Objects need a bit of interactivity and reaction to player beaviour

  • You come across an empty bottle near a table in some outpost, if you blow up a gunpowder barrel on top of it what will happed?

    a) the bottle will break
    b) the bottle will be sent flying
    c) the bottle will catch on fire
    d) the bottle wont feel too good
    e) the bottle will not move or be affected by it in any way because it is made out of adamantium diamonds made of vibranium

    if you answered anything other than "e" I need your home adress, I'm coming over with a bat

    You see one of the things that makes the world of Sea of Thieves feel less alive and organic is the little clutter in the islands that doesn't really care that you shoot it with a gun or a cannon, they don't react or care. Things feel "glued" to the world by the mystic force of [unavailable physics engine].

    My suggestion is very simple, to have the obects of the world react to you, by either breaking or moving or just generally behaving like an object realistically. Not all objects need to do this, of course, just some clutter that is scattered around, and it doesn't need to be skyrim levels of reaction where you lightly touch it and it goes flying at 600 mph. The objects of the world can just have these simple animations and once they play out the objects can vanish and respawn after the island realoads or renders itself to the players.

    And don't tell me this would be hardware intesive, the source engine is 10 years old and it could pull off basic clutter behaviour without requiring 2 gigs of ram, don't know why can't UE4 do the same with less hardware strain, are we moving backwards in technology?

    by the way, this isn't needed like it's top priority in the list of additions, rather, in 1 year from now this could probably be in the game.

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  • You and I see eye to eye on a lot of systemic issues it seems. I agree with your summary here re: why the world feels static.

    Beyond these sorts of interactive things that may require more from the physics engine. I think there needs to be more interactivity across the board.

    • It should be possible to open and close doors on ships.
    • Sloops have windows, you should be able to open and close them.
    • You should be able to sit in the captains chair.
    • You should be able to use any item while emoting (with some restrictions). For example, you should be able to sit and play music.
    • Speaking of music, the game needs more music and more instruments. It's absolutely ridiculous that there is only 1 additional track (2 if you count the legend song), on top of what was already available in the alpha.
    • Weirdly like one of the very few interactive world elements is the music box located in shops. Why isn't there more stuff like that?

    All of this stuff doesn't impact the overall game mechanics in any major way, but what it does do is add to (and significantly flesh out) the overall sandbox. Making the game more streamable, more fun to play, and increasing potential for emergent gameplay.

  • @williamherschel right on the money, old games make me very nostalgic because what they lacked in graphics and polygons, they usually went full on detail of smaller things, half life 1 for example had AI for the cockroaches that reacted to light and trash... that was gold source over 20 years ago. Yes it is meaningless stuff that doesn't affect gameplay, so people naturally think it's secondary to the current game needs, but it is arguably a very important part of a sandbox world to feel alive and organic. SoT has a lot of really nice static detail, the only things that do move are the trees, plants and animals, I hope however to see everything you listed somewhere in the future.

  • Individually hardware intensive - no.

    But it does get complicated when you have multiple people on a server. The game world needs to calculate the physics of that explosion and how it impacts the objects and then how they bounce off of things and such.

    Absolutely could be done, though.

    In fact, I was surprised and delighted to see that my sloop ploughing through a patch of supply barrels would send them spinning through the water. I did not expect it to do that.

  • The only I ask is be able to put out fire with water.

  • @guepard4 said in Objects need a bit of interactivity and reaction to player beaviour:

    The only I ask is be able to put out fire with water.

    wish I could upvote twice

  • I also wish that walking through a campfire caused damage and that placing a gunpowder keg on said fire would at least light the fuse if not ignite immediately.

    Also, shooting empty rum bottles and having them break would make for a great little mini game on Rumrunner Isle. Maybe reset them by interacting with a "case of rum"

  • There's so many factors involved in a request like this. It's not merely asking for an overhaul of a minor feature, this would require ground level work from the bottom up.

    Sure the engine and other factors already include the possibility of tracking each item and application of varied physics....

    But clearly there's more going on. Recall that simply stacking a moderate number of chicken coops and hitting them with a sword kills ping and destroys the game's brain for several seconds...

    Now multiply that by the accounting for each player on the server and everything that is in render reach of that player. A GPB in a tavern with all the decorations? That's alot of accounting on a server that can't handle 10 boxes being hit by a sword.

