Since you are continuing these tall tale stories in time limited adventures future sea of thieves players wont be able to witness anything past the Heart of Fire. If this this flawed mindset of time limited FOMO content is how you are going to keep doing things then perhaps those tall tales should be retired?
Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales
@magus104 said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
Since you are continuing these tall tale stories in time limited adventures future sea of thieves players wont be able to witness anything past the Heart of Fire. If this this flawed mindset of time limited FOMO content is how you are going to keep doing things then perhaps those tall tales should be retired?
@wolfmanbush I'm not sure just how much effort it would take but I personally think the best way to alleviate the fomo and catch people up on Adventures they missed would be to create a "Tall Tale" for each set of 3 Adventures that would take you through one of the Pirates Life portals and tell/show you the story of that set of Adventures in a similar way to how you have scenery and narration around you during the portal sequences in the Pirates Life Tall Tales.
That way people can catch up and get invested in the story they missed in a more engaging way then perhaps just reading some text boxes or watching youtube videos. But also doesn't require Rare to create any real gameplay, just some visuals and some nice voice over. Don't know how difficult that would be to fit in with the process of developing these things though.
@zig-zag-ltu said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
I believe once they have enough of them, they will be separated into Single player Sea of Thieves together with the rest of tall tales and all that space will be used for new content (prays with crossed fingers)
LOL, if you believe that then I have some prime ocean front property available here in Kansas I'll sell you for a good price.
@ninja-naranja said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
It’s more a continuation of the Sea of Thieves story as a whole.
Normally I would agree with you but...
The adventure post literally says this is the continuation of the "Heart Of Fire" arc.
@dlchief58 said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
@zig-zag-ltu said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
I believe once they have enough of them, they will be separated into Single player Sea of Thieves together with the rest of tall tales and all that space will be used for new content (prays with crossed fingers)
LOL, if you believe that then I have some prime ocean front property available here in Kansas I'll sell you for a good price.
I got a couple of bridges for sale too..
It would be nice if there was an instanced way to revisit some of the adventures tho.
When are people going to stop whining about their favorite SoT buzzword "FOMO", and throwing fits like this basically trying to throw away all the toys they do currently have..
Do you know what you're playing? This is a live service game, GaaS. It comes with the territory.
I guess let's just disregard that Rare made this shift to accommodate people's complaints about a steady stream of content, TT are too much work, and they want to be telling a story, and make changes, and affect the world telling a story in real time with these.
Not only that... but we've been getting world changes that you were either present for, or not, since very early year 1. Rare have always been clear about the way they wanted some of these things to play out, and feel. It's a world that's evolving, and sometimes things are taking place live, first hand, around us, in real time, and then we're just left in a world with whatever the aftermath is.
I'm enjoying this personally, much more than waiting 8 months for a single tall tale to come out, no content in the meantime, that's just as long as the adventures.. that they want me to redo an arbitrary number of times to pad it out..
Also... You're just going to have to get used to it... there's not a chance in the world that all these adventures get worked into TTs that permanently sit in the world alongside everything else going on, with all the weird temporary map changes they all needed, and everything is just fine because you have feelings regarding FOMO...
Reality is.. (Not that I feel this is why they aren't tales but..) Rare are barely hanging on server wise. They only have so much they can work with permanently.
@tre-oni Time limited content in a live service game is to be expected. I think most of us can get down with the idea. But answer me this: How are you going to get context on current lore as a new/returning player?
What if you had interest in the Ashen Age arc, and were new to the game checking out the tall tales, or abandoned the game years ago due to boredom and frustration with the growing number of bugs and irritating pirates, only to come back 3 years later to see if the game got any better (it barely did bug-wise lol) and find out that after 2.5 years of dormancy on the arc; 2 new world events related to the arc appeared, 1 gets taken away as Golden Sands Outpost got bombed, people fought for the restoration of that island, Merrick fought the Shrouded Ghost and later died only to never return, and find out that the story from Heart of Fire continued in a 2 week event that is probably going to be a sailing simulator (evidence: Shrouded Islands, Forsaken Hunter), what are you supposed to do about that?
Heart of Fire ended on a pseudo cliffhanger as we were waiting to see what would become of Stitcher Jim after he was made a part of the ritual to be an Ashen Lord. We were hoping we'd have a tall tale dedicated to fighting him as an Ashen Lord (cause let's be honest, we were gonna kick his butt anyways for the numerous bad deeds he's done up to this point, and siding with and aiding in the release of Flameheart's soul, as well trapping a crew's souls into a Chest of Rage as part of a ritual), this on the other hand, continues the lore but leaves a massive cutoff for those joining in too late while still having access to the previous tales, even if we're not fighting Jim for this Adventure, a followup like this deserves to be permanent, or at least, can be learned easily in-game for newcomers reaching that point with the tall tales.
Lore, as significant as this with an easy-to-follow plot establishment, should not be a "oh bro, you should have been there" kind of experience.
Sure, Merfolk's Lullaby, talking to veteran players, and looking up the SoT Wiki are options for those late, but that's not engaging lore in the slightest, that's why there's so much push back about this being a time limited event, it's a followup you only get to physically experience for 2 weeks and it gets thrown into the vault for the rest of the game's lifespan, which is not fair to those in the future. This would be the first major moment that Adventures, story wise, are put to massive criticism, and I have to wonder what will the devs say about this.
@nex-stargaze said in Remove "The Seabound Soul" & "Heart of Fire" tall tales:
@tre-oni Time limited content in a live service game is to be expected. I think most of us can get down with the idea. But answer me this: How are you going to get context on current lore as a new/returning player?
