game designer. I dont have the answer to this bounty issue im just pointing out the flaws

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @norloc
    Like i said its not a bad idea mate.
    Definetly some kinks.
    How long is the contract?
    What if a player purposly gets attacked after asking for protection?
    Then turns on the savior.

    I could go on and on. I like the idea tho.
    I would love to protect players like i did for 3 days during Hungering Deep.

    Thing is noone has the cannonballs to even ask. Why not start a session and sail up and ask someone while u have nothin to lose? And any system made will have to offer the option to betray. We are pirates after all

  • Guybrush3pwood2
    Marauder
    Insider

    @ziggybitz024 Yeah, that's the reason I like the idea of a bounty, because it's a piratey thing to have. But within a game, a bounty becomes a cool thing to obtain. Like when people would play GTA, sometimes you'd just play to see how many police you could get chasing you and how long you could survive.

    To be honest, I've completed the 1st 3 tall tales. The 1st one 5 times, 2nd one 4 times and the 3rd one once (i'm waiting for a mate to do them with but he's taking ages so I completed some of them without him) and I've not encountered anyone camping the quest islands or sinking me to ruin my fun.

    I had 1 PvP experience bringing captain Briggsy's head back. But even though the pirates killed and sunk me, the compass still pointed to the skulls location and when I found it, the pirates that sunk me gave it back.

    This forum would suggest people are leaving because of this problem... but again, people are always more likely to post a grievance than a positive experience. I don't see any posts here saying "Just had a great night, killed the kraken, 2 megs and completed a quest - Good Job Rare". These experiences do happen, but because the outcome is happiness it doesn't drive people to post about them.

    Without seeing the actual gaming numbers, I'd be basing my hypothesis on an incomplete data set

  • JetOrchidee97
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @norloc a dit dans Sea of thieves adventure mode is practically unplayable 90% of the time. And this simple tweak would make it incredible 100% of the time. :

    what about hiring a mercenary to do your pvp for you, you pay a (in game) daily amount, plus a % of your loot that you cash in. Gaining a bounty I see people wanting to rack up for the hell of it, but getting paid to be someones attacker or protector (being paid to pvp) might be up someones alley, but allows the pve'er do what you want and like without having to worry much about getting randomly attacked...

    could also be a boring option for someone taking on that job, but hey if we are spit balling ideas

    It's a good idea I think. It's something that I discovered in Dark Souls. You know probably, but when you're invaded by a dark spirit, if you equip the right items, it will summon blue spirits that will help you (and they gain items if they succed to help you).

    I always thought it could be a good thing in SoT, it makes it fairer, even though technically it's not, for the beginner player being attacked.

    It would require maybe a new slot for the ship that could accept items like artefacts. Not powerful items but something that would require players to make choices between having the ability to summon mercenaries if being attacked or to have a tiny little bit of speed for example.

    I don't know how it could connect to that but I had the idea of boatless players, in addition of the 6 ships sailing the seas, spawning outside of the Arena Tavern that could be recruited as mercenaries (and making this place a kind of tortuga if fun and simple activities were added). It would need tools to not be abused of course.

  • NWO Azcrack
    Master

    @guybrush3pwood2
    Good post.
    I played solo for 2 hours friday night.
    Took a break and played 2 more.

    Only had one person try and attack me. I let it happen and paid the price tryin to be nice.

    So that makes my experience the opposite of OPs title.

    Aslo i just wanna point out i was that guy in GTA. And the passive mode drove me away. Nothin like gettin 5 stars and pvping at the same time. The whole server is after you. It was fun.

  • GreenCamillion1
    Captain
    Insider

    PLA10 here as well, an see no reason to reward or punish pvp
    have I lost some gold, off cause I have, But have probably stolen more than I have lost.
    Each session is a story, an everyone enjoy succes more than defeat.
    But my defeat is your succes an vice visa.

    Im probably one of the most friendly pirates you can meet on the sea, but one cannon shot can change all of that, where I become the most annoying pirate on the server.

    Think all the tools are there for protecting yourself, since Im PLA10 I dont need/care for gold, but Im a pirate an will not give up any coin without a fight.

