Are offensive bullies what sot offers?

Drawbacks are happening because there are almost no clear enough distinction between pure PvP and griefing.

There is a solution though. The game needs more countermeasures around and on islands, but also a different approach to the reputation system, considering voyages as well.

@misterdoomed If PVP is that easy to avoid, why are people so adamant against PVE servers? You make it sound like PVP is just an inconvenience to be avoided. If that is the case, why not make the game more fun by eliminating the inconvenience for those who don't want it?

@goht said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

Hahaha, another one down! I like to think my crew and I are responsible for a few pre- order cancellations. The pirates life for me!

Cool. Burn it to the ground so developers don't ever make something like this in the future. Let SoT be an example to everyone in the gaming industry of what happens when you make a game that is just for griefers.

@chitown-bear
Very very very few people are having trouble with pvp. If you notice its the same few people who just keep making posts over and over.
And pvp is just a inconvenience to be avoided if you want to avoid it.
If you separate the servers then you eliminate the need to keep an eye open, or to wonder whats around the corner, or if that boat you see will open fire.
The tension is the best thing going for the game, why remove it?

@airikr01 Rare has stated they want this to be a social Pirate game. The only way that happens is if encounters between players is unlikely to involve PVP. Once players are conditioned that interactions are more likely to lead to shooting than to socializing everyone will shoot first.

The only way to prevent that is for a game mechanic that makes PVP hard to start in most situations. Without that limitation, this will become CoD Pirate Edition.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people like that online. Just compare this to something like DayZ. there are a lot of jerks in that game too, but there's also quite a lot of nice people that just want to get by (Like me when I play DayZ). And with the screaming profanity thing, that's the danger of Voice Chat. It CAN be used to hurl insults. It's a tool that can be used for good and for bad. I haven't really had that big of an issue with players, except the occasional brig sentence. Word of advice: Just ignore them. They WANT to get a reaction out of you, they WANT you to quit the game. If I ever run into a crew like that, chasing me half across the map and screaming curse words at me, I'd just ignore them and try and get on with what I was doing.

@misterdoomed Personally, I wouldn't play on a PVE server. I agree, it would be boring for me. I do know others who would love this game if not for the PVP. They won't be playing.

I feel that Rare has given the impression, and many are wanting, a game that involves meeting others in taverns, drinking, and doing goofy activities. Not one that becomes a shoot on sight game.

I enjoyed the PVP and even got some PVE in during my play time. It wasn't a problem for me. I also didn't come across a single ship in 6 hours last night that didn't shoot first. I had a blast. Didn't win them all but we did win most of them.
I also know that one of the people we attacked ended up rage quitting. Not a good sign for a short open beta. I don't think this is as isolated as you make it sound. The forums may be the same people over and over, but this will be hardest on casual gamers who are less likely to post on forums.

@airikr01 It's pretty crazy that the game isn't even out yet and there are people getting off on gloating about how they are ruining the game for everyone else and getting people to cancel their pre-orders. Is this the positive social interaction that Rare was anticipating? Lol.

@chitown-bear said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@airikr01 Rare has stated they want this to be a social Pirate game. The only way that happens is if encounters between players is unlikely to involve PVP. Once players are conditioned that interactions are more likely to lead to shooting than to socializing everyone will shoot first.

The only way to prevent that is for a game mechanic that makes PVP hard to start in most situations. Without that limitation, this will become CoD Pirate Edition.

Social as in your crew, nowhere are you ever going to get a full community to work together and be happy with rainbows and butterflies, especially in a pirate crew...

Pirates were supposedly fiercely loyal to their crew as that is what kept you alive, but this did not stretch to strangers on the water.

You need to keep that in mind as they fully advocate that the treasure isnt yours until its sold as well.

@zakxdad sounds like those kids weren’t even good, but also sounds like you’re not very good either😕 maybe this isn’t your type of game? a mission could take you hours if people on your server are actively pirating, just the cost of this style of game...

@blackmage117 The biggest issue is that there is absolutely no risk to a PVP attack. Because of that, you can attack people over and over with no adverse effects even if you lose them all.
There is also absolutely no value to being attacked. The absolute best you can hope for is to end the fight with fewer materials than you started with. Even when you win, you lose.
I don't see a way of fixing that dynamic without changing the entire structure of the game.

The only thing I have come up with is to use something along the lines of a "Privateer Writ". My initial thought is to make them something that you pay a good amount of gold for (about the same as a higher level voyage reward) and could have 3 at a time. You could use them to initiate PVP at any time. If you sink the ship or kill all of the opposing crew, you get the loot like you do now and a small Privateer's bonus. If the other side wins, they get the value of the writ.

