Thanks for the mention! Miss sailing with you. And yes, at the end of the day we all play the game in a different way. That’s what makes this game so unique, and makes each encounter special and different.
Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.
What's in a Name?
@Lil-Fokker wrote:
[Rare] keep using words that infer certain ideas.... Pirate / Thief / Reaper
Some players take these words literally and assume that WE MUST KILL EVERYTHING THAT MOVES....CUZ WE'RE PIRATES!!!and @Fundesu wrote:
It's called "Sea of Thieves" not "Sea of Diplomats".
I am heartily sick of people trying to justify their behaviour in game, or arguments for what direction this game should take, based on their interpretation of the title that Rare chose for the game.
I imagine the title was arrived at the end of a long series of discussions, brain-storming sessions, and emails to and fro. The name of the could easily have been something else, such as:
- Captain Flameheart's Revenge
- Sea of Scallywags
- Galleons and Sloops
- Crossed Bones
- Jolly Rogering
- Messing About in Boats
And, if someone had not already taken them... - Black Sails / Black Flag / Pirates of the Caribbean
Some of these names are a bit flippant, but imagine for a moment that Rare had chosen something other than "Sea of Thieves", as it could have quite easily done – and possibly nearly did. Then all those arguments that run "It's called Sea of Thieves – Not Sea of Friends" would evaporate in an instant.
I wish I could I remember where I saw it, now, but one video discussed Rare's initial idea for this game. As I understand it, in the very beginning, Rare wanted to make an open-world, create-your-own-adventure game, with little in the way of a story (i.e. "content") to lead you by the hand. They wanted to give the player an environment and tools in which they could explore, interact with other players, and create their own stories. The Rare team still talk about how they love players using the game in "new and interesting ways" and creating their own stories, with others.
As I understand it, Rare did not start with the pirate theme. They did not start by thinking "Let's make a game about pirates". They started with "Let's make a create-your-own-adventure game". The pirate theme came later.
So, please stop getting hung up on the name that the committee process finally settled on for this game; and using that name to justify what we think the game should be, or how it should be played. Sea of Thieves is not without its flaws, but it's a good, fun game. Let's just enjoy what it is!
@surveyorpete
I am just using the name of the game for the sake of argument. The game was designed to steal people's loot, and the alliance system alienates the players that got attached to the game for it's PvP appeal. I want to play as a pirate. I don't want to play as Indiana Jones. If I did, I'd play Tomb Raider or Uncharted.I am just using the name of the game for the sake of argument. The game was designed to steal people's loot, and the alliance system alienates the players that got attached to the game for it's PvP appeal. I want to play as a pirate. I don't want to play as Indiana Jones. If I did, I'd play Tomb Raider or Uncharted.
That's exactly my point! You are using the name of the game to justify your desire to play as a pirate, your way. The game allows you to "steal people's loot" but who are you to say that was its primary design philosophy? The game also allows you to just hunt pigs if you want to. It also allows you to fight skeleton ships, to bash blue statues, and to form alliances!!! They are as much part of the game's DESIGN as "stealing people's loot".
It is theoretically possible to reach Pirate Legend, and Athena level 10, without ever engaging in any PvP with anyone. That does not sound like a game that was designed to "steal people's loot".
This is not a hardcore game, it just favors hardcore players since turn in loot is easily stolen by hardcore players. If they split the reward system between completion and turn in, it would balance things out. Casuals can suck and still get rewarded and hardcore can be rewarded for their skill with a what they steal. Right now Casuals get trashed by more hardcore players and get nothing but demoralization for their effort.
I have a post on this and other ideas.
@surveyorpete
I think you might be lumping my comments incorrectly....if i'm wrong...my bad.
My perspective is the same as yours....the words being used are just words and don't reflect the expectations of Rare on how the game is to be played.I point out that this game seems to be more of a social experiment where the developers created a world where literally anything can happen and see what individuals do in those situations.
Will they fight, flee, hide, explore, giggle, play music, etc., etc., etc.Case in point...the Reaper's Mark.
It's simply a way to indicate your ship's location.
The name implies GRIM REAPER....but that's not the only use of "Reaper". It also means, person or machine that harvests a crop.
Nothing murderous about that.It's up to the player to decide how it's used.
I see the Reaper's Mark as a peaceful way to tell others my location.
If I were up to no good....I wouldn't want anyone to know my location.
