NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING

@scheneighnay

Mate, explain the "clown" aspect in greater depth, please.

@scheneighnay said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

90% of the forum consists of clowns who want to protect the worst gameplay so they can feel powerful.

Those of us that post here regularly disagree on lots of issues.

People disagree with me all the time, I disagree with others a lot.

There is no universal opinion on anything game play related here lol.

@wolfmanbush

Definitely agreed. The TDMer in me is highly inclined to take it to a fort and make sure they can keep that same energy, though, lol.

@xmigliore-0 toxticity and doublegunning are not correlated but the current state of toxic player you can find on the sea are doublegunner. like a motto in my country "non tutti gli arabi son terroristi, ma tutti i terroristi son arabi", that is something like "not every doublegunner is toxic, but all toxics (real ones) are doublegunners"

BTW, as a sword enjoyer i can say that the blunder is too powerful, but not in the way you think.
i am no talking about the onetap from the blunderbuss, yes it's annoyng when you got one but is fun when you kill with it, but the fact that when someone shot me with the BG, most of the time didn't kill me, but i was knocked back, just in time to being sniped to leave the rest of the live that i had.

in my opinion they have to remove the knockout, also with the sword you have it, but is less jumper, and you get that after the finishing of the combo, where you have all the time to jump back, parry, or attack back, not like the bg where you lose 3/4 of health and you will be knocked out in less than 3 seconds without even knowing where the shot came from

@clxppyyy said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

@scurvywoof You can say as much as you want, but (most) Doublegunners sweat. You can't deny that without a proper reason. If we look at the current meta, people are going crazy with their quick scopes and animation cancellations just to get that little more time advantage. How isn't this sweating? If a experienced Doublegunners shows up to a newer/not so experienced player, he will likely quick scope etc. just because he is used to it. That destroys the whole fun for newer crews and is also btw. one of the reasons, why there aren't so much players on Sea of Thieves anymore. I use the sword properly by f.e dodging or switching to my pistol/blunderbombs, when certain distance is needed. And your "downside" can't be a downside if you'll finish the enemy with a blunderbuss shot, which is btw for sloop boarders most of the time the case. If you try to tell me to use a sword properly then I gotta tell you that you gotta learn much more than just doublegunning. F.e. Ever heard of dodging/running around the deck and meanwhile reloading? Let me tell you most of the Doublegunners actually do that and they disappear moments right after they killed you with their blunderbuss.

I have yet to see a shred of evidence that proves 'most double gunners sweat'. You're experience speaks only for you, and you know it. It's a stupid generalisation and it shouldn't be made. It's the same as saying that, "All sword players suck and can only press left mouse button repeatedly" and yet everyone gets upset about that. Ironic.

I will also need your numbers for there not 'being many players in Sea of Thieves anymore'. Because the current numbers disprove that.

Also, if you're just letting double gunners get to the ammo box without resistance and reload, that is ENTIRELY on you! Fire bomb your own ship to block the ammo if you have to, don't let them get to it freely. And, yes, having no mobility is an enormous downside. Let me tell you, block-jumping is the greatest thing to have as a sword user. The uses of it during both PvP and PvE are incredible. You say you use it, but act like every double gunner has god aim and it is therefore useless.

I utilise the sword and double gun depending on the situation. I've almost mastered both loadouts (minus exploits) and do not need lectures on what I need to 'learn'. I appreciate the thought, though.

Also, circling back to the start of your paragraph. "If we look at the current meta, people are going crazy with their quick scopes and animation cancellations just to get that little more time advantage".
In my experience, less than 25-30% of my opponents double gun and only a fraction of those use any form of cancelling/ quickscoping. And don't act like time isn't everything in battle because it is. I understand using swaps to shave off those extra milliseconds, but I don't condone it.

"If a experienced Doublegunners shows up to a newer/not so experienced player, he will likely quick scope etc. just because he is used to it..."
And we are going to ignore experienced (or not experienced at all) swordsmen, are we? They ruin the fun for new players just as much as double gunners do, but I understand that you're trying to prove a point.