You can't do damage without using a writ, but as soon as you use it the team you attack can defend without needing one.

This would prevent camping almost entirely and motivate PVP'ers to pick strategic targets instead of attacking everything. It also has the potential to reward someone for fending off a PVP attack.

@chitown-bear
If its any consolation the entire last beta i met tons of friendly people in game. Probably more people interested in just hanging out and talking on dock than fighting.
So maybe after launch with more to do and knowing your items wont reset in a week people will calm down.

@kgmshylian agreed. However... this would take 'action' on the part of the community, and with the point we're at in 2018 I don't see that 'action' being of a positive nature.

I'll be honest here... I loathe MS in any and every facet of their existence, so for me to purchase this game there had to be a greater reason to purchase it. There is, at least for me a greater reason to come here and try a different kind of game. I'm not sure if this is against rules or anything, but I'm flat out tired of steam and it's 'community'. If I wanted to hear toxic, selfish, rude and distasteful comments all day long, that's where I would go.

So yeah.... I was hoping for more and better while here. So far I feel pretty good about my purchase, the community is for the most part very decent and I've enjoyed myself and my purchase. But then there are the 'others'... those who shall not be named.

In order to see positive change, those 'others' need to be the ones who initiate that change. We cannot force it upon them, we cannot expect it from them, but that's what needs to happen. It never will.

@misterdoomed I would hope that is the case. But then, I keep thinking back to The Division. The thought was that most people would want to work together to get the best PVE loot out of the Dark Zone. And that was true. What they didn't count on is that all it took was a small number of people who only wanted to PVP to kill the entire concept.

That small minority of shoot first players made it so that no one trusted each other. Ever. And with that, the game literally almost died.

That is why I would like to know if Rare looked at those problems and why they think how they are implementing this similar concept will end any differently.

@airikr01 said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

Sam Brooks  /  Feb 28, 2018

How friend-building game Sea of Thieves reflects the company that created it

In January, Sam Brooks made a studio visit to Rare Studios outside Birmingham in the UK to play the studio's game Sea of Thieves, currently in open beta. He tells the story of an enchanting and slightly bizarre trip with a group of gregarious goofs.

And here's one from the article's writer:

Sea of Thieves isn’t about winning, it’s not about shooting things dead or 360-no-scopes – it’s about making people feel good for playing it.

The comment about the 360-no-scope caught my attention because it was also brought up in the Inn-side Story #25 at 3:55 as a cool thing to do.

It just goes to show that everyone is interpreting this game as whatever they want it to be because that's what people do.

@chitown-bear
I cant comment on the division so you could be right many have brought up that game. I know you mentioned extraction zones so i dont know if that meant that there was only a couple places to get extracted from " like windows" and those where easy to camp like swtor was or if the zones where small with choke points line LoL and stuff where you have to take one of 3 paths to the extraction zones. If it was like that then yes i could see just a few hard core jerks ruining it .
With SoT the map is so big, the ships are equally as fast ( in the right direction ) and there are tons of outposts to go to. So far in my experience it has been super easy to pve and avoid contact if i choose.
There are even exploits to use like jumping off the ship with chest and turn it in then teleport back to ship all the while the bad guys are chasing a empty ship lol.
My biggest fear as far as nothing but pvp will come in a few months when players have all the cosmetics and zero gold sink there will be nothing to play for exept pvp...then what?
Now for me the pure pvp wont be a problem but its going to run off lots of the timid players when pvp is all thats left.
Game needs to find gold sinks fast.

@misterdoomed The larger maps and more extraction areas do have some advantages, as does the lack of PVE at the extraction zones.

We did most of our PVP away from the outposts. One advantage The Division had is that the PVP'ers had a hard time getting deeper into the PVE areas. In this game, it is just as easy to sink someone ship while they are out doing the PVE content as it is while they are turning them in.

I still think the biggest problem is that there is no negative impact from failing at PVP. You can keep attacking everyone you find over and over again. You may never go forward but if that is what you want, you can do it. And for people who prefer PVE they come out behind for being attacked even if they win.

Not a good combination. I think this game is perfect for someone like me. I used to do almost nothing but PVP but as I age, my reflexes are slowing and I can't do CoD well anymore. I can still more than hold my own in this one.

My biggest hope is that most of the die hard PVP'ers have only played because it was free and that a more casual, friendly group are the ones that end up buying the game.

Im not going to read t he entire 10 pages of this thread but allow me to speak.

I haven't played anything at all but from an outside standpoint, they WERE being kind of jerks, but you should ALWAYS expect that in a PLAYER VS PLAYER game.

