@xgodkevin said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@nitrosus I'll play on Xbox with my xim to watch you cry more about this.
Good luck. The xim is TRASH on this game
Why should console users have to buy a KB+M to be on the same level as pc players?
Why shouldn't PC players be forced to play with a controller to make it fair?
This is at heart an xbox game, being played on xbox live, so why should the xbox players be persecuted?
I use a pc & xbox, but i don't see why i should have to buy a KB+M for my console.
I bought a console so i could casually game with my friends & family. I wasn't aware Microsoft were going to make crossplay mandatory & don't see why it has to be.
@logansdadtoo so you think PC players should have to spend €70 on an xbox controller just so that you don't have to spend €20 on a kb+m?
If they did this no PC gamers would ever buy into a crossplay title again. I'm pretty sure MS know full well that if they want PC players to buy into crossplay and the frankly sub-par xbox ecosystem on PC they need to facilitate them using the vast array of hardware choices that come with PC gaming.
Personally, I only bought SoT because I needed a new controller for a couple of VR titles, got the SoT one because I liked the look of it and then became interested because the game which I now had some dlc for looked fun, then I tried the beta which was fun, so I pre-ordered.
I use said controller when playing because it honestly confers very little disadvantage, I still wreck people in PvP. I've tried Kb + m, it's a little more precise on some things but not so much that I don't use the controller 99% of the time. I don't get wrecked by kb + m players and I've lost to people who were xbox players (judging from the negative stuff they've been saying about haxx and PC advantage when I meet them on the ferry)
I have enjoyed playing with my old xbox buddies so I like crossplay.
This is not a fair game - you often can get into fights that you cannot win. People seem to like to blame those situations on hardware but the truth is that tactics and teamwork count for more than skill in most PvP situations.
The only thing that I agree about in terms of imbalance is the fact that PC players have a tactical advantage regarding communication options due to being able to type and use discord etc.
@boxcar-squidy
It's not $20 for a keyboard & mouse for xbox though m8!!
Xbox does not natively support a kb+m so you would have to purchase an XIM adapter or similar (around $100) + a keyboard & mouse ($20)
So you're expecting xbox users to pay out $120, just to have the same control speed & options as pc players?
@logansdadtoo ok well I didn't know the xim thing cost that much, and lets face it if/when MS release an xbox kb+m it's gonna cost $100 or something because that's how they roll.
My point still stands on restricting PC players hardware choice = the death of crossplay. So it's not going to happen as long as MS want crossplay to be a thing.
@boxcar-squidy
I totally understand m8, but you also have to see it from the xbox players point of view.
If they feel / are at a disadvantage due to kb+m & do not wish to purchase extra hardware, then where does that leave them?
Would you continue to play a game where you know you are at a disadvantage due to platform choice?
@logansdadtoo probably not. Well particularly not a game where you can lose hours of progress to another player.
This is a real issue that Rare need to work on, only Rare have the real data on how much more successful PC players are in PvP situations.
The problem, as I see it, is one of perception, not necessarily the reality of imbalance but the perception of imbalance. I have no idea how to fix it. MS could release a kb + m tomorrow and the complaints would just switch to PC players having increased frame rates or haxx or whatever.
@boxcar-squidy
That's my point, people will stop playing if they feel the game is unfair/unbalanced.
There is definitely an imbalance m8, the aiming speed & agility during gunfights, swordfights & ship boarding are all far quicker on pc due to kb+m. I have both xbox & pc, i use both & can see the difference plain as day!
If Rare / MS can balance it, then that's excellent, until then or if they can't they will have to consider making crossplay an option or face losing a percentage of xbox players!
Surely it would be better to let the players have what they want & keep them playing rather than them just leave!
@logansdadtoo well I don't have an xbox so I can't comment with authority, and I have noticed using kb + m that turning is faster, yet I still choose to use a controller because, for me, the difference is not significant enough to feel disadvantaged. Perhaps there's more to the imbalance that you have noticed than just the input methods.
Have you tried using your controller on PC? Is there a difference between controller on PC versus controller on xbox?
If not then perhaps it's just in my head and I'm gimping myself using a controller on PC but I certainly don't feel that I'm at a disadvantage and I win more than I lose in PvP.
I absolutely love the crossplay. I bought it on xbox and enjoy the couch experience and the flip over to my pc because I have 4k for it. It runs great in both. I think the keyboard is awkward for getting things in and out of barrels and sword fighting compared to xbox controller but shooting and single key to switch is nice. I like having both and lets me play with more people with mics and this game is all about communication which is sorely need in the xbox community.
@boxcar-squidy
I have played with controller on pc & there is no difference between them, hence why i have mentioned before about pc players being forced to use a controller (as this would be the perfect balance), but like you said it would make a lot of pc players leave!
There are many other factors that will decide whether you win or lose in SOT - tactics, skill, communication, teamwork etc.
But when you meet a similarly experienced player using a KB+M then that's when the problem seems more prominent.
@logansdadtoo said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@boxcar-squidy
It's not $20 for a keyboard & mouse for xbox though m8!!
