Please Stop the Griefer Hate

@wildeyedjokr
I see your point,
But what I believe are griefers are a necessary evil. Also Rare has put in mechanics that are continually balencing the game. I just don’t want to see that balencing threaten the gem that we have by having a truly open world. Also I have learned that with an open world some people just suck, well because people suck

@jokerslaughgas said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

@wildeyedjokr
I see your point,
But what I believe are griefers are a necessary evil. Also Rare has put in mechanics that are continually balencing the game. I just don’t want to see that balencing threaten the gem that we have by having a truly open world. Also I have learned that with an open world some people just suck, well because people suck

I understand the position, "Talk S, get hit.". It's a good feeling sinking those people.

But I think they need more than just "Finally shut them up - Oh.. There he is again".

@jokerslaughgas Well i wouldn't tell people to stop being creative to find solutions for the Griefer problem, but they should always consider the impact on normal PvP and make sure it doesn't kill normal PvP.

I for my end have given up on seeing any solution to this since my expierence in Elite Dangerous. This game has:

• a Bounty system: Killing other players raises your bounty and everyone can kill you free of charges
• Ammunition you fire needs to be refilled which cost money
• repairing your ship costs money
• The game has a NPC-Police Force that attacks you if you have a bounty on your head
• Not to mention that other Players can join in and attack too
  Did all that help in the end? Well nope there are still Griefers. Maybe it reduced their number, but they are still there.

@danish-crusader

Sir,

My main point is not to encourage griefing , but rather to ensure the core game does not lose the open world freedom in attempts to solve griefing.

It’s a necessary evil and people suck. Just the hate is unfounded because a griefer is a blanket term for a lot of things people don’t like about unfair PVP. Some is justified, but Rare is fixing the balencing issues like further spawns away and scuttling ships. I just don’t want to see core freedoms in the game limited because someone wants it to become a PvE game

@allekatrase Its' not necessary to shoot someone at an outpost, unless they shoot at you. You can approach at an angle that gives you the advantage. Talk to them and tell them you are friendly and won't shoot if they don't. For me this works most of the time. If they shoot then as I said I have the advantage and can sink them before they sink me.

@danish-crusader said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

@jokerslaughgas Griefers are NEVER, EVER a "nessecary evil" the fact that you think so speaks volumes about your state of mind(It's not good just in case you were wondering).
And yes, some people suck, I like to call those people "Griefers" because they go out of their way to ruin your day.
Enjoying other peoples suffering is never a good thing.

You act like being an (Mod removed) and downright annoying is a good thing for a community.
Has that ever worked for you in real life? Do you think that if you went over to a small child with a balloon, popped it and shoved him into a mudpit that he would thank you for making his life more interesting? No, He'd get mad at you(And probably cry).
And before you start with "It isn't real life", there are real people behind those characters you are griefing. They are trying to enjoy the game, and you are stopping that enjoyment.
But I don't even know why I am typing all this, you clearly will try and twist and turn this to make yourself seem like a "savior" of the game, to keep it more interesting, all the while you are the one digging the hole for the game, because your actions are (Mod removed) people off and making them stop playing the game.
You are no savior, you are not helping the game in any way, shape or form.

Ok, your argument is that people in the game are defenseless children waiting for griefer bullies trying to pop their balloon and shove them in the mud? I’d like to think that people with Rares current balencing could overcome them.

I also believe you have the right to be a pirate in whatever you see fit. People suck, but if you feel that taking the choice away to suck or be a good pirate (by your definition) is the way to go that is your opinion. I’m not trying to come across as self righteous, I like the game and don’t want to see it turn into a game where you can’t do anything for fear of hurting another pirates feelings.

