@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
That would feel disgusting on a mouse. The amount of picking up and dropping it would require. Youd need like a 20ft mousepad.
Just put in more sensitivity options and bring keyboard support to xbox.
Or you just move your hand slower to match the speed because over moving and adding more input the possible (like button mashing) wouldnt help you.
Ummmmm..
If moving your wrist 1mm enters the same input as moving 1cm but the turn speed in game reaction time is based on time of input and not distance then slowing down the movement would result in a more natural feel for the game and would level the playing field across nice gaming mice cheap plug in ones.
As in calm down and move the mouse slower instead of farther.
Most constructive thread on the issue I've ever seen. People not letting their feelings get the better of the conversation.
As for what you said I still really don't understand. That would still feel gross on the mousepad and/or isnt possible?
Anyone else?
Isn't possible.
Rattly doesnt quite grasp the concept of analogue vs digital input.
Case in point, rubber band on a controller joystick so it pushes forward. The controller registers on the axis it is "off centre" and begins emitting a signal indicating movement is needed.
A mouse laser does not have a Centre point. Once you stop moving it, it becomes centred. Moving a mouse slower will not save you mouse mat space.
I think Rattly is misapplying the logic of "excess movement".
@leqwack Because... as I already said once and therefore I'll just copy and paste to you. Do you think people playing on Xbox really want keyboard support? Do you really think we'll switch to mouse and keyboard? No... The answer is no, nobody wants that. Some might play on console because they can't afford a powerful PC. Most of us play on console because we don't want to play on PC. I don't want to play with a mouse and keyboard. There isn't a game on the market that my PC couldn't run on the best settings it's got but I don't play PvP games on PC for a reason. I do work with a mouse and keyboard and I play games with a controller and that's what I want. I just don't want to play games against people with an advantage of that mouse and keyboard. More so, I don't want to play with PC people because that's where ALL the HACKS and CHEATS come from in all cases. So can we just stop this "bring keyboard support to xbox" garbage.
@sausijxzal said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@gloog said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
That would feel disgusting on a mouse. The amount of picking up and dropping it would require. Youd need like a 20ft mousepad.
Just put in more sensitivity options and bring keyboard support to xbox.
Or you just move your hand slower to match the speed because over moving and adding more input the possible (like button mashing) wouldnt help you.
Ummmmm..
If moving your wrist 1mm enters the same input as moving 1cm but the turn speed in game reaction time is based on time of input and not distance then slowing down the movement would result in a more natural feel for the game and would level the playing field across nice gaming mice cheap plug in ones.
As in calm down and move the mouse slower instead of farther.
Most constructive thread on the issue I've ever seen. People not letting their feelings get the better of the conversation.
As for what you said I still really don't understand. That would still feel gross on the mousepad and/or isnt possible?
Anyone else?Isn't possible.
Rattly doesnt quite grasp the concept of analogue vs digital input.
Case in point, rubber band on a controller joystick so it pushes forward. The controller registers on the axis it is "off centre" and begins emitting a signal indicating movement is needed.
A mouse laser does not have a Centre point. Once you stop moving it, it becomes centred. Moving a mouse slower will not save you mouse mat space.
I think Rattly is misapplying the logic of "excess movement".
No im saying alter the input parameter because the laser by nature detects movement and the input side of it could change from movement distance to movement duration.
Uh okay man if you don’t want to play with a kb/m on ur Xbox no one is making you.
Maybe you misinterpreted but no where do I say or anyone else say that it would replace the controller or something and make you play with a kb/m.
We’re simply saying why not give people the option. If they want to. Cool. If they don’t. Cool.
It's not just about turn speed. PC also has the ability to point and click to target/shoot. Mouse pointer is better than a controller joystick to target/shoot. No way to make them the same. That is just the mouse to controller differences.
