@gtothefo said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@cotu42 said in [Mega Thread] PvP and PvE Playstyle Discussion:
@gtothefo
You indicated you think it is a bad idea and yet here pages later you are still arguing in favor of it, with no foundations for your arguments. Just wishful thinking, assumptions and your beliefs. Why do you want the developers to implement something bad... I really don't understand it and believe you are not being genuine at all.
No, I'm not arguing in favour of it. Where am I doing that?
Yet you argue for a server that will increase the PVP in the world by offering a safe place for the people doing PVE. Even if you believe a smaller percentage does what we claim they will do in masses and that the percentage of players that only PVE will leave the world... it will by definition increase the combat.
Again, I'm not in favour of that server, I'm in favour of solutions that increase the quality of the existing interactions and combats in the game.
The division might not be 50/50, but adding PvE servers will not push it more to that... it will actually push the balance towards more PVP not less. Logically speaking that means you are creating the opposite effect than what you are claiming you want in the game and towards the split and menu choice we argue will be the effect.
Again, I'm not sure that follows, but since you can't seem to separate the idea of my having a discussion about your inaccuracies in relation to the failings of a PvE server and my supporting a PvE server, its in both of our best interests that I not engage with that. Let's just agree not to add a full PvE server and leave it at that.
You ask how you arguments are in support of PVE servers and you state the bolded text above. My inaccuracies? While I actually bring forth logical, foundations for my standpoint... your argument literally starts with and I quote:
I sort of assume that most people are basically like me
I even give you the ability to not see it as far reaching as I claim, yet you don't believe that people won't go and use the PVE servers for their PVE needs and go to the shared world to hunt? That makes literally zero logical sense. The assumption that most people are like yourself is a bad assumption. My assumption is actually that most people aren't like me, that they are their own person and extremely varied.
You claim you want to improve the quality of the interactions upon the waves... yet believe that a PVE server wouldn't be abused, create a cycle of causing more interactions to be about murdering, hunting and stealing?
The argument of that players will pick and choose at the menu screen has more merit, by the simple fact that the majority of people will sell their loot first before heading into combat themselves, the majority of people take the easiest and quickest route if offered to them. Those that attack with their loot on board is the minority. If the choice is made like that in the PVP world, why even risk it if you can guarantee it at the menu screen?
You seem endlessly locked on this idea that the only thing that people are even capable of caring about in the game is loot and advancement. It is more fun to pick up loot from an island and run it back to an Outpost while looking over your shoulder. Fun is the point of the game, not Loot. Risk is excitement, and that's why people would take the option to run their loot back in a game with opponents than one without. Plenty of veteran players have commented on here that the PvE side of the game lacks challenge and people actively loot stack to increase the tension of sailing about with loot onboard. If people always take the easiest way out at all times, why would people ever loot stack? I loot stack sometimes with an emissary flag aboard and I can't stand the majority of PvP, because the risk of it is exciting and fun. You say you don't fish in the game which I really don't understand because fishing seems built for what you declare to be your preferred play style, low risk, low effort, high loot reward.
Fun is the point yes, risk and excitement is fun for some yes. Yet many do not like losing their loot in many situations. Never did I say that everyone would use the PVE mode exclusively. Yet by offering it, the balance on the seas is shifting to a more PVP style gameplay. You complain about the division of friendly/foe interactions being more tilted to the foe end, yet want to remove more of the friendly pirate crews.
Why do people stack loot? Because they find it exciting and great to have a full big haul of loot, it looks pretty after all. Some do it because they are confident in their ability to defend, but there are many that will do it for hours and have it stolen to come to these forums to complain and request a PVE server to do it on. Are these people truly out for fun, excitement and the thrill of looking over their shoulder the PvEvP experience? Will these people never PVP, my bet is they do... but don't want to when they are the ones stacking loot? Will these people not join PVE servers do the loot stacking and only join the shared world for their PVP needs? Will this not create an even larger imbalance between friendly and foe interactions? How does this benefit the quality of these interactions?
