I am very surprised to see that there aren't many posts about this already. So here goes. I typically play on a sloop with a friend. Both of us are pretty average at PvP. But when it comes to trickery and resourcefulness, I'd call us skilled. Ever since the Brig has been introduced to the game, there has been less desire to grind the game. On several occasions we have had a ship full of loot, spot a Brig on the horizon, chase ensues from said bloodthirsty Brig. We quickly realize that no matter how much wind, maneuvering, or trickery we throw at them, they continuously regain any lost ground. Very quickly! No matter how many times I board them, drop their anchor, kill them, or hit them with an explosive barrel, they still find they're way back on our tail with ease. This never happens with a galleon or a sloop. So this begs the question; Why would a ship with more people allowed on board EVER be faster than a ship with a lower capacity? Isn't the intention that all of the ship types are the same speed at full sails? If its not, then it most definitely should be for the sake of balance. You might argue that all crews of two should just run a Brig as to keep the same pace. That logic is quickly debunked by the extra man that the other crews would have, leaving the smaller crews at a completely avoidable disadvantage by making all ships the same speed based on their sail:wind ratio. I'm fairly positive this is a mistake. But after searching this forum for a discussion about it and not finding a peep, its concerning. We'd like to continue to play the game the way we like to play it rather than hopelessly trying to recruit another person in order to run an unbalanced Brig as well.
Brigantine is faster than both sloop and galleon?
@sardukar1234 Haha that would be cool, although I think it would break their theme of the time period we are supposedly playing in. So doubtful to be added.
I also wanted to add that I'm pretty sure the majority of your player base is running a sloop most of the time. Probably a good idea to keep that percentage happy when it comes to game balance!
@sardukar1234 Oh yeah good point. It would really be helpful for sure. You have a full crew, or down to play sometime? Obviously I'm looking to avoid this sloop situation haha.
@stundorn said in Brigantine is faster than both sloop and galleon?:
Sloop fastest Ship against the Wind.
Brigg fastest Ship in the Wind.Yup, that's true.
@sardukar1234 They had knots tied at regular intervals in the rope (forget how far apart they were), which they would throw overboard. When the rope hit the wayer they would turn an hourglass, and someone would count how many knots in the rope went by in a set amout of time(which I also forget). Ots where the nautical speed of knots came from.
As for smaller ships being faster this was not universally true. Larger ships could spread more sail, and because they were heavier they lost less speed when the ocean was rough. Also in storms they were faster, because their masts were tall enough to still catch wind at the bottom of large waves, and the greater inertia they built up going down one wave helped carry them up the next.
@william-flint I think the speeds are well balanced as it is. I wouldn’t want to see all ships have the same speed. The sloop is the slowest because it’s also the most maneuverable, the quickest to raise the anchor, turn the sails, etc.. it’s just all around an easier ship to handle, and loses some top speed to balance that out. The sloop is the fastest when sailing directly into the wind, but if a brig or falls has a skilled crew they can tack back and forth and catch up instead of following directly into the wind
Well, if you want to look at it in a perspective of balance. I would let the brig be as fast as it is simply because it has a host of very awkward drawbacks (Such as the helmsman cannot see the horizon very well due to the ships stature and the first sail. The map is way upfront, etc).
But, the main reason why im OK with the brig as it is, is because it sinks very easily. Most spots that you would hit on the brig leak hard and it only has that one deck. Sure, it is easiest to bail, but then it is also the easiest to board. A brigantine being anchored is a worse faith than a Galleon being anchored, funnily enough.
A lot of really good points made. But I still say the Brig is too fast. My suggestion is that its max speed in the wind be pulled back. If its speed is as 10 right now, I think its should be 8.5 or 9.
Someone said that the galleon is still the fastest ship in the wind. If this is true, then it gets balanced out by the ship size and third sail that you have to keep in the wind. So no problems there.
skullmanbeard points out perfectly the unbalance I am talking about.
@skullmanbeard said in Brigantine is faster than both sloop and galleon?:
The brig is great because it can be manned by 2 men. I'm sure many duos adopted the brig for the extra power and speed. Making the sloop a more solo purpose boat. Sure brig little undermanned. But 2 manning a brig option given to duos is as good as giving a 3 man galley crew a more fitting ship. If i have a mate its brig for sure.
The pros and cons discussed in this thread about the Brig all point towards the Brig being the better ship all around. The only perks that the sloop have are vision and maneuverability. When it comes to PvP there are a few things that people always prioritize first, accuracy(could also be evasion)/speed/power. The Brig is given 2 out of the 3 in most situations, where the sloop only receives evasion(in the form of maneuvering).
