Reapers penalties

  • Can we please add a system that punishes running reapers? Like if you are a level 1 reaper that runs you get no penalty but the more levels you gain you get a multiplayer that starts taking gold away. I'm sick of all the pve reapers that cry about having to pvp as a pvp emissary.

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  • they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

  • That would mean to limit their choice of tactics in handling a situation. SOT is about freedom of choice, not arbitrary punishment for playing the game.

  • @ivgotkrabs

    Rare's main design philosophy is "tools, not rules".

    To build on what @WolfManbush said: no one is obligated to fight anyone in Sea of Thieves. This may mean that you get upset because the other players don't conform to what you believe the game should be, but as long as they aren't cheating or exploiting the game, whatever the other player's doing is ultimately fair game.

  • @limbicfanatic said in Reapers penalties:

    @ivgotkrabs

    Rare's main design philosophy is "tools, not rules".

    To build on what @WolfManbush said: no one is obligated to fight anyone in Sea of Thieves. This may mean that you get upset because the other players don't conform to what you believe the game should be, but as long as they aren't cheating or exploiting the game, whatever the other player's doing is ultimately fair game.

    what about those reapers that use the shroudbreaker to run away into the red sea? thats exploiting no?

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    @limbicfanatic said in Reapers penalties:

    @ivgotkrabs

    Rare's main design philosophy is "tools, not rules".

    To build on what @WolfManbush said: no one is obligated to fight anyone in Sea of Thieves. This may mean that you get upset because the other players don't conform to what you believe the game should be, but as long as they aren't cheating or exploiting the game, whatever the other player's doing is ultimately fair game.

    what about those reapers that use the shroudbreaker to run away into the red sea? thats exploiting no?

    Personally I consider that more like people putting stuff on anchors. A trick strategy and not an exploit as it's not actually circumventing the design of something

    People are free to go out there for any reason they want imo

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    what about those reapers that use the shroudbreaker to run away into the red sea? thats exploiting no?

    Nope. It may fall somewhere on the poor sportsmanship spectrum (though not nearly so bad as things like trashtalking), but it's not an exploit.

    An exploit would be something like silent boarding, bucket-canceling, wall-banging, or the double-gun macro that allowed you to rapid fire two shots. Basically, anything that Rare did not intend, but still exists as a result of how it the game was coded, is an exploit.

  • A common misconception. There is no PvP emissary/faction outside of arena.

    What you are referring to is a faction meant to hunt other emissary ships as the risk portion of the risk/reward emissary system. They don’t need to engage any ship with no emissary flag or a ship that pops up a reaper 1 and runs at them.

  • Can we please add a system that punishes running reapers

    If you punish one. You must punish all

    And nobody will like the punishment for running away to “save” there loot.

    Sometimes they might not have resources to even fight back. Should you be punished for fighting someone unarmed?

  • No one is entitled to combat or loot.

    If they want to run, they can run. They don't have to fight.

  • I could make a joke about how this topic sounds familiar to something I have seen/posted on the forums before but at the same time I can't muster up anything clever to say.

    Try a better tactic, or find a more worthy target if you want to be rewarded for stealing treasure from pirates.

  • @limbicfanatic said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    what about those reapers that use the shroudbreaker to run away into the red sea? thats exploiting no?

    Nope. It may fall somewhere on the poor sportsmanship spectrum (though not nearly so bad as things like trashtalking), but it's not an exploit.

    An exploit would be something like silent boarding, bucket-canceling, wall-banging, or the double-gun macro that allowed you to rapid fire two shots. Basically, anything that Rare did not intend, but still exists as a result of how it the game was coded, is an exploit.

    but I'm pretty sure its not intended to use a voyage item as a means of escape, its using the item out of the context its designed for and getting an out of jail card, imo its exploiting, same as using the PotC portals to server hop to escape from others.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    but I'm pretty sure its not intended to use a voyage item as a means of escape, its using the item out of the context its designed for and getting an out of jail card, imo its exploiting, same as using the PotC portals to server hop to escape from others.

    Dear lord you people.