I would want to have the element of surprise....unless I were laying a trap...of course. :)@vifi91
My point is that you didn't argue against it. All you read was my assertion, not my reasons why.@surveyorpete
That's the problem. You aren't a pirate if you don't steal. How could you be considered a legend of something you don't even qualify as. You're just a sailor with a Halloween costume.@droper666
Exactly, it's a hardcore game that's trying to appeal to a casual audience. I play casual games. I loved Kirby Star Allies, but you shouldn't try to be both.@fundesu said in Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.:
I understand from a business standpoint, appealing to a casual audience is the most profitable, but you when you make a game where you can't play offline, you can't stop at any point, and you could lose all of your progress at another player's whim, you cannot appeal to that audience. In trying to do this, you alienate your hardcore audience.
Players should be heavily rewarded for being pirates. In other words, players should be heavily rewarded for sinking ships and stealing loot. Blackbeard isn't well known for his skills solving riddles and delivering bananas, no; he was known for murdering people for gold with his four flintlock pistols and cutlass. That's what made him a legend.
This may be similar to my previous post, but that was long, chaotic and poorly thought out. The reason I'm making this post now is because of the epiphany I had this morning that perfectly sums up my problem with the game. It's a hardcore game that's trying to appeal to too many people. I realized it was hardcore because you can't sit down and play it for a few minutes; it's not Rocket League. You don't find a game and play within three minute intervals. I'm not saying this is a problem, I'm saying that refusing to recognize it is. It is a massively multiplayer rogue-like, an amalgam of two sub-genres that have never been casual. Embrace it.
It is all about time with this game. People whine and say they don't have time to do, say, the Skeleton Ships...it was too much to be required to do it all each week. Do they have time to sink 3-4 hours into a legendary voyage? Where do they find the time at all to play this game. There is no short play session, unless all you do is get in game and socialize...
I also don't get why people think "hardcore" means PvP exclusively. It doesn't.
What it means is that you are dedicated to getting things done as frequently and as fast as you can. Go call someone a hardcore player, and they will never get offended...but you toss out the word casual and the war is on.
@lil-fokker
That makes sense. You know, the black flag with a radiating red skull on it? Yea, it's a symbol of peace.@aod-fluid
I disagree. Hardcore and casual can be compared to another medium of entertainment, film. Horrors and comedy, one gets your heart pounding while the other just lets you relax. This game does not let you relax. You're always on edge because you could lose your entire session's progress on a whim, and when the "Here it is, I'm sinking" moment strikes, you're engaged. When you play casual games, you slouch on the couch and relax. When you play hardcore games, you're at the edge of your seat.I feel like everyone refused to read my post. I never mentioned PvP. I'm saying this game should recognize the type of game it is, and embrace it.
@fundesu said in Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.:
Think you read what I said wrong. I agreed with you for the most part, and pointed out that "hardcore" does not mean "PvP".
@fundesu said in Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.:
@lil-fokker
That makes sense. You know, the black flag with a radiating red skull on it? Yea, it's a symbol of peace.IKR...right!!?
Deviously clever.Although...it's how it's used that really matters.
The pistol, a great anti-skellie machine and my mate uses his pistol to signal his location.....very useful.
The Sword, also a great anti-skellie machine.... and the lunge works wonders for getting back to the boat.
Have the wrong pig in the crate? Give it a cutlass or four and bam....empty crate.Tools have many purposes.
Words have many definitions.
Symbols as well.The swastika is a symbol of well being, good fortune, prosperity, and abundance....for dozens of cultures, if not more. Unfortunately, that symbol has been tarnished for a very long time.
So has the skull.
Red touches at our deepest, psychological, sub conscious triggers that could well go back hundreds of generations....if not more.
But what a pretty color...and so easy to see against the sky...as the storm envelopes you.@aod-fluid
I apologize. You're the first all day. Also, I wish casual wasn't seen as offensive. If it wasn't, not everyone would be attacking me. I have no problem with casual players. I play casual games sometimes too, but I don't think a game can appeal to both audiences unless they took place on separate servers.-
Great, that's good game design. Same way jumping in Spelunky is used for mobility, as a weapon, sometimes simultaneously for both. It's a hardcore game even though the entirety of it is PvE.
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Pirate has only one definition, or at least, one consistent theme: thievery.
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@fundesu
Looks like Rare has made a game that goes beyond the simple definitions.Hardcore...at times... but I find the game very relaxing.
This is not a hardcore game. It's a funcore game.
The design is entirely based around freedom. And part of that freedom is not preventing the player from being able to do something they might want to - such as attacking, killing, thieving... but the game isn't built around those specific dangers as a base. It's built around not preventing those things from taking place.
They balanced that away from being "hardcore" by making it not really matter if you win or lose.This game was made for people to hop on together and have a lot of laughs and chaotic stories to remember and share.
