The Hungering Deep and its effect on future

  • @braxkedren Quite a bit of people make games, only a few of the developers are supported by popular publishers like MS, but if you think what RARE did with a small team is impressive in the short time frame on an already crafted/controlled engine, then you're mistaking yourself. I am not trying to get into this discussion however, but your response kind of chimed one from myself.

    Other 3d modelers/texture workers and even some coders have chimed in and said it wouldn't be hard to do some of the things RARE has done. The hardest thing was the water.

  • @mistoes said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    i will just leave that here it speaks by itself ..
    oh the reality of this world ..
    personally i was hyped for the launch of the game from all Rares marketing
    and saying how there is so much more and more and more ..
    up untill after hungering deep my hype for this game is over and i am sure i am by far not the only one

    What reality? The reality that Captain Grim's emotional issues and his emotional bias regarding the community being toxic makes him think the game itself is bad? I don't hold his personal feelings in a high enough regard to consider anything he says valid, much less in touch with reality.

    Pfheh... I don't consider that video any form of "reality check" to be honest... Yes this game needs more content, more cool stuff... But this video does NOTHING to portray that point from an objective view, it's just the ramblings of a dude with anger issues. ._.

  • I always feel inadequate when the conversation gets into the technical sides of game design. I don't pretend to know the first thing about it so when people start presenting posts about how Rare's work on SoT is unimpressive at best and criminal at worst, all I can really respond with is....

  • @mistoes I'll just chime in on this lovely debate and say one thing about software development: throwing more people at the problem doesn't accelerate development in proportion to the number of people added.

    As in, there are diminishing returns to simply putting more people on a given project. There comes a point where you have too many hands working on code, models, and so on. Then you encounter delays trying to consolidate all that work in such a way that doesn't cause your code base to implode due to conflicts.

    I guess there is few more points I would like to add.

    Splitting the teams up prevents developer burn out. You don't have the entire work force developing on really short intervals. Combined with hairy code from lots of people modifying it, you risk much more buggy releases. There would simply not be enough time to test the code before release. If you thought that patches have been buggy now, it would be far worse when you combine tight deadlines, too many people on the project, and a rabid fanbase making demands and constantly criticizing everything said and done. Rare's methodology fixes two of the three problems in a simple and elegant way.

    Finally, I promise this is the last one, you have implementation time. Sure models can be developed quite quickly and scripted and whatever. Coding it to simply work is what some call 'spaghetti code'. It is called such because it is messy and hard to clean up later. It is quick and dirty which doesn't bode well for future code maintenance.

    Since Meg has use later in the game, you also have to consider future functionality for it and code for it appropriately. You also have to code it in such a way that it can be modified relatively easy in the future in case you want to have behavioral changes in some future update. Then there is the every present testing and making sure there are no memory leaks, the model renders properly, behaves appropriately, and not crash the server. The more moving parts you have in anything, the more difficult it is to modify that anything in a way that it still works as intended. And so lots of planning, which takes time, has to take place to make sure everything plays nicely and not crash the game leaving everyone in frothing fury.

    Long story short, just because something seems easy to implement and can be implemented quickly doesn't account for integration into the much larger and more complex system.

  • @program-024 said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    Long story short, just because something seems easy to implement and can be implemented quickly doesn't account for integration into the much larger and more complex system.

    thank you. When ever i look at the complaints from the people who are unhappy with SoT, they come of like the game, when it was released, could have easly been made by one guy in less than a day.

    It really comes of like some people seriosuly think that Rare just took a normal shark model, modified it and then just dropped it into the game in just a few minutes and then just called it a day and waited till they could release the Hungering Deep.

  • @dark-henrik-22 exacly 1 day to create the model then the code what we speak about 1 week max? comeone be more silly guuse

  • @sweltering-nick he does not think only becouse ppl toxic the game is content less lacking progression he thinks that way becouse it is that way and you i know your posts around here speaking to you as a wall between

  • I worked some time ago with some Arma/OFP individual modemakers and teams as a texture maker,
    and when I saw yesterday's amateurs working hard and were able to create amazingly detailed and optimized models with bumpmaps and specular maps, scripts etc...amazing missions and campaigns and a lot of stuff of high level quality...

    And then I see a team of "professionals" reskining 5-10 items, reintroducing pre-cuted content and rescaling shark and creating 4 waypoints noenemies "campaign"....and it tooks "2 month of hard work"...

    What I see - You sign a contract with Microsoft for a game and a year of content, you cut 3/4 of existing game and reintroducing it during a whole year - profit! Minimal effort, you have a time for other projects.

    Bad buisness Rare, bad, I'll never buy a game from you again....