@Danish-Crusader

Have you ever read Ernest Clines Ready Player One? Griefers are like the sixers, they suck which is why they are called suxxors. Good read if you have the chance

IMO "Griefers" focus their efforts on frustrating, exploiting and antagonizing other players, all in an attempt to create a situation that favors their (the Griefers) strength, so they can dominate and humiliate the other player. This behavior is a type of personal attack and is a viable strategy to defeat someone who is considered your enemy and whom you wish to demoralize. It is however not a strategy that either promotes or creates a good gaming environment, since a games primary purpose is normally for enjoyment through friendly challenge against players whom you intend no ill will. If you bring a different intention into the game i.e. (I want others to suffer) then you're not really playing the game as intended. In fact you are acting counter to the games primary intent as a source of enjoyment for all. This doesn't mean you have to like losing, just be aware that your opponent should be playing too. If not then really you're the only one playing the game and he's got another agenda and it isn't a game anymore.

See PvP in any form is not griefing. At least not in my opinion. The only real griefing in this game is when your teammate is an awe-full human-being. For example, I was playing for a decent amount of time. I had collected around 6 skulls and had all my animal crates (around 15ish) filled. Then AngrySquirrel27 joins my game starts wandering around my ship. I've had griefers try to drop off all my loot from the back of the ship before so I was keeping an eye on him. He didn't seem to be doing much of anything then I saw him bringing down a gunpowder barrel. I asked him to put it back instead he blew it up underneath the ship.

This is the griefing that we need to stop. not pvp.

OP seems like the most chill person in the forums. Sucks his thread got "griefed" by greif-haters that couldn't comprehend the point he was making.

Sorry but I don't agree. I see what your saying but can't bring myself to agree with you.

"You should keep abusing me because I may just come up with a clever solution."

"You should continue to beat me up because one day I'll beat you and feel good about myself."

Some things in society are just not allowed because they are outright wrong. We don't accept them since those behaviours are just not ok and cannot, in any way, enrich our lives.

Clever solutions and feelings of achievement and success can, and should, only occur through healthy and balanced PvP.

Great angle to the topic. Much obliged. While some behaviour patterns may feel like a mild nuisance or worse in essence, certain environment assemblies do regard them as assets of challenge. Another great ingredient to have fun is a brave attitude. ^^

@evasive-envy said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

"You should keep abusing me..."

I don't think they meant that abusers should be allowed to abuse. Not on our level of existence and not in this one either. In the game though it is difficult to actually be angry to other players if the game is supposed to utilise a wide array of trades as assets and a customer somewhere hasn't learned to get comfortable to some of them yet. Becoming displeased to ourselves is more of a rule than an exception though.

"...because I may just come up with a clever solution."

What comes to the clever solution, we already know what that is. Its not very clever though. However, we can still find out more ways to react; discover a wider variety of ways how to tweak our course of actions. It all comes to intentions. Do we want to revenge our bigotry or do we swallow our pride and learn from the conflict, i.e. the lessons it brings, so that next time the opposition is an asset to us, not a stone to step on.

"You should continue to beat me up..."

Not necessarily so. I wager that no one advocates that. What is advocated is that in this specific environment, i.e. amongst a certain set of variables, it might be more rewarding to learn the trade first as a whole and then suggest betterments so that our suggestions and our own behaviour patterns are the most harnessed and accurate.

"...because one day I'll beat you and feel good about myself."

One's journey of a lifetime in a nutshell, or a quest at least. One of mine was a rather short one, I wager. I overcame my bullies at school, not in their game, but my own. No surprise that I did feel good. In this game the schemes are not very deep either, but they are not impossible to counter. For example insta-brigging is one of those and more or less immediate recruitment interrogation followed is another. Even if one succeeds to drop our treasure haul overboard, someone else always grabs it on board so I am glad in both scenarios.

Some things in society are just not allowed because they are outright wrong. We don't accept them since those behaviours are just not ok and cannot, in any way, enrich our lives.

We are talking about a level of existence where there are digital vessels the players drive as the Voice of God. While some things can be titled 'wrong' in our level of existence, it doesn't mean that a similar approach in a digital realm should necessarily reward the same fate. For example in some games where our characters can kill the characters of other players, it is okay to kill another player-navigated character coz the individual itself will still live in the end and their avatar is the one who dies; probably respawning as well, depending from the game and its features. Point is that not all rules of a society apply here coz the variables of the immediate digital environment comes first. Then comes the community rules and only then comes the society unless we talk about loot boxes and the like.

