Ship Respawn after Sinking

I've gone on about ship respawns in detail and how close respawns negatively effect organic risk reward

after the respawn timer being universally changed to 15 seconds I think it adds one more thing to examine that imo shows that tinkering almost always leads to more imbalance for organic risk reward

I just don't have confidence in tinkering when it comes to organic risk/reward anymore.

the respawns also became less of a priority for organic risk/reward balance imo after the ferry change now that the competent crews are gonna lose their ships even less often now that they can pretty much save from every scenario against an average random pve crew.

Tinkering regularly ends up leaning towards hopping pvp and larger/more skilled crews for some reason so a tinkering on this topic would make me concerned based on the history of changes.

Imo that's probably not very intentional I think it's just a disconnect from the middle within the organic risk/reward environment and how these changes effect people outside of the social side of SoT.

I also think there is a very common lack of understanding about why people so often run and why some content gets abandoned so often and why so many avoid combat in this game which leads to a lot of doubling down and flooding through features and tinkering which can and have made things worse in my view. Specifically talking risk/reward balance through organic play/pve.

A healthy middle of the food chain creates ample opportunity for hunters and content. This is something that includes more than just flooding the game with content (which isn't a bad thing) combat needs to be healthy as well and it's very very far from healthy in the organic pve (reward) experience with pvp (risk). If ship respawns got tinkered with in a way that brought even more struggle to those that produce it would just make things worse.

@wolfmanbush
To clarify, I'm talking about ship respawning, not player respawning. I think player respawning is outside the scope of my feedback post.

As of right now, when a "losing" crew's ship has been sunk and respawns, they assume little to no risk when re-engaging the "winning" crew in PvP. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If the "winning" crew was pursuing a PvE objective, they now have no choice other than to abandon their objective, sell anything they may have earned and change servers; otherwise a determined crew will repeatedly attack them. This is especially problematic when pursuing objectives that are very time consuming (i.e. the legacy Athena's voyage).

If the "losing" crew is determined enough, and has the free time to do so, they can continue to harass the other players. What I'm suggesting would add risk to re-engaging another player ship.

@troubadour5192 said in Ship Respawn after Sinking:

@wolfmanbush
To clarify, I'm talking about ship respawning, not player respawning. I think player respawning is outside the scope of my feedback post.

As of right now, when a "losing" crew's ship has been sunk and respawns, they assume little to no risk when re-engaging the "winning" crew in PvP. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If the "winning" crew was pursuing a PvE objective, they now have no choice other than to abandon their objective, sell anything they may have earned and change servers; otherwise a determined crew will repeatedly attack them. This is especially problematic when pursuing objectives that are very time consuming (i.e. the legacy Athena's voyage).

If the "losing" crew is determined enough, and has the free time to do so, they can continue to harass the other players. What I'm suggesting would add risk to re-engaging another player ship.

I agree and have made many similar posts.

The reason my post is relevant is for two reasons.

1. It all ties together in an organic risk reward environment. If multiple things are unbalanced for risk reward and lead to more running and less production it needs to be examined as a whole to make sure we are addressing the true causes of why something is happening and not just approaching it as if one thing will change enough to balance the environment. Ship respawning is but one piece of many pieces that are leading to the same effect. To repair the damaging effect all the major pieces need to be addressed at the same time or near the same time to have a real positive effect.

2. If there is a history of harm to an organic experience doing nothing is less damaging than doing something that may amplify the harm. Imo there is a history of tinkering going in the more damaging direction so it may get tinkered with to become worse.

There have been almost no changes in recent history that benefit pvers from a combat/risk perspective. Flooding gold doesn't actually balance anything it's just giving people an ice cream cone as a distraction so they keep producing. Until there is consistency with looking out for the food chain from an angle outside of content creation and quick action I think it's quite relevant to support no new tinkering until other features and other tinkering is addressed in a way that builds confidence for risk/reward balance for the organic experience.

In order for the middle to support world events and emissaries and higher risk activity with decent loot production they need to be able to trust in balance that protects their style and their efforts. There really are no indicators that it's balanced or acknowledged.

Mid risk/mid reward is fine now. That's healthy. Great voyages, sea forts are awesome, underwater stuff is great.

Moving up the food chain from sea forts and voyages doesn't make much sense anymore and that's a problem for retention, longevity, and the organic experience for all due to the lack of activity.

@burnbacon said in Ship Respawn after Sinking:

Sank a crew 4 times while attempting a FoF. > These battles took place over 2 hours. We eventually ran out of time and had to quit completing the FoF.

There it is. Always FoF players or FotD, both high ranking forts with good enough loot and place to encounter pvp

And people who started it, upset over having to fight other ships. Regardless if they sunk them or not. Just shows, you need to hurry up and finish the fort

Have you tried. Idk, sailing your ship away from the fort to confront them, leaving one person to finish the fort so you do two things at once?

This is just 1 example you're cherrypicking... and yes I think we did everything you mentioned.

It doesn't make it any less annoying and any less rewarding to those who just have more time to play. That's my point. Why does it matter what content was being performed when this was encountered? There have been more instances than just FoF.

You guys can post helpful tips for clearing FoF all you want, but I'd like to stay on topic.

It's incredibly irritating to attempt to clear ANY content and be constantly contested by a single crew! Having a single crew, with nothing to lose, attack you repeatedly, is frustrating to say the least.

Would it be helpful to view this from the other side of the argument? After you've lost your ship, is there still a point for you to remain on the server? I could see wanting to get revenge or redemption... in that case a limited number of respawns on a server would allow for this. But sinking the same crew 4 times with no penalty to them is a bit excessive.

Well, the game has turned into a bit of a toxic cesspool and I'm not really sure why I expected the forums to be any different, and I'm not going to acknowledge those replies anymore. Just know that being childish will not help defend your position. If you have a legitimate position to hold against my core complaint, I would like to hear it!

The complaint is this: There's no risk for a crew who lost their ship which allows them to harass other players repeatedly on the server.

@like-500-ninjas said in Ship Respawn after Sinking:

@troubadour5192 said in Ship Respawn after Sinking:

Well, the game has turned into a bit of a toxic cesspool and I'm not really sure why I expected the forums to be any different, and I'm not going to acknowledge those replies anymore. Just know that being childish will not help defend your position. If you have a legitimate position to hold against my core complaint, I would like to hear it!

The complaint is this: There's no risk for a crew who lost their ship which allows them to harass other players repeatedly on the server.

Agreed on the first part. However, as has been stated ad nauseam, the loot isn't yours until you turn it in. You can't ask for others to be handicapped to make your life easier.

Whether you sink 1 ship, or 200, or none, you do what needs to be done to get to the outpost and sell. If you aren't up for defending your loot, as many times as it takes, then you don't deserve it.

Ad nauseam is probably the correct way I feel about it at this point. I'm not worried about defending my loot. As I've stated multiple times, it's how long I have to defend the loot for that's frustrating. I'm not asking for anyone to be handicapped; I'm asking for an opportunity to complete an objective after I've successfully defended my ship.

If we're going to have a CoD style experience where it's just people respawning and fighting eachother with no objective, at least give us a scoreboard so I can track my k/d on the server.

I can see my point is not going to be made here, so I'm going to stop replying to this post. Thank you to those who gave a level headed reply.

If you sink and i will be in your place i won't be sad
simple
If they chase you, run against the wind. If they stop, go back to them and send 1 over to shoot with island cannons.
If they board you kill them and come behind them and go over.
Kill them once again, take their supplies, get on your boat and end them.