    I have even given away Athena chest to some PL that was on the hunt for it(commendation)
    They kinda want to fight for it, an I was like, "If you want the fight, lets do it! or you can just take the chest an have a nice day."
    They chose to have a nice day ;) an we alliance up, an we sold all the other Athena loot I had picked up waiting on my friend to join in.

    Attacking can be fun, but noting beats helping someone out with finding a chest, or doing there first fort.

    So be the change you want to see on sea, be the protecter of the newbs.

  • SurveyorPete
    Legend
    Insider

    Three points...

    Sea of thieves adventure mode is practically unplayable 90% of the time.

    This is clearly not true. Thousands play it. I, for one, do not find it unplayable. Ever.

    And this simple tweak would make it incredible 100% of the time.

    Even if the first statement were true, there is no way this would change the game from "unplayable" to "incredible". And, it would not be a "simple" tweak.

    The concept essentially is, when someone sinks your ship...

    Players do not sink ships. Water sinks ships

    This is why, in Arena, you do not win points for "sinking a ship"; Instead, you lose points when your ship sinks.

  • Okwui
    Ship Mate

    @ziggybitz024 Easily abused and disincentivizes ship battles for boarding. How will it be abused? Players try to board, the only way to deal with it is to defend your self by firing on the other vessel. If you sink them, you get a bounty... for defending yourself. Bounties among pirates is silly. It’s actually not easy to get sunk. All the cries of “this ship came out of nowhere” are just ridiculous because it can’t happen. Most people who sink have made a mistake, plain and simple. I’ve done it myself many times. You sink, you move on. Bounties are just a bad idea.

    There are currently ways to steal without sinking a ship. I do it, others do it. All without bounties.

  • MarsMayflower
    Captain
    Insider

    Nah, it's good the way it is.

  • MarsMayflower
    Captain
    Insider

    @guybrush3pwood2 said in Sea of thieves adventure mode is practically unplayable 90% of the time. And this simple tweak would make it incredible 100% of the time.:

    @ziggybitz024 Yeah, that's the reason I like the idea of a bounty, because it's a piratey thing to have. But within a game, a bounty becomes a cool thing to obtain. Like when people would play GTA, sometimes you'd just play to see how many police you could get chasing you and how long you could survive.

    To be honest, I've completed the 1st 3 tall tales. The 1st one 5 times, 2nd one 4 times and the 3rd one once (i'm waiting for a mate to do them with but he's taking ages so I completed some of them without him) and I've not encountered anyone camping the quest islands or sinking me to ruin my fun.

    I had 1 PvP experience bringing captain Briggsy's head back. But even though the pirates killed and sunk me, the compass still pointed to the skulls location and when I found it, the pirates that sunk me gave it back.

    This forum would suggest people are leaving because of this problem... but again, people are always more likely to post a grievance than a positive experience. I don't see any posts here saying "Just had a great night, killed the kraken, 2 megs and completed a quest - Good Job Rare". These experiences do happen, but because the outcome is happiness it doesn't drive people to post about them.

    Without seeing the actual gaming numbers, I'd be basing my hypothesis on an incomplete data set

    I had a great session tonight. Won a battle solo against two running the reapers and finished off tt8 for the figurehead. Only have tt3 and tt9 left.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @ziggybitz024

    Sea of thieves adventure mode is practically unplayable 90% of the time.

    I have no problems playing it.

    Please do a research on the forum why bounties will encourage me to go full PK and kill you to get the highest bounties available and how i will exploit it to no end.
    Thank you.

    Ok, extra for you.
    As already said i'm actually 50/50 about PvE and PvP.
    A bounties with a picture of me in every tavern.
    Nice, lets get the highest one!
    Need Gold?
    No problem statt an alliance with friends - takes me maximum 30 minutes to get on the same server - set bounty and kill each other endlessly.
    Next Situation.
    You do a fort, enemy ship doesnt shoot just ram you.
    Who can set bounty?
    How do you get rid of them without shooting first?
    And why should they able to set a bounty on you then.

    So many flaws in bounty, Karma or whatever systems trying to regulate thing what need not and cannot properly regulated.

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