#FUNCORE
Do me a favor please.
Sit back and relax, than try to open your mind and think of someone who doesnt care that much about loosing or dont seriously care for progress at all going afk while even loot is on the Ship.
Imaginable?
Your thoughts are completely one-sided.
Most of the hardcores people thoughts are.
They all think to know it the best and for all and everything yet they predict the future of the game.
I think they also know the future of the world and the whole universell and what we all should do the best now.
And they for sure know what i should play and how and if i can have fun or not.
BS!Thing is your vision ruins my game, the existing game a lot of people are happy with.
And you are one of these players what because of their "hardcore" attitude want to change the game to cater to only your wants and btw ruin the game for others like me.Dude, sorry to say, but your post was just a laugh about someone limited in his ability to see things beeing open to change their own view.
@fundesu I was intrigued by the title of the post and my frist thought "what is this guy talking about?" but after reading the whole post I see where your comming from. You have made a sound argument with a thoughtful observation. Your post marks on the foundamental problem this game has. I do agree that for a casual game it does require a heavy time investment per session. But this isn't all that i find that working agians't the game. I also had concerns when they said this will be a skill based game yet it will not be competive. This confused me a bit as these 2 things normally go hand in hand and was curious how this would work? There are many elements iv'e come across this game that i find to be antetheical in design. Which made me question the devs true intent cause they say things that are in stark contrast to what they deliver. My previeling theory is that the devs absolutly failed to deliver what they wanted due to being short on time and rushing out the game but in such a way to achive somthing truly special by accident. I could be wrong as some pointed out out that all this was intenional and was always meant to be somekind of social experiment but I find this reasoning boarders too close to a conspiracy theory. Anyways what ever the case maybe this has caused a major disconnect as many players comes in thinking one thing and most go away with not being able to make sense of what they're presented with as every experience one has is almost completely unique. This has left a lasting dissonances effect in this ehco chamber of a fourum. Infact this is probably the only game i played where i had Noobs argue to the most experinced players lecturing them on how they should play the game. There are some here that don't see a problem with this and i think at this point no logical argument can be made to convince them. I love this game and had some truly amazing experiences, but i have come to the relization that this game is not only incomplete but also fundamentally flawed. My worries is that this game will become ethier a GAAS Mtx grind fest or a Ship battle arena. Instead of becoming a true PvEvP living world which it has the potential to become.
There are probably as many different opinions of what this game 'should be' as there were motivations for those who chose to live life as a pirate and the different ways they did so, some more successfully than others.
What Sea of Thieves seems to be trying to do, is to emulate the range of possibilities available to anyone who decides to live their life on the high seas. The difficulty is, we have no idea what the end destination of the game looks like so we're trying to encourage it's development in directions we'd like to see.
So far, it's a game that offers a great deal of freedom - you can merchant, you can treasure hunt, you can just sail around exploring shipwrecks and washed up flotsam, you can go to battle against other pirates or the skeleton hordes, you can sail a party boat all across the map and you can do any and all of those in any combination whenever you like.
If you want to be a Blackbeard/ l'Ollonais/N*d Low sort of pirate, you can fight and plunder away to your hearts content and be rewarded in gold, skulls etc and if you want to be a Henry Morgan, you're also able to fight the skellie hordes and keep the world safe. Sparrow would likely be looking for rare treasures and adventures and Drake, Hawkins, Dampier would be off exploring Forsaken Shores.
I'd like to see that freedom and range of content and possibilities not only maintained but enhanced with more choice, so it's basically left to us to decide what sort of legends we become and how our stories are told.
@fundesu said:
Running away makes you less of a pirate legend, yes. Also, I'm not saying they're not feared because they don't want to PvP. They aren't feared because they aren't a threat. They're chihuahuas.
What about the able seaman in a galleon crew that can "hand, reef and steer" with the best of them? He spends all his time at the helm, or trimming the sails, going below to repair the holes, and bailing water. On approaching an island, he is an expert at heaving to, allowing the ship to stop exactly where it needs to be without dropping the anchor. When the crew takes on a skull fort, he is the one that stays on board, ferrying powder kegs up to the crows nest, and watching the horizon for other ships.
But, he hardly touches a cannon, and never attempts to board another ship for a bit of hand-to-hand combat. Even when his own ship is boarded, he stays focused on running the ship while his mates grapple with the attackers.
When this entire crew work their way to becoming Pirate Legends, is our able seaman less entitled than his fellows to the title?
While I quoted you, I do realise that you were paraphrasing others. I merely used your words as an example of what is so often said.
