Ship Upgrades

@double7gamedev I believe all the upgrades that I enumerated could be easily balanced with minimal numbers tweaking. I listed pros and cons for each of them. We need something to drive gameplay. Upgrades that can be shot off and require gold to replace gives us a reason to keep making gold.

@double7gamedev said in Ship Upgrades:

@quixoticfolly said in Ship Upgrades:

@double7gamedev I believe all the upgrades that I enumerated could be easily balanced with minimal numbers tweaking. I listed pros and cons for each of them. We need something to drive gameplay. Upgrades that can be shot off and require gold to replace gives us a reason to keep making gold.

Yeah. I am sure Rare developers have talked about this before because it is a very big design decision. From their perspective the pros and cons of this system are that it can increase longevity of people playing, but it also leads to possible frustration. I think they might be wanting to avoid players from going, "UGHHH, EVERYONE IS JUST RAMMING ME", or having similar issues where everyone goes on forums or reddit and complains for something that doesn't seemed balanced to them to be changed.

Your upgrades are really nice ideas, and I'd be fine with them costing gold and stuff to purchase but I am not sure about them being destroyed and repaired as that has the possibility of being extremely frustrating. So stuff like the geared capstan would itself need to have a downside applied to it.

They all have downsides. The extra-large rudder is easily destroyed if you scrape bottom and increases the depth at which you scrape. The capstan is destroyed by a single cannon shot and you completely lose your anchor until you make port. I've thought these out. All of the downsides are severe enough that a basic ship should be evenly matched or if outmatched, should gain a decent advantage with only one well-placed or lucky cannon shot.

@gulpee-rex

@quixoticfolly said in Ship Upgrades:

They all have downsides. The extra-large rudder is easily destroyed if you scrape bottom and increases the depth at which you scrape. The capstan is destroyed by a single cannon shot and you completely lose your anchor until you make port. I've thought these out. All of the downsides are severe enough that a basic ship should be evenly matched or if outmatched, should gain a decent advantage with only one well-placed or lucky cannon shot.

@quixoticfolly i would love to get something like a cannon for destroying sails

@NekroSorken @LumberJamesHD

I didn't mention anything sail destroying because it would be more difficult to balance and add a whole new level of complexity to the game. You would need sail repairing items and storage added. Access points and timers for repair. The balance between ships would be near impossible as well. Sheer weight of fire and number of sails would give the large ships an unbeatable advantage. All of the upgrades I've listed could be adapted in some way to the small ship. The ramming prow could reduce speed only on the small ship. The harpoon cannon could be forward mounted and reduce cannon rotation forward. Etc. The only one that couldn't be adapted and would be admittedly overpowered is the cannon turrets upgrade, but that one would be ridiculously easy to just run away from or lure into shallow water to get stuck / sink.

@double7gamedev If the downside is too irritating for you, don't use them. It's a risk vs reward question at that point. Do you love the upgrade enough to outweigh the irritation of repairs/vulnerability? Are you so rich you can afford to keep replacing them? Personally during the closed beta I made about 2500 gold per voyage once I fully upgraded the faction. The only time my galleon was ever sunk I didn't know gunpowder barrels could take damage through the hull and had six in the bottom deck. I currently have 15,000 gold on my character. I have nothing to do, but sink ships and grief people. This game needs a real gold sink. This would be a fun way to do it. I'd love to see the playstyles and combat mechanics that evolve from this too.

Edit to add: It's kinda like the small vs large ships right now. The large ship is obviously better, but is it worth the irritation of finding a decent crew?

@double7gamedev I'm with you on what you have said but people need to harden up. If the game is too easy then its no fun after you have played for a few hours/ days / weeks. if people have upgrades like this and are killing you then team up with a crew or get better and out run / turn them. I'm really worried that I'll get the game and be done with it because it has no progression that really means anything. I also think that the parts being destroyed is a good idea as long as the balance of the repair is fair.

@sageset8756465 All sorts of cosmetics are already planned. While I do love the puckle gun, I'm trying to suggest balanced ship upgrades that have pros and cons. It's about style of play / combat, rather than linear progression to stomp noobs.