Regarding the PC player complaints that giving us the option to toggle crossplay would "alienate them" and would be unfair. These complaints are nonsense. How can you claim that it would be unfair to do this, but then in the very next sentence say its OK for PC players to have an advantage? It's only unacceptable when YOU are harmed huh? Are you the only PC player? Can't you just play with other PC folks and anyone else on XBOX that doesn't mind crossplay? Since the people that have a problem with it are the "vocal minority" you should still have plenty of xbox players to take advantage of right?
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
It's not just about turn speed. PC also has the ability to point and click to target/shoot. Mouse pointer is better than a controller joystick to target/shoot. No way to make them the same. That is just the mouse to controller differences.
Regarding the PC player complaints that giving us the option to toggle crossplay would "alienate them" and would be unfair. These complaints are nonsense. How can you claim that it would be unfair to do this, but then in the very next sentence say its OK for PC players to have an advantage? It's only unacceptable when YOU are harmed huh? Are you the only PC player? Can't you just play with other PC folks and anyone else on XBOX that doesn't mind crossplay? Since the people that have a problem with it are the "vocal minority" you should still have plenty of xbox players to take advantage of right?
Mitigating one advantage levels the playing field to acceptable levels as point and click will only have an advantage in gun play, an arguably small portion of combat.
Yes, it would alienate people and there is no need to do so. The intent of Rare is to keep the community as a single solid group. Balancing advantages is one way to do that whereas splitting the group is detrimental to that vision :)
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
It's not just about turn speed. PC also has the ability to point and click to target/shoot. Mouse pointer is better than a controller joystick to target/shoot. No way to make them the same. That is just the mouse to controller differences.
Regarding the PC player complaints that giving us the option to toggle crossplay would "alienate them" and would be unfair. These complaints are nonsense. How can you claim that it would be unfair to do this, but then in the very next sentence say its OK for PC players to have an advantage? It's only unacceptable when YOU are harmed huh? Are you the only PC player? Can't you just play with other PC folks and anyone else on XBOX that doesn't mind crossplay? Since the people that have a problem with it are the "vocal minority" you should still have plenty of xbox players to take advantage of right?
Mitigating one advantage levels the playing field to acceptable levels as point and click will only have an advantage in gun play, an arguably small portion of combat.
Yes, it would alienate people and there is no need to do so. The intent of Rare is to keep the community as a single solid group. Balancing advantages is one way to do that whereas splitting the group is detrimental to that vision :)
What about their "vision" for a fair play environment? By saying "balancing advantages" you admit PC has advantages. Thank you. You say point and click only give an advantage in gun play, an arguably small portion of combat. Fine I'll argue it. It is THE MOST important and most common form of combat. How many gun kills do you have? How many all other kills do you have?
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
It's not just about turn speed. PC also has the ability to point and click to target/shoot. Mouse pointer is better than a controller joystick to target/shoot. No way to make them the same. That is just the mouse to controller differences.
Regarding the PC player complaints that giving us the option to toggle crossplay would "alienate them" and would be unfair. These complaints are nonsense. How can you claim that it would be unfair to do this, but then in the very next sentence say its OK for PC players to have an advantage? It's only unacceptable when YOU are harmed huh? Are you the only PC player? Can't you just play with other PC folks and anyone else on XBOX that doesn't mind crossplay? Since the people that have a problem with it are the "vocal minority" you should still have plenty of xbox players to take advantage of right?
Mitigating one advantage levels the playing field to acceptable levels as point and click will only have an advantage in gun play, an arguably small portion of combat.
Yes, it would alienate people and there is no need to do so. The intent of Rare is to keep the community as a single solid group. Balancing advantages is one way to do that whereas splitting the group is detrimental to that vision :)What about their "vision" for a fair play environment? By saying "balancing advantages" you admit PC has advantages. Thank you. You say point and click only give an advantage in gun play, an arguably small portion of combat. Fine I'll argue it. It is THE MOST important and most common form of combat. How many gun kills do you have? How many all other kills do you have?
I win more of my fights using cannonballs and outmanuevering peoples ships. So most of my kills are with cannon fire. Second to that I have focused on wordplay and tend to win those fights more than not because everyone is focused on the blunderbus and once they are out of ammo they aren't prepaired for close combat.
