Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.

This is a clutch idea. I'm fact I would say that bonuses for chests/skulls attached to a voyage should be worth far more than just loot pilfered from ships. Also messages in bottles should be worth huuuge bonuses. These are lost voyages of the guilds, contracts that have no hope with out us pirates.

It would make more balance between the factions. As it is right now, a player could focus just on merchant voyages and earn levels in the other three very accidentally by finding random stuff and looting other ships. Where as the ONLY way to increase merchant with any worth is to do the voyages.

This makes a huge inequity of level progression and play styles. We all end up merchants at some point.

Either a gold chicken needs to be worth 1000-1700 every time or the other guilds need to be nerfed so voyage turn ins matter more.

The only changes I feel is needed is more cosmetics, so people have more incentive to turn stuff in, and 50% Rep once voyage complete, then 50% when turning in stuff. Also the only flaw is more a realism flaw, but reputation is rewarded when the faction sees you complete the task, and technically turning stuff in is completing the voyage, because if the GH send you on a voyage to get them chests, it should be complete once you give them the chests.

@drewbob7 The idea is 50% bonus on voyage complete, but still 100% on turning in. So for instance if handing in all your loot gave you 100 rep, you'd have got 50 on completing the voyage. There isn't a lack of incentive to turn stuff in - there is literally all of the incentive in the world for people to turn in - it represents all of their reward so why would people not want to turn in? :P. There would still be plenty of incentive for people to turn in with this suggestion too.

Realism isn't an issue for me as I don't think reputation functions very much like reputation anyway. If it was you'd gain a significant amount for successfully defeating the Kraken. Reputation would also be something which isn't static - you would have the ability to lose it as much as gain it.

@fancypantzmcgee I think the key part is the bonus in question needs to be awarded on voyage complete, not hand in at an outpost. Otherwise any extra loot rewards will simply make this issue WORSE because you are losing that much more.. People already want to hand in loot, people don't need more incentive to want to get their loot to an outpost.

@savagetwinky Okey doke :) Thanks your sharing your views. At the end of the day Rare won't implement this if they think it will damage their game anyhow. I'm just trying to shine some light on something which many players feel is an issue, and one possible suggestion to combat it. Rare need to be aware of reasons players dislike the idea though so I appreciate you sharing your opinion.

@mubhcaeb78 reducing PvP rewards is a non starter. It's already hard enough to get traction because of pushback that pvpers will be getting relatively less,
but functionally the same amount, they see more incentive to pve as unfair, even though a player who is unaware of how it works currently would never know the difference, and I believe the overall experience would be more enjoyable.

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky I mean personally I think PvP should reward something, the kraken should reward something, I think rewards should be attainable in many other ways than just loot. If people want to complete multiple voyages and ignore their loot turn in that is up to them, it will be literally half the speed it is now because you are only getting 50%... if would be a lot more time consuming and if someone wants to make their life more difficult that's up to them. If it really becomes a problem that because of this change it would be far more efficient for people to just complete voyages and turn nothing in then I'm all for the rep being adjusted. 50% is just a rough figure. Perhaps 40% is better. I don't know, Rare can decide that. Sometimes you are in situations where it's quicker to go to a successive closer island to do another quest, sometimes an outpost is closer, sometimes an outpost is on the way to an island you want to go to... so I really don't think this will be much of an issue personally.

I think your missing where the time will be saved, You don't need to keep people at an island, for chests you can fire one person over to find them, then take a mermaid back. Its just not a simple 50% measurement so you obviously didn't think this through of ways you can optimize progression.

I can respect that, and I do thoroughly enjoy the game, I just like giving myself goals in games. I am not fixated, but I like setting my eyes on something. Having an aim makes me that much more eager to play to achieve something. Sometimes that is a really nice hat I want, or a really nice ship colour, other times it's the more long-term goal of pirate legend. I don't think it's unreasonable that people want to achieve it, Rare introduced a goal post by introducing the concept of PL and so I am not fixated but I would definitely like to get there at some point.

Great, but your hear arguring? If you believe it's a nice to have then the occasional loss shouldn't be a big deal. Since you will rank up over time and hit those goals by continuing to play.

This really isn't an argument to make sure the player is always rewarded for an action in game.

Plus, this isn't just about PL, it's about splitting up the current rewards system a little bit to one which in my mind would be a much healthier experience for someone who prefers voyaging to PvP, or suffers a terrible loss.

I don't think you thought in depth about it. You probably came here a bit frustrated after losing some loot. Your ideas don't seem that consistent and the only governing principle behind it is please make it easier to acquire.

And I don't see how this makes voyaging "better". The progression means nothing if you don't already like voyaging as is. It doesn't unlock new ways to voyage. And it's still an always on PvP game so people that don't like the potential of PvP and loss really aren't fit for this type of game.

And it's just not a terrible loss. Losing a family member is a terrible loss. Failing to protect your assets in a game about protecting your assets is supposed to be an enjoyable and constructive way to lose in competition.