Before anyone even tries to argue this point. Let me just say, if you are either chasing or being chased in any scenario... what is the 1 thing you always wish you had more of? Its speed. This speed gives you the opportunity to get close and board, or get far away so they cant board. Then you respond with... "sail into the wind on a sloop".... THAT is way to random of a variable to rest a sloop crews fate on. What happens when "into the wind" is now "into the red", well now suddenly your only remaining option is to give the brig the upper hand with speed. There needs to be a more concrete system for a ships speed and its simple, wind/sail ratio returns a value between 2-10.
@skullmanbeard Also said the Brig makes the sloop a more SOLO purpose boat, which may or may not be true. But it also points out the Brigs unbalance.
One last point, most new players who start this game probably start alone or with a single friend. Regardless, do you think those new players on sloops know that they can be faster than a Brig if they sail into the wind? Most definitely not, its sailing, that player is going to throw it straight into the wind aimlessly and pray to god that the other players give up on the chase. That player will soon find that Brigs bow on top of his stern. Having random and in-obvious mechanics, especially one so close to the foundation of this game, is a horrible idea and will always result in player frustration, confusion, and probably player loss. Its definitely a tough topic, but you could even argue that the sloops should be given advantage because of their lack of players. I guess next time I will try some of your suggestions and see how it goes. But that doesn't change the fact that new players on sloops will have to deal with the same frustrations.
First of all when it comes to maximum speed:
- Galleons are quickest with the wind
- Sloops the quickest against the wind
- Brigantines are exactly between the two
This has been stated by the developers during a stream.
Now, the reason why the Brigantine feels the quickest of them all - Acceleration / Deceleration speeds. The ship is far superior in the sense of how quick it pulls up and how slowly it loses speed - it has the least amount of drag due to its shape. This results in being able to close distances better, as it has an advantage at the beginning, recovers quicker from mistakes (not maximizing the sails at every given moment) and/or disruptions (acceleration) and is not punished as much for them either (deceleration).
If you want you can try it for yourself, set the sails correct and drop them and see how quick you reach max speed and drop the anchor at full speed with the sails down and see how far you glide on (still surprises me each time). Try it out with all three ships and notice how different it is.
Brigantines are very good at being offensive for this reason as it can force the other crew in a battle unless they sail perfectly, as their overall speed is more consistent and therefore gains them ground.
Though I personally would rather be on a Sloop with 2 people vs a Brigantine with 2 people. As quick and cannon heavy as the brigantine might be it is also somewhat of a glass canon and it is easy to force one of its crew below deck to deal with the damage as every single shot that one hits is a vital one. Not to mention I can pretty much sail by myself while having my crew try to disrupt them and put pressure of them having to deal with a boarder. - 3 man brigs are more difficult to counter due to the requirement to keep pressure on them, else they might overwhelm you.
Now to address your last point of a new player doesn't know that they should go against the wind or use their shorter turn circle around shallows and rocks to gain distance. - This is what distinguishes old sailors versus the new recruits.
In a game that has horizontal progression (aka more time does not give you better stats / power / advantages) it is extremely important to have game mechanics like this that reward: experience, knowledge, understanding and execution. All games have a learning curve and a skill cap, don't try to use that as an excuse for why it is unfair or unbalanced - Sailing the Sea of Thieves is a skill and learning the limits and advantages of the ship types are as well.
Interesting that they claim that about the speed, when the Brig is actually faster in practice than the sloop even with a tail wind, at least that's been my experience and have not found a single time when the sloop is faster than a brig even with a good side wind or even abusing the sloops uncanny ability to sail into the wind; the brig just does it all better because it does not flop when a wave hits it. The galleon with a tail wind, its not faster than the brig either, for what ever reason a ship that heavy that should hold speed does not so again in practice its worse..
The only thing the brig does worse than the Sloop is turn under full sail, but you should not be making fast turns under full sail. Outside of that it's a superior ship to solo on by miles because it's easier to bail out, harder to sink, easier to repair in most cases and gets you from point A to point B faster and you're less likely to be bothered by sloops or even galleons because the sloops typically are solo and the Galleon knows they cant catch you.. I mean ever.
I know you think that all hits are "sinking" hits, but they're not because it takes forever to fill a brig enough to sink it.
Heck the brig even for what ever reason plays like it has less hull in the water than the Sloop making it easier to run into shallow water than either the sloop or galleon.