I won't be responding for a while as I've got a lot of stuff to work on, but I do genuinely hope your experience improves. I'll get back to you when I can.

Happy Sailing!

@xmigliore-0 here we can discuss about the urge to TDM on a Pirates game, i can't see why you can't enjoy the game without talk like the typical faze-wannabe that needs to 1v1 to prove his opinion. you can easly live knowing that someone thinks different like you. just like this case. i don't agree the TDM, i think that is the most of the stupidiest thing to do in SoT because excluding the experience you with the weapons, you are doing nothing, and the game is full of things to do, but i don't need to prove you that, for me is a no-sense, but maybe for you is not. just some people that feel the urge to sink every ship on the server or the most passive pirate you can find on the server will never understand each others, there's different people, with different arguments and opinions. i am pretty sure that the 90% of the posts about the Nerfing/removing doublegunning is the result of a bad-ended session, and yes, in past i have done a couple posts to, so i know what imma talk about, and maybe the opinions are extreme, and wroted down with the bad-blood. so maybe people are more aggressive, but is a matter of fact that if someone is a good Blunderist\doublegunner can delete your full health in a couple of seconds, and the sword don't. i can be a skilled swordsman, but i can't oneshot...ehm...oneslash someone in a few seconds. i have a solution but it automatically enters in the Remove doublegun argument, because i think that in a pirate game is an onbligation to have the sword. i have never heard about a pirate that doesn't use a sword, is like going in was just only with the hand grenates. but i know that for someone this is a bad modification on his gameplay

Sorry for the papire

@grog-minto i have tried to quote you but some errors appears, so i must quote you in this way, i hope that you can undersand the post.

1. "you can sword lunge for 60 and shot your pistol / snipe right after for 50 / 70."

ok but the sword lunge must be charged and if you miss, you can't move for 3-4 seconds, and is not fast as blunder shoot + sniper, so is not the same

2. "Honestly, I can understand the frustration but it clouds your judgement."

i am not frustrated, it's been a while since i've found a doublegunner, i'm just saying what are my thought

3. "Is the Blunder/snipe loadout inherently toxic ? No. I've met plenty of sword users displaying top level toxicity."

the relation is 70/30 DG/SWORD in percentage of Toxic players Wepons style, to being large NGL. i have seen a lot of doublegunner toxic, but a sword one ,never.

4. "Is it the best loadout in the game ? I'd argue that it is, slightly."

that's a variety killer things if hey don't balance all

5. "I'm not sure you'd like a meta where you can't ladder guard with a OS blunderbuss against highly skilled player (regardless of the loadout they use)"

i can defend myself from a boarder without the BG, like with blunderbomb or starting the sword-dash while he's climbing the ladders, differently to others i can live without the OS from a blunderbuss

@cpt-zainn it was for introduce the argument, a impersonal "myself". a lecteral structure that you can use (as in this case) to do an example. maybe in my Native Language works better. BTW i wasn't call myself a Skilled swordsman, i was making an hypotetically example

@cpt-zainn said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

"skilled swordsman" there is no such thing

Lots of them over the years. People focus on content creators but I've seen dozens and dozens of awesome sword players over the years and that's just a part of it, the strategy is as impressive as the performance.

This game has had tremendous adventure pvpers over the years, specifically with the sword

@cpt-zainn This is a discussion. The only people, who need to "pIpE dOwN" are the ones, who tell others to shut up in a discourse. If you can't manner in a discourse then just go away and don't disturb us.

@mastereyad said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

But the swabbies would someday learn double gunning and the process will repeat.

Maybe that's what this discussion is indirectly all about? To not let this happen?
You're saying it for yourself. The Doublegunning-Meta is simply dominating, which the swabby will realize. Imagine a game where only one loadout is carrying? This would be extremely boring and would kill the (combat-)diversity in Sea of Thieves.

