Reapers bones need to be reworked

  • TheMidRangeGod
    Rogue
    Insider

    The idea of a pvp company in the adventure mode is amazing, but the reapers bones isn't used for pvp anymore. The fact that you can turn anything into the reapers bones makes people just use it for a faster and more efficient way of getting money. People do world events and voyages then just use reapers bones as a money dump. I think reapers bones should only reward you for pvp.

    Some ideas I have for a rework is...

    First you would need to make it so you cant turn every type of treasure into the reapers bones. Then you could raise the amount of money/rep you get for turning in flags and reapers chests/bounties. There also could be some new items added to the game like pieces of ships. depending on the size of ship you sink you would get a different ship part. The bigger the ship you sink the bigger the payout you get. You could make the emissary grade only level up when you kill someone or sink a ship. Picking up flags/ship parts/reapers chests would also raise the grade of the flag.

    I just think the reapers bones should only reward you for pvp. This would make it so if you see a reapers bones ship you know they mean business. Reapers bones ships would run less. I think this would raise the amount of player encounters even with a small amount of ships on one server.

    I would love feedback. also sorry for spelling mistakes.

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  • PuffyPony
    Sailor

    I'm fine with Reaper's Bones allowing PvE-based progression. I actually think there needs to be better ways to progress with Reaper's Bones. Personally, I think Skeleton Ships ought to qualify at very least for Emissary rank, if not overall Reaper's Bone progression as well. I'm perfectly cool with Reaper's Bones focusing heavily on ship-to-ship combat, but I don't think wholesale eliminating PvE progression for Reaper's Bones is a good idea.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    risk reward is a pve/pvp experience

    they take the risk by being marked and their reward is having a place to turn loot in for the extra bonus on all items

    The way they have it set up is more more productive and positive for the servers and it fits with their vision of a pve/pvp experience

    even disregarding the foundation of the game it still would die out. Pve/pvpers like me keep that faction alive as we pve/pvp daily for the reward. Take the people that have maxed everything out because it no longer is big risk/big reward and there won't be much activity left with it. Some of the top pvp people run reapers but a lot of exclusive pvpers don't mess with at all because it kills stealth play.

    The most activity that this game will ever get out of reapers is what exists right now.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @themidrangegod said in Reapers bones need to be reworked:

    @wolfmanbush I think reapers allows people to make money too easily. The whole idea of reapers is pvp but most reapers run away because they can do pve and make more money. I'm not the only person who is tired of run away reapers.

    as someone that runs reapers daily and doesn't run I can appreciate a good mocking of reapers that run but I'm not gonna pretend like it doesn't make perfect sense why they do.

    People either just wait for them to max out and load up before pvping or they hop servers to murk them right as they are ready to turn in.

    Reapers dies without the pve. Hardly anyone will run it and the pvpers will have less to chase at the end

    Can't force the pvp all you can do is make a a balanced risk/reward system for voluntary activity and they did that

    Chasers very rarely have loot so it's silly to act like there is any high ground here people just don't want to put in the time to chase them down and sink them but changing it would turn it from a pain in the butt sometimes to barely existing at all and that doesn't serve the environment

    Mock 'em but they have no obligation to fight people 5 minutes before they turn in when people show up with nothing to lose and many have been on the server a whopping 5-10 minutes and haven't contributed at all to the server

  • PuffyPony
    Sailor

    @themidrangegod said in Reapers bones need to be reworked:

    I'm not the only person who is tired of run away reapers.

    Why does it matter if Reapers don't want to fight you? You're not restricted to fighting Reaper ships... they're just easy to find because of the marker on the map, but honestly, that's all the more reason for them to behave skittishly, because they know someone wanting to pick a fight has their location and can roll up on them whenever. It's a high risk, high reward faction because you're broadcasting your location but can trade in whatever loot you like. Changing it to PvP-only makes it even higher risk, and likely not really any higher reward, because now not only are you constantly at risk of combat, you're obliged to actively seek it out.

    I don't see any good reason that Reapers shouldn't be able to progress by PvE as well as PvP. Like WolfManbush said, restricting Reapers to PvP only would be a pretty hefty blow to the faction's popularity, not an enhancement to it.

  • TheMidRangeGod
    Rogue
    Insider

    @puffypony The point of reapers is to hunt down emissaries. I also mentioned adding a rep and gold increase as well as new items. Sure the risk would be higher but so would the reward.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @themidrangegod said in Reapers bones need to be reworked:

    @wolfmanbush you said it yourself, you run reapers daily. my guess is its because you maxed the other reps and have no need for the other Factions. I could be wrong but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people who are maxed on all factions only use reapers to turn in because its easy money. doing that makes the other fractions seem useless.

