Red Sea Re-work

@jaegerdelta3465

attack and chase are only normal if you fail at attacking. you can chase someone down from a distance to get in range to attack, like if you see an emissary or moving reapers chest on your map. But, if you attack and then chase you messed up. continuing to mindlessly chase until someone just doesn't want to deal with you following them anymore is continuing to mess up. work on your tactics, the person that drove that loot into the red sea is you.

Why do you continue to talk about skill-based decisions? The situation is much more simple.

Dosn't matter if the attackers charged in as a raging rhino, or if they chased for 12 hours before being able to corner the fleeing ship. The problem is the fleeing ship has an unnatural-to-SoT opportunity to one-sidedly decide if they want to despawn the loot after failing to escape. That's where the balance fails to exist.

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

Why do you continue to talk about skill-based decisions? The situation is much more simple.

Dosn't matter if the attackers charged in as a raging rhino, or if they chased for 12 hours before being able to corner the fleeing ship. The problem is the fleeing ship has an unnatural-to-SoT opportunity to one-sidedly decide if they want to despawn the loot after failing to escape. That's where the balance fails to exist.

if a ship is fleeing. they didnt fail to escape. they escaped. the sea of thieves is surrounded by a shroud of mist. its not a hard wall. you cant corner people. work on your tactics and prevent them from escaping.

@jaegerdelta3465 said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

Why do you continue to talk about skill-based decisions? The situation is much more simple.

Dosn't matter if the attackers charged in as a raging rhino, or if they chased for 12 hours before being able to corner the fleeing ship. The problem is the fleeing ship has an unnatural-to-SoT opportunity to one-sidedly decide if they want to despawn the loot after failing to escape. That's where the balance fails to exist.

if a ship is fleeing. they didnt fail to escape. they escaped. the sea of thieves is surrounded by a shroud of mist. its not a hard wall. you cant corner people. work on your tactics and prevent them from escaping.

ok.

@drizkillz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz Just because you're not having fun, doesn't mean they aren't 👍

Totally off-topic, but thanks for sharing. I guess.

@william-flint said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz you keep harping about how unfair it is that a crew gets to one sidedly decide what happens with their loot, but the fact remains that you get to one sidedly decide to force them into a pvp encounter. There is nothing "unnatural to the game" or "unbalanced" about it.

Forcing somebody into PvP encounters is natural to a PvEvP type of game, so I don't understand why you bring this up. But the fact is, that when I decide to force somebody into PvP they do have plenty of options to choose from, some of which include: fighting, running, or both; running for sports; throwing the loot overboard; kite through different obstacles and/or encounters; run up to another ship and ask for alliance; and much more.

But what options do I have when this crew decides to despawn the loot at the edge of red sea? That's right - none.

You get to force the encounter on them, they get to take their ball and go home if they don't like the game.

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from. Yes, this is indeed unnatural to SoT, as well as unbalanced.

I don't care how elite of a swordsman/double gunner/cannoneer you think you are, if you didn't catch them you either had a flaw in your approach strategy or never had a chance to catch them.

For the N-th time: the point is not in any way connected to skill, approach or execution. Not for the attackers, nor for the runners.
I'm simply trying to display that it is indeed unbalanced to just say "ok let's despawn the loot" at any point you desire, and do it while the only thing your opponents can do is simply watch.

I think at the end of the day what most here are really saying is that forcing someone to fight amd then whining and crying foul when they escape is a bad look.

Quite childish, but you do have the right of your own opinion.

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@william-flint said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz you keep harping
But what options do I have when this crew decides to despawn the loot at the edge of red sea? That's right - none.

You get to force the encounter on them, they get to take their ball and go home if they don't like the game.

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from. Yes, this is indeed unnatural to SoT, as well as unbalanced.

It’s almost like you chose to engage and the chase. It’s almost like at any time you could have stopped chasing.

Yes a crew does get to deny you loot because you did not earn it. Figure out a way to get on them better if you want to earn it.