Edit: I have been killed by more skeletons with guns than players with guns and have sunk more ships than iv been sunk by ships. Including by boarders and by explosive barrels.
Double edit: with reload speeds as they are, getting one perfect shot does not gaurantee you win the fight as such, k/m twitch shooting capes are not as big of an advantage as in other games with sustained fire.
@leqwack
At the moment there isn't officially kb+m support for xbox one.
You can buy an adapter (around £100) which enables kb+m support, but not many will pay that just to use kb+m for 1 or 2 games!
MS say they will be adding support, but when is a different question, 'if' is more likely. They are making £££'s off selling controllers, so i doubt they are in too much of a rush to enable it.
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.
It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.
Xbox can't.
Therefore it will never be a level playing field.
The end
Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...
Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.
Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.
It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.
I know this and agree.
But
Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.
Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.
There's a difference
Again, I dont think its fair to call every PC player a cheater. I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)
I dont think the few people that do cheat have ruined the pc community enough that we need to remove all pc players.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but a new pc account means the progress is lost and as the purchase of the game is digital it is linked to a single account in the pc.
At no point did I blame all pc players. At no point did I say remove them.
What I said was
It should be optional
Once again, there's a difference.
I'm glad you've not witnessed cheating. I have. Hell they actually bragged about it over coms.
So asking for the option to play with my peers alone isn't a bad thing.
And your MLB comment is a straw man. No one thinks of SoT like that,
But
No one should be able to cheat and ruin the playing experience of others. A fair kill is a fair kill.
Using a mod that can auto aim cannons?That ruins the game as even the best player misses cannon shots.
No one should cheat but alienating all pc players because some do is unfair. MLG not mlb... not a straw man because the game is not designed as a highly competative game. It is a social experience with a competative nature.
Because it is not a competative game the parameters for imbalance between players can be wider without an upset to the overall structure and purpose to the game. Meaning it is ok that pc players have some advantage.
I can't tell if you're legit not getting the rather easy to understand idea here or trolling so I'll spell it out.
Xbox and PC both should have the option to play with their own console servers only. It's an option .
No one is getting left out. Each platform could still cross play, but also have the option to play peer platform only.
How is that not fair? Unless you're cheating and like the benefit of forced cross play, there's no reason to be offended by the idea...🤔
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.
It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.
Xbox can't.
Therefore it will never be a level playing field.
The end
Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...
Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.
Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.
It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.
I know this and agree.
But
Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.
Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.
There's a difference
Again, I dont think its fair to call every PC player a cheater. I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)
I dont think the few people that do cheat have ruined the pc community enough that we need to remove all pc players.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but a new pc account means the progress is lost and as the purchase of the game is digital it is linked to a single account in the pc.
At no point did I blame all pc players. At no point did I say remove them.
What I said was
It should be optional
Once again, there's a difference.
I'm glad you've not witnessed cheating. I have. Hell they actually bragged about it over coms.
So asking for the option to play with my peers alone isn't a bad thing.
And your MLB comment is a straw man. No one thinks of SoT like that,
But
No one should be able to cheat and ruin the playing experience of others. A fair kill is a fair kill.
Using a mod that can auto aim cannons?That ruins the game as even the best player misses cannon shots.
No one should cheat but alienating all pc players because some do is unfair. MLG not mlb... not a straw man because the game is not designed as a highly competative game. It is a social experience with a competative nature.
Because it is not a competative game the parameters for imbalance between players can be wider without an upset to the overall structure and purpose to the game. Meaning it is ok that pc players have some advantage.I can't tell if you're legit not getting the rather easy to understand idea here or trolling so I'll spell it out.
Xbox and PC both should have the option to play with their own console servers only. It's an option .
No one is getting left out. Each platform could still cross play, but also have the option to play peer platform only.
How is that not fair? Unless you're cheating and like the benefit of forced cross play, there's no reason to be offended by the idea...🤔
Sure, that could be a solution. But as rare has saud multiple times they don't want to divide the player base in any way it is not by any means an optimal solution.
Here you go again though saying that anyone who likes cross play must be a cheater.