    Brainwashed new generation having a habit to be a ripped off with lootboxes and half-baked games can defend you "There is a lot of fun and encounters in this game", but if the legendary Half-life was done by you - we'd had only one level with beautiful puddles and one type of enemies - headcrabs and 5 color solutions for crowbar which would be a solo weapon in the game - 3 month later no one would have remembered about this game!

  • @mistoes said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @sweltering-nick he does not think only becouse ppl toxic the game is content less lacking progression he thinks that way becouse it is that way and you i know your posts around here speaking to you as a wall between

    Dude, commas and full-stops... Or anything to indicate a pause or end to a sentence would be greatly appreciated. Most of what you said was gibberish. o_.

  • So you think your feelings and experience should be everyone elses? You realize people are different? Just leave next time without making a post.

  • @symbioto said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    I worked some time ago with some Arma/OFP individual modemakers and teams as a texture maker,
    and when I saw yesterday's amateurs working hard and were able to create amazingly detailed and optimized models with bumpmaps and specular maps, scripts etc...amazing missions and campaigns and a lot of stuff of high level quality...

    And then I see a team of "professionals" reskining 5-10 items, reintroducing pre-cuted content and rescaling shark and creating 4 waypoints noenemies "campaign"....and it tooks "2 month of hard work"...

    What I see - You sign a contract with Microsoft for a game and a year of content, you cut 3/4 of existing game and reintroducing it during a whole year - profit! Minimal effort, you have a time for other projects.

    Bad buisness Rare, bad, I'll never buy a game from you again....

    Brainwashed new generation having a habit to be a ripped off with lootboxes and half-baked games can defend you "There is a lot of fun and encounters in this game", but if the legendary Half-life was done by you - we'd had only one level with beautiful puddles and one type of enemies - headcrabs and 5 color solutions for crowbar which would be a solo weapon in the game - 3 month later no one would have remembered about this game!

    I’ve had countless moments of fun from player encounters in this game. Hell I just got off a fun time where I snuck up on a galleon and a sloop! If this game isn’t for you fine but it’s so damn arrogant to think just because you can’t get over a couple skins that this game will universally be dismissed when many people enjoy it.

    Sure go ahead your experience should be the same as everyone else’s and your feelings are the same. Oh wait people are different. Never have I seen people get so angry over simply something not being their cup of tea next time just leave bye

  • @mistoes Hungering Deep was a steaming pile of broken promises and disappointment.

  • Expensive cup of tea for 60 euro, falsy advertised as high quality tea, but in reality made from trash with a tea-bag full of holes and broken thread :)

    You want me to have same opinion on this game as you...or wait people are different! (take it back)

    What you just don't get - is that I liked the visual style and pvp mechanics of this game from the first days, but there was an clear lack of content in this game to have a price of 60 euros.

    Why I didn't asked for refund as many others - because Rare promised to work hard and to deliver lots of new content, they even created some polls and asked our opinion to show us their good intentions.

    We waited passionately for 2 months, and what we see - reskins, reskins, reskins...nothing to do with what we asked for in polls. And the amount of delivered content and quality is not matching to "2 month of hard work" of experienced team.

  • Man, people gettin' nasty up in here.

    Take it easy, bros. It's just a vidja game.

    You mad cause some folks are into it?

  • @v**a-hombre said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    You mad cause some folks are into it?

    No, because it became today's level of videogames - half made, empty world - find a fun for yourself by yourself, lootboxes (soon will see microtransactions for rare pets and sabres) a lot of empty promises to finish the game one day and false advertisement.
    No man's sea, but not even sure, because in NmSky they delivered some content at the end, but not sure that gonna be the case of the SoF

  • Whoa.
    But then.... How do we know that what rare says is the same what they actually doooooo....
    They sayyyyyy they only worked on it for 2 months....
    Was anybody there ?

    Boom.
    Que popcorn

  • The Hungerint Deep wasn’t by any means a massive progressive step for SOT, but there is a bit to like. I think the weekly updates will give us a better understanding of how fast/slow the content will drip. Everyone here knows the game needs content, but I’m afriad that if you’re looking for a remarkable change, come back in a year. At the moment, I’ve just settled with the fact that my expectations won’t ever be met. Kinda like a bad girl/boyfriend that you stick around with for no other reason than habbit.

  • One issue I think Sea of Thieves has is this steady attrition of players who once liked the game being alienated by one thing or another while Rare does next to nothing to gain new players or repair its relationship with former players. The sentiment in the video that HD wasn't enough is one I agree with. I'm not coming back for a single-session quest and a boss fight. There needs to be a lot more added than that, and sooner the better because every day I'm away from SoT, the less I care about it. I'm already considering picking up Frostpunk, and I really only have time for one title.