If someone sees me and runs, that’s on me for choosing a poor engagement strategy.

Finally in terms of balance, this is literally perfect. Engaging team has lost nothing and running team has lost potential loot. The engaging team had no risk to engage and came out the same meanwhile the chased team sacrificed their potential.

This problem can be solved once you become a better engaging team.

@youbrokentrojan

You completely failed to comprehend the very thing you quoted:

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from.

I've written enough about this already. There's no strategies, skill, or whatever else involved, just as there is no point to continue repeating the same thing over and over, if you are just going to keep ignoring the actual problem.

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan

You completely failed to comprehend the very thing you quoted:

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from.

I've written enough about this already, no point to continue.

What about your option to disengage and stalk them for a better opportunity? What about you opportunity to have engaged better? What about your opportunity to not chase them?

You had options, you just played poorly. Don’t pretend your only option was to engage poorly and chase someone who was outrunning you into the Red Sea.

Again, this is lack of skill on the engaging team and not an imbalance in the game. If you need tips on how to improve, I will be happy to help.

@youbrokentrojan said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan

You completely failed to comprehend the very thing you quoted:

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from.

I've written enough about this already, no point to continue.

What about your option to disengage and stalk them for a better opportunity? What about you opportunity to have engaged better? What about your opportunity to not chase them?

You had options, you just played poorly. Don’t pretend your only option was to engage poorly and chase someone who was outrunning you into the Red Sea.

Again, this is lack of skill on the engaging team and not an imbalance in the game. If you need tips on how to improve, I will be happy to help.

Once again, not talking about skill here buddy. Doesn't matter who and how. Doesn't matter if the engage was good or poor. Doesn't matter if the runners ran for 10 minutes or 10 hours. Fact is, runners have a "trump card" which they can play at any point they desire, and which cannot be countered in any way.

Anything runners can do can be countered. If they drop loot in the water we can pick it up. If they simply kite in red sea or shores of gold we can wait them out. If they kite they can be outmaneuvered. If they manage their wind poorly they can be cought. LITERALLY EVERYTHING they can do, can be countered, except 1 single thing.

And by the way, I don't know why you refer to me personally. I don't have a personal problem with people who despawn loot. For me, the fact that they lost to my ship is rewarding enough. But even I am able to realize that this "move" is unbalanced.

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan

You completely failed to comprehend the very thing you quoted:

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from.

I've written enough about this already, no point to continue.

What about your option to disengage and stalk them for a better opportunity? What about you opportunity to have engaged better? What about your opportunity to not chase them?

You had options, you just played poorly. Don’t pretend your only option was to engage poorly and chase someone who was outrunning you into the Red Sea.

Again, this is lack of skill on the engaging team and not an imbalance in the game. If you need tips on how to improve, I will be happy to help.

Once again, not talking about skill here buddy. Doesn't matter who and how. Doesn't matter if the engage was good or poor. Doesn't matter if the runners ran for 10 minutes or 10 hours. Fact is, runners have a "trump card" which they can play at any point they desire, and which cannot be countered in any way.

Anything runners can do can be countered. If they drop loot in the water we can pick it up. If they simply kite in red sea or shores of gold we can wait them out. If they kite they can be outmaneuvered. If they manage their wind poorly they can be cought. LITERALLY EVERYTHING they can do, can be countered, except 1 single thing.

And by the way, I don't know why you refer to me personally. I don't have a personal problem with people who despawn loot. But even I see that this "move" is unbalanced.

Skill is based into every layer of this game, ignoring that might as well be ignoring every aspect to this game.

Runners “trump card” is you not knowing how to engage. The difference between engaging with the blind in a blind spot vs charging at them is a skill decision. The difference between waiting behind cover and hitting them in a predicted route is a skill set of understanding where they will come.

This is just clear you don’t understand the skill needed for the game, and as. I mentioned I will be happy to help teach you.