Xbox does not natively support a kb+m so you would have to purchase an XIM adapter or similar (around $100) + a keyboard & mouse ($20)
So you're expecting xbox users to pay out $120, just to have the same control speed & options as pc players?
Blame microsoft then, for hobbling your console. Not PC users because they have options.
KB+M isnt hard for console. Dreamcast had one f*s. There was even a keypad attachment for the 360 controller.
@sausijxzal
It's not a case of hobbling the console, because funnily enough all consoles come with controllers!
I have a pc which i use kb+m on, i bought a console so i don't have to!!
I blame MS for forcing cross play with such an obvious imbalance.
@logansdadtoo said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@sausijxzal
It's not a case of hobbling the console, because funnily enough all consoles come with controllers!
I have a pc which i use kb+m on, i bought a console so i don't have to!!
I blame MS for forcing cross play with such an obvious imbalance.
And all consoles have the capability for KB+M.
And yes it is a case of hobbling the console, considering the parts inside it are just cutdown/locked/restricted components found in PCs.
Crossplay isn't the issue. Using M+KB over controller isn't the issue. There have been dozens of games that crossplay perfectly fine, Rocket League, Fortnite, Street Fighter (and yes they have "similar" arguments over control pads vs fightboxes/sticks "because more buttons").
Even on older consoles, we saw the "same" complaints like Worms World Party for PC vs Dreamcast.
The issue is Microsoft are't allowing you to use Keyboards and Mice because they want to keep milking you for £50-70 a controller, instead of allowing you to use cheaper keyboards and mice.
Rare nerfing "pc users" down to the consoles pitiful state isn't going to help the game succeed. Its just going to promote suffering for everyone.
And as usual the benefits of controllers over KB+M are being dismissed. Sure we may get "muh dps can spin 360 and perfickt aim" or a few extra keys (ignoring the actual usable amount of keys due to finger stretch/reachability).
Do you know what we don't get.. we don't get haptic feedback, or the ease of just tilting an analogue stick. We don't get pressure sensitive keys to allow for varying degrees of acceleration. But we don't complain about it, because we have the OPTION to use a controller.
You know what we do get though out of crossplay?
Nerfed graphical quality, tiny world sizes, tiny server sizes, stupid FPS caps and limited menu support.
As for:
I have a pc which i use kb+m on, i bought a console so i don't have to!!
There are sacrifices to be made on both sides for using either platform.
If you want the benefit of "pixel perfect aiming" from keyboards, hound microsoft to ACTUALLY support it instead of making promises since 2015!
You chose to use a controller and said so yourself, so take glee in the advantage a controller brings (even if you choose to wilfully ignore those advantages) or switch to KB+M.
@sausijxzal said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
Crossplay isn't the issue. Using M+KB over controller isn't the issue. There have been dozens of games that crossplay perfectly fine, Rocket League, Fortnite, Street Fighter (and yes they have "similar" arguments over control pads vs fightboxes/sticks "because more buttons").
But those games have an option to disable crossplay!!! LOL
That's why cross play is working perfectly for those games!
@logansdadtoo said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@sausijxzal said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
Crossplay isn't the issue. Using M+KB over controller isn't the issue. There have been dozens of games that crossplay perfectly fine, Rocket League, Fortnite, Street Fighter (and yes they have "similar" arguments over control pads vs fightboxes/sticks "because more buttons").
But those games have an option to disable crossplay!!! LOL
And?
99% of the time, most people don't. Cross Play is on by default and the only "major" complaint out of ALL of those regarding crossplay specifically, was Rocket League and PS4 latency issues when connecting to PC. Which was a server coding issue and is all but fixed.
Turning off crossplay, won't "magically" solve the problems you seem to think stem from PC.
You'll next complain like in the Street Fighter example, that certain controllers give benefits over standard controllers.
You're the kind of person where there will ALWAYS be something at fault and will demand the OTHER be nerfed to match your chosen method of play.
@sausijxzal
How the hell do you know 99% of people don't use it?
Have you personally asked everyone, or have you just picked a number to suit you?
At least they have the option to use it & if they want to they can. That's all we're asking for here. If 99% of users (according to you) won't use it, whats the issue with letting us have the option?
Giving the option will stop most of the issues, as all those that want it will use it, all that don't won't.
The reason there is no issue with cross play in any other game, is because it isn't forced! People have the option of using it or not!
@nitrosus I completely agree. I could list a lot more advantages that PC has, but I've done it so many times I'm already tired. Just for the record, I also have SoT on PC, Xbox One, and Xbox One X.
This argument is neverending. I also think that by removing crossplay, or not trying to push it into acceptance, Microsoft loses the only feature currently going for them.
Rare should perhaps just allow keyboard and mouse support on the Xbox. The hardware itself already supports it natively, so please just enable it for the people being so unhappy with this.
This will give people the most choices of how to play. Just as people go out and replace their controllers with elite versions or mods, they can go for full mouse and keyboard or specific console versions of such made for FPS games.
Then we can enable Textchat for those players as well and hopefully people will be happy.
@sir-rhavi No, what Rare needs to do is make cross-play optional like any other game does (also MS games). Adding M&K support for SoT on Xbox will just make it worse.
