Revitalise Trade Routes

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    I know it's been a (long) while since they were nerfed but I honestly think the changes Rare made to the purchasing and selling of Merchant Commodity crates was a massive mistake. By lowering their values and increasing the purchase cooldown per outpost to 5 in-game days, they have effectively killed off trade routes.

    I can understand that, around their introduction, they were a massive gold farming issue. However, I think that lowering their value would have been sufficient enough on its own.

    Reverting the cooldown or setting it to a less restrictive duration (maybe 2 in-game days), I think could revitalise this feature once more.

    Decreasing the value for selling your own commodities to Reapers (along with the Emissary boost it gives), while increasing the same for stolen commodities may also be necessary for balance (risk vs reward).

    I realise that most Merchants now prefer to just do Lost Shipments but revitalising the trade routes would add some more variety back to the seas.

    Discuss.

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  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    It really wasn't a gold farming issue it was a cheese feature issue that they never nerf but they nerf everyone else playing organically, and it cost them appeal in their own new content.

    They nerf based on alliances cheesing with the feature they designed lol, everyone else and content appeal pay the price for it.

    there are unfortunately a lot less merchants than there used to be around the organic environment as people left the game/organic playstyle but I still support making commodities appealing again

    Merchants at one point were a strong part of the organic environment for a variety of reasons.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @wolfmanbush said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    They nerf based on alliances cheesing with the feature they designed lol, everyone else and content appeal pay the price for it.

    Yeah, this is likely the real reason. But it still is unfortunate that it has to affect the game as a whole, just because of inorganic server alliances.

    One way to deal with that, albeit less than elegant, would be to increase the cooldown dependent on the number of ships in an alliance. Start at 2 in-game days, every ship in the alliance increases the cooldown by 1 day.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    The stolen commodities commendation is pretty hard to complete because I never see anyone hauling these anymore. I don't have any of those comms finished because I don't haul them very often either.

    I guess I'm part of the problem, but there really isn't a lot of motivation to sail all around the map when you could just do a Lost Shipment instead and they never seem to go in the same direction as you'd need to go for the crates.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @d3adst1ck said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    The stolen commodities commendation is pretty hard to complete because I never see anyone hauling these anymore. I don't have any of those comms finished because I don't haul them very often either.

    I guess I'm part of the problem, but there really isn't a lot of motivation to sail all around the map when you could just do a Lost Shipment instead and they never seem to go in the same direction as you'd need to go for the crates.

    50 is a wild organic requirement in content that they killed off in the first few weeks

    People have long been more likely to find a random 1 or 2 on a dock somewhere that a new player left than a boat actually organically hauling them around

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @wolfmanbush said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @d3adst1ck said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    The stolen commodities commendation is pretty hard to complete because I never see anyone hauling these anymore. I don't have any of those comms finished because I don't haul them very often either.

    I guess I'm part of the problem, but there really isn't a lot of motivation to sail all around the map when you could just do a Lost Shipment instead and they never seem to go in the same direction as you'd need to go for the crates.

    50 is a wild organic requirement in content that they killed off in the first few weeks

    People have long been more likely to find a random 1 or 2 on a dock somewhere that a new player left than a boat actually organically hauling them around

    Out of the 6 I've turned in, I think 4 of them were found on two separate dock (2 each). The other 2 I might have actually stolen.

    50 is going to be a long road unless they become more attractive to players.

  • Scheneighnay
    Ship Mate

    I'm primarily a merchant but rarely do commodity runs because it's pretty high risk to have to rely on gaining access to a place people spawn at.

    I don't mind the cool down but restoring the rewards would make it more tempting.

    As for stealing cargo, I rarely see other players with commodities either.

  • EldritchBear
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    When I do lost shipments, I'll usually buy whatever the local merchant has and just offload it at the destination. I tried doing actual merchant runs at first, but the combination of being unable to make repeat runs and the risk involved with sailing back and forth across the whole map with a merchant flag up... Yeah, nah.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @scheneighnay

    ... it's pretty high risk to have to rely on gaining access to a place people spawn at.

    Yep, if you want the max profit. I think the Lost Shipment voyages are the only MA voyages that don't require you to sell at a specific location? Could also be why a lot of Merchants prefer them.

  • abjectarity
    Lord
    Insider

    @realstyli said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @scheneighnay

    ... it's pretty high risk to have to rely on gaining access to a place people spawn at.

    Yep, if you want the max profit. I think the Lost Shipment voyages are the only MA voyages that don't require you to sell at a specific location? Could also be why a lot of Merchants prefer them.

    Lost shipments are a very fast grade 5 and easy money if you're familiar with the routes. Certain routes are small with few spawn points for the clues and key. And as soon as I find the key I head straight to the end destination for the wreck.

    Commodities are worthless compared to this, unless you're trying to get the checkmark.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    Such a fun mechanic. Nothing else really like it in the game and such a shame that they nerf'd it into oblivion because of manufactured alliance servers.