@youbrokentrojan said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan said in Red Sea Re-work:

@greengrimz said in Red Sea Re-work:

@youbrokentrojan

You completely failed to comprehend the very thing you quoted:

One crew is ultimately forced to face a concluded fact when put into a certain situation, while the other has plenty of options to choose from.

I've written enough about this already, no point to continue.

What about your option to disengage and stalk them for a better opportunity? What about you opportunity to have engaged better? What about your opportunity to not chase them?

You had options, you just played poorly. Don’t pretend your only option was to engage poorly and chase someone who was outrunning you into the Red Sea.

Again, this is lack of skill on the engaging team and not an imbalance in the game. If you need tips on how to improve, I will be happy to help.

Once again, not talking about skill here buddy. Doesn't matter who and how. Doesn't matter if the engage was good or poor. Doesn't matter if the runners ran for 10 minutes or 10 hours. Fact is, runners have a "trump card" which they can play at any point they desire, and which cannot be countered in any way.

Anything runners can do can be countered. If they drop loot in the water we can pick it up. If they simply kite in red sea or shores of gold we can wait them out. If they kite they can be outmaneuvered. If they manage their wind poorly they can be cought. LITERALLY EVERYTHING they can do, can be countered, except 1 single thing.

And by the way, I don't know why you refer to me personally. I don't have a personal problem with people who despawn loot. But even I see that this "move" is unbalanced.

Skill is based into every layer of this game, ignoring that might as well be ignoring every aspect to this game.

Runners “trump card” is you not knowing how to engage. The difference between engaging with the blind in a blind spot vs charging at them is a skill decision. The difference between waiting behind cover and hitting them in a predicted route is a skill set of understanding where they will come.

This is just clear you don’t understand the skill needed for the game, and as. I mentioned I will be happy to help teach you.

Mate, I really didn't want to turn this conversation to personal skill, but since you insist, I will tell you that skill is the last of my problems. Especially the 'managing my ship' type of skill. As I said earlier, I plundered 800 000g for 2,5 hours last night. I also plundered 500 000g in a single hit the other day. You can go and see that with your own eyes on my Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/grimminal Just look at my last 2 streams begining and end gold.

Are you able to match me up on that? Nearly a million and a half gold in just about 5 hours of gaming? Because if not, you might as well take some engaging advices from me.

Editing a continuation into my post, because I really dislike bragging:

Again, this is not about skill. Unskilled players engaging on more skilled ones, and vice versa are in fact a pretty damn common occurence in SoT. So we may safely ignore the skill part, not only because of that, but really, just because it has absolutely nothing to do with the unbalance of one crew having the option to one-sidedly decide what happens.

@greengrimz

Aww look you think I care. This isn’t about personal skill, which is impressive that given all your time you still don’t understand the basics about attack and defending in this game.

Simple fact remains: if the attacking crew made correct decisions on how to engage given all the variables, they would be able to get their target. If you did not get your target, you failed to account for something or chose the wrong time.

Breaking off, hiding, predicting routes, etc. are all variables a skilled player needs to account for. Sure it can be boring to wait 30-40 mins for the best opportunity, but the trade off a cleaner engage and increased likelihood of good loot makes it worthwhile.

Keep going if you want, I am not going to bother responding.

Well, if you want to get rid of the "Red Sea Suicide" option you should also get rid of the Disney phantoms and crawlers. This BS move by Rare has made it necessary for solo players to spend more time on each island and have to let their guard down.
Also, I have had players destroy my sloop while on an island (no loot on the sloop) and then hunt me down on the island. And for what purpose?

@youbrokentrojan

Keep going if you want, I am not going to bother responding.

Finally something we can agree on.

@alizim110 I am so happy when toxic pvp arrogants feel what their victims feel, who spend a lot of time collecting loot, so that then this most toxic pvp player can easily take away this loot, i.e. in fact - steal time.
The Red Sea is a salvation for those who can't fight. And that's fine.