@wolfmanbush turning your sensetivity up and clicking left click and right click is not skill, give me names of these so called skilled swordsman and we will run it on fort i bet i could kill them a few times

@scurvywoof said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

I have yet to see a shred of evidence that proves 'most double gunners sweat'. You're experience speaks only for you, and you know it. It's a stupid generalisation and it shouldn't be made. It's the same as saying that, "All sword players suck and can only press left mouse button repeatedly" and yet everyone gets upset about that. Ironic.

Please re-read the following. You're correct with claiming its my experience, but I do share this with a lot of other people:

@clxppyyy said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

@scurvywoof You can say as much as you want, but (most) Doublegunners sweat. You can't deny that without a proper reason. ***If we look at the current meta, people are going crazy with their quick scopes and animation cancellations just to get that little more time advantage. ***

I will also need your numbers for there not 'being many players in Sea of Thieves anymore'. Because the current numbers disprove that.

Biggest cap in history of cap ngl. Give me your numbers then. I checked at Steam statistics and saw that in the last 2 years the playerbase shrunk about at least 50%. From 40.000 daily to 11.000.

Also, if you're just letting double gunners get to the ammo box without resistance and reload, that is ENTIRELY on you! Fire bomb your own ship to block the ammo if you have to, don't let them get to it freely. And, yes, having no mobility is an enormous downside. Let me tell you, block-jumping is the greatest thing to have as a sword user. The uses of it during both PvP and PvE are incredible. You say you use it, but act like every double gunner has god aim and it is therefore useless.

I don't get your argument at all... For combat, 5 bullets FOR EACH WEAPON are (seriously and you know that too) enough to send the enemy to the Ferryman. So your whole argument here, when Im dead doesn't make any sense: "don't let them get to it freely". Like how am I supposed to block the ammo crate when I'm dead? Because of that, there is no such "downside" for doublegunning (ammo).

Also, circling back to the start of your paragraph. "If we look at the current meta, people are going crazy with their quick scopes and animation cancellations just to get that little more time advantage".
In my experience, less than 25-30% of my opponents double gun and only a fraction of those use any form of cancelling/ quickscoping. And don't act like time isn't everything in battle because it is. I understand using swaps to shave off those extra milliseconds, but I don't condone it.

Don't forget, it's also about the Blunderbuss. There may be (and I assume its way more than) 30% doublegunners in the community, but even more do use the incredible advantage (and easy use for large rewards) of the blunderbuss. "And don't act like time isn't everything in battle because it is.". Sorry, am I misregarding things here, because im pretty sure that I didn't claim that. I assume we do have here a misunderstanding.

"If a experienced Doublegunners shows up to a newer/not so experienced player, he will likely quick scope etc. just because he is used to it..."
They ruin the fun for new players just as much as double gunners do.

You contradict yourself. I quote you:
"You're experience speaks only for you, and you know it. It's a stupid generalisation and it shouldn't be made. It's the same as saying that, "All sword players suck and can only press left mouse button repeatedly" and yet everyone gets upset about that. Ironic."

@cpt-zainn said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

@wolfmanbush turning your sensetivity up and clicking left click and right click is not skill, give me names of these so called skilled swordsman and we will run it on fort i bet i could kill them a few times

Cool, this is an adventure game, there is a lot more to combat in the design of the environment than just tdm on fort. Skill and performance aren't confined to contrived scenarios.

@fedted998

Only reason I brought up TDMing was because someone felt the need to call people who disagree with them 'clowns'. I'm perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me, it's only that when I am respectful, I expect others to be so as well. Guess that doesn't always happen.