    I feel like cost/reward scaling would be a neat way to reinvigorate that content.

    The current cost/reward is probably solid for Merchants level 0-24

    • Unclassified Gemstones Buy Price = 180 at Surplus, 360 at Normal
    • Unclassified Gemstones Sell price = 120 at Surplus, 600 at Normal, 900 at Sought-after

    Then double it for level 25-49

    • Unclassified Gemstones Buy Price = 360 at Surplus, 720 at Normal
    • Unclassified Gemstones Sell price = 240 at Surplus, 1200 at Normal, 1800 at Sought-after

    Then double it again for level 50-75

    • Unclassified Gemstones Buy Price = 720 at Surplus, 1440 at Normal
    • Unclassified Gemstones Sell price = 480 at Surplus, 2400 at Normal, 3600 at Sought-after

    And if you really want to prevent what happened before for whatever reason, just eliminate the "alliance bonus" as it pertains to trade route commodities. That would naturally make it an even higher risk/reward mechanic.

  • abjectarity
    Lord
    Insider

    @sweetsandman said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    And if you really want to prevent what happened before for whatever reason, just eliminate the "alliance bonus" as it pertains to trade route commodities. That would naturally make it an even higher risk/reward mechanic.

    Honestly they have the ability to selectively decide what is shared across alliances. Flags and reaper chests don't share across the alliance. Neither do the new captaincy logbooks. They could easily program specific other items not to share either.

    It's a shame if they nerf the game due to alliances. Just nerf what the alliance gets instead of the individual items getting nerfed for everyone.

  • Scheneighnay
    Ship Mate

    @realstyli said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @scheneighnay

    ... it's pretty high risk to have to rely on gaining access to a place people spawn at.

    Yep, if you want the max profit. I think the Lost Shipment voyages are the only MA voyages that don't require you to sell at a specific location? Could also be why a lot of Merchants prefer them.

    Lowest risk I think are deliveries.
    Yes you have a singular point you have to gain access to, but 9 times out of 10 nobody will be there. It's just that commodities have to be delivered to outposts, which are much more likely to have a player at or going to them.

    That and I'm spiteful and if I get sunk it'll likely destroy the bottles and cloth.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @abjectarity said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @sweetsandman said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    And if you really want to prevent what happened before for whatever reason, just eliminate the "alliance bonus" as it pertains to trade route commodities. That would naturally make it an even higher risk/reward mechanic.

    Honestly they have the ability to selectively decide what is shared across alliances. Flags and reaper chests don't share across the alliance. Neither do the new captaincy logbooks. They could easily program specific other items not to share either.

    It's a shame if they nerf the game due to alliances. Just nerf what the alliance gets instead of the individual items getting nerfed for everyone.

    Then who would alliance with the Merchants doing them ?

    Crew spots Merchant Emissary loaded with commodities - they could get (almost) nothing when allied or pick up the commodities where the merchant sunk and turn them in for a nice profit (and perhaps increase the number on their commendations).

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @lem0n-curry said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    Then who would alliance with the Merchants doing them ?

    Crew spots Merchant Emissary loaded with commodities - they could get (almost) nothing when allied or pick up the commodities where the merchant sunk and turn them in for a nice profit (and perhaps increase the number on their commendations).

    This points to the biggest problem with the alliance system. If the only good provided by the alliance system is an artificial gold (and rep) buff, then the alliance system is in desperate need of a rework.

  • HonestAuntyElle
    Commander
    Insider

    I'd like to see them have a voyage attached, optionally, just to pump up voyage numbers.

    It's great that you can do them as a side-mission, but it'd be also great if you could double-down by getting a voyage that could either discount the crates, or have a timed rush factor involved.

    Cargo crates are annoying given their 'health' requirements in the current age of SoT bombarding you with other ships, skeleton ships etc.

    The other thing is, Merchant is usually my Solo Goto.

    It's just too awkward harpooning so many commodities, or handling them all.

    I'd like to see a reduction in the amount of commodities available to buy, but a buff to their sell and buy prices.

    This would have the unfortunate effect of not allowing people as much granular control of how much they want to invest, but I think it would raise the popularity of the crates, as well as less lag when ships sink.

    Actually, overall, if the loot rewards for playing with less players tended towards higher value rewards, but less of them, I'd be more interested in playing solo.

    Loot Juggling has always, and will always, be annoying with a team, let alone solo.

    No matter how many nice things are added like collectors chests, harpoons, rowboats, or the hotly requested wheelbarrow.

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    @sweetsandman said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @lem0n-curry said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    Then who would alliance with the Merchants doing them ?

    Crew spots Merchant Emissary loaded with commodities - they could get (almost) nothing when allied or pick up the commodities where the merchant sunk and turn them in for a nice profit (and perhaps increase the number on their commendations).