    Shores of Gold's Shroudbreaker being used to escape is NOT an exploit, using the Tunnels of the Damned to escape an opponent is NOT an exploit (and this one is being observed by Rare, so it's in the game, for now). It's a game of tools, not rules. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean other people won't do it either.

  • Putting in an explicit punishment to those who run away doesn't seem feasible, nor the best solution to the problem. I'm not sure how the game would even accurately detect when a crew is running considering I've gotten things like the racing commendation accidentally from naval battles.

    What the game should instead do is add more incentives for pirates to fight instead of run. It's often the case that the aggressors don't have anything but supplies, while the runners have all the loot- and to make matters worse oftentimes the reaper you should truly fear is the level 1 that just spawned in, not the level 5 whose flag is actually valuable.

  • @ivgotkrabs Tools not Rules

  • @moogbeard make it so reapers can't alliances and any ship thats in firing distance of that reaper should start the penalty system

  • @nex-stargaze said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    but I'm pretty sure its not intended to use a voyage item as a means of escape, its using the item out of the context its designed for and getting an out of jail card, imo its exploiting, same as using the PotC portals to server hop to escape from others.

    Dear lord you people.

    Shores of Gold's Shroudbreaker being used to escape is NOT an exploit, using the Tunnels of the Damned to escape an opponent is NOT an exploit (and this one is being observed by Rare, so it's in the game, for now). It's a game of tools, not rules. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean other people won't do it either.

    so you are saying everyone playing should pick up the shroudbreaker not to do the voyage but to abuse its mechanic and get advantages over those not carrying it?

    lol I would love to know what you DO consider exploits.

  • @amybun Consider the logic of the first few people that are likely in a scenario they don't want to be in.

    "There are some mean pirates coming to kill us!"
    "We could start that tall tale that takes us to an island other people can't easily get to."
    "Okay, let's do it!"

    In a game of tools, not rules, anyone can do anything within their power to gain a minor advantage for their own benefit, and against a powerful/incapable foe. Rare are perfectly aware that players with access to the Shores of Gold Tall Tale and it's later added checkpoint can use this to escape an enemy.

    The justification for this, is that even if the runners have loot on board, the enemy can and arguably should also have the same checkpoint ready. If they don't, they lose out on treasure to feasibly steal within their grasp. Just like how crews that fail to watch the horizon until it's too late and get bombarded by a galleon crew's brutal broadside can happen, this same-server instance of retreating to an area that is in some technicality "off-map" only results in a lost catch if the crew chasing isn't prepared to explore the entire map.

    Now with portals escaping into them is more of an easier explanation as you will lost any loot and a copy of your emissary flag as you go away from the server. It's not exploitable in these instances because Rare finds these fair game enough that challenge a crew's experience via the tools they allow you to use.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    so you are saying everyone playing should pick up the shroudbreaker not to do the voyage but to abuse its mechanic and get advantages over those not carrying it?

    lol I would love to know what you DO consider exploits.

    if someone were to find an exploit to use the shroudbreaker to survive in the red sea outside of the shores of gold area that would be an exploit

    just like if the game did not allow items to be placed on the anchor and someone figured out an exploit to allow it that would be an exploit

    Cleverness and environmental strategy isn't exploiting.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    so you are saying everyone playing should pick up the shroudbreaker not to do the voyage but to abuse its mechanic and get advantages over those not carrying it?

    lol I would love to know what you DO consider exploits.

    if someone were to find an exploit to use the shroudbreaker to survive in the red sea outside of the shores of gold area that would be an exploit

    just like if the game did not allow items to be placed on the anchor and someone figured out an exploit to allow it that would be an exploit

    Cleverness and environmental strategy isn't exploiting.

    The definition for exploiting is

    "to use something in a way that helps you"

    and

    "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    using the shroudbreaker outside of the telltale is gaining an unfair advantage over others, therefore by official definition its an exploit as its not an intentional game design, Rare overlooked how abuseable it can be outside of the telltale and its something they just can't fix now. I am confident Rare did not intend for players pvping to have to carry a shroudbreaker or be put at a disadvantage that is nonsense.