Gasp "you mean not all pc players cheat?"
That's right! Not everyone is a cheater and there are solutions other than dividing the community.
Sure, rare could cop out and split the community, or they could find a way to balance the gameplay so that noone feels like it's unfair. I would hate to see them step back to segregated playerbase and give up on the dream of a unified gamer community.
Part of the gamer community cheats, yes. But don't place that burden on PC players alone. Just because part of an organism has a disease does not mean the entire creature has to die
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob I dispute your claim about what Rare has said regarding crossplay. Post a video or text link of "multiple" Rare announcements that explicitly say "they don't want to divide the player base".
"No asterisk cross play"
"No compromises"
Nowhere in that video do they talk about forced crossplay as the requirement. The video is ACTUALLY about one CODEBASE for both versions of the game. Disagree with it if you want, that is what was said. Lets say you do disagree and claim this video is them saying YES, we are forcing crossplay on everyone. You claimed RARE said this MULTIPLE TIMES. Where is your second link/video?
@leqwack said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Why does RARE not simply allow for kb/m for Xbox? Is it more complicated than just allowing the Xbox version of the game to recognize the kb/m?
I wonder if the Xbox one itself has to be fitted to allow kb/m before the game can actually utilize the option. Anyone know?
What I can tell you is that Final Fantasy XIV on PS4 supports mouse and keyboard (and PC supports PS4 controllers), and so its mostly equal in this respect. I don't see any reason why this couoldnt be done here, its not like you can't plug a USB keyboard and mouse into an xbox one.
That being said I don't think its important for this game- You really can't easily tell if someone is a PC or xbox user.
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Nowhere in that video do they talk about forced crossplay as the requirement. The video is ACTUALLY about one CODEBASE for both versions of the game. Disagree with it if you want, that is what was said. Lets say you do disagree and claim this video is them saying YES, we are forcing crossplay on everyone. You claimed RARE said this MULTIPLE TIMES. Where is your second link/video?
I'll post more links in a second, sorry playing the game :)
And i think that a mantra of no asterisk Crossplay would extend to limiting it
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@jimmy-voorhees said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@rattlyfob because it's not about turn speed.
It's about PC having the ability to hardware mod and software mod.
Xbox can't.
Therefore it will never be a level playing field.
The end
Normally I would dismiss this kind of post as nonconstructive and childish. But for the sake of the conversation...
Hardware modifications are a capability for pc and console players but console players usually dont do it. I have seen custom controllers with different triggers and button placement.
Software modification to the SoT code is considered cheating and while it is easier on a pc it is again possible on xbox. But again mute point because it is cheating and will slowly be eliminated. Beyond that, being mad at all pc players for a few cheaters is a logical fallacy as the whole is not the part.
It may not be a perfect level field but we can get close and especially because this is not an MLB game the drawbacks and allowed variance for input are more acceptable at wider parameters.
I know this and agree.
But
Until Rare gets their anti cheat act together, they need to divide it. A simple Google search shows how easy it is to cheat on pc. Cheating on Xbox is MUCH more difficult, and once caught, said Xbox can never be used online again.
Meanwhile the pc player simply makes a new account.
There's a difference
Again, I dont think its fair to call every PC player a cheater. I am sorry for any actual cheaters you have run into but I have yet to see a single one. (I have been playing from the start and am surprised that I havnt seen any cheaters)
I dont think the few people that do cheat have ruined the pc community enough that we need to remove all pc players.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but a new pc account means the progress is lost and as the purchase of the game is digital it is linked to a single account in the pc.
At no point did I blame all pc players. At no point did I say remove them.
What I said was
It should be optional
Once again, there's a difference.
I'm glad you've not witnessed cheating. I have. Hell they actually bragged about it over coms.
So asking for the option to play with my peers alone isn't a bad thing.
And your MLB comment is a straw man. No one thinks of SoT like that,
But
No one should be able to cheat and ruin the playing experience of others. A fair kill is a fair kill.
