Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate

  • (I use Deepl for the translation, thank you for taking this into consideration)

    Hello sea of thieves pirates.

    Following the addition of guilds to Sea of Thieves, I rediscovered my interest in the game. But after a few hours of play, something jumped out at me: this update puts the cart before the horse.

    The starting point: safes zones

    Many players were disappointed that there were no safes zones or ceasefire zones in Sea of Thieves. The arguments for this ranged from players complaining about the behaviour of their counterparts to the difficulty of completing quests in peace. The studio's response was very clear: there will be no safes zones. One of the counter-arguments was the piracy code (whether or not it can be enforced is another matter). In December of this year, Rare is going to hammer the point home with the arrival of 'private' game sessions that will allow players to play a single ship on the map. So why would I want to reopen the debate on safes zones, and what's the link with the new guild system? You might ask.

    A new feature with fantastic possibilities: the guild system

    This new system is a great addition that could greatly improve and encourage social interaction between players. Each player can join up to 3 guilds, each of which can accommodate up to 24 players, who can share ships and form crews directly in-game to advance their own guild together. Players are invited to form crews directly in-game within the same game session, or they can join asynchronously by playing in different sessions and at different times. Until now, forming crews meant either that you had a substantial list of friends in the game, that you already had a crew made up of players you knew, or that you had a crew using a third-party website outside your playing hours. With this new system, you can in theory form crews with players you meet much more easily and for more 'profit'. So why start this debate if this system is so great?

    The reality of player interaction in sea of thieves

    Interactions between crews in Sea of Thieves can be roughly divided into three types:

    -confrontation

    -flight

    -association

    At the same time, there are different ways of playing the game. I'd divide them up as follows:

    -Lucrative activities: these are activities that earn gold or any other currency and/or allow a company's reputation to rise. These activities include both PvP and PvE.

    -Non-profit-making but time-consuming activities: I'm including here all the quests aimed at telling the story of sea of thieves.

    -Sandbox activities: I'm including here all activities carried out by players who don't really have any objectives during their game sessions and who therefore feel they have nothing to lose.

    Given that the game offers multiple ways of progressing and achievements and cosmetics to unlock, we can assume that the vast majority of players fall into the first two categories. Especially as the objectives we set ourselves at the start of a game session largely determine our preparation, and not setting any and not preparing anything is rarely rewarding.

    Players in the first category are interested in increasing their profits. For PvP players, this means choosing their victims carefully and defeating them, which is called a confrontation. For PvE players, the first option is to flee, because for them a confrontation is at best a waste of time and at worst the virtual certainty of losing all the loot they have accumulated so far (since a PvE crew is in many ways not as well prepared as a confrontation). If they have to, they'll go for the confrontation.

    Players in the second category will, in theory, systematically flee (see the suicide confrontation). All they have to lose is time and they have no interest in getting involved in any confrontation.

    As we saw earlier, 'private' game sessions will be introduced, but even when we fully accept the possibility of another crew attacking us, we're still playing with a small sword of Damocles hanging over our heads, forcing us to keep a constant eye on the horizon.

    The association takes place on very rare occasions when one or more crews have no real objective and decide to join forces.

    As a result, the overwhelming majority of interactions between players are divided between confrontations and attempts to escape. If you spot a ship (especially one heading your way) you have no way of knowing their intentions, and doubt forces you to make a binary default choice: attack or flee. And even a completely sincere crew with a clean conscience will be shot at on sight most of the time, or will see the other crew running away from them indefinitely.

    Rare was determined to achieve this, and it's fair to say that in this respect it's a success: in Sea of Thieves you can't trust anyone.

    Now that we've said all that, we need to talk about the impact this may have on the guild system and the link with safes zones.

    The cart before the horse

    If we re-evaluate the guild system in the context of social interaction in sea of thieves, it becomes clear that this system will only work outside the game via third-party sites as before. Very few players will get close enough to other crews to send them a guild invitation directly in-game. In practice, this system is unlikely to offer much in the way of new features.

    Why is that? Because the game lacks a meeting place for players where we can simply sit and chat. Before integrating a system that allows players to sign alliances, it is essential to allow them to sit around a table and meet people. In other words, to do what is, in theory, perfectly normal in a multiplayer game that is not solely focused on PvP competition. Of course, you could argue that third-party sites exist for this reason, but a self-respecting multiplayer game must offer quality in-game tools. Sea of Thieves doesn't offer this. For example, you have no way of filtering players according to the language they speak, which is a perfectly normal option in other games.