We are in violent agreement. :-)
Do you all know what compromises mean?
COMPROMISES!?!
imo a very usefull thing in general ^^
Some Gamers are a little bit too focused maybe, not willing to do compromises, like some carddrivers are: my car, my street, go away, i have the right all the time to do what i want and how i want, look your behaviour, attitude, your driving style, all about you is wrong - somehow, its not meant offending, but... you know i'm right and you are wrong, because i drive longer than you, more often, i'm more experienced, more capabale of steering and i see the whole thing, i know better about the motor and about building cars and driving them, i'm dedicated to cars eh games eh Sea of Thieves, i played so much i just know better.
I even know better whats better for you and not only for you i know better for all, for Rare, the community, the game.
Just accept it!I feel a lot of gamers are like this and not ready to do compromises.
They 1st take everything very serious thats not just a game or their game, it's a passion, a hobby, something they spent more time with than doing everything else.
True? For some for sure. Playing 5,6,7, or even 10,11,12 hours a day, rush to PL, doing everything in an effective way, else where is the fun? its about optimizing, winning, striving, fulfilling... it's not only about gaming for fun, but the fun comes from doing it the hardcore way and only that way, everybody else is doing it wrong. Unimaginable to see that there are as many ways to have fun as there are players playing.
Ok - i get that. Nobody to blame here, but sorry if i still ask for beeing ready to do compromises in a multiplayer game and wide community of thousands of players with everyone's having it's own goals, sort of fun, style to play, time to play, will to play and whatnot.
At least the game sets the rules, the environment in the game, the features are what limits us or the other way around what makes it possible doing something in the game.
To constantly ask others to change their playstyle or ask Rare to change the game to cater to more to this or that side (PVE Server, PVP Server, horizontal progression, no CC's, more CC's...)
Is just an expression of not accepting things and sometimes it exactly sounds if they are not ready to do compromise, not granting others fun the way they have fun, but wanting to adapt to their wants instead.
The thing that i dislike the most is the argument of beeing more worth, because these people spent more time playing and that their voice is worth more, because they have more knowledge, better skill, more time invested or whatever.
In communities where tons of different peoeple come together it's important to do compromises and sometimes be able to change your point of view.
All the doom talk about SoT is dead feels ridiculous to me, but i know if they continue to rant about the game and become angry disappointed gamers who argue like: They or you have destroyed my pleasure, my game, my all and evrything, the are able to create a shitstorm and turn things bad for all. The game developemt stops and the servers go offline.
Nobody wants this, nor the hardcore neither the casuals or whatever type of player you are who in general likes this game.This post is worthless, but i want to share my thoughts, although i know one of the next answers telme how wrong i am :D
have fun - stun o7
You do sometimes get a reward for Piracy. 30% of the player base are solo players like myself! Keep an eye out for us! Often we have 5k + loot onboard!
Beyond taking other players treasure, what other sort of reward did you have in mind?
I am not even sure what the OP means by a "hardcore" game. Is it because you cannot play for less than 20-30 minutes, to achieve very much at all? Is it because of the PvP aspects? Is it because there are no "save points"?
Here is what I think a HARD CORE Sea of Thieves would look like. Items 1 and 2, I would actually like to see. Items 3 and 4 are more whimsical.
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More realistic sailing physics: No ability to sail closer to the wind than 45°, and no progress when the sails are set wrong. (Being able to sail straight into the wind, with the sail squared is just absurd!)
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Friendly fire is dangerous, especially "friendly" cannon fire. (I do think non-fatal "friendly" cannon fire is silly. After all, if a crew mate detonates a powder keg nearby, that is fatal.)
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No mermaids. If you are far from your ship... swim. Or wait for your crew to come and rescue you. Or die, I guess.
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Sinking (and scuttling) is permanent. If your ship sinks, you kicked from the server, and need to start over.
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Even though I agree with you about it needing to embrace being a hardcore game, the responses you've gotten are a clear indication of how not hardcore the people who play are. 90% of the responses are something like 'well you didnt use the right puctuation therefore your argument is invalid'.
Not a pirate in sight.@surveyorpete said in Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.:
What's in a Name?
@Lil-Fokker wrote:
[Rare] keep using words that infer certain ideas.... Pirate / Thief / Reaper
Some players take these words literally and assume that WE MUST KILL EVERYTHING THAT MOVES....CUZ WE'RE PIRATES!!!and @Fundesu wrote:
It's called "Sea of Thieves" not "Sea of Diplomats".
I am heartily sick of people trying to justify their behaviour in game, or arguments for what direction this game should take, based on their interpretation of the title that Rare chose for the game.