Uh oh. Communication breakdown lol

@angrycoconut16 see I don't agree with hey I finished the mission get rep. If you sink in a storm let's say, and lose your loot, you didn't complete the contract.

Vs. (bonusing voyage items) hey, I got the stuff you wanted guild person, clearly there is a demand, pay me top dollar.

Vs. (messages in a bottle) some puddle jumper lost this contract, I found it and finished it. You client must really want the goods. Pay me the toppiest dollar.

Vs. hey, I have these goods that I...um found...just laying around. No one died in the acquisition I swear. Wanna fence it for me? I get you have to give me a sub-par rate.

Result- PvE stops whining, PvP stops purge and burn every ship as the loot isn't equally rewarding to voyages.

If I am wrong then do me a favor. Fill your solo sloop with white chickens and see if a single galleon bothers looting you.

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16

You're moving the post to allow people to reach pirate legend without returning loot. If the pirate legend is the important aspect of the game to those people the chests become inconsequential. In fact, it probably wouldn't be that worthwhile to even pick them up, just do quests as fast as possible. That's kind of what's happening post pirate legend rep...

I also don't think being fixated on pirate legend is healthy for this game. Just enjoy an adventure with friends and if you lose everything, remember it doesn't negatively impact your next game. It's not like WoW if there is too much PvP in an area you literally can't progress in the story quests.

A few things here. I think his 50 percent of whatever you find is too much. It should be a percent of a level. So like 10 percent of the level you are at, as long as you're doing voyages of the appropriate level, capped values in either end so you can't just get boosted by higher voyages or grind level 1 voyages for the VC screen reward. This would make it so if you wanted to do just voyages, it'd be 500 per faction, if you give around 20 min per if they min max short voyages like they do now with long ones, that's 500 hours, which is nuts, maybe half that is reasonable, but you're gonna be better off also getting turn ins. And I just know the devs would be bragging about it on the next podcast that someone did the entire grind without turn ins, they gave away all their treasure! Aw, how nice! They won't care.
2nd, why should I not have the goal of pirate legend? I've seen this sentiment multiple places, "if you're making the goal pirate legend, you're playing it wrong" (not quoting you, I've seen it though). I feel like this is a cop out on so many levels. First, the devs sold the game on pirate legend. "Becoming pirate legend is the first step on your journey in the golden age of piracy." And many other buzzy phrases like that. 2nd, they were going to, no longer next update but it will still eventually happen, have the best stuff you can do at pirate legend. Just because right now it is lackluster doesn't mean we didn't want to get there to make our own ships, and they talked about getting legendary crews and other things. 3rd, what's wrong with having your goal be one that is clearly laid out to be a prestgious goal, that's like telling a pubg player he's got bad goals to get a chicken dinner, because clearly the game experience is all in the looting and shooting, and why should they get any points for cosmetics if they didn't get a dinner? I'm getting ranty because every system in this game is so completely underused it's frustrating. That's all I care about. Don't put a mysterious cheerleader telling me a goal and then don't give me anything, just move the goal posts. Don't give me voyages with no consequence to cancelling or finishing, either way. Why lock me to 1 voyage but I can stack bottles on top, if finishing or cancelling doesn't matter? Why spend so much time on forts and island design and use 3 forts and none of the caves?

@lotrmith I don't mean some dummy currently playing who doesn't get how it works, I mean someone who picks up fresh would probably have a more enjoyable overall experience, I think they'd still be as likely to PvP for all the reasons people do now, I think if they saw they got something when they finish the voyage they wouldn't even think twice about it, it'd just be an "of course" moment, and they wouldn't think it unfair on either side. But because there is already a (imo broken) system in place, people who wouldn't benefit directly from the change see it as unfair.

@savagetwinky sorry, id format it better, but mobile doest let me edit and formatting doesn't seem to take, just goes into a block. It seemed like your sentiment is going for pirate legend is playing wrong, how is that arguing against someone else. Also, my value was low, could be increased,
but how is it any more worthless than any other reward? It all adds up, I'm just pointing out it couldn't be exploited any more than if you only did sunken ships or only turned in Marauder's chests

@fancypantzmcgee I see what you mean about not completing a contract but I think that depends on the exact level of realism you want in a game. Personally I think the reputation awarded on mission complete is more of a quality of life change for the game, it doesn't really affect realism for me, especially given I know that no matter what happens I will never lose my rep. (If the message in a bottle was indeed a lost contract for instance, you'd expect the original pirate who 'lost' the contract to lose reputation. Or in terms of the game, if a player is sunk during a storm, you'd expect their reputation to go down as they failed to deliver on a contract. This doesn't happen which is why I am not really with the whole 'reputation' thing and see it more as game experience. Personally this doesn't matter to me though)

I also don't think your solution would stop PvE players having an issue, as the entire issue is based around loot being stolen, thus adding more value to said loot will not remove the problem. The white chickens makes no difference, people are already attacked with nothing on board. Some people might be nice, sure, but many players will attack you and kill you even if you don't have loot.