Same way anyone will ever get context regarding Duke, or Jim pre-HoF, or Wanda, Salty, or literally anything else that has happened since year 1 that didn't get it's entire context dropped into a TT you could go back to forever.
We get journals, we get trailers, we get in game effects of what went on, we get tons of people who were there who can tell the stories.. if you miss it, you're still pretty able to piece together past events pretty well, and educate yourself on the history.. just like we were doing, and still do as players with things that transpired before we were in the SoT.
When we make our way to fighting the Dark Brethren are we going to complain on behalf of everyone that they should somehow be able to experience Duke when he was a friendly dude hanging out in the taverns, so that they can truly appreciate the setting, and the significance of him? Because it's been like 4 years, so new people wont understand the impact? That's just not the game we're playing. It isn't feasible to make everything accessible always, and still have an evolving world.
It's part of the charm, part of the mystery, and part of what makes the SoT feel alive and evolving. Sometimes.. if you want engaging lore... you have to actually engage with it while its becoming the lore. In universe, this is an active situation, and it'll be an ongoing story with developments. We're currently existing literally in the middle of the lore. Kind of downplays the whole evolving, living world concept when its stapled to the map for all eternity
These adventures go on for 2-3 weeks and take like.. a half hour at best. Rare isn't asking anyone to put their lives on hold to follow the premise.
Duke's status was beloved, but had little weight to it because his significance in-game was selling exclusive time limited items and offering his take on certain events going on, let alone creating some of them himself.
Jim pre-HoF also had little weight to his own involvement in things, because those events didn't leave that much of an imprint of his influence, nor has it become a point of discussion because the situations were building up to events people not attached to the lore will enjoy without context. Case in point: Reaper's Hideout and Fort of the Damned had Jim involved, but outside of a table of relics at FotD or him appearing at the construction of the Hideout before the Masked Stranger and Servant of the Flame showed up, his involvement and relevance was little to none.
Salty is now a voiced skeleton bird that people who don't care about tall tales don't want to hear, and for tall talers is slightly ear grating to hear exposition from. His involvement with previous events went mostly irrelevant past the event itself, besides an apron of his that can be found in Wanda's Hideout.
Any other character that was seen as "important" was only important to lore-heads outside of tall tales. With tall tales being permanent stories (albeit out-dating itself as the world keeps changing), you can get some context on these characters, how they were before or as events transpired, but they were mostly stuck to the context of the tall tale itself. People didn't know or care enough about Merrick post-Hunter's Call's introduction until he was remotely involved in 4 different Adventures that took him away from the sea post, disrupting Hunter's Call grinders and commendation hunters from turning in fish and Treacherous Plunder nearby Plunder Outpost.
The issue with Herald of the Flame is that it is on the level of getting the last book of a trilogy novel as a part of time-limited release window. We have the 2 previous chapters that connect each other toward this particular event, the continuation, to something already permanent, is now temporary. That's how much of an attachment these previous two tall tales were, The Ashen Age arc is incomplete, and arguably will still incomplete following this adventure. as there seems to be an inevitable ritual to resurrect Flameheart. This adventure is going to have the same impact as the other live events, and not be as relevant later down the road for people starting to get interested in the lore much later than this Adventure. That's how impactful the choice of this being an Adventure is affecting the Ashen Age tall tales, people can still experience that physically, in 4 weeks from now they won't be able to experience this outside of watching a video or being given a terrible abridging by someone that just wants to kill pirates every time they sail.
@pithyrumble Not an unreasonable assertion. I'd argue that even now this topic could be brought up or discussed in a thesis on how effective of a storytelling tool this is in an interactive medium.
I think it is about as videogamey as you can get with storytelling in the modern sense, as to how it's giving an arbitrary time limit on something that should push a narrative forward in some kind of meaningful way. A time limit isn't all that new, as there was Dead Rising who did the same thing, though that is a game where if you miss something you can always start fresh or reload a different save game. With Sea of Thieves that isn't an option, you miss out on this story bit, you'll miss it forever, and it is rather jarring then when you have NPCs refer to you in such a way as if you were part of that story (Heck, I didn't do any of the prior adventures and the Pirate Legend lady and I pretty much talked like we knew each other, and I have no idea who she is), and it drives a disconnect with the story since you don't know these characters and yet they act like you knowneach other.
Guild Wars 2 had that problem with the first season of that Living Story thing. The characters see me as a long time friend, and yet I don't know any of them, giving me no angle to really connect with them.
What I really am not a big fan of is the way people defend this sort of trend, with arguments such as...
"This is a live service game, it should be expected" - Fair, but I would argue we as players shouldn't accept it this way, even if it should be "Expected" to happen. Destiny 2 gets plenty of criticism for essentially deleting boatloads of content that came before for the newest thing, all under the excuse of "Making space".
I can guarantee you that people wouldn't be so hyped for FFXIV if that game deleted all the MSQ leading up to the next upcoming expansion. Imagine being a new player there hearing all about how Heavensward has the best MSQ that makes people cry, only to play the game and be told "Actually they removed that because it already happened in the current timeline, sooo... Here's some current stuff". Many Lalafells would be turned into mashed potatoes if that happened.
"It is an evolving world, it would make no sense if it was something that could be replayed multiple times over" - I think players can handle the disconnect well enough without having their immersion break over something like this.
While WoW may get joked upon for having different expansion timelines merge and contradict with one another, but at the very least you can still play through those relatively painlessly.
All in all, I would say that having significant story events be time limited and then removed is a pretty poor storytelling tool. Sure you can say argue that you can then read about it on a wiki, but let's be honest, it isn't quite the same going onto a webpage to read about a story plot, as opposed to actually playing through it.
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