Buying ship supplies

  • AngryCoconut16

    Update: This idea has been changed to a third revision based on feed back from the participants of this thread.

    Hey,

    I think it would be a fun idea to be able to buy commodities for your ship, and by that I mean cannonballs, planks, bananas. I understand that the current commodities are based around the idea of having to spend time to collect them, thus it is important someone can't go to an outpost and just instantly fully stock their ship, and permanently have a fully stocked ship if they are rich.

    Having said that, I think the option to buy a little bit of stock would be a nice addition to the game, the reasons for which will be stated below. The buying options I am suggesting are as follows:

    Transport crates
    Cannonball crate (Capacity: 20)
    Plank crate (Capacity: 10)
    Banana crate (Capacity: 10)
    Each of these would be purchasable for 5,000 gold. How many times have you gone to explore on an island? Found a few barrels, and gone to loot, then got a full inventory.. but there is still stuff inside the barrels... these crates could be carried and have a larger capacity. When purchased they stay on your ship permanently (e.g. after logging out and in). The trade off is, it's another item which needs carrying. But it would allow for better organisation for galleons and larger crews. Sloops may well find their application useful too. Perhaps one member of a galleon for instance can be in charge of supplies. I don't think these could be abused as you would actually have to be parked at an island, because mermaid teleportation doesn't allow you to carry items. Plus, this wouldn't give a ridiculous amount of power to players who don't have it, but it is yet another use for gold which could add to the game. I chose the quantities because they are double what can be carried, and I don't want them being used primarily for storage space, but for transport.

    A general stock-up
    10 bananas
    20 Cannonballs
    10 planks
    Note: these values were chosen as they are 2x the amount of supplies players can carry in their inventories.

    Banana stock:
    35 bananas

    Cannon ball stock:
    40 Cannonballs

    Plank stock:
    40 planks

    [Note: these values were plucked out of thin air and may need altering slightly]

    All of these would cost in the region of 500-1000 gold. They would be purchasable by any member of a crew, but only once per hour per crew member. Thus a pirate can choose from one of these 4 options, and choose to pay 400-500 for the stock. On paying this all 4 options are locked for an hour, for that player, and that is attached to their account (so you can't start a new crew journey, or relog to 'reset' it).

    The reason for this is: I don't want to break the game, it shouldn't be really easy to fully stock a ship, I just think that buying stock could add another element of consideration into the game.

    Here is how I think this would benefit the game:

    1) Immersion
    I have always found it quite bizarre how all of your ship resources are literally randomly found on islands... to be quite honest it takes some of the immersion away for myself... 'we need cannon balls, oh look there is some in this barrel... how... convenient!' Why would there be cannon balls and planks on every single island you happen to go to, in very convenient barrels.. I understand that this mechanic can't be removed completely - as people have made me aware in posts below, it is there for a reason and works fairly well. I just think having another level of authority over your own ship will add another element of immersion whereby you can actively spend money to gain resources for your ship, I'd honestly find this quite fun, having this extra level of planning.

    2) Opportunity
    I think it adds another option for players who spot an opportunity they want to seize... if for instance the kraken spawns and players really want to fight it (especially if and when the kraken gets additional unique rewards which I think it should..), players will be able to look at it and think 'oh lets help that galleon out! Wait we could use a few more cannonballs, lets swing by this outpost, buy some more, and then kill this monster!', likewise if you are starting out on a voyage, and then notice a fort become active, you aren't quite so forced to island-run to get stock, and have an option to at least get SOME stock for your adventures. The hour-timer should stop players from abusing it and getting a ridiculous amount of stock, such that all ships would turn up to a fort very well stocked.