Either way, I will speak on a sentence from your post. "so maybe people are more aggressive, but is a matter of fact that if someone is a good Blunderist\doublegunner can delete your full health in a couple of seconds, and the sword don't. i can be a skilled swordsman, but i can't oneshot...ehm...oneslash someone in a few seconds.". This is just entirely incorrect. I am not sure how to phrase it in any other kind way than to say that a truly GOOD or DECENT sword user can kill even the BEST double gunner by merely clicking mouse 1 and strafing a little. I consider myself to be up there with some of the best 90 FoV players, and I have died plenty to sword users. Ever heard of Blurbs? Utmost? These guys have MASTERED the sword to the point that some double gunners fear them! Fact is, the sword is reliable for newer players because it doesn't require aiming, just a little movement. The blunderbuss can also be an excellent choice for new or experienced players alike because of its one-shot capabilities. Double gunning requires good aim and movement. Double gunning is arguably more difficult than spam clicking your mouse and strafing, but this difference in difficulty to learn is what SETS APART GOOD PLAYERS AND BAD PLAYERS. I'm not saying that double gunners are good and sword users are bad, so don't quote that out of context, but I'm saying that when there is something in the game that takes more time to learn than something else, a skill gap is formed. Without a skill gap, the game would be frankly dull, and many would quit (as is occurring as we speak, sadly).

"i have never heard about a pirate that doesn't use a sword"... Blackbeard, my friend, 6 pistols! He would have made all the sword users cry with that quick swap!

It's easy to forget, by the way, that sword users STILL HAVE ONE GUN!!! Slash, slash, pistol. Slash, slash, sniper. Slash, slash, blunderbuss. If you take the time to get good at it, it can be almost as fast as double gunning while being much, much, much, easier to master.

@a10dr4651

Agreed. As a main cannon/flex in competitive SoT, I can confirm that angles, cannon arcs, holding water, etc., are way more important than close-quarter fights (unless you're flex and on boarder watch, but that's not the biggest part of the fight).

Please also remember that one-blunders are actually quite rare. Not only because of the TRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH hit registration, but also because most people can't strafe and therefore are easily killed before getting to be point-blank with their opponent.

@xmigliore-0 said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

Please also remember that one-blunders are actually quite rare.

Man... idk, lets be honest here. The rarity stops at the moment a boarder appears on your ship/ladders (forgetting about juking). And even if so, it'll still do too much damage from mid-range (as much as a pistolshot).

@clxppyyy

Eh, normally people just blunderbomb boarders off of the ladder or sword lunge/two tap them before they can get up. I have a clip from a recent LBH scrim of me one blundering a clueless helm from right behind them, and it didn't count lol.

@a10dr4651

Let's be real. If you're complaining that quick swapping is the reason you're losing, you weren't going to win that fight from the get-go.

@jj-h816

This TBH

@jj-h816 said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

@a10dr4651 said in NERF THE BLUNDERBUSS/DOUBLEGUNNING:

It's not currently balanced, the main imbalances is the time to kill which is boosted heavily by animation cancelling and being able to pair two heavy weapons together, that being the EoR/blunderbuss. The game feels much more balanced when the sword is present. I'd argue the current meta doesn't give off the fantasy pirate gameplay most expect when they come into the game.
The double gun meta forces you towards it if you want to be competitive, that's why most use it. If it's the most used loadout it means its the best.
I'm all for removing exploits and even forcing the cutlass long term but before that happens the cutlass needs to function correctly and also have its damage values reduced back to the old ones. Whether Rare will change anything, it's anyones guess but they have been starting address exploits over the past 12 months with shovel, bucket cancel and attempted to fix silent board.

Really? As a double gunner I think swords are the most broken weapon in the game. Light attack, heavy attack, mobility boost, sword locking, unlimited ammo. The fact that you just run up and spam M1 or right trigger and death occurs. How is this not broken. If you eat a pineapple while being sworded doesn’t matter, you’re dead. The sword suck back is INSANE I get hit all the time a good distance away from people.

As for doublegunning if I miss a shot I now have to reload, blundys are not always 1 hit. To blundy you I have to be very close to you and in sword range. So no neither need to be patched it’s a difference in play style and trust me it frustrates DG players as well.

This ^^^