GTA has them and many others games do. It's how it is. Expecting the devs to do something about it is kinda silly. Its why they say Online INteractions may vary or whatever.

@copenhoggin said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@d0mino28 said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@cpoky said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@misterdoomed said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@copenhoggin said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

@lucky-monkee said in Are offensive bullies what sot offers?:

I am gonna be one of those guys now.

Camping: I was camping at an outpost(I was afk and it seemed safe) for 40 minutes nobody showed up. So lets please drop the myth of ppl camping outposts - it's not a viable strategy.

^^ this is where you went off the tracks, at full speed. The myth of camping/griefing at outposts.... really dude? So it didn't happen to you so it doesn't exist? I've never won the lotto but I'm not going to say it doesn't exist...

So you think it's not profitable? If you know that chickens or pigs can only be turned in at a few places, and you know that some chickens and pigs are worth quite a bit more than chests are, you don't think that some folks would camp that?

I just wanna know where you people come from... is there a large rock you all hide under to avoid reality?

Ive played every beta and stress test so far and not seen one outpost camped.
Can you explain that? Ive also watched hundreds of hours of streaming and not seen one outpost camped. Can you explain that?
If outpost camping and griefing is as bad as some people say how comes ive never once seen it, not even once.

Agreed, Ive not the hours as my fellow Parrotheads, I'm maybe close to 200, but in all that time with them, I have NEVER come across any outpost with a boat of ANY kind sitting off in the distance camping/lurking or whatever. And the Griefing thing, that's from anyone pov. I joined a game last night where dude was locked in the brig...why...not being ANY USE. Now from his pov WE were the bad guys (threatened to file a Griefing Complaint), but from OUR pov if youre not helping you might as well be an enemy standing on our boat.

Like I say, some deal with conflict better than others.
Interpretations.

Some 'conflicts' are different than others... wouldn't you agree? Your experience is not mine, mine not yours.... If you doubt that it is happening it might be easier for you to explain why there are a multitude of threads about this same exact subject. We're all just hallucinating? We're all just making stuff up? It's only happened to me a couple times now, I see the problem that COULD get worse but for all we know it could be non-existent upon official release.

These are experiences that players are having, some are not having the same experience, but.... to say that the person having a different experience is in fact a lunatic and making these things up is just preposterous.

Never said anything about 'lunatic' or 'making things up'.
They are addressing these issues and a few additions are gonna make it according to their Youtube channel re: character customisation, merchant, spawn etc.

@mzargothekhajit
Not sure what this has to do with my advice for the solo player. If you Sneak aboard and kill them then it’s pretty easy if they don’t notice you and you outskill them, but in the case for the original poster it sounds like he’s not quite so good at PVP. He’s openly trying to avoid other players and being chased. If he wants to avoid other plays driving into the wind, driving through chokes, and carrying explosive barrels to use as mines are probably his best bet if he doesn’t think he can win a gun fight.

There in lies one of many fundamental issues with this game for me (canceled preorder).

Depositing your treasure.

Rare should have created a pirate barter system between players within this game. When you find the treasure or gold, it is yours. You don't sail halfway across the map and bring it to a 3rd party contractor. You put it on your ship or you bury it on an island. That is the pirate way.

The progression would be a safe pirate merchant ship sailing the open seas. You would sell your valuables at this NCP ship.

Nevertheless, the design of the game is set. This game is the game you get. I really don't know how they are going to fix rude players. Rare is going to be forced to create safe zones. There I said it.

@chitown-bear
L**o you sound like me, im pushing 50 and just cant do the true fps like overwatch or CoD, but can hold my own here because its as much to do with strategy as it is clicking a button.
I do agree that losing in pvp has no consequence other than the set back of having to get a new ship....i mean technically its not a set back for pve guys unless they have the chest on board but yes you are right that most of it falls on the player trying to avoid pvp.
Ive been one that wouldn't mind some kind of set back for pvp loses BUT i dont think rare wants things that serious.
Im just hoping that the game grows and matures along with a good stable long term base of players and finds a good balance between all without changing much.
Alot of it will come down to us as players. After the initial rush at release it will become a set base of players. Hopefully the super aggressive and the super timid will be gone by then and we will be left with a great community.

@misterdoomed We can hope, but I do know a couple of friends that were excited about this game that won't be getting it at launch because of their experience in this Beta. They just want a fun game to play. They enjoyed parts of the game but were put off by always getting attacked.

Unfortunately, I see this game starting off hot but with the active population dropping off quickly. The question will be if they can make the necessary changes to reign in PVP fast enough to either draw the old players back or bring in new ones.

I would have felt much better if they had a plan they could explain up front. Instead, I think they will be reacting to the obvious.