Using a mod that can auto aim cannons?That ruins the game as even the best player misses cannon shots.
No one should cheat but alienating all pc players because some do is unfair. MLG not mlb... not a straw man because the game is not designed as a highly competative game. It is a social experience with a competative nature.
Because it is not a competative game the parameters for imbalance between players can be wider without an upset to the overall structure and purpose to the game. Meaning it is ok that pc players have some advantage.I can't tell if you're legit not getting the rather easy to understand idea here or trolling so I'll spell it out.
Xbox and PC both should have the option to play with their own console servers only. It's an option .
No one is getting left out. Each platform could still cross play, but also have the option to play peer platform only.
How is that not fair? Unless you're cheating and like the benefit of forced cross play, there's no reason to be offended by the idea...🤔
This option has no reason to exist. Players are not identified by platform and there's no easily discernable means of distinguishing a PC or xbox player. There is no reason to choose not to crossplay, because it doesn't impact gameplay in any measurable way. People used to playing with gamepads tend to feel like their gamepads are superior to mouse/keyboard play anyway, I dont know any dieheard controller users that actually think their input method is better or vice versa for keyboard users. It's really a personal preference thing, neither is innately superior- it all depends on how its implemented and how the player makes use of it.
It's not worth the development time that could be spent on other tasks considering how insignificant an issue this is. Options are bad when they compromise development on other things.
Just make cross platform OPTIONAL.
It is not complicated. It is not hard. It should not be an issue.
A check box in the lobby that is defaulted to "on".
That is all that needs to happen.
Despite metathesiophobic efforts to twist the issue and invent justifications not to do it there is no good argument not to make it optional.
Edit: And Hoboprof and LoboFh I don't want to hear your whining. I have discussed this issue with you two ad nauseam on other threads. Your justifications for keeping the competitive advantage you have against console players are stupid and selfish.
@rattlyfob said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Nowhere in that video do they talk about forced crossplay as the requirement. The video is ACTUALLY about one CODEBASE for both versions of the game. Disagree with it if you want, that is what was said. Lets say you do disagree and claim this video is them saying YES, we are forcing crossplay on everyone. You claimed RARE said this MULTIPLE TIMES. Where is your second link/video?
I'll post more links in a second, sorry playing the game :)
And i think that a mantra of no asterisk Crossplay would extend to limiting it
- not wanting to divide their playerbase can be seen on their stance towards paid dlc and future content updates.
What you think about "a mantra of no asterisk crossplay" and what it might extend to is irrelevant. That isn't what they said. There's a difference between claiming someone explicitly stated something and inferring it from their statement.
@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just make cross platform OPTIONAL.
It is not complicated. It is not hard. It should not be an issue.
A check box in the lobby that is defaulted to "on".
That is all that needs to happen.
Despite metathesiophobic efforts to twist the issue and invent justifications not to do it there is no good argument not to make it optional.
Edit: And Hoboprof and LoboFh I don't want to hear your whining. I have discussed this issue with you two ad nauseam on other threads. Your justifications for keeping the competitive advantage you have against console players are stupid and selfish.
As I just wrote, it doesn't need to be optional. You don't know what platform your crew members or enemies are on and there is nothing about them or their behavior that can tell you which. There is no advantage to having such an option.
If you're concerned about cheating, cheating is just as possible on either platform and limiting yourself to your platform's players does nothing about cheating.
@leqwack I know what you're saying. You're saying it because you actually think anybody wants that as an option. It would be ridiculous to say absolutely not a single person wants that but that is very close to how many really do want that. I would be willing to bet that if that option were there, less than 1% of people would actually even try, let alone use keyboard and mouse from their xbox. I would bet quite a lot on it as well. So many PC players look at keyboard and mouse as though it's the pinnacle of control. For those who are good with it, there is a PvP advantage in sensitivity and spot-on aiming. For most of us who play on console though... we see gaming with keyboard and mouse over a controller a lot like trading in a surfboard for a barn door to catch some waves.