    What significant untapped portion of the base will this bring in? It won't bring in any extra activity it will only significantly remove activity. People using reapers as a high risk high reward faction for gold keep it operating. They have no reason to use it with your change. It only removes activity and without activity there is no point for the faction to even exist

  • WarOnPants2664
    Master
    Insider

    @themidrangegod I made the case for this back when reapers and emissaries were still in development. Needless to say, it didn't happen. The disappointing state of emissaries was the main reason i quit this game and didn't come back till now.

  • PuffyPony
    Sailor

    @themidrangegod

    Clearly that's not the sole point, or it would've been an exclusively PvP-focused faction in the first place. In the Ships of Fortune update, it suggests the point of Reaper's Bones is intended to be the most freeform of the factions, and while it does mention PvP being more rewarding, nowhere does it suggest that it's the only avenue intended for players to gain rewards.

    Also, consider the substantial decrease in the ability to progress with Reaper's. It's a lot. Any increase in rewards would have to be substantial to offset the loss of PvE progression, and I really do mean substantial because you'd be at the mercy of who is running emissary, who actually is going to stick around and fight as opposed to just run away or dump loot to get you to leave them alone, etc. Especially if Reaper ships became exclusively PvP-focused, players would be more and more incentivized to give them a wide berth since there isn't the possibility but the guarantee that a Reaper ship is coming to sink them. It would discourage, rather than encourage, PvP and instead promote skittish behavior among players unless you're joining the server for the sole purpose of PvPing.

  • WarOnPants2664
    Master
    Insider

    @puffypony according to a dev that i talked to when it was first introduced, they did it this way because they want everyone to be able to progress reapers in any way they want. Meaning they want the reapers to be just another gauge to fill that just rewards a little bit more if you play the "right" way. In practice though it was more efficient to play normally than it was to progress via PvP. Idk if that has changed though.

  • CGallerine
    Commander
    Insider

    or even a simple "Decreased money for non stolen loot" or even "No emissary bonus for non stolen loot", with the exception of Reaper Chests/Bounties, would make it 90% more focused on PvP I feel.

  • Monke6851
    Seafarer

    I think the way it should work is that you can still sell everything but you can only sell it if you stole it

  • GEBR1L
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @themidrangegod I agree with some of this. Reapers has a problem because ors far superior to every other emissary at the moment. You an literally sell anything to the Reapers, so why would you go for OOS emissary where you're only limited to selling skulls for gold increase, or GH emissary where you're limited to just their items etc. You can go Reapers instead and do it all and sell it all, you can even build up your rank pretty quick with them just doing PvE stuff.

    I don't mind being able to do PvE stuff on a Reapers emissary, however this should be limited to what you can sell them, when you get to sell them everything on your ship and have a higher gold bonus for it too, why would you sell anywhere else, so I don't blame people for going as them. I think keeping the PvE element of it too would mean that it's not a requirement to attack other ships, im sure that would make some people happy as there's been plenty of discussion from people in these forums about the game not being enjoyable with the amount of rival crews now turning up to sink each other, so having it so you can still focus PvE as Reapers would help keep it balanced a bit and allow other crews to do stuff. It it was solely based around PvP and killing other ships there would be more complaints from people that all they do is go on servers and get attacked.

    I do also notice how a lot of people get in to a server and check the map first thing for any Reapers on the server and then try to avoid them. I think for someone trying to avoid them maybe the best option is to actually join them and become a Reaper crew themselves. If they do this then on some occasions they may actually get to play and do PvE stuff in peace if other players on the server can see them and are avoiding them, so it can almost become a perfect disguise in a way.

    Another way to handle this could just be if everyone else on the server can see a Reaper Reaper just head to it and destroy it, that way multiple ships may turn up at the same time and collectively get rid of the Reaper ship and then go about their normal business until another shows up.

    An option could also be if everyone on the server goes as a Reaper emissary, then it could be all out war or each other trying to destroy each other constantly, but nothing will get done or sold if there's no specific crew that wins all the time because everyone will at some point be sinking and losing their emissary rank, so when Reapers is then made in a way that prevents them from selling things because of being bombarded then maybe they may understand more how inferior the other emissaries are in the first place and that what is happening to them is what happens to other emissary crews all the time. Sure that's how the game is supposed to be played so I am sure a lot of Reaper crews won't mind it, but if they so much as happen to get bothered by it then that's just karma, and you can't have your cake and eat it too haha.

    The Reaper system could be overthrown by mass people going them in servers, or people not even intending on PvP aspect going them anyway to do PvE stuff because they present the best and most varied rewards because anything can be sold to them, then devs may see people are using the emissary for not exactly what they intended it to be, but that's fine because players find ways around things all the time and then they need to change them.

  • KommodoreYenser
    Lord
    Insider

    Couple of points that are important.

    1- Yes Reapers is the best way to get gold especially if you are doing World events. The downside? Literally every single regular player and server hopper can see just how much loot you have onboard because not only can they see your location AND heading, they can also see your grade which is proportional to your loot onboard. Risk = Reward. Not to mention the rep gain for farmed loot vs stolen which brings me to the next point.