    To put it another way yes if you know you need stock you could obviously sail to another outpost, or another island, but that takes time. This system would provide players with an additional option if they need stock but don't want to spend the time sailing around to get it, or don't have the time (in the case of a spontaneous kraken spawn for instance). If players are happy with the current system, that's fine, but this is just about adding another interesting option for players to consider. :)

    3) New NPC roles?
    I'd also really like to see an iron monger NPC, I feel like it's almost a 'must have' in a pirate game.... iron monger can sell the cannon balls. I think a more dedicated shipwright shop would rock too. I know we have someone you can buy ship colours from, but someone who has a bit more functionality around fixing a ship might be interesting? And the planks can be purchased from this person.

    A lot of people seem to like the following suggestion: the ship wright can have two added functionalities, one to change the ship you are using in a session so you don't have to relog (perhaps you are 3 people and one leaves, an easy way to convert from galleon to sloop), and secondly to remove holes which have been patched from your vessel, so it appears good as new without planks all over the wall.

    Also, when new cannon balls are added, perhaps players can purchase some of these from the iron monger too? (This shouldn't be unbalanced as all cannon balls should be balanced right?... and if it is OP it should be very easy to add a limit to the number people can find/purchase..)

    4) Empty outposts
    An interesting point was mentioned about spawning at an outpost which has recently been visited and thus no supplies being available. Does anyone know what the respawn timer is on supplies (with a source) or I suppose we have no idea? Buying a low level of stock would help to solve this problem, no supplies at an outpost? Ok well they can be purchased. Perhaps you can buy stock but only up to a certain level of stock, after that you can still gain new stock, but it needs to be found. What would the point of buying stock be? Well I'm sure not everyone would but the option is there if people want it, to save time, especially if they know they'll need it for the voyage they have planned.

    5) More interesting PvP?
    This one is a bit more subjective I suppose, but I know that some people like the way supplies currently work because it adds another element of strategy. To be honest I beg to differ, if someone runs out of supplies that isn't really strategy, it's just 'oh they ran out so now they're fleeing', most of the clever strategy and interesting parts of a fight are in the heat of battle, thus if players do come to PvP fights better stocked, I can only think of that as an advantage personally.

    6) More places to spend gold!
    Gold inflation is a big problem for some players at the moment. New cosmetics will help, but I think it will only go so far to solving the problem. When people are happy with their cosmetics, they won't necessarily want to buy all other varieties of cosmetics just for the sake of it, for instance. I think a few more permanent ways to spend gold would be a great addition to the game, and this is one such possibility.

    Reasons for concern

    I will post any concerns that people have here, to see if it can be worked around..

    • What if you stocked your ship really well and it got sunk really quickly...
      If you are going to do a voyage you won't be getting too much stock at all, so that shouldn't be an issue. You can still find commodities and supplies in barrels, that won't change. And if players are stocking their ship well they are probably preparing for something big, PvP players or going to raid a fort, or attack a boss (for instance new AI threats), and as such players will be aware of the risks and potential rewards of doing so and can decide for themselves if it's worth it. In addition they ought to have more crew members so I think it's unlikely they will be sunk very quickly.

    • So galleons can get far more stock than sloops as they have more people to buy stock?
      Yes, but that is true anyway. Galleons have more storage space and more players so of course they can get stock faster, and more of it. Plus, they have a larger ship, more players, and more cannons, so it makes sense that they can but more resources. Sloops on the other hand have two cannons so the cannon balls they purchase will last longer, for example.

    As for solo players, well solo is supposed to be more hard mode anyway, plus I don't imagine that solo players are the ones who would make most use of this...

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  • Nebenkuh

    The problem with this idea is that it would make supplies completely meaningless, unless it was extremely expensive to buy them. Many players are currently sitting on hundreds of thousands, or even millions of gold.

    People would just stock up their ships to the max, and never worry about supplies again. At that point, you might as well give every ship an infinite amount of supplies. It would be an issue especially in PvP, for example at forts, like you said. We've been in fort raids where we ended up sinking the entire server. Imagine everyone of those ships came back with max supplies..