@northman737 said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@leqwack I know what you're saying. You're saying it because you actually think anybody wants that as an option. It would be ridiculous to say absolutely not a single person wants that but that is very close to how many really do want that. I would be willing to bet that if that option were there, less than 1% of people would actually even try, let alone use keyboard and mouse from their xbox. I would bet quite a lot on it as well.
The number of people that would use it is irrelevant, the ability to do so by itself would mean that if you really think one method or the other has an advantage, you could choose the on you think is most advantageous regardless of platform. Thus eliminating any need to segregate by platform.
Now, a mouse is less likely but a keyboard is useful for online games even on xbox, its way more functional than those chat pad things, if they're even still a thing on xbox one (i have no idea, i just know about the one for the 360 controller).
@tahngarthor No, the number who would use it is not irrelevant. The devs have plenty to do and plenty to worry about in adding content to this game to keep it from dying already. They do not need to waste time adding c**p that nobody wants and nobody will use just so the option is there. In theory there is all sorts of c**p they could add for the sake of adding even though it would be a pointless waste of effort. It turns out that the best business as well as success driver is the prudent use of resources. Wasting man-power and monetary resources adding things nobody wants or will use does not fall into the "prudent" category it turns out.
Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.
fix'd that for ya
@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just make cross platform OPTIONAL.
It is not complicated. It is not hard. It should not be an issue.
A check box in the lobby that is defaulted to "on".
That is all that needs to happen.
Despite metathesiophobic efforts to twist the issue and invent justifications not to do it there is no good argument not to make it optional.
Edit: And Hoboprof and LoboFh I don't want to hear your whining. I have discussed this issue with you two ad nauseam on other threads. Your justifications for keeping the competitive advantage you have against console players are stupid and selfish.
As I just wrote, it doesn't need to be optional. You don't know what platform your crew members or enemies are on and there is nothing about them or their behavior that can tell you which. There is no advantage to having such an option.
If you're concerned about cheating, cheating is just as possible on either platform and limiting yourself to your platform's players does nothing about cheating.
You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issue.
Cheating is a secondary concern. The primary concern is that PC players have a competitive advantage entirely due to the quicker and more precise mouse and keyboard control scheme.
Cheating is a secondary concern but you are being disengenous claiming cheating exists on both platforms.
Cheating on a PC is easy, there is an entire industry of program writers selling cheat software, it is harder to get got, and when you get caught you only lose you license.
Cheating is a SIGNIFICANTLY greater problem on the PC.
Cheating on the Xbox One requires MODIFYING THE SYSTEM. There are no easy or user accessible mods. It takes a lot of skill and expertise to do even for skilled modder there is a strong risk of bricking the Xbox one due to detection mechanisms built into the platform and into the Xbox Live ecosystem. Xbox One cheaters are a rare breed. In fact they are UNICORNS.
Even hacking teams whose entire reputations online are based on their ability to find exploits and show them to the community have STILL NOT SUCCESFULLY HACKED AN XBOX ONE...
Here is the Faq from a major hacking/cheat site about the Xbox one...
Is there a way to cheat in Xbox One games and in online multiplayer?
In Short: While getting hacks to work is certainly possible on Xbox One, it is a highly complex process no matter what method you are going for. Unless the cheats are already hardcoded into the game as a feature, some serious external hardware and software is required on top of the know-how and the method to either run unsigned code, hacke the hardware or edit packets correctly. This is the case for both online and offline titles.
Is it currently possible to run unsigned programs / code on a Xbox One? > NO!
Currently there are no known ways of running unsigned code, any program that is executed on an Xbox One is verified using encryption keys to verify the file integrity. Aside for quickly patched exploits, the chances of execution of unsigned code which would be required for client-side hacks, aimbots, bots ect is currently not possible.
Physically hacking the Xbox: While this has not been done yet, memory editing and executing of hacks is certainly possible through hardware hacks that allow interception of ram data in order to inject hacks directly into the game data on the actual RAM. However, this is another incredibly expensive and complicated venture that so far is only based in theory.
SO CLAIMING THAT THERE ARE CHEATERS ON THE XBOX ONE IS A LIE!!!
