Will the grind kill the game?

@monkey-man-27 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

The grind is the game.
If the grind was shorter and you became pirate legend... Then what?

and as it is right now you become a pirate legend so u can start grinding even more.

What made me sad, how this evolved, I experienced 2 hours ago. Wanted to buy the xbox one x as present for my brother-in-law and looked for some games in the huge store here. I noticed a bunch of people at the info desk who were all complaining about the game even the employees were told to let people know that the fun could be gone within few hours. Well I like this game and enjoyed it and still does but this will scare people straight away. The grind and monotone voyages with random loot will let people move on to other games even though the potential was huge. Once they gone only small numbers come back and give it another chance. :(

The grind isn't bad. I'm starting to hit 40s and it's still moving along just fine.

@brutalpandax said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@silly-old-elf maybe 200 max. ive probably put in about 50 and am 30+ in all 3. probably another 50-80 to be legend. you can't expect to 100% an evolving multiplayer game so soon though.

I would add a zero to your estimates. It really really slows down at 40.

If anyone spends time calculating how much lets say captain's chest it would take you to reach 50 the second you see the actual number you will uninstall the game on the spot. I haven't made the calculation, but I am in the late 30's and captain chests are giving little to no exp and it gets less and less with each level, so I think the number is over 1000 just from 30 to 50.

Many people like grinding (because the progression demands it).

I know it doesn’t apply to SoT kind of progression but grinding is for many people a acceptable thing.

Which is funny because in the early 2000 grinding was supposed to be the biggest failure in gaming industry. lol but then world of warcraft and Modern Warfare happened.

@tundra-793 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

Grinding didn't kill Ultima, or EverQuest. WoW's still thriving, every Korean MMO is 90% grind 10% game and flourishing.

Didn't kill the greatest, hasn't killed the lowest.

Sea of Thieves is going to be just, absolutely fine.

That's because in those games there's an actual progression system, not to mention about a few thousand different ways to level, instead of 4, especially in WoW.

Not to mention every time you complete one or two quests your character got stronger, tougher, better. In SoT, nope, still the same.

It's definitely one of the many reasons SoT is declining.

I think a lot of players would be happier if there was some consistency to the Rewards and quests.

I guess they don't want higher level player's to be able to boost friends.

@tundra-793 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@neller2000 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

That's because in those games there's an actual progression system, not to mention about a few thousand different ways to level, instead of 4, especially in WoW.
Not to mention every time you complete one or two quests your character got stronger, tougher, better. In SoT, nope, still the same.
It's definitely one of the many reasons SoT is declining.

Sure, those games do have more in terms of progression and content, but my point is that grinding, I.E. mundane repetitive tasks, are still a key part of them to progress. And players have no problems with them.
Fetch quests are the best example I can give, e.g. "Go here, kill this, bring me that", that permeate most online games.

And you do not get stronger, tougher or better every one or two quests. Often you're looking at lengthy quest chains, or grinding the same daily quests or dungeons at some point.

The crux of my argument is; Countless popular titles all have grinding to some degree, regardless of content, that hundreds of thousands of players happily engage in daily. Sea of Thieves probably won't be any different.

There's a very big difference. You get zero reward for the grinding process in SoT. There's like almost no comparison.

You get different rewards each quest in WoW. Even lowly ones sometimes have cosmetic rewards that you'll want for later on.

Then of course there's the zones. WoW has like a few hundred different ones, going from temperate, to desert, to snow, to water, to air and on and on. SoT has, well, one zone. No variety.

First time playing WoW, you will NOT get bored going from 0 to 110. I wasn't bored until my 12th character but even then, plenty of different routes to level still.

@tundra-793 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

Grinding didn't kill Ultima, or EverQuest. WoW's still thriving, every Korean MMO is 90% grind 10% game and flourishing.

Didn't kill the greatest, hasn't killed the lowest.

Sea of Thieves is going to be just, absolutely fine.

Did you really just compare the grind of Ultima(Greatest MMO ever imo) Everquest and WoW to SoT's grind of fetch it boy? I don't even understand this...

@tundra-793 K, so after sifting through the rest to find yours, I came across finding out you did not play the classics of any of them and instead played the "Dumbed down" versions. So allow me to educate you on the games you used as examples.

Ultima online, to raise stats or "Grind" as you called it, you had to live your character's life. So that meant, to raise a specific stat, you had to devote yourself to multitude of job professions that the game offered you and in no way was it a grind it was a player choice. To raise profession stats required subprofessions, which once more were player choice so ultima online had no grind, outside of doing tedious thing such as spirit speak to raise intelligence. Stats were capped at a hardcap to prevent people from having maxed out everything, so everyone was either different, or following guides. Basically? It let you be what you wanted to be and the only grind was forged by yourself, not the game.

Everquest, by far one of the hardest and most brutal games to level in existence(In the past) it took ages just to get to level 10, but you felt a feeling of accomplishment when you did. It actually required teamwork to take on orc centurions in a camp, or taking down skeleton bishops on the checkard board, hearing people shout "BOAT!" as you scurried down the zone line trying to make the boat or end up waiting 30 minutes for another, but I won't deny the game was a grind. However, I will say that the grind was rewarded with not only gear, not only stats, but also the accomplishing feeling of "Now I'm strong enough to do this." Which SoT is lacking, completely.