Clever solutions and feelings of achievement and success can, and should, only occur through healthy and balanced PvP.

Whenever we know what that balance is and the level of health is clear, then we shall.

@flintlock-pete

Very good points you shared there. I would emphasise that the keywords are humiliation, breaking and quitting. Personal humiliation to break the will to have players quit. Usually the division of the whole community is the target coz that is the juiciest apple to squash. The individual is just a tiny fish in the bigger school of fish.

@arch-fable Thanks for your message. I believe that there are behaviours that are not accepted in the digital world. Digital or not digital, it makes no difference.

Harrassment comes in many forms and griefing, in my opinion, is a form of harrassment. I'm not talking about sinking someones ship and taking their loot. I'm talking about griefing behaviours that are accepted and identified within the gaming community as being actual griefing. Hence my analogies in my previous post.

I stand by my point that griefing cannot enrich the gaming experience.

I appreciate the point you are trying to communicate but disagree wholly with it. Thanks for your response though. I'm sure our posts will foster some healthy discussion.

Happy sailing!

@mcstabbypants Tons of pro's for the guys taking your supplies. Eliminating griefers is really easy. You solve it by getting rid of the respawn on your boat. If I board you I want your stuff...if you keep coming back every 2 minutes then by default I have to keep killing you so that I can keep taking your stuff...thats what I dont think most people get. I really dont want to fight any more than I HAVE to...but the game forces me to continue to do it with the respawn. Yes I board people, yes I kill people on their boats...and yes I will do it again. It's not toxic, its PvP. I know you wont care, but it sounds like the guy you are debating gets the real point of the game and sadly you dont.

@evasive-envy said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

@arch-fable Thanks for your message. I believe that there are behaviours that are not accepted in the digital world. Digital or not digital, it makes no difference.

Just like in our level of existence, we define the limits for digital existence as well. Differences however vary so we need to consider them.

Harrassment comes in many forms and griefing, in my opinion, is a form of harrassment.

If such exists, then yes. However, not every behaviour is regarded griefing in every situation. Harassment comes in many forms so griefing or not, it's best to build the framework first.

I'm not talking about sinking someones ship and taking their loot. I'm talking about griefing behaviours that are accepted and identified within the gaming community as being actual griefing. Hence my analogies in my previous post.

While one may be accepted and identified, it may not warrant measures in this game for example. It all depends what the intentions of the devs are and what the intentions of the players are. Behaviour can be utilised as an asset when a proper outlet is designed.

I stand by my point that griefing cannot enrich the gaming experience.

Griefing itself doesn't, but what is griefing differs from platform to platform.

@arch-fable Totally agree that not every behaviour can be identified as griefing. Griefing is a word that I have seen used quite a lot, yet as you mention, probably needs some more discussion as to tease out its true meaning and implications in the gaming environment.

PvP enriches the game, griefing does not. There is a clear difference between the two. Please tell me how someone joining your crew then flinging chests overboard and leaving enriches the game. Or someone who deliberately crashes the ships on rocks just to annoy or grief the crew. Someone who is out to ruin others play experience doesn't enrich anything whatsoever and to try and argue that griefing is a good thing is probably one of the most stupid things I've read on these forums yet. Only a griefer or someone who is incredibly naïve would try to argue this point.

@mcstabbypants said in Please Stop the Griefer Hate:

And this right here is why the community is so toxic and the game will fail.

This game is no where near as toxic as Rust and that game is doing quite well.

Sea of Thieves is a pleasant relaxing experience. In Sea of Thieves you win some, and you lose some.

If you get sunk and lose your treasure move on and quit crying about it. Go out and sink someone and steal their loot to make up for your loss!

@holezinya Sinking someones ship and taking their loot is not griefing... It's PvP which is a part of the game. Griefing and PvP are two different things entirely.

It's call "Sea of Thieves"... not "Sea of Friends and Fairness."

The game was made for tense yet super fun PvP experiences; even when I loose loot it was still fun to have the crazy PvP during the process.