  • @mistoes said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @ardent-38 no you didnt get anything new besides the giant shark, Tattoos you had already in game at creating of character they just made you able to choose them now, The ship skin was already in the game at 2017 if even not before ppl played in alphas and betas had more skins then us. Drum is poorly done animation with a tune playing in the background.
    horn ? its a skin wich increases your voice radius was found a month or more before the update. so what they actually did ? the megaledon ... and no but you dont know how much it takes to those stuff if you look or go into youtube and just watch companise record themselves creating those stuff you will understand thats 2 months and a half its a joke for that

    Flags and generic sail colors and a new sovereign outfit

  • @symbioto

    Eh, I can understand that. Think you may be taking it a little too hard, but I get it. Two months doesn't really seem like THAT long of a time to me, especially with all the bug fixes and maintenance they had to do at launch, but I don't know game design, so I don't know what's reasonable.

    Also, I thought they were pretty clear on what was going to be included in Hungering Deep. I didn't pay much attention to the build-up, but I did read the list of features they put out. Seemed fairly straightforward.

    But hey, that's the nice thing about public forums, right? We can cover all the bases. You handle the tough love and I can handle the boundless positivity!

  • @rattlyfob
    Half of sovereign outfit that was needed to be here with the other half they uploaded in a month ago by their "mistake"
    and flags were in the game already from the alphas check their E3 videos 2017 ... just held it back to call it content 2 months later

  • @v**a-hombre said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @symbioto

    so I don't know what's reasonable.

    2 month to put back what was cut before ? See 2015-2017 videos and you gonna discover trumpet, flags, violin etc.
    They only feed you new skins for existing models, it's 1-2 days of work to recolour 10-20skins for outsourcers.

    Also, I thought they were pretty clear on what was going to be included in Hungering Deep.

    Or yeah -
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/news/sea-of-thieves-content-plans

    "We will also be introducing a number of new mechanics to assist players on this adventure"
    Attention... and the number iiiiisssss.....(absolute silence!) ONE! One new mechanic - speaker trumpet! Wow too much content, amazing, love it !!!! Trumpet just reintroduced back to game. (Long applauds!!!)

    "and there will be unique rewards that players can earn as part of this event. "

    Yep, absolutely unique shark figurine, doesn't mater that you can buy absolutely the same shark figurine but slightly different tint in the any shop on any island, but for you it should to be an exclusive reward, just shut-up and play average gamer, we have your money already!

    "bring with it a new AI threat to the world."

    Rescaled copypasted shark with slight mods and same AI, we use special "ctrl-c ctrl-v" command which takes 2 month to be done!

  • @symbioto how much salt do you have in your diet?

    by the way, have you ever thought that some of the content had to be taken out because it was screwing with the game? I mean all the guys with similar views like you have complained in the past on how much of a bunch of failures that Rare is when it comes to game programing, so i would assume that you would probably remember the times they had to remove things they recently added into the game, because it broke the hole thing for everyone.

  • @symbioto said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @v**a-hombre said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @symbioto

    so I don't know what's reasonable.

    2 month to put back what was cut before ? See 2015-2017 videos and you gonna discover trumpet, flags, violin etc.
    They only feed you new skins for existing models, it's 1-2 days of work to recolour 10-20skins for outsourcers.

    Also, I thought they were pretty clear on what was going to be included in Hungering Deep.

    Or yeah -
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/news/sea-of-thieves-content-plans

    "We will also be introducing a number of new mechanics to assist players on this adventure"
    Attention... and the number iiiiisssss.....(absolute silence!) ONE! One new mechanic - speaker trumpet! Wow too much content, amazing, love it !!!! Trumpet just reintroduced back to game. (Long applauds!!!)

    "and there will be unique rewards that players can earn as part of this event. "

    Yep, absolutely unique shark figurine, doesn't mater that you can buy absolutely the same shark figurine but slightly different tint in the any shop on any island, but for you it should to be an exclusive reward, just shut-up and play average gamer, we have your money already!

    "bring with it a new AI threat to the world."

    Rescaled copypasted shark with slight mods and same AI, we use special "ctrl-c ctrl-v" command which takes 2 month to be done!

    Thats exacly what i cant understand how can you respect yourself as a company even when you are giving 0 s**t about playerbase you build up hype then 1 week before update you saying sry we had small team and no time its just a 1 big Clown up there trolling the community

  • @dark-henrik-22 said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @symbioto how much salt do you have in your diet?

    by the way, have you ever thought that some of the content had to be taken out because it was screwing with the game? I mean all the guys with similar views like you have complained in the past on how much of a bunch of failures that Rare is when it comes to game programing, so i would assume that you would probably remember the times they had to remove things they recently added into the game, because it broke the hole thing for everyone.

    If one day you want to learn how to do something, you don's start by selling your first tryouts promising you will finish it one day and it gonna be amazing. You just cant sell a table with one leg and ask to temporary put something under to stabilize it, later you will add 3 more legs, because for now you ain't yet learned how to produce a table legs.

