Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@pearlay said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

You cant get Rep till you hand in the item to the person giving you the gold and Rep ! its Not compete by Digging it up ! its Compete by Turning it in, BUT ... I would Like the Treasures to Lock to your Crew for turn in Once you reach the Outpost, I have had 2 Instances where I am solo and there was No Ships at Outpost and I checked, Landed at dock, grabbed my Gaged chicken, turned One in and as I was climbing back onto my ship I see a Jerk jump off with my 2nd Chicken and turn it in before I could Catch him, and Screw my Quest because Now I am missing one of the 3 I needed. 8( and for a Timed quest like Merchants this can be a Fail on the Quest.

What? L**O! "Compete to turn in" But you want your treasure locked to your crew? Which is it, you can't have it both ways dude! Wow.

@veristepes Yeah, that is another discussion. Pretty bummed at level 23 in GH, get a map with 4 "X"s on it. Dig up one castaway, and 3 seafarers. Kind of ridiculous. Then a new chapter opens, riddle map. Solve the 3 line riddle, fight off some skeletons...dig up a castaway. I have the worst luck.

@veristepes Well, splitting the reward system (Reputation AKA Experience Points and Gold) would definitely speed the grind up. For example, Gold rewards at this point for a castaway are so minuscule I would likely leave them behind on the beach for someone else. But gaining the reputation (also tiny) at voyage complete would make it worth the trouble!

@daveyjay1984

On that rationale, if you don't finish the contract for any reason your reputation should decrease with that said faction? I mean like you said, you're building a reputation with them. As soon as your contract is canceled without delivering on your side they would lose trust in you.

That wouldn't be fun for the gamer, and shouldn't ever go in the game. Understanding the OP's position here is important. I honestly think you should be getting reputation for finding objectives, exploring the world, and a bonus for actually completing the voyage. Not only would that help the rep grind, but like the OP says if you lose that the gamer doesn't lose those hours spent in-game if they happened to disconnect or get sunk.

Additionally, this could stop the cancelation voyage farming, incentivize players to complete the voyage over just doing the one map that rewards the most.

@veristepes

100% agree with you, I don't believe people should be losing rep at all, I was just replying with the same rationale that Daveyjay was coming from.

They certainly need to fix the percentage rate on the chests. At higher ranks, you shouldn't ever see a castaway chest by digging it up. That is just frustrating.

As for voyages not being fun, I see your point and are not arguing with that at all. it is up to the developers to make voyages more interesting. But the way people are completing voyages and even doing forts now is not what the devs intended and should be adjusted based on what the community is doing now.

@veristepes I think the problem here is what got the discussion started. Voyage Complete is when the "Voyage Complete" borders splash up on the screen. That is when the XP (Rep) should be awarded. A bonus for turn in? Sure why not. But the XP should be banked upon completing the tasks. Look at like this... The world's most unlucky Pirate. He goes out everyday, solves riddles, beats skellie bosses, collects chests, and skulls...but never makes it back to turn in. Could be PvP, could be a storm, the Kraken, or the worst enemy of all, a disconnect. The reason doesn't matter. The World's Unluckiest Pirate loses all of his gold, all of his XP (reputation) and all of the time he invested. Not fun at all. Granted, I doubt this scenario happens to anyone, but a percentage of this scenario happens enough to warrant the splitting of when awards apply to the character.

@spyderhat That is a pretty vague statement, care to elaborate?

I'm back even though I said I wasn't. Lots of points being made here but I can see that there are a few people who feel that this idea is appropriate. I can't say I agree but here are my thoughts from what I've read and what I would want to see to ensure people don't just get pirate legend without ever handing in a chest.
Give a small amount of rep/xp for finding things and achieving things, not just handing them in, this rewards your ability to use a map and making the effort to go and do something constructive. This could be rewarded at the end of each chapter of the voyage maybe. After you finish your last map/riddle, you can start a new voyage.
Emphasis for me is on the small, not close to full. What percentage would probably fall to Rare. Then you would get the rest once you hand it in. If there were rewards this way.
I still like the idea that if you hand all of the chests related to one voyage in, you get a bonus rep, maybe even a little more gold for actually achieving what you said you would, like a completion bonus. This would be the point at which it says you completed the voyage because you actually have.