    Not every exploit is a bug, anything that is overlooked by the developers that the players find gains an advantage over those that don't know about it, is exploiting.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    so you are saying everyone playing should pick up the shroudbreaker not to do the voyage but to abuse its mechanic and get advantages over those not carrying it?

    lol I would love to know what you DO consider exploits.

    if someone were to find an exploit to use the shroudbreaker to survive in the red sea outside of the shores of gold area that would be an exploit

    just like if the game did not allow items to be placed on the anchor and someone figured out an exploit to allow it that would be an exploit

    Cleverness and environmental strategy isn't exploiting.

    The definition for exploiting is

    "to use something in a way that helps you"

    and

    "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    using the shroudbreaker outside of the telltale is gaining an unfair advantage over others, therefore by official definition its an exploit as its not an intentional game design, Rare overlooked how abuseable it can be outside of the telltale and its something they just can't fix now. I am confident Rare did not intend for players pvping to have to carry a shroudbreaker or be put at a disadvantage that is nonsense.

    Not every exploit is a bug, anything that is overlooked by the developers that the players find gains an advantage over those that don't know about it, is exploiting.

    People can't sell over there.

    If they reached that area and that area didn't exist they would just red sea it. They already reached it so the other team already lost that race.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    @nex-stargaze said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    but I'm pretty sure its not intended to use a voyage item as a means of escape, its using the item out of the context its designed for and getting an out of jail card, imo its exploiting, same as using the PotC portals to server hop to escape from others.

    Dear lord you people.

    Shores of Gold's Shroudbreaker being used to escape is NOT an exploit, using the Tunnels of the Damned to escape an opponent is NOT an exploit (and this one is being observed by Rare, so it's in the game, for now). It's a game of tools, not rules. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean other people won't do it either.

    so you are saying everyone playing should pick up the shroudbreaker not to do the voyage but to abuse its mechanic and get advantages over those not carrying it?

    lol I would love to know what you DO consider exploits.

    Silent boarding, certain aspects or glitches with the double gun, unlimited HP glitch, actual spawn camping, certain kinds of unofficial boarding methods, before they patched it the cargo Morrow's peak cheese, any types of cheesing.

    Things like that are exploits.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    The definition for exploiting is

    "to use something in a way that helps you"

    and

    "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    Maybe in the dictionary.

    In a gaming context, "exploit" specifically refers to using bugs or quirks of game mechanics to perform actions that unbalance game design and were not intended by the devs.

    The important part being "bugs/quirks" and "not intended".

    Using the Shroudbreaker is not a bug or "unintended feature" - it does what the devs intended it to do.

  • When they first announced TT checkpoints I immediately planned on getting that specific checkpoint. People blab on about honorable fighting but that's how you get sunk. Most times when I pull my shroudbreaker so does the pursuit ship. It's not an issue and neither is a Reaper playing peaceful. People just getting butthurt they didn't get to sink someone.

  • @gravesilence272 said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    The definition for exploiting is

    "to use something in a way that helps you"

    and

    "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    Maybe in the dictionary.

    In a gaming context, "exploit" specifically refers to using bugs or quirks of game mechanics to perform actions that unbalance game design and were not intended by the devs.

    The important part being "bugs/quirks" and "not intended".

    Using the Shroudbreaker is not a bug or "unintended feature" - it does what the devs intended it to do.

    its an item intended to be used for a story voyage, not an escape mechanic to be used outside of doing the voyage. I really do hope Rare chime in and confirm they intended to add this escape mechanic to the game when they added shores of gold, until they confirm it I'm standing firm on saying its exploiting.

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    its an item intended to be used for a story voyage, not an escape mechanic to be used outside of doing the voyage.

    It's both.

    The Rare devs don't owe you a direct answer of the obvious. You're gravely insulting them by implying they didn't consider this usage, and you think they owe you an explicit statement about the bloody obvious in return? Hubris.