    The only way I could get on board of this is if you could buy just a few supplies. Like 20 canonballs, 10 bananas, 10 planks and that's it. It would be a way to quickly get some stock, but not so much that it would break the game.
    Also, there's already not so much to do in the game or on ships, especially during long trips. I'm usually at the helm, and when they're not adjusting sails, the rest of my crew is just goofing around most of the time, except when they cannon themselves to nearby islands or swim to supplies in the water to stock up. Take that away, and they will have even less to do.. gathering supplies at least gets them to move their lazy behinds occasionally.

    Oh, and there is a shipwright btw. Would be cool if you could switch ships there, or have yours fully repaired tho. :)

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @nebenkuh

    Not even being able to buy 10% of the supplies suggested in the op would be healthy for the game, the resource management part of this game is a clever mechanic that pushes players to explore islands and learn their layouts, it is decently balanced in a way that allows for quick stocking of a galleon within 20 minutes of playtime, it isn't fast enough that allows players to quickly restock after a loss and harass players in live world events, but isn't too slow to the point that it becomes a chore. It's a necessary part of the game, and could be used to implement more rare materials to much greater effect, as it would push exploration even further, as you are rewarded for taking your time to learn where the supply barrels are in each island.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @nebenkuh There are all very good points! And also if you are super rich at this point in time you will never have a low stocked ship again...

    As for forts, I personally think it's kinda lame that ships can respawn and then head straight back anyway.... I wish when you were defeated you got moved to a new server or couldn't get within a certain distance of the fort.... it just seems cheap to respawn, head back, fight, rinse and repeat :P Then again I haven't done many forts so I can't comment and this is a different subject entirely.

    Perhaps just have the option to buy a little bit of stock then? I still really like the idea of a couple of new NPCs you can buy a few things from FOR your ship, in the way of supplies... I think it would be cool if there was some way to implement that if others thought it was an idea worth considering?

    You are right with the barrel checking too, especially at this point in the game where there is sometimes a lack of things to do. Checking barrels for supplies is definitely something to keep people busy.

    The shipwright - the one who sells ship colours? I guess. But yea these functionalities should be considered as additions to that NPC.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @urihamrayne Having thought about it.. the two pirate games I played in the past were primarily PvE! So now I think about it, as PvP can be such a big part of this game, that plays a far bigger factor.

    Perhaps this idea is simply not viable then, I still find it weird that cannon balls and wood can be conveniently found in barrels but I guess it makes sense from a balancing perspective, you make a good point.

  • RedEyeSith
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @nebenkuh said in Buying ship supplies:

    The problem with this idea is that it would make supplies completely meaningless, unless it was extremely expensive to buy them. Many players are currently sitting on hundreds of thousands, or even millions of gold.

    People would just stock up their ships to the max, and never worry about supplies again. At that point, you might as well give every ship an infinite amount of supplies. It would be an issue especially in PvP, for example at forts, like you said. We've been in fort raids where we ended up sinking the entire server. Imagine everyone of those ships came back with max supplies..

    The only way I could get on board of this is if you could buy just a few supplies. Like 20 canonballs, 10 bananas, 10 planks and that's it. It would be a way to quickly get some stock, but not so much that it would break the game.
    Also, there's already not so much to do in the game or on ships, especially during long trips. I'm usually at the helm, and when they're not adjusting sails, the rest of my crew is just goofing around most of the time, except when they cannon themselves to nearby islands or swim to supplies in the water to stock up. Take that away, and they will have even less to do.. gathering supplies at least gets them to move their lazy behinds occasionally.

    Oh, and there is a shipwright btw. Would be cool if you could switch ships there, or have yours fully repaired tho. :)

    I'm generally with you on this, I don't think it is the best idea to be able to purchase supplies directly as it would be an absolute nightmare to balance in any meaningful way. I wouldn't be opposed to maybe having the Crates made available for purchase (in the same way I wouldn't be directly opposed to Cages being purchased), but those would need to be empties for it to be even remotely viable. They already exist in game and basically just represent extra storage potential (or the ability to make a little money off the basic supplies through bulk sale) so you're just paying out for that potential as opposed to leaving it up to the chance of getting that as part of a Merchant Voyage or happening upon them. Also gives something else to use gold on for when we are satisfied with our cosmetic look.