    Can it be done? By the gods yes.

    But that would require effort from the bottom of the game to the top... that'd detract from attention to quality of life updates, upcoming content drops, bug fixes for existing bugs, would create new bugs... don't say it wont simply handing an item to another player nearly destroyed play ability of the entire server set!

    The reason "other" or "older" games seem to handle this stuff so easily, so it would make sense SoT should be able too, should be obvious: They were developed with that in mind from the start.

    Whereas we're dealing with a company who just admitted they scrapped the entire plan for the game development post launch in favor of a new direction after launch, have already split their team into parties dedicated to the upcoming updates, have other plans that would delay this minor thing that's being asked for... or if delayed themselves would lead to slower 'content' updates.

    And as I mentioned already it'd be unrealistic to focus on that sort of addition now... because frankly, it's be a ground up measure --- unlike a 'simple' content update.

    Don't forget - it's a common belief that despite the AAA budget....this is really more of an early access year one than anything else... they're still working on stuff that would have been better served in the game at launch!

  • @urihamrayne alt text

  • @blooddoll22 in my post I especify that this shouldn`t be a priority update, I am aware oof the more content concern.

  • @blooddoll22 @WilboBaggns I agree that this would be putting more stress on the server, there is no doubt about that.

    I wonder if this could be implemented client side. Normally we want the server to be fully authoritative and the client only sends input and makes predictions to offset the affect of latency. So before we put anything client side we have to ask ourselves how it could be abused. For this, I'm coming up with a blank.

    There's the obvious issue that the items' locations/state could get out of sync but could it be abused? If so then it would absolutely have to be server sided and then we get into the issue of server performance.

  • @urihamrayne A year from now I will still not care if this ever came into the game. I want the team working on things that keep my interest and give me fun stuff to do.

    The world feels static because it is empty. There is so much "life" and detail into things.. but the same thing is empty at the same time. This isn't because of the physics.. it is simply because the team is working on other things instead of adding creative direction to the game.

    I want more voyage variety.

    I want more islands

    I want there to be more story and unique quests to do.

    I want kinks in the voyages worked out, such as the crates in merchants

    I want to customize my cosmetics on the ship better (sail and symbol color mixing)

    I want the Shipwright to allow me to change my boat size on the fly so I can change my crew size..

    I want each music item and shanty have a use in the game

    I want to hide items IN bushes, not on top of them (and/or clipping fixed on the boats)

    I want a casino or Outpost Game Night

    I want to breathe underwater (hopefully what the statues are leading toward) and a reason to dive deep underwater.

    I want all the skeleton forts to work and have a use

    I want the Cursed pirate Ships to be fixed and not stupid/op/broken (I'm already predicting issues with the AI ships lol)

    I want there to be a reward for defending a skeleton throne in a pvp king of the hill way

    I want the skeletons to actually pick up GP crates I placed in front of them

    I want more control over how populated of a server I go into within reason. If I want an easy/casual time.. maybe 6 ships.. I want intense level.. 10 ships (or max the game can handle)

    I want to be able to have dubs and the event stories give rewards (not just titles, but dubs or gold) and allow me to do them at my own pace without being rushed.

    I want the forts to be active at all times (but only have the vault/key active when the cloud is up). They shouldn't ever be dead and empty and a free pass by.. I want them to shoot at me like a random island does (in fact they used to in the alpha and beta, what happened)

    I want the bartender to give me a random/free low level quest to do.

    I want there to be a purpose to the music boxes

    I want pets to be able to be obtained without a MT.

    I just want pets in the game already

    I want to be able to keep my quests active from one session to the next.. so if I have to log out (or get kicked) I can pick up where I left off and my new crew can help me with it (ie, a reason to show them my map)

    I want Athena's missions (so when i get to PL) to be more unique and fun from what I've heard.

    I want there to be a reason to be PL

    I want 8 people on a sloop and it be balanced against 8 people on a galleon.

    I want to be able to toggle friendly fire toward other crews (hopefully not more then 2 weeks from now)

    I want the space on the ship, and the empty barrels be used for something

    I want my items to be valued by how long and far I've carried them around before turning in.

    I want to buy cages and crates.

    ......