Edit: @Silverbaine1 I would never suggest taking peoples rep that they have earned in a game, that's just an inflammatory remark. Maybe I'm just an old soul who feels that being rewarded for not doing the job you said you would is not a good idea.
Maybe it's also the terminology of reputation. I agree with XP, not reputation, but XP isn't a thing and with game design wouldn't get you anything.

@touchdown1504 What I think @spyderhat is trying to get at is that the game isn't about the grind to get to Pirate legend. It's about playing and enjoying the world provided, making stories, having fun. The voyages are there to make us move around the map and provide some small reward for doing that. The voyages are intended to showcase the beautiful world that they created for us. They realised however, that people would expect some kind of mission system.
I think if they had just left it as message in a bottles, diaries, maybe some other ideas and you get gold and rep for handing in your spoils and these weren't purchased voyages, this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

@DaveyJay1984 and @spyderhat I don't disagree for the most part. I believe many of us have fun in this game simply sailing and exploring (my favorite part of the game is manipulating the ship). You both make fine and valid points. However...

The game is a grinder. That is how it is built, regardless of the intentions of the developers, it turned out to be a grind! Therefore, it is extremely disappointing, and not fun at all, to see progress wiped on a PvP kill, Kraken attack, sinking in a storm, or the worse of them all...a disconnect. So, the point here is to cushion the blow of that loss, and maintain what is fun, not for just you, and others that are content with sailing around the world and enjoying the scenery, but also for those that like to see their progress in numbers, that like to earn all of the cosmetic goodies, that like the feeling of yet another promotion and commendation, that like the idea of grinding to legend before their gaming buddies, and an unlock in the merchant's store, among thousands of other possible reasons. You see, the idea proposed here maintains the fun for EVERYONE and does not take away from anyone's game play. Reward experience points (AKA Reputation) on Voyage Complete, and Gold on turn in. I went back through this thread. There are a handful of arguments against it. Not a single one of them show how this would negatively effect game play! There are plenty that show how this would be a positive change for every player in the game! Change my mind!

EDIT: @DaveyJay1984 why does it concern you that reputation must be rewarded when the item is handed in at the outpost? All items will eventually make their way to an outpost, either from the person that found them, or a Pirate that stole them. Gold would be the turn in award. I understand what you are getting at. But one word you used in your comment to @Silverbaine1 is "job". This is a game, entertainment, for fun. For crying out loud it has walking skeletons, a kraken and a magic skull cloud. They named Experience Points "Reputation" simply to meet some lore or thematic purpose. Does it really, honestly matter? The idea is insuring people gain something for their effort, something worthwhile, not a tiny percentage. A bonus on turn in is fine. But the majority should be at "Voyage Complete"

@touchdown1504 Correct they will, mostly, some things get lost at sea, make their way back to the outpost. The reward is for the person who gets them there. If you read my post above, you will probably see that I recognised that I'm not going to win this argument and discussed some potential middle ground.
As for the "job" yes it's a game and it's entertainment but yoi, while playing that game, decided to take on a job rather than pirating or just enjoying the world or the miriad other ways in which you can be entertained.

@daveyjay1984 Yes the gold. But since you are so dead set against this, I am asking you honestly...How does the idea negatively impact game play? Give me some honest to goodness negatives of rewarding all reputation on Voyage Complete, and all Gold on turn ins.

@spyderhat Yep. Probably would have saved this entire argument. You get a reward for turn in of what you find through your exploration... Would have been a very different game.

@daveyjay1984 Sooooo...nothing? just one negative aspect to the idea? Just one, a real one.