    I would love to see an option to repair a ship, so long as it is coupled with the ability to remove planks from damaged ships as a mechanic to give some incentive to do it. This should also probably be coupled with giving half normal supplies on a ship respawn in a session - your first spawn is full supplies like we have now, then 50% amounts of all every respawn without leaving the game and coming back in fresh. This gives further incentive making use of the "Ship Repair" mechanic as opposed to just using "Scuttle Ship" to get a fresh boat again. In this way defeat is a bigger thing (something many have asked for) without making it too crippling (half supplies and the spawn distance is sufficient enough to not need to ever consider server bumping people), makes your ship have some sense of value to it, and gives us a dump for gold outside of cosmetics.

  • I Am Lost 77

    @angrycoconut16 I have disagreed with this before because of reasons already suggested. The only way it would work is if it was like a limited stock on an outpost to buy. The problem is the supply’s in the barrels already do this job very well and there really wouldn’t be a reason not to pay to restock.

  • PumpkinKangaroo

    Hello and I'm glad you made this thread! If implemented or not I think it's good to hear opinions.

    For my part I do like the idea of being able to purchase supplies. There have been several times when entering we find no supplies left in the outpost and that is frustrating! These times it's usually busy so the supplies "laying around" are fairly hard to find as well.

    I think the prices that Angry posted could go up though. Also, after reading the other remarks, perhaps you could only buy a partial stock so that no one starts the game too far ahead of a new player who hasn't earned enough gold to buy their supplies yet.

    I LOVE the idea of ship repairs! I always get sad when I see my poor ship all beat up.

    I look forward to reading more input!

  • Nauseous Gnome9

    @angrycoconut16 I dont agree with the prices but i do think that this needs to be in the game.

  • Gloog
    Master
    Founder

    Those prices are riducously low. Noone should buy supplies. It busts the game cycle.

    We are more prepared than other crews because, well, we prepared. It's part of the point.

    Buyable small empty crates instead.

    Edited for clarity

  • PumpkinKangaroo

    @gloog said in Buying ship supplies:

    Those prices are riducously low. Noone should buy supplies. It busts the game cycle.

    Buyable small crates instead.

    Wouldn't buy able small crates be buying supplies? Or do you mean empty crates?

    I would be fine with small crates of supplies and really wouldn't mind empty ones we could take to shore to fill/use.

  • Ashe Morgan78
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 completely with you here. As a casual player I’d rather get into the action than spend 10 minutes searching barrels and returning to the ship over and over. How monotonous.

  • Gloog
    Master
    Founder

    @ashe-morgan78 a casual player only needs ten minutes for their play session. The less you play the less you need to spend supplying. Don't over stock yourself.

    Supplying adds some strategy and depth. Despite it being lame it allows other situations to become more satisfying.

  • AngryCoconut16

    So a lot of people seem to disagree with the idea and I can totally understand the reasoning, and I agree with it really... although as @PumpkinKangaroo mentioned if an outpost has been recently ransacked, then you may be left with a more difficult time than others for finding stock which isn't really fair, so perhaps buying a small level of stock can help to fix this problem? Anyone have any clue what the respawn timer is on these supplies?

    I still like the idea of NPCs having more functionality when it comes to your ship.

    People seem to like the idea of the ship wright also being able to repair your ship to brand new condition, and being able to change ship at the ship wright.

    Any more ideas, perhaps for an iron-monger type NPC? Or is there no reason to have that sort of NPC? Interested to hear your thoughts.

    Btw I'm updating the OP as ideas develop to try to keep it relevant :)

  • AngryCoconut16

    @gloog When you say crates, are you talking about more storage space on ships? Or animal crates?