@captain-surgee said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@sir-rhavi No, what Rare needs to do is make cross-play optional like any other game does (also MS games). Adding M&K support for SoT on Xbox will just make it worse.
wow, care to elaborate on that?
@sir-rhavi Those that are still playing with a controller are even more disadvantaged then. They're not only playing against pc players but they also have to deal against m/kb users on xbox then.
That is even worse than "just" forced cross-play.
@cnt-thelrox said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@sir-rhavi Those that are still playing with a controller are even more disadvantaged then. They're not only playing against pc players but they also have to deal against m/kb users on xbox then.
That is even worse than "just" forced cross-play.
This game is very playable on controllers, the point of that would be simple: If you care so much about it, you use a mouse & keyboard. If you dont, you use a controller. I play daily with a PC player that uses a controller, because he wants to. So how is it worse? You want the choice, you should have the choice.
@hot-juicy-pie dijo en Crossplay (I Own Both):
@nebenkuh Add that to the long list of things Rare needs to address.
if you turn sensitivity too much you will lose accuracy and finesse in movements. Pros usually use low sensitivity to get pinpoint accuracy.
@sir-rhavi I just gave you the answer to the question that was directed at @Captain-Surgee
And you don't need to argue with me. We won't agree anyway no matter what.
@logansdadtoo said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
The reason there is no issue with cross play in any other game, is because it isn't forced! People have the option of using it or not!
No the reason there is no issue with crossplay is because the player bases accept the limitations of their chosen devices, or make the necessary adaptations of their own volition.
PC Users in RL werent going around demanding gameplay changes just because they didnt have analogue driving (pressure sens).
PS4 users werent going around complaining they didn't have text function, because their console supports a form of keyboarding.
You seem to think Im arguing that an optional disabling of crossplay shouldn't be allowed.
Im not. Im arguing that its unnecessary.
Disabling cross play and staying in your own little stagnant pool, isn't going to fix the inherent problems in the games design and as said in the former post;
Once youve isolated yourself and can no longer blame PC users "cheating" or the "waa KB+M advantage" you'll start complaining about other things that are more console specific.
You'll whine about people with turbo buttons, or macro controllers, you'll whine about how the "new model" of the xbox renders faster or some b******t.
An optional disable of crossplay will not fix what you have been complaining about all thread.
@sir-rhavi Do I really need to elaborate the obvious? Mouse & Keyboard is not the holy grail that console players are drolling at. It's easier to play with it, it's easier to "click" at enemies, but it's not more fun at all. We prefer to play with a controller, that's one of the reasons we own consoles. For many, it's more immersive and comfortable. The experience is just different. At the same time, we're still competitive and we expect to play against people that have same setups. Console gaming was always about fair chances and equality. Throwing in M&K into the mix will divide the players even more, and a lot will just give up and quit (that's what I'd do for sure).
@sausijxzal
Your 1st point is mere speculation, you can have no idea if the player bases accept the limitations of their chosen devices, or make the necessary adaptations of their own volition. That's basically a load of guff to try & make your made up statement sound more intelligent than it is & was not really a reply to why cross play works without issue when it's given as an option.
I have been complaining about the advantages that pc players have over xbox players, nothing more nothing less.
Therefore optional crossplay will fix everything I have been complaining about & is necessary.
I have both and I play on pc with an xbox controller hooked to a tv while I sit back on the couch. I don't care that I may be playing against other pc players using mouse and keyboard.
It is a video game. Not my job or my life. I just don't care that much.
What I do care about is playing with my friends who only own an xbox. I'd prefer the potential number of players to remain as high as possible for the life of the game and I think crossplay is the best way to ensure that.
@captain-surgee said in Crossplay (I Own Both):
@sir-rhavi Do I really need to elaborate the obvious? Mouse & Keyboard is not the holy grail that console players are drolling at. It's easier to play with it, it's easier to "click" at enemies, but it's not more fun at all. We prefer to play with a controller, that's one of the reasons we own consoles. For many, it's more immersive and comfortable. The experience is just different. At the same time, we're still competitive and we expect to play against people that have same setups. Console gaming was always about fair chances and equality. Throwing in M&K into the mix will divide the players even more, and a lot will just give up and quit (that's what I'd do for sure).
... you're saying everyone has to have the exact same experience as you or you'll quit? then please quit. 200 ping is a different experience then 60 too, do you want to limit demographics then?
heck, couch is different then chair, should we limit those too? 50 inch tv is different then 24 inch tv, limit those?
the ideal is for everyone to have the same choices, but make your own, and you're complaining everyone should have YOUR experience only. Do you not see that?
Ahoy there!
We now have a dedicated mega thread for your feedback and discussion of cross-play and play-anywhere.
Global Moderators and Deckhands will be redirecting and locking topics related to cross-play into the recently requested mega-thread to allow other discussions to be cultivated and not overwhelmed.
If you see a topic that should be directed to a mega-thread, let the OP know or flag it and let us know!
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/55775/mega-thread-play-anywhere-and-cross-play-part-3