    It's an open world game, and they deliberately made it so you can use the Shroudbreaker whenever - on a public server. They'd literally have to be the dumbest games devs on the planet to fail to see the direct consequences of a feature they were building on purpose.

    No. No devs making a game as good as Sea of Thieves would fail to consider such an obvious usage, nor would players fail to see it during various stages of testing - ergo: they clearly intended to allow such usage.

    They sure as **** don't owe anybody who can't see that for themselves an explicit statement though, especially not people insulting their game dev skills.

  • @gravesilence272 said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    its an item intended to be used for a story voyage, not an escape mechanic to be used outside of doing the voyage.

    It's both.

    The Rare devs don't owe you a direct answer of the obvious. You're gravely insulting them by implying they didn't consider this usage, and you think they owe you an explicit statement about the bloody obvious in return? Hubris.

    It's an open world game, and they deliberately made it so you can use the Shroudbreaker whenever - on a public server. They'd literally have to be the dumbest games devs on the planet to fail to see the direct consequences of a feature they were building on purpose.

    No. No devs making a game as good as Sea of Thieves would fail to consider such an obvious usage, nor would players fail to see it during various stages of testing - ergo: they clearly intended to allow such usage.

    They sure as **** don't owe anybody who can't see that for themselves an explicit statement though, especially not people insulting their game dev skills.

    Exactly where did I "gravely insult" the devs?

    and if its obvious, I wouldn't be asking for confirmation its intended would I? think for a moment before replying next time.

  • @amybun sagte in Reapers penalties:

    @limbicfanatic said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    what about those reapers that use the shroudbreaker to run away into the red sea? thats exploiting no?

    Nope. It may fall somewhere on the poor sportsmanship spectrum (though not nearly so bad as things like trashtalking), but it's not an exploit.

    An exploit would be something like silent boarding, bucket-canceling, wall-banging, or the double-gun macro that allowed you to rapid fire two shots. Basically, anything that Rare did not intend, but still exists as a result of how it the game was coded, is an exploit.

    but I'm pretty sure its not intended to use a voyage item as a means of escape, its using the item out of the context its designed for and getting an out of jail card, imo its exploiting, same as using the PotC portals to server hop to escape from others.

    Just that portal server hop to escape isn't a good idea...you keep your flag, yes, but you lose all your treasure and you lose all voyages in your radial...I see no real benefit in running away trough the portal

  • @amybun don't you think, your answer has been given out already by letting the shroudbreaker in the game for anybody everytime to use since over 2,5 years?

  • @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    @gravesilence272 said in Reapers penalties:

    @amybun said in Reapers penalties:

    The definition for exploiting is

    "to use something in a way that helps you"

    and

    "to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage"

    Maybe in the dictionary.

    In a gaming context, "exploit" specifically refers to using bugs or quirks of game mechanics to perform actions that unbalance game design and were not intended by the devs.

    The important part being "bugs/quirks" and "not intended".

    Using the Shroudbreaker is not a bug or "unintended feature" - it does what the devs intended it to do.

    its an item intended to be used for a story voyage, not an escape mechanic to be used outside of doing the voyage. I really do hope Rare chime in and confirm they intended to add this escape mechanic to the game when they added shores of gold, until they confirm it I'm standing firm on saying its exploiting.

    It's an item intended to let you break the shroud to reach the Shores of Gold island. A tool. For anybody to use who as access to that tall tale. Chasee or chaser.

    As far as a reply directly from Rare, those are few and far between on any topic unless it is a huge concern (something that has been in the game for years at this point is unlikely to be)

    I fail to see an issue with the whole TT checkpoint thing anyway. Literally anyone who has access to the tale can do it (the least amount of time invested in anything with this game IMO) and requires zero skill what so ever to do beyond using your brain for 2 seconds. The issue now is that it is so widely known that 99% of the time, the chaser crew will be ready for it unless they are new to the game. When this was in it's infancy, it was great to use in either side of this scenario (as I usually found myself using it for both ends as a solo main)

    I find it a MUCH greater issue with regards to blatant red sea running to delete loot, but since portals became a thing I feel it's balanced.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

    Im pretty sure the OP knows how the reaper emissary works right now and thats why he made the suggestion to change it. It sounds like you didnt really consider his idea at all.