    If you started to sell games, and you take money for it - hire some professional programmers and do some tests before to release some garbage, at least you have insiders to test, so it's just up to team to not to release unfinished content!

  • @symbioto said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    If you started to sell games, and you take money for it - hire some professional programmes and do some tests before to release some garbage, at least you have insiders to test, so it's just up to team to not to release unfinished content!

    Well, Rare have said that they are going to bring back the pioneer testing, so they atleast don't end up with new additions to the game that ends up crashing the servers.

    Though, given your current view of SoT and on Rare, i doupt you care about that, and instead wants the hole team working at Rare to be fired by MS.

  • @symbioto

    Ah, see I only ever read the content list on the website. Which laid it all out pretty clearly. Perhaps you should adopt my tactic and just not pay that much attention to it all.

    Just a suggestion. I feel bad when people seem so upset over this kinda stuff.

  • @symbioto said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    They only feed you new skins for existing models, it's 1-2 days of work to recolour 10-20skins for outsourcers.

    Realistically, if we're talking about a professional artist that uses raster graphics software on a daily basis, it would be more like 1-2 hours. Although, to be fair, they go through this whole process where the art lead says "hey, we need recolors of X asset, give me 50.", artist does 50, lead picks however many they needed(say 2-3), and those end up in the game.

  • @lucid-stew said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    One issue I think Sea of Thieves has is this steady attrition of players who once liked the game being alienated by one thing or another while Rare does next to nothing to gain new players or repair its relationship with former players. The sentiment in the video that HD wasn't enough is one I agree with. I'm not coming back for a single-session quest and a boss fight. There needs to be a lot more added than that, and sooner the better because every day I'm away from SoT, the less I care about it. I'm already considering picking up Frostpunk, and I really only have time for one title.

    Frost punk is an amazing game, and I highly recommend it.

  • I’m gonna have to say I was impressed by the physics when it rammed a sloop or galleon.

  • MMO progression is always pointless, the enemies you fight level with you and there is no real progress. The only thing you get stronger than is other players, and most MMOs are equalizing that because losing to somebody based on their level just resulting pointless gank spamming.

    All progression is pointless, it is about the experience.

  • @personalc0ffee said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    @symbioto said in The Hungering Deep and its effect on future:

    Expensive cup of tea for 60 euro, falsy advertised as high quality tea, but in reality made from trash with a tea-bag full of holes and broken thread :)

    You want me to have same opinion on this game as you...or wait people are different! (take it back)

    What you just don't get - is that I liked the visual style and pvp mechanics of this game from the first days, but there was an clear lack of content in this game to have a price of 60 euros.

    Why I didn't asked for refund as many others - because Rare promised to work hard and to deliver lots of new content, they even created some polls and asked our opinion to show us their good intentions.

    We waited passionately for 2 months, and what we see - reskins, reskins, reskins...nothing to do with what we asked for in polls. And the amount of delivered content and quality is not matching to "2 month of hard work" of experienced team.

    Honestly, no one cares if you don't think it is worth $60. Stop using this flawed argument. What you value is subjective.

    It isn't fact.

    Thank you. One person may pay 60 dollars for a rug another person considers ugly and pointless. This pretending its worth is objective is silly.

  • The question is not value of 60 euros, just why I have to pay anything to team doing 1/3 of promised work. And I didn't refund it because of their promises of hard work.

    If you working for a company and you do even not half of your work - you gonna be fired,
    If you are company boss, and your workers do 1/3 of the job - you gonna fire them.
    If you invest in 1/3 of the solid built building and after they just put fast some askew wooden roof built with a trash to finish it - you will sue them

    Why in game industry if you buy a 1/3 product and you promised to see a result of a hard work later, but you see only someone cheating on you by throwing you something easy to do and nothing to do with what was promised - is't normal, you even defend them ?
    You have a Stockholm Syndrome ?

  • @braxkedren

    So if it’s so easy to do then why don’t more people make games?

    • this response makes no sense. People don’t make games, big companies with lots of employees (unless you’re Cuphead and Rare is a big company that had been making games for years).

    Also if Rare had a monopoly on Pirate games then there’d be no other Pirate games out there at all...oh wait there are. So no monopoly there

    • equally false insofar as multiplayer goes.

    Sea of Fetch, funny. All games put you in a “fetch” mode. Please try again.

    • no need to try again - there’s only 3 quests and now a one-off magaladon tat takes 30 minutes to complete. So back to fetching chickens.
  • @spent-d - books. I write books. And I never said I could do anything in “a week.” Please read my original post. Rare has tons of employees and has hyped this content since release. It is 45 minutes of play. That isn’t much. Like has been said on this thread: game should have been delayed.

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