    If players are to be able to meet without being disturbed by anything, they need to be sure that no one is going to disturb them. That's why we need to add at least one safe zone.

    A safe zone: yes, but how?

    In reality, there would only need to be one safe zone in the game. And it's perfectly possible to add one without unbalancing the game. But before I set out my ideas, I wanted to talk a little about consistency.

    Sea of Thieves offers a relatively well-developed universe with a story that grows richer over time. But I'd like to remind you that if the Lord of Piracy has succeeded in setting up the current system, it's precisely because there are ceasefires. It's impossible to establish any semblance of order without ceasefire zones. Several works dealing with piracy mention a place where pirates take refuge and where rules are imposed to allow this haven to continue to exist.

    What's more, when you start the Sea of Thieves adventure you arrive on the maiden voyage alone aboard a sloop. What's the first thing you'd do in this situation once you've arrived in the Sea of Thieves? You'd go looking for a crew or recruit one. Once again, the game completely neglects this part of piracy, which is extremely damaging.

    So what do we do?

    As I said earlier, in the worst case there would only need to be one safe zone. I can see two possibilities at the moment:

    -Either it's a standalone game session that serves as a waiting area before you embark on the adventure to meet other players. Our character would appear in a room where all you have to do is chat with other players. Ideally, players should be able to select filters including preferences (language, way of playing, etc.) and there should only be between 4 and 8 players per session so that the exchanges make sense. At any time, players from this session could embark on an adventure in a classic game session.

    -Either it's an area integrated directly into the game and added just for that purpose, or modified so that it becomes one. In order not to unbalance the game, this zone would have to be located in a corner of the map and it would therefore not be possible to inflict the slightest injury or move the slightest object (which implies that there would be no loot buyers, of course). Players would only be able to use "social" functions. It might be interesting if players had the option (if they wanted to) of starting their game here, but it's absolutely not a necessity. On the other hand, it would be compulsory to modify the piracy code to prohibit ill-intentioned players from waiting outside the zone to sink ships without booty just for the pleasure of doing a 'spawn kill'. In return, we could perhaps imagine that a ship containing booty would not be allowed to enter the zone.

    My personal preference is for the first option, which I think is the simplest and avoids a lot of debate. What do you think, sea of thieves pirates? Have your say!

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  • No. Want a safe zone, go play Safer Seas.

  • @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    Many players were disappointed that there were no safes zones or ceasefire zones in Sea of Thieves. The arguments for this ranged from players complaining about the behaviour of their counterparts to the difficulty of completing quests in peace. The studio's response was very clear: there will be no safes zones. One of the counter-arguments was the piracy code (whether or not it can be enforced is another matter). In December of this year, Rare is going to hammer the point home with the arrival of 'private' game sessions that will allow players to play a single ship on the map. So why would I want to reopen the debate on safes zones, and what's the link with the new guild system? You might ask.

    Players misunderstanding the objective of the game as well as one of the pirate code articles (I assume it's #3: Disputes Are Settled upon the Waves - which does not mean "don't fight on land") is not a strong start to your argument.

  • @tesiccl a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    No. Want a safe zone, go play Safer Seas.

    Safer seas have nothing to do with the subject here since they will be private gaming sessions... They will not encourage meetings between players. It's quite the opposite.

    @d3adst1ck a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    Many players were disappointed that there were no safes zones or ceasefire zones in Sea of Thieves. The arguments for this ranged from players complaining about the behaviour of their counterparts to the difficulty of completing quests in peace. The studio's response was very clear: there will be no safes zones. One of the counter-arguments was the piracy code (whether or not it can be enforced is another matter). In December of this year, Rare is going to hammer the point home with the arrival of 'private' game sessions that will allow players to play a single ship on the map. So why would I want to reopen the debate on safes zones, and what's the link with the new guild system? You might ask.

    Players misunderstanding the objective of the game as well as one of the pirate code articles (I assume it's #3: Disputes Are Settled upon the Waves - which does not mean "don't fight on land") is not a strong start to your argument.

    It's not my argument but one of many players when the debate on safe zones was at its peak.

  • @diaboulox safe zones don’t belong in this game, it’s an open world PvPvE sandbox. If Rare brought that in, you’d have players hiding in these spots and never go out into the seas. Again, if you want a safe area, go play Safer Seas when it drops, otherwise, it doesn’t belong in game.