@TouchDown1504 answer me this. Does the person handing in the gold get reputation if they stole it? If so, is it reasonable for two people to get the gold?
On a side note, games are an analogue to reality and therefore there is a reasonable case for expecting there to be some level of real world expectation in them. Not my main point.
Edit and you will have to forgive delayed responses, I'm playing the game before I have to go to work while trying to keep up with this.

@daveyjay1984 Buddy, this was not about "winning" an argument. you made some awesome points. But I think many of us (myself included) tend to look at how we like the game to be played, as opposed to how others like the game to be played. Some play it in a way you would consider a "job". Those same folks consider that fun! Thus not a job to them. But anyhow...good conversation.

Edit: we posted at the same time LOL , sorry bout that. Yeah, of course two folks would get the gold award. If your Sloop crew snagged my Captains chest and turn it in, I received the XP when I dug it up (solved riddle, or whatever) You and your crewmate would receive the Gold on the turn in! Nothing changes EXCEPT the timing of the two types of rewards. Everything else stays absolutely as is. I suppose the person handing in could get like a Reputation bonus, but the full reputation goes to the person who did the legwork to find it.

@touchdown1504 No, it's about people coming into a game and wanting to change the experience to suit them when there are a large number of people who are playing and enjoying it as it is and how they knew it was when they spent their money. It's about finding a compromise, so that the game I love doesn't get recycled into everything else while also allowing you to enjoy it.

@TouchDown1504 And again posting together.
I should also get rep for giving the gold hoarders what they are clearly fanatical about, hence the reduced or percentage of rep. Split the rep to the person who found and the person who actually presented the goods.

@daveyjay1984 You mistake me. This is not about my personal enjoyment. this idea came up during the Technical Alpha. I love the idea because it has the possibility of smoothing out many other aspects. No, there really aren't any "changes" that I can think of for my personal pleasure, just some additions. We will not simply agree on the Reputation Part. I firmly believe the person who hunts the "X"s, solves the riddle, beats the skeleton boss, and so on, is the one that deserves the Experience points. If it wasn't named reputation this would not even be an argument...think about it! As a matter of fact if it was called what it actually is...XP...more folks would be asking why they don't get XP when the "Voyage Complete" splashes on the screen, or when they solve a riddle, or defeat captain bad a*s on Snake island.

@touchdown1504 I still fundamentally disagree that rep and xp are the same thing. You aren't gaining experience in game. You gain the experience in real life and get better at all aspects of the game without it providing you a boost for reaching a level (the core mechanic of xp).
You gain reputation with factions for giving them what they want (not completing arbitrary assignments, you can, slowly, reach pirate legend without ever starting or completing a voyage).
They, when they feel that you deserve it (LVL 50) then advise the pirate legend association that you are a cool cat and deserve membership. Once all three factions have advised that you are a cool cat, you are given access to the club.
Edit: as you will note, I was also in the Alpha tests and was against this viewpoint at that stage too. Just found an interesting article where Mike Chapman states "our approach was always to think of real life." It isn't specifically about this point but an interesting addition.

@daveyjay1984 And from a lore, or thematic view point you are 100% correct, and I am 100% in your court on that piece. From a game mechanics standpoint Reputation is Experience Points. It is what levels you up (or allows you to buy promotions) which eventually gets you to Legendary, and whatever they have planned for later. I also have read several articles, and watched tons of interviews, and so on. I think it is safe to assume things have not turned out exactly how they envisioned. That is fine, most things rarely do. With that in mind, adjustments have to be made, and I have no doubts they will be. I believe this adjustment is a small, simple adjustment that would have a large positive impact on game play. Apparently I am not the only one, this is not the only thread discussing the same topic. In less than 48 hours it has grown significantly. regardless of the Lore reasons, people want to have fun, its simply not fun losing everything. Hell if it makes you feel better, flip it around, reward the gold on Voyage Complete, Reputation on turn in...either way the voyage is not a complete waste on a loss.