  • Gloog
    Master
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 no, similar to the empty banana, cannon, and plank crates that you can find in the world already, but smaller. Make a purchasable version that's expensive.

    Edit: as said above, these crates are empty and they serve the purpose of less trips to the ship for supplies with the tradeoff of carrying an object.

  • Gerinako86
    Marauder
    Founder

    I'd pay for the ship to be stocked with barrells off the island to save me running around :)

  • AngryCoconut16

    @gerinako86 As would I, sometimes it's just easier so I think it would be great to make it an option, even if it is pricier than the prices I set. What sort of prices do you think would be sensible?

  • AngryCoconut16

    @gloog And these would already be fully stocked? Or empty and serve as extra storage space?

  • UrihamRayne
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    To clarify one more thing, I am not against or in support of purchasable empty crates of supplies. I don't have enough game knowledge and data to support the idea or criticize it, I have very vague ideas of what could happen if such systems were implemented.

    Though I wish supplies had a more forgiving refresh cooldown in islands, they feel like they take around 4 ingame days to respawn, but I didn't time it, which is unfortunate, I really wanted to have this data.

  • Medynaunt
    Marauder

    The only problem with this is it would encourage skull fort hopping, because they could hop, find fort, and be fully stocked. The other problem is if two ships are in a chase, both ships could drive by the outpost and fully stock the ship.

    Agree with repairing ship part, don't care about change ship mechanic, would never apply to a solo slooper like me.

  • PumpkinKangaroo

    @drewbob7 said in Buying ship supplies:

    The only problem with this is it would encourage skull fort hopping, because they could hop, find fort, and be fully stocked. The other problem is if two ships are in a chase, both ships could drive by the outpost and fully stock the ship.

    Agree with repairing ship part, don't care about change ship mechanic, would never apply to a solo slooper like me.

    You bring up a very good point. I think that your ship should have to be in proximity of the merchants to purchase supplies! That would have to be a must I think. No dropping off a crew member to purchase the supplies.

    Very good catch @DrewBob7 !

  • Medynaunt
    Marauder

    @pumpkinkangaroo I remember mentioning somewhere that the ship must be in a certain radius of the island, and that it should take some time, but if you get attacked, it stops. So it fills over time, but if interrupted by attacking etc., it stops.

  • WoodAndWhiskey
    Master
    Insider

    My buddy and I just discussed something similar but in a different fashion. We thought it would be cool to be able to purchase additional cannonball/banana/plank crates from the merchant(same ones that exist now). You would have to purchase every time you have a new ship and stock the crate(s) yourself. This would allow for more resources on your boat as well as having the crate/inventory available if you recieve a message in a bottle. I don't know if one would ever need that many resources but it'd be a nice addition if you knew you were playing the game for several hours.

  • Ashe Morgan78
    Founder

    @gloog said in Buying ship supplies:

    @ashe-morgan78 a casual player only needs ten minutes for their play session. The less you play the less you need to spend supplying. Don't over stock yourself.

    Supplying adds some strategy and depth. Despite it being lame it allows other situations to become more satisfying.

    Perhaps the way YOU play. Keep in mind every player is not like you. We all have different priorities and this is something forum people don’t seem to get.

  • Gloog
    Master
    Founder

    @ashe-morgan78 said in Buying ship supplies:

    @gloog said in Buying ship supplies:

    @ashe-morgan78 a casual player only needs ten minutes for their play session. The less you play the less you need to spend supplying. Don't over stock yourself.

    Supplying adds some strategy and depth. Despite it being lame it allows other situations to become more satisfying.

    Perhaps the way YOU play. Keep in mind every player is not like you. We all have different priorities and this is something forum people don’t seem to get.

    I stated the intent of the design; to give players more choices to make and to give more cost benefit analysis within the gameplay.

    I don't care if you understock or overstock your ship.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @haveyoumetcory Possibly. My main concern is like you say, why would anyone ever need it, there is a large cap to the level of stock you can have now I think?...