  • @tesiccl a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox safe zones don’t belong in this game, it’s an open world PvPvE sandbox. If Rare brought that in, you’d have players hiding in these spots and never go out into the seas. Again, if you want a safe area, go play Safer Seas when it drops, otherwise, it doesn’t belong in game.

    If you had read my entire message you would not have answered me that. Neither the first time nor the second. The two proposals I make take into account what you say. I'm not talking about a safe zone as you imagine.
    Read me, then we'll talk.

  • Ah so basically a sort of lobby similar to the waiting room in the sea dogs tavern before an arena match starts?

  • If you want to see how popular this would be, hang out on the ferry of the damned for awhile and see how many pirates want to just stand around and chat. It's the exact type of safe zone you're asking for and it already exists.

  • @bloodybil a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    Ah so basically a sort of lobby similar to the waiting room in the sea dogs tavern before an arena match starts?

    I was thinking to a thing like that yes.

    @d3adst1ck a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    If you want to see how popular this would be, hang out on the ferry of the damned for awhile and see how many pirates want to just stand around and chat. It's the exact type of safe zone you're asking for and it already exists.

    It's a possibility but it's not its primary function, and it's nowhere near as complete as what I'm proposing. You can't compare two features which have nothing in common in order to measure the interest of a function.

  • @diaboulox I have read it and I still stand by my original reply :)

  • If you want to be friendly, then try it.

  • @tesiccl a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox I have read it and I still stand by my original reply :)

    Okay, I'm very sure of myself when I say that your argument doesn't contradict my proposals and that there's no incompatibility between your way of playing and what I'm proposing. I agree that it's not possible to convince everyone. I deliberately used the term "safe zone" to catch the eye, and I knew it would irritate a few retinas.

  • @racingwither a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    If you want to be friendly, then try it.

    Could you elaborate on this?

  • @diaboulox Im not sure a loading zone is worth the development time. We should be out sailing around.

  • Sail over to the other crew, maybe set off some fireworks and see how they respond. Keep the alliance flag up and let them know that you're friendly.

  • @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox Im not sure a loading zone is worth the development time. We should be out sailing around.

    Perhaps. But on the other hand it leaves room in game sessions for players who want to browse instead of chat.

    @racingwither a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    Sail over to the other crew, maybe set off some fireworks and see how they respond. Keep the alliance flag up and let them know that you're friendly.

    You may be right, but nothing is certain. As I explained, by default, a crew won't take any risks. The only ones who do will be in the minority, and you're cutting yourself off from interesting interactions. If you think that guilds will work for most players in the current state of the game, I can't answer that. I think just the opposite, but only time will tell who's right or wrong.

  • Meanwhile I just want a "PvP zone" with my crew (toggle option anywhere for friendly fire).

  • @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox Im not sure a loading zone is worth the development time. We should be out sailing around.

    Perhaps. But on the other hand it leaves room in game sessions for players who want to browse instead of chat.

    Browse what?

  • @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox Im not sure a loading zone is worth the development time. We should be out sailing around.

    Perhaps. But on the other hand it leaves room in game sessions for players who want to browse instead of chat.

    Browse what?

    Sorry : "navigate instead of chat"

  • We are having a Sea safes added in two months, and you still need safe zones?

  • @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox said in Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate:

    @captain-coel a dit dans Time for guilds: reviving the safe zone debate :

    @diaboulox Im not sure a loading zone is worth the development time. We should be out sailing around.

    Perhaps. But on the other hand it leaves room in game sessions for players who want to browse instead of chat.

    Browse what?

    Sorry : "navigate instead of chat"

    I still dont understand what you are asking for. A mindless lobby doesnt sound fun or worth the time to create.

  • No safe zones. Dealing with running reapers and such is pain enough as is. Running reapers with bounty chests even, two pvp flags and they still run. They just finally killed the red sea players by sending their loot to safe waters, I don't need to deal with these people now running to a new no-fire safe spot. Safer Seas is for those players, no safe zones in normal adventure.

  • To those who do not understand the proposal:

    The OP is essentially asking for an in game chat room. Since most people who play Sea of thieves do not know about the forum, their ability to communicate with other players for in game purposes (e.g. joining guilds) is very limited.

    My own opinion:

    I believe that the first option could work. However, it would require moderation equivalent to that of a forum. Players would need the ability to mute specific players, and there would probably have to be people to moderate those who are repeatedly disrespectful in the safe zone.

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