I imagine the title was arrived at the end of a long series of discussions, brain-storming sessions, and emails to and fro. The name of the could easily have been something else, such as:
- Captain Flameheart's Revenge
- Sea of Scallywags
- Galleons and Sloops
- Crossed Bones
- Jolly Rogering
- Messing About in Boats
And, if someone had not already taken them... - Black Sails / Black Flag / Pirates of the Caribbean
Some of these names are a bit flippant, but imagine for a moment that Rare had chosen something other than "Sea of Thieves", as it could have quite easily done – and possibly nearly did. Then all those arguments that run "It's called Sea of Thieves – Not Sea of Friends" would evaporate in an instant.
I wish I could I remember where I saw it, now, but one video discussed Rare's initial idea for this game. As I understand it, in the very beginning, Rare wanted to make an open-world, create-your-own-adventure game, with little in the way of a story (i.e. "content") to lead you by the hand. They wanted to give the player an environment and tools in which they could explore, interact with other players, and create their own stories. The Rare team still talk about how they love players using the game in "new and interesting ways" and creating their own stories, with others.
As I understand it, Rare did not start with the pirate theme. They did not start by thinking "Let's make a game about pirates". They started with "Let's make a create-your-own-adventure game". The pirate theme came later.
So, please stop getting hung up on the name that the committee process finally settled on for this game; and using that name to justify what we think the game should be, or how it should be played. Sea of Thieves is not without its flaws, but it's a good, fun game. Let's just enjoy what it is!
This is complete nonsense, People use it's called sea of thieves as a convenience. The game embraces PvP and PvP causes winners/losers. If you don't like that type of game move on to another type of game.
This game is somwhere between an arena based shooter and a sandbox mmo. Peoples hostility is completely justified as that's part of the game we are playing... hence why they probably went with sea of thieves as a title. It fit the game they made.
This is complete nonsense.
What is complete nonsense? I merely argued – as many others in this thread have – that Sea of Thieves is many things. It is not, and was not ever, intended to be primarily a PvP FPS. That is just one mechanic in the game.
If you don't like that type of game move on to another type of game.
That is kind of my point too. I love Sea of Thieves for its many aspects. Not least because it is not just an "arena based shooter".
If Sea of Thieves does not emphasize and reward PvP enough for you, go play something that does.
...hence why they probably went with sea of thieves as a title. It fit the game they made.
Yes, Sea of "Thieves" – not Sea of "Mindless Killers". Thievery is not Murder.
@surveyorpete said in Sea of Thieves Is A Hardcore Game And Rare Needs To Embrace It.:
This is complete nonsense.
What is complete nonsense? I merely argued – as many others in this thread have – that Sea of Thieves is many things. It is not, and was not ever, intended to be primarily a PvP FPS. That is just one mechanic in the game.
Why would you respond to a single sentence without the rest of the context of my response? This is also nonsense.
If you don't like that type of game move on to another type of game.
That is kind of my point too. I love Sea of Thieves for its many aspects. Not least because it is not just an "arena based shooter".
Oh taken more stuff out of context arguing nonsense against something I didn't even say it was.
If Sea of Thieves does not emphasize and reward PvP enough for you, go play something that does.
Your arguing that saying it's sea of thieves and not sea of friends is somewhat a bad argument, and people shouldn't excuse their behavior.. that entire argument is complete and utter nonsense. It's absurd. Its again a shorthand way of pointing out that the game embraces PvP as a core part of the experience, its not a side experience like WoW arena's where you can PvP when your board of PvE. If you don't like people attacking on site, stealing every plank you have, blowing you ship out of the water with the assortment of cannon balls they found... play a different game.
...hence why they probably went with sea of thieves as a title. It fit the game they made.
Yes, Sea of "Thieves" – not Sea of "Mindless Killers". Thievery is not Murder.
This statement is clueless to how most people will ever enact thievery in this game. This is something that the title doesn't quite explain well but the game mechanics spell it out pretty clearly.
Its video game about pirating and ship battles. The primary way most people are going to experience thievery are going to be losing something while they are dead or stealing something from someone that is dead. Its not like ships have a cloaking device... most people will notice when another crew is taking things and fight back. So yes its not a game about murder, its just mostly armed robbery where it's a lot easier to steal when they are dead. And considering their ship is a spawn point... its really helpful if that isn't around either while your collecting their loot either.
They could have called it anything, they gave it a name that embraces that PvP aspect of the game. So its a completely valid excuse... regardless of where they started when making the game, the product we got to day is Sea of Thieves and not Sea of Friends or Messing About in Boats.
100 / 36