@graiis The thing is, if it is a percent then it will also give more at some levels - a % of a low level is not a lot, a % of a high level is suddenly a lot more. On the other hand a static value of 50% is going to be a lot at low levels, and not a lot at high levels - the opposite, thus it will still decrease with the climb in faction level, as the rewards currently do... Of course, you could just choose a flat % which starts at a certain level and decreases as you increase in level to keep the exact reputation gain similar.. I dunno which is easier, so long as a decent amount of rep is awarded, enough to exert the positive effects I feel this could have, I don't mind how it is implemented.

To be quite honest if people want to grind VC let them, they'll have to put in the work to solve the riddles or kill the skeletons etc.... and if they'd rather get the 50% bonus several times than handing in and getting the 100% base reward then that's up to them, it'll take longer AND they have more loot on their ship which is at risk should they lose it for whatever reason.

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@graiis said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@savagetwinky sorry, id format it better, but mobile doest let me edit and formatting doesn't seem to take, just goes into a block. It seemed like your sentiment is going for pirate legend is playing wrong, how is that arguing against someone else. Also, my value was low, could be increased,
but how is it any more worthless than any other reward? It all adds up, I'm just pointing out it couldn't be exploited any more than if you only did sunken ships or only turned in Marauder's chests

I think my sentiment is pirate legend is a nice to have and... like pubg you should be concerned more with winning in the current game, to get that chicken dinner instead of worrying about what is essentially a gesture for playing a lot. I always look at those benefits like PL to only be a useful thing if your playing for months... and the game hasn't even been out that long... and its not like its super difficult to complete voyages and actually get stuff back to an outpost.

You're right, it isn't difficult to get stuff back. I've never been advocating this idea to reduce loss, you can check all my posts, I know that's part of OPs argument, but if that was the only benefit then I'd be against it, same as I'm not out there saying losers should get to keep a gun between pubg games or something. I want it because I think it would make the game better overall. It would help incentivize all playstyles, starting with actually benefiting from finishing the goals the game hands to you. And then I think the benefits would expand to PvP as there are more people out doing voyages, engaging in the world. The fact that you have to game the system by dropping 'bad' voyages and not do the fun riddles to expect any noticable progress is ridiculous. This change would smooth the rewards across short to long so it's less spikey. Currently shorts are either a reasonable reward or totally worthless depending completely on chest rng that doesn't seem to change as you level.

It's all in perception. Even if functionally they didn't change the reward track, if it feels better because you get some rep when you do what the game tells you, they'll play more. If the game tells you hey get level 5 in all factions, or makes a fanfare when the voyage completes, but then you get nothing, you feel robbed even though nothing was ever coming your way. Highs and lows are part of the experience, but based on the implementation, I'm sure Rare wanted the mysterious stranger to feel cool and voyage complete to feel good.

@angrycoconut16 it would be more at high levels yes, it would keep pace with you, but should it not? You're supposedly clearing more maps, killing red skeletons, more waves before bosses, etc at higher ranks.

@lotrmith what do you mean," why did I say it". You misinterpreted who I meant when I said" a player who doesn't know how the game works now vs how we are proposing it could be" meaning a fresh player who wouldn't know it changed. If Rare had a do over I think they'd get better reactions across the board with this change. PvP wouldn't be calling unfair if the system we propose was in place, it would be normal and the same amount of PvP vs pve would happen but the general audience would like it more. All of this IMO of course. But because there is a status quo PvPers are pushing back because the reward would be relatively, not actually, different.

@savagetwinky after the edit, how is the pubg a bad example, that's exactly what we want! What makes pubg different that people don't treat it as a waste of time after they lose, and there is essentially no progress besides gaining skill and map knowledge? Similar game loop there. Rhetorical questions, obviously.

@savagetwinky said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@graiis

The only reason I'd like the idea is getting people to bother completing voyages but I think there could be better more intelligent ways of getting people to complete quests... like guaranteeing better loot on higher chapters of a voyage...

So with that said I think giving rep is a bad way of solving the major issue of people throwing out dozens of voyages or only going for ones with lots of loot in a small area.

People that depend on progression for fulfillment won't stick around, either they like the gameplay loop or they don't... and eventually, they'll run out of things to progress with. So trying to cater to those players is only going to get them out the door faster.

That could work, but maybe rare is happy with how long current voyages take without adding another chapter to every one. It would be an interesting change for sure. Someone had also suggested the actual voyage map from the captains table also becoming an object after you finish it and you turn that in. I really like that idea. Edit: whoops I meant to quote about the extra chests like Athena's does now

@snipercondriak said in Reputation - loss, risk and negativity.:

@angrycoconut16 I’m with you on this one, progression as it is now is who has the best ship upgrades. I’d like rep points to be put into sub categories, like if your rep is 10-50 you are a “scrounger” if your 51-90 a sailor etc this could be displayed on the little flag on top of the mast .

They have that in the titles essentially