    2- Reaper rep was reduced by 400% of it original value for regular farmed loot (except for athena and reaper items) just one week after release. Athena and Reaper items were reduced by 200%, stolen loot of all kinds were reduced by 200%. If they decide to only accept stolen loot for turn-in (has been suggested by many including myself) then I think they need to bump the rep gain back up by 200% to its original value. The downside is this incentivizes attacking any ship and not just emissary ships which is something Rare and a lot of PvE'ers don't want.

    3- Reapers of high grade (3+) at least in my experience regularly get attacked by ships with no flag up. If I get pushed up on by a ship with zero upside to sinking them, I will not bother with them and sail away. No reason to fight them. If you want Reapers to stop running, raise a flag and 99% of the time they will come to you.

  • KlutchxKay
    Legend
    Insider

    I'd like a slipstream to appear behind Reaper's Bones ships so they cannot run away. Any ship that is tailing a Reaper is automatically faster than that Reaper. There shouldn't be an option to run away while flying the Reaper flag. I also think the Emissary bonus for normal loot should go to 1.5x at max, but stolen treasure should reach the full 2.5x. I understand PvE reapers, and they can play how they like, but PvP should be encouraged and running should not be allowed.

  • KaiJoi
    Castaway
    Insider

    @themidrangegod

    The fact that you can turn anything into the reapers bones makes people just use it for a faster and more efficient way of getting money. People do world events and voyages then just use reapers bones as a money dump.

    Why is this a problem? I would MUCH rather have a ship doing PvE missions with a flag that literally shows me where they are on the map at all times, rather than a ship doing a PvE mission where I have no clue where they are and I have to search for them for 20 minutes. If they're going to do PvE voyages anyways, encourage them to put on a flag that I can use to locate them instantly.

    I just think the reapers bones should only reward you for pvp. This would make it so if you see a reapers bones ship you know they mean business.

    If you want to find a company that "means business" get triumphant seadog cosmetics for your ship. People who have those cosmetics usually mean business. Another thing too, if a PvE reapers emissary ship wants to get grade 5, they have to spend MORE time on the server gathering loot than a PvP reaper's emissary, which can just hop onto a server and get reaper's 5 in 20 minutes.

    I don't really see it as a problem keeping it the way it is because:

    (1) You can see EXACTLY where they are on the map at all times.

    (2) If they want to get the gold / reputation increase they can only sell at one outpost (reaper's hideout) meaning that you could camp the island / cut them off to it.

    (3) It takes longer for a PvE ship to get grade 5 reaper's emissary than a PvP ship because they purposefully decreased the amount of emissary reputation you get when you don't steal a piece of loot. Meaning that they have to spend much longer on a server, meaning that they can get attacked more often.

    (4) It's a big risk/reward thing. Yes you could get tons of money doing world events by raising the reaper's emissary, but you have a TON of disadvantages too.

    I think this would raise the amount of player encounters even with a small amount of ships on one server.

    I don't see this as the case. People who run when they are a Reaper's emissary are probably PvErs, so they aren't going to just be like, Oh, reaper's emissary no longer allows for me to do world events to make money? Better start fighting other ships! They're going to just go back and do normal emissaries that can't be tracked at all times on the map.

    Now your goal in making this change is to turn the Reaper's Bones into a company where if you are level 75 you have clearly become this expert PvPer and are not to be messed with. You didn't get here through PvE, you got here because you are a great tuccer / stealer and are able to make your way through a fight well. The problem with this is that the Reaper's Bones has been released since early 2020, meaning that it has been more than 1 1/2 years for people to get level 75 in that company, meaning that while this change would stop people who are NOT lvl 50 from progressing very quickly, there are still TONS of people who are 50-75/ So this change still wouldn't mean that a reaper's bones ship and cosmetics mean anything. People would just start flexing reaper's bones even more because of the fact that they got lvl 75 before the change.

  • IllBushido305
    Legend
    Insider

    They already drastically decreased reputation for things other than flags. Why do you care about how much gold gets stolen?

  • SoloBeard7821
    Ship Mate

    @alphawolf123905What if you fight for an hour to steal someone's FOTD, but then you can't sell your technically stolen treasure to the Reapers because you unlocked the vault yourself, despite having stolen the key? What if someone has just finished a skull fort and has unlocked the vault, but they didn't touch the stronghold items, meaning you can't get the value from the stronghold items, some of the most valuable items in the game? What if you steal 3 gold vault keys but you have to do the vaults yourself? It's technically stolen, why shouldn't you be able to turn it in to the reapers just because you touched it first? Having the Reapers only accept stolen loot is a stupid idea, and if the devs wanted it to be that way, it would've been that way when Reapers were introduced.

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