Dealing with Spawn Campers

i dont really see what problem this solves. if its meant to fix toxic players that spawn camp you for no reason you can report them. everything else is fine

You all have great points, these are all great ways of dealing with Spawn Campers for sure and those out there tucking away with best of them... It's just damn annoying to have to run round the ship every single time you come back to it that's all.

Yep, scuttling and reporting and changing servers are all good interim ways to deal with it but... Wouldn't it be great if it wasn't an issue to begin with? I mean sure, there'd still be many reasons to scuttle, report and change but at least this wouldn't be one of them!

This system would still allow players to board ships and raid supplies, loot and take a few pirates out along the way whilst dealing with those that want to ruin the piratey fun all round!

Won't somebody please think of the piratey fun!!

a few things made camping a non issue for me

Naval:

The amount of crews that are great at close combat and average on naval are rising. I have won a lot of fights where they are without a doubt significantly better pvpers than me but I focused on the naval and not giving a chance to get on.
Naval is so important and it gets neglected far too often with crews.

Easy come easy go:
I'm always ready to leave a server. I've had thousands and thousands of fights and I've made all the mistakes from A-Z. I voluntarily wasted a lot of time on things that made no sense.
Nobody can take anything away from me that I can't just go do again so after it is established that it's over I leave. Camping went from annoying me like it does many to me having literally zero feelings about it. It's a thing that happens and I happily move on when it's time. Efficiency is winning for an adventurer that values gold.

Water under the bridge:
I let it all go within a couple of minutes. No matter what they say, what happened, how I performed, how they performed, how the servers performed, I just let it go because it's not going to matter in the grand scheme of anything significant. Always move forward as fast as possible. I made lots of gold and achieved many goals by moving on, never by dwelling on anything.

Zero emotional attachment to a server:
It's not my server I'm just passing through. Anyone and everyone else can have the space, I'll find a new one. No issues, see ya.

Nothing the devs can do will help as much as an individual coming to terms with loss in piracy. All types of loss in all types of styles. Loss of loot,fights, ego battles are so much easier than most things in life once the emotional investment is voluntarily withdrawn. Treasure is always there to get. None of this is permanent so there really isn't much of a reason to worry too much about it. There is more to find. It's always out there.

Something I think that doesn't get focused on enough in these topics is the fact that most people aren't done with everything. A lot of people still have a lot to do so these losses are not really entirely losses. People are still getting some stuff done during these sessions. Maybe it's not turning in treasure but it can be commendation stuff related to activity, progress for the seasonal renown. Most people are still getting something done even with losses in one way or another.

Worst solution to spawn camping that I have ever heard.
“Surrounded by griefers? Consider this tip… search the crew menu to scuttle the ship!”

If you get spawn camped for longer than five minutes, who’s fault is that, at that point? You have every option to scuttle or leave, and yet the solution is DoT? That just destroys the meta which tends to be:

• Board
• Drop anchor
• Kill the enemy
• Camp until they have sunk/ Loot and supplies taken, etc
  I am firmly against any ideas that make players take random damage on ships.

Spawn camping for no reason is sucky, but what’s not to say the people spawn camping have had an awful day and need to blow of some steam? Sure, doing it on others isn’t okay, but it’s a video game. I’m not trying to defend it, just putting it out there now!

Oh dear, it would seem the idea is less popular than anticipated, no ticker tape parade for me...

Here I was, creating the perfect meta killing system, forcing players to use tactical/varied attacks and put effort in to foster a sense of achievement when victory arrives with its sweet, sweet rewards but alas I hadn't realised the sense of achievement that could be gained from repeatedly doing the same thing, requiring a little luck and little to no skill, mainly preying on new players...

I can see now, that I am wrong and bow to your infinite and glorious wisdom! No longer shall I be so fickle as to suggest improvements when half baked workarounds will do! No longer shall I curse those that camp and kill, for there's will be the kingdom due to their minor inconvenienced days. I shall follow the way of the meta, for the meta is the truth! And only in finding the meta can the pirate truly be fulfilled in all things excepting of the joy, and low, the joy will be lost but the Meta shall remain in true splender!

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

Oh dear, it would seem the idea is less popular than anticipated, no ticker tape parade for me...

Here I was, creating the perfect meta killing system, forcing players to use tactical/varied attacks and put effort in to foster a sense of achievement when victory arrives with its sweet, sweet rewards but alas I hadn't realised the sense of achievement that could be gained from repeatedly doing the same thing, requiring a little luck and little to no skill, mainly preying on new players...

I can see now, that I am wrong and bow to your infinite and glorious wisdom! No longer shall I be so fickle as to suggest improvements when half baked workarounds will do! No longer shall I curse those that camp and kill, for there's will be the kingdom due to their minor inconvenienced days. I shall follow the way of the meta, for the meta is the truth! And only in finding the meta can the pirate truly be fulfilled in all things excepting of the joy, and low, the joy will be lost but the Meta shall remain in true splender!

The sarcasm is strong with this one!

Tell this to jack sparrow and blackbeard

@wsurftvveeds

A thousand apologies mi heartie! Your post was not in when I replied... I feel such the fool!