@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@perfecshionist said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just make cross platform OPTIONAL.
It is not complicated. It is not hard. It should not be an issue.
A check box in the lobby that is defaulted to "on".
That is all that needs to happen.
Despite metathesiophobic efforts to twist the issue and invent justifications not to do it there is no good argument not to make it optional.
Edit: And Hoboprof and LoboFh I don't want to hear your whining. I have discussed this issue with you two ad nauseam on other threads. Your justifications for keeping the competitive advantage you have against console players are stupid and selfish.
As I just wrote, it doesn't need to be optional. You don't know what platform your crew members or enemies are on and there is nothing about them or their behavior that can tell you which. There is no advantage to having such an option.
If you're concerned about cheating, cheating is just as possible on either platform and limiting yourself to your platform's players does nothing about cheating.
You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issue.
Cheating is a secondary concern. The primary concern is that PC players have a competitive advantage entirely due to the quicker and more precise mouse and keyboard control scheme.
Cheating is a secondary concern but you are being disengenous claiming cheating exists on both platforms.
Cheating on a PC is easy, there is an entire industry of program writers selling cheat software, it is harder to get got, and when you get caught you only lose you license.
Cheating is a SIGNIFICANTLY greater problem on the PC.
Cheating on the Xbox One requires MODIFYING THE SYSTEM. There are no easy or user accessible mods. It takes a lot of skill and expertise to do even for skilled modder there is a strong risk of bricking the Xbox one due to detection mechanisms built into the platform and into the Xbox Live ecosystem. Xbox One cheaters are a rare breed. In fact they are UNICORNS.
Even hacking teams whose entire reputations online are based on their ability to find exploits and show them to the community have STILL NOT SUCCESFULLY HACKED AN XBOX ONE...
Here is the Faq from a major hacking/cheat site about the Xbox one...
Is there a way to cheat in Xbox One games and in online multiplayer?
In Short: While getting hacks to work is certainly possible on Xbox One, it is a highly complex process no matter what method you are going for. Unless the cheats are already hardcoded into the game as a feature, some serious external hardware and software is required on top of the know-how and the method to either run unsigned code, hacke the hardware or edit packets correctly. This is the case for both online and offline titles.Is it currently possible to run unsigned programs / code on a Xbox One? > NO!
Currently there are no known ways of running unsigned code, any program that is executed on an Xbox One is verified using encryption keys to verify the file integrity. Aside for quickly patched exploits, the chances of execution of unsigned code which would be required for client-side hacks, aimbots, bots ect is currently not possible.Physically hacking the Xbox: While this has not been done yet, memory editing and executing of hacks is certainly possible through hardware hacks that allow interception of ram data in order to inject hacks directly into the game data on the actual RAM. However, this is another incredibly expensive and complicated venture that so far is only based in theory.
SO CLAIMING THAT THERE ARE CHEATERS ON THE XBOX ONE IS A LIE!!!
You demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the issue.
Insulting me doesn't make your argument more valid.
There is no competitive advantage to being on the PC. Thinking mouse and keyboard is superior is entirely an opinion and not a proveable fact. Hell i play another cross platform game (Final Fantasy XIV, on PS4, PC and Mac OS) and i can't stop getting earfuls about how players using controllers (on any of the platforms) feel like they're superior to everyone else. Rocket League is cross platform with PC and every current console and complaints of cheating are not dependent on platform at all. Only Steam users can even be identified (because they have a profile picture where the other platforms dont show profile pics), and I don't know anybody whatsoever who complains about platforms other than their own or demands a no crossplay option. Cross play increases the player pool and is seen almost universally as a good thing.
Also: There is no competition in this game. There is no leaderboard or way to measure yourself against other players, so talking about competitive advantage is practically a moot point to begin with.
Second, you do not need to hack or physically modify the xbox to cheat. You can cheat via packet manipulation. This requires a PC or custom firmware on your networking devices, but is entirely doable by anyone who really wants to cheat regardless of platform.