    This points to the biggest problem with the alliance system. If the only good provided by the alliance system is an artificial gold buff, then the alliance system is in desperate need of a rework.

    I'd like to see an alliance reward tied with an entire season. I want to see captaincy milestones for voyages and treasure and PVP and all that jazz. I want to see a real reason to be in an alliance, a real reason to stay true in the alliance, a real reason to betray that alliance. Most of all, I want to see voyages that can only be done in an alliance that is big and difficult and has a massive beacon like veil/ashen tornadoes or a FotD skull.

    I agree, right now the only reason to alliance up is to cheese gold, or betray for the memes.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @lordqulex said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    I'd like to see an alliance reward tied with an entire season. I want to see captaincy milestones for voyages and treasure and PVP and all that jazz. I want to see a real reason to be in an alliance, a real reason to stay true in the alliance, a real reason to betray that alliance. Most of all, I want to see voyages that can only be done in an alliance that is big and difficult and has a massive beacon like veil/ashen tornadoes or a FotD skull.

    Yes. SO much YES!!!!

    Maybe they'll eliminate alliances altogether and instead introduce "Guilds" that offer this type of in depth integration.

    They've kind of hinted at Guilds...and Season 9 was listed to have "More Social Options for Crews" on the roadmap...I know the roadmap has been thrown off a bit, but certainly realistic to think something like that is on the horizon.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    Yah something needs to be done with this and cargo.

    Almost no one does them.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @sweetsandman said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    @lem0n-curry said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    Then who would alliance with the Merchants doing them ?

    Crew spots Merchant Emissary loaded with commodities - they could get (almost) nothing when allied or pick up the commodities where the merchant sunk and turn them in for a nice profit (and perhaps increase the number on their commendations).

    This points to the biggest problem with the alliance system. If the only good provided by the alliance system is an artificial gold (and rep) buff, then the alliance system is in desperate need of a rework.

    It certainly is one of the incentives to be in an alliance; others are doing a world event together; but if a merchant has to go round a few outposts to deliver their commodities they won't be much of a help either.

  • Scheneighnay
    Ship Mate

    @honestauntyelle said in Revitalise Trade Routes:

    I'd like to see them have a voyage attached, optionally, just to pump up voyage numbers.

    It's great that you can do them as a side-mission, but it'd be also great if you could double-down by getting a voyage that could either discount the crates, or have a timed rush factor involved.

    Cargo crates are annoying given their 'health' requirements in the current age of SoT bombarding you with other ships, skeleton ships etc.

    The other thing is, Merchant is usually my Solo Goto.

    It's just too awkward harpooning so many commodities, or handling them all.

    I'd like to see a reduction in the amount of commodities available to buy, but a buff to their sell and buy prices.

    This would have the unfortunate effect of not allowing people as much granular control of how much they want to invest, but I think it would raise the popularity of the crates, as well as less lag when ships sink.

    Actually, overall, if the loot rewards for playing with less players tended towards higher value rewards, but less of them, I'd be more interested in playing solo.

    Loot Juggling has always, and will always, be annoying with a team, let alone solo.

    No matter how many nice things are added like collectors chests, harpoons, rowboats, or the hotly requested wheelbarrow.

    I rarely run into problems with cargo crates.
    Plants go on the top deck where they can catch rain, cloth goes on top of a barrel on the highest covered deck so they don't get wet until the ship sinks, and bottles go in the middle of an enclosed space where cannon balls will get stopped before hitting them.
    I got krakened mid-run today and all my goods were still in perfect condition at the destination.

    Seconding that loot juggling is the worst part of being a merchant though.
    Takes a very long time solo to get everything onto the ship for any merchant run.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    I didn't read the rest of the thread, but I'm all for making more money doing this.

    I don't think you should get Reaper rep or Multiplier for these unless stolen, and even then minimal to stymie Reaper Server Alliances...

    But yeah. If Bob the Pie-rat runs a full circle, Bob should get more moneys.

  • Sally Kraken
    Marauder

    Doing things like this encourages players to sail around the map - they become potential encounters for other pirates and that is a good thing. Unfortunately, these elements keep being brought into the game and then they are destroyed by heavy handed nerfing - to the point where nobody does them and all the development effort put into the process is thrown away.

    Burying treasure and the map board, commodities, devils roar cargo runs - many things that people, myself included, did and then stopped doing because they just werent worth it anymore. I mean, look at the devils roar cargo runs - they actually force you to leave devils roar and often take you far away from where you actually want to be - they may as well have removed them. It has left the actual trade companies in a really sad state and the variety is lost as people focus on a tiny selection of worthwhile activities.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    I think that as a server boots up, it should randomize what outpost has what, and what will buy what, so you have to read the log to know where to go, rather than using a website or list online to optimize your rout in every way.

    My big reason for the idea is just so there isnt some single "meta" rout for it, as well it would make it harder to track the rout some one will take to attack them.

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