@sageset8756465 said in Ship Upgrades:

@sageset8756465 said in Ship Upgrades:

What if you could have a flag on top of the crows nest that could have your crew emblem on it, or some other custom decals.
also, what if you could change you ships wood color and type, and add engravings or paint. nothing that changes the game, just cosmetic.

what about upgrading the sails with a better material, making them faster;or a reinforced rudder, slower but stronger. so one would have to chose a field to upgrade without being overpowered to keep balance. Maybe you could buy or find different cannon ammo, rather than new cannons. or a puckle gun as a reward for a late game quest, once you're a pirate legend, people would fear your armory

This has already actually been addressed by Rare:

Can you tell us more about the in-game progression? I’d imagine you start with a small ship and work from there.
"You can imagine yourself as a penniless pirate dressed in rags and you want to become a pirate legend in fine clothing and awesome weaponry and cool equipment with the best ship. We have a progression system."

Including ship customisation?
"Yes."

With missions and objectives to earn in-game currency to buy all of it?
"Yeah. You get treasure and you want the loot, you’ll want to spend it. Personal progressions are around you and also on weapons and objects that you can carry. Everyone wants to own a ship or ships and make it look like they want it to look cool. These customizations aren’t just aesthetics but functional too. So a larger sail that looks cool will also makes your ship move quicker too."

Entertainment

Just like everything else we've seen in the game thus far, items and customization will have fictionally better/worse attributes. Just like how the Blunderbuss is better at close range compared to the Flint Lock Pistol, but the Eye of Reach is better than both at longer distances. Rare looks to extend this idea into ship customization.

@wirpsha said in Ship Upgrades:

ok, im against all ship upgrades.
and its time to understand that its not "flying holy legendary lazer shark with harpoon mount" game...

Check my post above yours mate, ship upgrades are going to be in the game whether you like it or not. But I trust Rare to do it tactfully, I don't think it will be anything extreme. Like I said, it will be functional upgrades, that are really only situationally better. Just like what we see in the limited number of weapons we have now.

@ethnine I've yet to see or hear about any specific ship upgrades.

@quixoticfolly there is a post above that is actually an interview with Gregg Mayles discussing ship upgrades. There is also this article:

https://segmentnext.com/2016/08/29/sea-of-thieves-interview-exploration-solo-customization-and-more/

SegmentNext: With such a vast world, there surely are legendary lost treasures waiting to be found. Is Rare adding unique weapons, ships, or other items in the game?

Mike Chapman: "Yes! All of the above!"

SegmentNext: What kind of a character progression system are we looking at here? On that note, how deep does the customization process go for both characters and ships? Can we create our own Jolly Roger?

Mike Chapman: "Players will be able to customize a lot of aspects about their character, such as their clothing, their trinkets and how they look overall. Players will also be able to progress the things they have such as equipment and weapons. However, we want to encourage players to perform different roles on the ship based the situations they find themselves in, so we decided not to lock players into defined roles, such as always being better at operating the sails or firing the cannons. The difference between good crews and excellent crews will be how well they work together on the ship and how they decide who does what in any given moment, just as you would expect if you were on a real ship. Players will also be able to customize and upgrade the ships they own. Playing on someone else’s ship is always very compelling, since you get to see the choices they’ve made and try out their upgrades."

There is also some information out there, I can't link to it, but if you want to find it you can. :)

@ethnine My point was they haven't given any specific details. No X upgrade or Y modification beyond cosmetics.

@quixoticfolly Gregg Mayles used sails as an example:

With missions and objectives to earn in-game currency to buy all of it?
"Yeah. You get treasure and you want the loot, you’ll want to spend it. Personal progressions are around you and also on weapons and objects that you can carry. Everyone wants to own a ship or ships and make it look like they want it to look cool. These customizations aren’t just aesthetics but functional too. So a larger sail that looks cool will also makes your ship move quicker too."

I agree there's a lot of missing parts to this, we don't know much. But they've been saying these kinds of things for years now. Mike Chapman has a similar comment somewhere. And there's some information on hulls out there as well, which I cannot link here.

@seniorwaffle14 said in Ship Upgrades:

Ship upgrades should be exactly like the original post says: with downsides. It's nothing more than a representation of your load out and preferred play style. I think that's something people tend to overlook when they hear "upgrades."

"Side-grades"

@project-adc Thanks. I really hope they add something that makes people want to keep playing. Some kind of gold sink that's actually worth buying over and over.

These proposed upgrades sound cool, but they also sound like they would require a significantly more advanced damage model for the ships than is currently in the game (like being able to target and damage specific bits).

While I'm all for, don't get me wrong. One of my "wishlist" items for this game post-release, is a more complex damage model that lets you target masts, structural damage, etc. It's a little disappointing right now, that you can riddle a ship with cannon fire in the mid-deck and it functionally does nothing unless you take on enough water to reach it.