Rare has all kinds of anti cheat measures in place that will reduce or prevent the most obvious cheating avenues. People who think playing games on a console shields them from cheating in any way are living in a fantasy.
@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.
fix'd that for ya
Just because you don't want/hate optional crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who are on platform specific servers. So there's no reason to oppose having the option.
re-fixed that for ya.
lol, good try, but nah, there are plenty of solutions to the minor issues & grievances that would make splitting the playerbase foolish. it would be much easier to fix the issues & maintain crossplay & let the few but vocal detractors move on to other games as they were wont to anyway (not to mention significantly more profitable, as there are plenty of walled garden multiplayer games on xbox for anti-crossplaythiests to flock to, but there are very few crossplay enabled games, and really, the only contemporary of SoT is Minecraft: Bedrock Edition (of which i'm aware))
@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
lol, good try, but nah, there are plenty of solutions to the minor issues & grievances that would make splitting the playerbase foolish. it would be much easier to fix the issues & maintain crossplay & let the few but vocal detractors move on to other games as they were wont to anyway (not to mention significantly more profitable, as there are plenty of walled garden multiplayer games on xbox for anti-crossplaythiests to flock to, but there are very few crossplay enabled games, and really, the only contemporary of SoT is Minecraft: Bedrock Edition (of which i'm aware))
If it is just a few vocal detractors, how is the playerbase split?
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.
fix'd that for ya
Just because you don't want/hate optional crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who are on platform specific servers. So there's no reason to oppose having the option.
re-fixed that for ya.
Ther'es no reason to support having the option because 1) Having the option would require development time for implementation that could be better spent on other things and 2) There is literally no way to tell which platform the other players in your game are playing on short of all of the players being your friends and you know what platform they're on. Since you can't identify who is from what platform by any measureable means, there is no reason to isolate yourself from players by platform.
And dont try to say something like "this guy kicked my a*s he must be a PC player" because that's not a measurable metric that can be quantified as a number or piece of data- it's just anecdotal evidence that has no value........
Further, this whole discussion is moot because Rare has made their stance on features which divide the playerbase clear- They won't do it.
it's not yet,(thank cthulhu) because RARE is still maintaining "No Asterisk Crossplay"
if crossplay became an option, it would split the playerbase.
the playerbase suffers less attrition if the people who hate crossplay just stop playing than if we allow the playerbase to self-segregate.
(especially if RARE keeps working to minimize system differences & maximize parity since SoT will never be ranked competitive esport MLG)
@tahngarthor said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@oneeeyedwilly said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
@hoboprof said in The Real Crossplay Solution?:
Just because you don'twant/hate crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who don't like it, can leave without having to add private servers or the like. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who leave.
fix'd that for ya
Just because you don't want/hate optional crossplay, doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to play that way. Those who do like crossplay will likely not ever even notice the lack of the people who are on platform specific servers. So there's no reason to oppose having the option.
re-fixed that for ya.Ther'es no reason to support having the option because 1) Having the option would require development time for implementation that could be better spent on other things and 2) There is literally no way to tell which platform the other players in your game are playing on short of all of the players being your friends and you know what platform they're on. Since you can't identify who is from what platform by any measureable means, there is no reason to isolate yourself from players by platform.
And dont try to say something like "this guy kicked my a*s he must be a PC player" because that's not a measurable metric that can be quantified as a number or piece of data- it's just anecdotal evidence that has no value........
Further, this whole discussion is moot because Rare has made their stance on features which divide the playerbase clear- They won't do it.
Post the link where Rare "made their stance on features which divide the playerbase clear- They won't do it."
Regarding if we can tell if people are xbox or PC; I absolutely can tell. I'm better than 90% on it too. Whenever I question someone being on PC, I pull up their gamercard. I see they have approximately 300 gamerscore and the last opened program "xbox app". That is a PC player. You know darn well this is the case, but by all means make claims that this isn't necessarily true. Finally, you have no idea how much of a development endeavor it would be implement an option for platform specific play. Are yon on their dev team? Do you have their 3 year plan and RAD cycle?