WoW, I cannot say much about WoW, I played vanilla, up to around a lvl 42 warrior at the start and the game was semi broken for warriors at that point and at no point did it feel like a grind. The game had multiple quest varieties, dungeons to do, tradeskills to perform, could goof off in town, battlegrounds didn't exist etc.

All in all, your examples don't make much sense to me. You compared MMO's which have a longer grind for a much better pay out, to SoT which has a monotonous grind of doing the same three things over and over for 0 pay out other than looking snazzy. That is why I said I don't understand.

@tundra-793 yea but Vanilla Everquest's game world was like 10 times bigger than Sea of Thieves'... and had two Oceans!

One ocean alone, "The Ocean of Tears" in Everquest is just a little bit smaller than the entire game world in Sea of Thieves.

Sidenote: "one zone alone" is a fun combination of words

@tundra-793 Like the other guy already said, you can't even begin to compare. Those games had content, enough for years to come.

The storylines of 85% of the quests in WoW alone is sufficient enough reason to do them all, at least once.

I didn't even get into the whole point that there's also 2 opposing factions in WoW, with different towns, cities and areas to play through.

Not to mention the myriad of different classes.

I'm almost tempted to go start a level 1 rogue right now actually instead of playing this pile of c**p wannabe pirate mess.

@tundra-793 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@cpt-peach-beard said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@tundra-793 yea but everquest's game world was like 10 times bigger than Sea of Thieve's... and that was before their first expansion.

One zone alone, "The Ocean of Tears" in Everquest is just a little bit smaller than the entire game world in Sea of Thieves.

Sidenote: "one zone alone" is a fun combination of words

I'll take your word for it, but my point is still; Regardless of content, or as you point out, world size, a lot of the most popular games in history have all had players do repetitive tasks for long periods of time. Most of those games still achieved great success'.

One thing Sea of Thieves has going for it; Free expansions. The world's just going to keep growing, and everyone's free to join.

You're COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that there's only 3 quests in SoT. That's it. All in the same area, with the same goal.

They're not even quests. They're more like the daily quests in WoW that no one likes doing at max level but does them anyway, just because after a few weeks to a month and a half you get a buttload of awesome cosmetics or gear from that faction.

Of course in SoT, you get rewarded with one item and the ability to do them more, repeatedly. Seriously?

Real quests have storylines, in different zones, with different rewards, SoT has none of that, just the same 3 quests.

@tundra-793 I agree, in an MMO you kill rats at level 1 and kill mutant rats at level 100, there's a lot of places to explore while leveling up but once you hit end game everyone collects in the same spot. I said it before on this forum - SoT feels like the end game of a MMO. You skip all the grinding for levels and stats and just do end game activities like pvp, faction rewards etc. Which is fine with me.

@cpt-peach-beard said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@tundra-793 I agree, kill rats at level 1, kill mutant rats at level 100. I said it before on this forum - SoT feels like the end game of a MMO. You skip all the grinding for levels and stats and just do end game activities like pvp, faction rewards etc.

Endgame in MMO's is vast, expansive, exciting, offers TONS of rewards, through lots of tough dungeons and raids.

How can you even begin to compare that to the garbage pile of c**p that SoT is?

You definitely don't "kill rats" at max level, don't be ignorant and stupid please. You obviously have no clue about MMO's or completely dislike playing them.

@tundra-793 since I love talking about EQ :P

one everquest quest didn't get solved for 14 years!!! because of a lot of reasons but one of them was the NPC spawned rarely and only at midnight in an obscure and difficult place to get to.

@captainflintkin said in Will the grind kill the game?:
For me been a pirate legend should not be just because you are the most boring person in the world who spend 500+ hours doing the same thing.

Or, alternately, you're a twitch streamer with over 9,000 followers who do the work for you and send invites when they're about to turn in

@tundra-793 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@kashaarafall said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@tundra-793 K, so after sifting through the rest to find yours, I came across finding out you did not play the classics of any of them and instead played the "Dumbed down" versions. So allow me to educate you on the games you used as examples.

I'm sorry, but when you start a post like this, I lose all motivation to reply.

Because someone hasn't played your idealized versions of games, does not make their overall point irrelevant.
You're also clearly highly biased towards some of the examples I used, so your objectivity is compromised.

I won't be addressing your post in any detail beyond this.

So because I said you played the dumbed down versions, which is what they are, they make the game easier and less of a grind, yet you still consider it a grind, you find it semi offensive and pretty much disregard my post entirely, despite is validity? Makes sense. Enjoy the horse blinders.

@bonzaibingo88 said in Will the grind kill the game?:

@silly-old-elf said in Will the grind kill the game?:

To give some context, I talked with a fort hopper and he said 20+ skull forts from 49-50 in gold hoarders alone.
Seems like endgame will be locked for many players for a long time to come.

...or start giving us XP for successful combat against enemies or other players,(...)...

That would only further encourage griefers.