    Not saying that i agree with him but i would like to see reapers being more encouraged to pvp.

  • @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

    Im pretty sure the OP knows how the reaper emissary works right now and thats why he made the suggestion to change it. It sounds like you didnt really consider his idea at all.

    Not saying that i agree with him but i would like to see reapers being more encouraged to pvp.

    Attempting to force people by penalizing their freedoms is not encouraging anyone to do anything it's removing freedom of gameplay and interfering in a free environment

    They get to play how they want when they want just like everyone else.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

    Im pretty sure the OP knows how the reaper emissary works right now and thats why he made the suggestion to change it. It sounds like you didnt really consider his idea at all.

    Not saying that i agree with him but i would like to see reapers being more encouraged to pvp.

    Attempting to force people by penalizing their freedoms is not encouraging anyone to do anything it's removing freedom of gameplay and interfering in a free environment

    Well i think that was his idea. To limit the emissary in a way that only the people who want to PvP would raise it.

    Which i do believe was the original vision for that faction, especially evident when talking with the servant of the flame at the hideout.

  • @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

    Im pretty sure the OP knows how the reaper emissary works right now and thats why he made the suggestion to change it. It sounds like you didnt really consider his idea at all.

    Not saying that i agree with him but i would like to see reapers being more encouraged to pvp.

    Attempting to force people by penalizing their freedoms is not encouraging anyone to do anything it's removing freedom of gameplay and interfering in a free environment

    Well i think that was his idea. To limit the emissary in a way that only the people who want to PvP would raise it.

    Which i do believe was the original vision for that faction, especially evident when talking with the servant of the flame at the hideout.

    It's a high danger high reward faction that can be used for whatever people want to use it for. Most people are pve/pvpers some just lean one way more than another and that's entirely up to them to choose.

    Trying to push out pve and less hostile players from reapers not only removes freedom of gameplay it kills the faction. The faction only survives and thrives because of pvers using it. Trying to interfere and control it makes it a worthless faction because it kills activity. Less reaper activity is less activity for the server and leads to less loot production

    The flag chasing incentive is optional. Since there is no guarantee a server will even have activity on it that makes pushing reapers to pvp unsustainable

  • @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    @alienmagi said in Reapers penalties:

    @wolfmanbush said in Reapers penalties:

    they have no obligations so they have done nothing to warrant consequences or interference

    they subject themselves to higher danger for more reward they didn't obligate themselves to fight anyone

    and there is no high ground here. People can load into a server they have all the supplies they need before leaving the dock and can pop a 5 reaper before they get to the only place they can sell for a bonus. This happens every single day and there is nothing for a reaper to gain by fighting these people.

    If they run they run, that's their freedom to choose

    Im pretty sure the OP knows how the reaper emissary works right now and thats why he made the suggestion to change it. It sounds like you didnt really consider his idea at all.

    Not saying that i agree with him but i would like to see reapers being more encouraged to pvp.

    Attempting to force people by penalizing their freedoms is not encouraging anyone to do anything it's removing freedom of gameplay and interfering in a free environment

    Well i think that was his idea. To limit the emissary in a way that only the people who want to PvP would raise it.

    Which i do believe was the original vision for that faction, especially evident when talking with the servant of the flame at the hideout.

    It's a high danger high reward faction that can be used for whatever people want to use it for. Most people are pve/pvpers some just lean one way more than another and that's entirely up to them to choose.

    Trying to push out pve and less hostile players from reapers not only removes freedom of gameplay it kills the faction. The faction only survives and thrives because of pvers using it. Trying to interfere and control it makes it a worthless faction because it kills activity. Less reaper activity is less activity for the server and leads to less loot production

    I couldnt disagree more. At least 90% of reapers in my vast amount of gameplay time were ready and looking to pvp. Including myself and my regular crewmates and with loot on board. I just dont see how you came to this conclusion.

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