The fact that the brig only really has one deck makes it cake to bail and repair as pointed out, you merely stand in the stair way and bail it out while under sail if you need a fast escape but don't have time to bail. The speed that you can bail because of how much water a bucket holds makes it comically easy to keep the brig floating and man a gun or helm as needed. A few holes are not enough to take any one off the cannons.
Getting to materials to make repairs is cake, making them as stated above also cake. Getting to ammunition and supplies is also ridiculously faster than the galleon, and slightly faster to get wood / food than even the sloop.
It's just the best ship all the way around, and in reality has zero down side. The only thing it does not have on the galleon presently is that the brig has a 3 crew max cap, but that's hardly a loss when it's 5X easier to use while you gain 1 more crew member for the galleon.
So what are the down sides to the brig as it floats? None that I can actually think of because the high speed and easier to handle ship runs rings around a galleon, yield's roughly the same fire power for a typical crew given that not often are 4 cannons running on a galleon.
Furthermore, it's also good to note that the brig also enjoys a lower water line that makes it harder to hit than even the sloop.
As fun as the brig is, and as much as I enjoy that ship, it's honestly the biggest mistake rush job in the game.
An easy solution to fix the brig are as follows.
Slow its maximum speed tail wind speed to slightly slower than the galleon in practice, slow the time to trim the sails slightly and , add a second actual deck to make the profile taller, and reduce its "into the wind" speed to be slower than a sloop while maintaining its slightly faster than the galleon into the wind in practice.
Additionally give it more hull in the water to be half way between the sloop and the galleon so that shallow water is not so simple a task any more.
Presently, the brig is a mess, but it is one thing.. Fun, and I will continue to abuse it.
@swimplatypus7 the brig is actually perfectly balanced in my honest opinion. true it could use another deck for cosmetic reasons thats why we also called the brig 'the banana boat'. but the sloop is much faster when it has wind coming from the front. so is the brig in comparison to the galleon. the brigantine also sinks faster in comparrison to the sloop. so i suggst you get more skilled in boatVSboat combat or review your tactics.
@solestone563412 said in Brigantine is faster than both sloop and galleon?:
Game balance seems okay to me. Ship Speed seems relatively in sync with sail and hull ratio from a physics stand point. No real problem here.
Unless the pursuing crew is "useless" or full of NOOBS you aren't going to ever "lose" your tail in this game with sailing tactics alone. A persistent crew will always be able to stay behind you. But 1 person can sail the Sloop at 99% effectiveness which leaves the second Pirate free to harass them with boarding, anchor drops and powder kegs. Just keep doing this tactic. Go for their anchor and steal their planks. Don't waste time fighting them. Just board and cause chaos. Ever second you stay alive on their ship buys your partner more time to sell something every time you pass an outpost.
If you are any good at sailing then you may not lose them, but they won't catch you either!
Getting tailed in sea of thieves is no problem even solo vs a brig; that's not the real issue, and to avoid promoting exploits I will not detail where I was going with that other than the brig is a smidge too fast.
As for dealing with a tailing ship, it's always very easy to leave your ship set in a good direction, bail off the side, board drop the anchor and die if needed to return to your own securing you enough of a lead to avoid that problem. Again tho, this is not where the brig is over tuned; that's a topic for another time when some one else is silly enough to promote the exploit that can be had due to the brig's speed.
I'll promote "exploits". The game is broken. Squaring your sails like an idiot when sailing into the wind makes you sail faster. This is just knowledge the community should know so they don't die like a p**b to people like me (or make posts about the brig being too fast like this one.) Blame rare for having bad physics. Don't hide the information from the community.
The brig really isn't that unbalanced. Every action takes significantly longer to complete than on a sloop and while people can try to argue the brig is "just as maneuverable" as the sloop the reality is... it's not. The brig requires two full turns of the wheel to achieve the same turn speed. The time to enter a turn is greater. It also will take them much longer to anchor turn. If your plan is to sail in a straight line to lose a brig and you're being caught... it's your own fault for using the ship poorly. Even most mediocre ships will somewhat defend their ladders nowadays. Only children and new players will let you actually board them and drop their anchor.
Can a brig be manned by one player? Sure. Can it be manned effectively? No. Can you sail it around and enjoy superior movement speed while doing voyages? Absolutely. Is it more of a hassle? Yeah. It is. It offers a pretty good balance where it sits as is. All the ships bring different characteristics and I don't find the brig to be broken in any way.
Rare has done a lot of things that are a bad idea like... buffing the eye of reach reload speed without nerfing its dmg by a small amount so you can effectively 2 shot players with a good reload speed and no banana will save you. Or... the original blunderbuss. Or... the entire merchant's alliance. But there's one thing i can say they have not made a bad decision about: ship balance. It's pretty good.