The big thing about offering options to people is that people will use them. That is the most logical and reasonable course of action. If you give them the freedom to choose at will at any given moment, why wouldn't they use it?
I am a veteran player that complains consistently about the PVE easy end and if they implement a PVE mode I hope that it would offer a proper PVE challenge to also appeal to me. If the game is going to expand with a mode, I would like to want to use it? You know create something that compliments and expands the game for everyone?
You don't get why I don't like fishing? Because it is boring, I am a pirate. Unlike the majority of PvP pirates that people complain about that come in for the fight without risking anything, my deck tends to be loaded with all the loot I gathered till that point. It is sitting there smack right next to my harpoons or near the ladders. I might be rolling with some new scallywag that barely knows how to park the ship and chill out and do some PvE, while teaching them the ropes, keeping them safe. If my opponent or those that I come across on the seas grabs their speaking horn I am all ears... just don't board my ship, because I will have to kill you. I am not your average run of the mill pirate, I am a legend of old... Usually I follow my crew and let them captain, I will fly around the world seeking for some excitement, variety and interaction. The crews I meet, the variety of friendly and foes, the mystery of it all is what keeps me playing the game.
You know why I have such an outspoken opinion about maintaining a balance on the seas, is because I have no interest in just battling it out all the time. Battle is fun, but the gems are those where crews start talking to each other. Alliances is not my thing, once again to boring... but a truce, a deal or a good sword duel... now that is magical. I do enjoy stealing other peoples loot... I like pouncing when people leave opportunities or creating them myself, pirate you know.
I sometimes can be the hero in someone's session, the new pirates I teach tend to keep asking me to join them on their endevours... while the people I make my opponent will call me griefing, PVP sweaty nerd and worse. I truly am a PvEvP player, that has been sailing for so long that they stopped caring completely about the bits and bobs we collect. There was a time, where an Athena chest would be exciting to dig up or the skeleton fleet rippling up from the depths below upon my solo sloop... now I am left with the variety in player interaction. Shift that balance you talk about and I will lose even more interest in the game. You want better quality interactions with people, create a code that works for you. Live by it, become good at maintaining a powerful position and be willing to fight. Make it clear that fighting you might not be in their best interest and you would be surprised what one can achieve.
These people are not deserting the servers, they are using them to PvP and maybe some minor PvE, but all the heavy lifting and PvE activities will be done in safety.
So you continue to insist, and so I continue to refute, and so it continues to not matter at all, because I'm not in favour of a PvE server. You need to understand, I'm not in favour of a PvE server, I just think you're wrong about why its a bad idea. I think your reasoning can be wrong while supporting the idea that you support. From my perspective this is like you're saying "The Earth is round, and we know that due to the number of legs on a duck" and I'm taking the position that its utterly ridiculous to say that the number of limbs on a duck has anything to do with the shape of the world which is causing you to conclude that I must be a flat earther. Once again, PvE servers is a bad idea, and I am not in favour of them. However, just because someone says something I think is inaccurate while simultaneously saying that PvE servers are a bad idea, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to point out their inaccuracy.
Yet, I am the one showcasing with examples, with logical reasoning why the earth is round. Your argument is "I assume", "People say", "They are like me" "it is fun" which are all opinions without reasoning... the argument it wouldn't be that bad, is in favor of PVE servers. You haven't given literally any explanation upon why people wouldn't do as I state other than their intrinsic motivation which you frankly cannot know. I even am not giving numbers and allowing you to fill that in to a lesser degree than what I believe... and yet you still call my stand point ridiculous.
I don't see how you can state that offering a PVE mode of the adventure mode won't shift the balance of the game to more PVP. You are literally removing PVE crews from the seas and to a degree PvEvP crews doing PVE. Nothing binds you to your choice, you can pick and choose PVE or PVP. If the option is there people would use it... to believe otherwise is unrealistic.