  • AngryCoconut16

    @drewbob7 said in Buying ship supplies:

    The only problem with this is it would encourage skull fort hopping, because they could hop, find fort, and be fully stocked. The other problem is if two ships are in a chase, both ships could drive by the outpost and fully stock the ship.

    Agree with repairing ship part, don't care about change ship mechanic, would never apply to a solo slooper like me.

    Very good point... you can imagine one person jumping off the ship and purchasing full stock again then doing a 180 to engage or some other silly tactics like that... yea I agree. I think this idea is a no go with regard to fully stocking a ship. I am wondering whether smaller stock-related purchases could be made though, or other roles for such NPCs.

  • PumpkinKangaroo

    @angrycoconut16 I agree. I still like the idea, but I was a bit gungho and now that others have voiced concerns and ideas I do think some alterations are needed.

    I am thinking now that at port only (meaning you are within a ships length from shore) can you purchase a small amount of supplies. The amount I'm still unsure of but how about the same as each crew member can carry. So the same as if all of your crew ran around searching barrels at port twice. And the price should be hefty. I don't have any numbers in mind but it shouldn't be as easy as turning in a castaway's chest to stock up.

    I do like the idea of crates as well. Again though, I think they should be pricey. My only real issue with the empty ones is that finding supplies out in the wild could be a little harder and only because busy servers can lead to that as is.

    I also think the crates should be different from the merchant voyages so they can't be used to fulfill them. Why? I'm honestly not entirely sure but it just doesn't feel right to me.

    Also, it's fun to discuss these ideas and perhaps Rare may like them and add them. I am not doing this to demand changes, only to discuss different aspects of the game and maybe things I would like to see down the road. I have really enjoyed the responses and it does help how I think about it to hear other points of view!

  • Trickrrrtreat
    Insider

    Being able to buy supplies would be a huge mistake. Everyone would be loaded to the gills all the time.

  • AA Yeti
    Master
    Founder

    I love the idea but the cost would have to go way up. 50 cannon balls pays like 400ish gold so for them to make a "reasonable" profit they would have to charge 800, then do the same for planks and bananas. I wouldn't made dropping 2k to have an extra 50 of everything on the ship, it's sea of thieves not Sea of item gathering simulator after all.

  • Robstructive
    Marauder
    Insider

    @angrycoconut16 pirates don't pay for supplies

  • AA Yeti
    Master
    Founder

    @trickrtreat01 I would rather go up against a crew that's ready for a fight then just steam roll them. If giving them extra supplies makes it more interesting I'm all for it.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @pumpkinkangaroo That's why I have made several threads on different topics :) Sometimes an idea goes around in my head and it isn't till I make a thread, that someone instantly sees it from a different perspective and I'm like.. oh yea... I never thought of that.

    I agree. Do you think it will be worthwhile though? I mean are people actually going to use the function?.. Perhaps players like you suggested, can purchase X amount of supplies, an amount which is similar to what you'd find in the outpost anyway. This can be on a timer of 1 hour or something. So you can't buy that amount of supplies again for an hour, the shop is 'out of stock'. Each member of the crew can but this amount though?.. (I think that would be fair, yes galleons would get more stock than sloops, but they have more cannons and are a bigger ship so it's easier to hit them.. so the cannon balls/planks are in proportion to that?)

    I like the idea of crate purchasing but to be 100% honest I don't know if I see the point.. I've never been in a position where I've fully filled all of the storage space on the ship. Although if this is a thing, then by all means I suppose the idea of buying barrels or crates, I just don't want it to be redundant but for a purpose :)

  • AngryCoconut16

    @aa-yeti I think the problem isn't the fact that they can get extra supplies quickly (which you are right, could make PvP more interesting!) it's the frequency of it..... for instance what is to stop someone circling an outpost or looping around two outposts, spamming cannon shots and restock restock restock restock... rich pirates..

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