    No where on that short list of mine.. does breakable objects come into play. And these are only the top things I can think of that probably I feel the game should have and could have launched with.

    So.. Let's save breakable objects for Sea of Thieves 2 on the next gen consoles.

  • @puck269 @xCALYPT0x A lot of people here are under the impression physics objects can be hardware intensive on a server that can hold up to 24 people in the year 2018. Keep in mind we had ridiculous servers in older gen console games with ten times the amount of clutter being flung around, are you guys ever going to stop implying that tech is going backwards?

    Objects don't even need to have physics applied to them the way most of you are thinking, a simple animation that triggers from any interaction is enough, and again I stated that its not everything from the islands that needs the become animated, only small clutter items like bottles, boxes, wood, some lanters. This can't possibly be a difficult request, and yes a year from now is a very generous eta.

  • @urihamrayne IDK man. The physics in this game aren't trivial. Deterministic water, bullet travel, cannonball travel (which is affected by wind as well I think?), barrels + treasure floating in the water. They're struggling to add more than 6 ships to a server. IMO it's the water that makes everything difficult because it adds a lot more calculations to the update loop.

    But a simple animation would work well.

  • 90% of the s**t in GTA doesn’t react when you shoot it or blow it up either, and that’s probably the most life like open world simulation to date. Use your imagination. I would vote “no” for Rare to allocate resources to this.

  • @urihamrayne Every animation for each piece of item in the game is taking away that same artist from working on giving me a new skin for my character, a new item to do something new in the world, a new underwater area to explore, a new creature to fight, new characters to interact with, new fauna to see in the world..

    Not many of us are claiming it isn't possible.. (which is still tbd) but with the limited resources Rare has available.. shouldn't they be focused on stuff that actually matters. Breakable objects as being a feature that brings value to a game left as soon as it became such commonplace that people like you are complaining when it isn't in a game.

    It brings no value to the game.. if it was already in the game, yeah it would be cool. But they have years of stuff they need to add to this game. At this point I would almost be mad if they added it within a year from now, because they would be wasting time that they could be adding in something useful that would actually make the world feel more alive.

  • @bo05ter @Puck269 I guess this is where we disagree. I would eventually vote yes for this. I really value immersion and want the game to feel alive. Certainly I wouldn't vote for this now. But if Rare does not have enough cosmetics and content in the game a year from now... we have a problem. Plus, we have 4 dev teams. I'm willing to let one of them work on this kind of stuff and once we have a decent amount of new stuff in the game.

    EDIT: That being said, if the community did not express a desire for this kind of update then I would hope they don't waste the resources to add it.

  • @urihamrayne We do not need the servers brought to a crawl in order to deal with the physics of unused, purely cosmetic items.

  • @xcalypt0x I mean, I wouldn’t not want a more immersive world if money, resources, etc were endless. I also agree with your statement saying basically if content is the same a year from now we’re in trouble, but honestly what value would a breaking bottle add to the game beyond, “Oh that’s cool...I don’t think it did that before.” That’s it, and you’d run out to your ship and off to your voyage. It won’t impact the gameplay, that’s why I vote no.

  • @bo05ter That's a fair point and I totally understand it. Just a difference of opinion I suppose :)

  • Just let me name my ship! it's been asked for and stated we would be able to since alpha at this point throw me a bone here!

  • @iceman-0007 I am looking forward to that, and how Rare will utilize it within the World.

  • I'm starting to get the impression most of you only started playing multiplayer games after gta v was released. Attention to detail does not demand resources, it only demands commitment from developers and the willingness to make the world that more interactive and organic.

    exibit a, old game good, new game bad:

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVtZJo-HqI)
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUxJpDtg0Bs)
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCeEvQ68jY8)

    most of you are still under the erroneous impression physics objects and animations in the year 2018 are taxing on servers, sure you can point towards the incident here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUvWdKfwvZI), but what some failed to mention is that this thing has been patched, so I don't really know how you guys are still in this fantasy land where devs can't implement an animation without breaking the servers, that shows me how much you guys expect incompetency from the dev team.

    Of course I will need to receive a good argument to tell me that this inexpensive addition to player immersion that could come into the game at any time in it's life span is such a horrible idea, but so far I am only being left dissapointed at the lack of objectivity here.

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