@bottledbuttfart I have been PVPing on the Brig recently and have started to learn the ups and downs. There are downs for sure. The speed advantage " if the crew is working together effectively " is my main tool, and having the extra man, to board the ship makes it a PVP workhorse.
I have been able to deal with many targets effectively but have found Brig on Brig to be the most challenging. Sloop being the second, because of their turning radius, 3rd being gallion.
I have seen and witnessed many indestructible Brigs in my time, and having been on the crew of a few of them, i can tell you that the crew is working overtime to keep that thing floating.
every ship have advantage and disadvantage,
Sloop is nimble but small and lacking of fire power
Brigantine is the fastest but sinks faster then the other but balanced in fire power
Galleon is a fat killing machine four crew and four cannons in each side with the right hands its a beauty but its very slow to maintain bad crew would sink fast@expat-brat Indestructible? In sea of thieves? Lol. The crew can work overtime all they want. That just means the crew is good. A galleon working overtime is going to be just as "indestructible". The only ship that can really be argued as underwhelming in pvp is a sloop. You have one cannon. It is very difficult if not impossible to dunk on a decent crew with one cannon. You essentially have to have your second kill every single player on the enemy ship and then shell it if we're talking more... conventional warfare.
Fact of the matter is though... there's not a ship in this game that can stand up to the rowboat in terms of sheer destructive capability. Yet for some reason I don't see anyone crying OP about that thing.
@bottledbuttfart said in Brigantine is faster than both sloop and galleon?:
@expat-brat Indestructible? In sea of thieves? Lol. The crew can work overtime all they want. That just means the crew is good. A galleon working overtime is going to be just as "indestructible". The only ship that can really be argued as underwhelming in pvp is a sloop. You have one cannon. It is very difficult if not impossible to dunk on a decent crew with one cannon. You essentially have to have your second kill every single player on the enemy ship and then shell it if we're talking more... conventional warfare.
Fact of the matter is though... there's not a ship in this game that can stand up to the rowboat in terms of sheer destructive capability. Yet for some reason I don't see anyone crying OP about that thing.
There are several very questionable exploits out there, but the sails.......... meh, not really and exploit; that's just c**p game physics.
I try to keep das boot on the down low because of just how amusing it really is.. I have sunk more ships in short order with das boot than I have with Sloops, Brigs and Galleons combine.
Ya the sails are common knowledge and that's just craptastic game physics.
Another thing I think is really p**s poor design is the fact that the sloop some how as if by freaking magic takes less of a tossing on rough seas even though it's light weight than the Galleon. The Brig is in the same category as the sloop on this but not to the same degree.. For some reason the lighter ships are better for this but in the any kind of real ocean it's very much the inverse.
Honestly, I sail the brig. If I am sailing alone, I sail the brig, with a friend, the brig, with 2 friends, you guessed it the brig. The only time I sail any other ship is if my arm is twisted and I am sailing on a galleon because we have 4 pirates. Otherwise I sail the brig. The day after the brig came out I went out solo on a sloop. I had already sailed the night before on the brig, but the time it takes to bring up the anchor on the brig and the new, not so good layout of the brigs lower deck made me decide to sail the sloop since I was solo. Shortly after starting my journey I saw a brig in the distance. The gained ground on me so fast it wasn't funny. I did everything I could, anchor turns, sail close to islands and through rocks, even against wind. And they were able to catch me quite easily. The chase lasted less than 20 minutes. And honestly, if not for all the tricks I used, I would have been toast long before that 20 minutes. I have only once been on a sloop since. I have learned how to sail the brig quite well solo. And only a few times have I been caught if someone chases me and I don't feel like PvP that day. And in each of those cases the other brig or galleon were minimally as skilled as I am or had better skill.
I will say that the galleon once up to speed is faster than a brig in straight line sailing. The advantage you have is the maneuverability of a brig is a cross over somewhere between the galleon and the sloop.
I know this is not helpful to the OP, but the fact is that sailing a brig with two people is not that bad. In fact I now prefer it. Even without the presence of PvP, I can get from quest to quest, island to island, so much faster with a brig.
Fun story, I was sailing solo a couple of weeks ago doing an athena, and I found not one but two crying chests. Normally I won't take them if I am solo. But I decided to give it a go, and because it takes slightly longer to fill up a brig, and it is easier to bail than a sloop. I was successfully able to sail with them on board through two other quests without sinking. Can't do that on a sloop. (I did have a rowboat so I kept them on the rowboat and detached the rowboat/took it to the quest islands as I went along).