I also like your buffing, de-buff premise! This system could also work wonderfully and would certainly be an interesting way to deal with game mechanic abuse. This is the type of discussion that could improve a game! But with great inspirational power, insight and critical thinking comes great responsibility! Well maybe not but it's sounds fun to say. Initially I thought of a de-buff system but didn't think of buffing at the same time! Genius, or maybe a combination where the DoT only kicks in after the first kill but doesn't stack or accumulate and the buff, de-buff system kicks in with incremental increases upon additional kills up to maybe 15%? 15 de-buff, 15 buff, 30% total offset... It would add an additional layer of depth to the combat system without being difficult to understand and would still only affect those relying heavily on the meta, or spawn camping in general.

I am well aware that nearly everyone offended by this discussion is likely using this tactic or something similar after all, this wouldn't harm anyone that wasn't applying this method of attack.

And yes, I am more than capable of defending myself, I'm not concerned about losing loot, it comes and it goes but it evens out eventually. The combat is all kinds of Janky which is way too over exploited by VETs!

What do I care about? Playing with friends! which is becoming increasingly difficult due to the prevalence of... Spawn camping, yep, the rhetoric is always the same...

"What's the point, sitting on a ship being killed immediately after spawning, switching servers to find the same thing again and again and again... It's not fun" they aren't wrong but if your lucky you can also find an outpost camper too ha ha

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

I am well aware that nearly everyone offended by this discussion is likely using this tactic or something similar after all, this wouldn't harm anyone that wasn't applying this method of attack.

I don’t see anyone saying they are offended. Just people who disagree with your solution or that you are even addressing a problem in the game. So anyone who disagrees with you that this is a problem is just part of the bad crowd, so their input is not valid? “Most of the people who are opposed to these searches have something to hide.” That kind sophistry and rhetoric gets used a lot to push an agenda. If you can find any evidence of me tucking or spawn killing then you let me know. I am a below average player at this point and rarely board ships. With that said, I think your suggestion is awful and unnecessary.

"What's the point, sitting on a ship being killed immediately after spawning, switching servers to find the same thing again and again and again... It's not fun" they aren't wrong but if your lucky you can also find an outpost camper too ha ha

People do not camp outposts. I am not saying someone might not try it, but they will get bored very quickly. It is a horrible strategy for making any progress. There are five ships at most on a server and seven places to turn in loot (Golden Sands is currently not open for business). The odds are someone will have to wait at an outpost for quite a while before anyone spawns at or uses that particular outpost. What’s much more likely is a crew anticipates where another crew is going (e.g., closest outpost to the fort they just finished), or they were already there when they saw the ship arriving, so they created an ambush. That’s not outpost camping. That’s just good strategy.

The game does a pretty good job spawning new ships to the server on outposts away from other players. It would be very unusual to spawn at an outpost that has another crew already on it.

@ghostpaw

Ah ghostpaw, I applaud your ability to take minor points from an overall discussion and generate a non-informative reply entirely out of context from the thread of conversation based on your opinion in an attempt to derail discussion, it is a dying art form... If you discount every forum, chat space or most conversations ever of course!

Definitions for consideration

Offended - resentful or annoyed, typically as a result of a perceived insult.

Implied - suggested but not directly expressed.

I feel it is worth mentioning that it is possible for people to be offended without mentioning it directly, it is also ok to be offended... nothing happens, it's fine and quite normal.

Now taking into account that the proposed system would have little effect to anyone playing the game in general, boarding, tucking, killing, sinking... All still fine, the only person(s) expected to be resentful or annoyed by this are those employing the tactics, it is therefore implied by way of a negative response (that neither aids nor progresses discussion) that they have been offended enough to take time to respond in a derogatory manner.

On the front of generating evidence that this is a problem, no direct evidence is required by myself. If by miracles on high, you are the only player to never suffer this issue, then a cursory glance at other posts should enlighten you to the plight of others, a response of scuttling or switching servers denotes a person that came across this issue others have also mentioned the issue directly! Madness I know, who knew that understanding context and extrapolating from direct insight could lead to such revelations... But I digress.

Outpost campers on the other hand are very real and quite annoying, no-one was saying it was a good tactic (you'll notice the title is dealing with Spawn Campers, not Outpost Campers... I can see how that would be easy to miss). Suggesting they would only camp a singular outpost may be where you're missing it, anyone camping a single outpost clearly has nothing better to do and needs serious help with the game! Given your response and lack of concern with these tactics... I am starting to think you may have a permanent connection to the server of kings! Please advise how the rest of us can join you, most of is would love to play in the same utopia as you!

The fact (not opinion) remains, that this activity exists (for everyone except you of course). My opinion (not fact) is that it damages the moral of gamers and limits environmental engagement and atmosphere. Now I may be mistaken, and given the responses to this thread I routinely am, but (and I am going to go out on a limb) I would suggest that developers in general prefer to create games that foster engagement and player base retention, not reduce it, and therefore it is implied that an activity that generally reduces engagement and moral consistently could be considered an issue that requires correction?

It is probably also worth noting that an inability to perceive or understand a problem does not in fact (not opinion) negate it's existence. There are undoubtedly many people around me that have all manner of problems, I am not aware of nor can I perceive their issues and even if I could, I may not understand them but alas, they continue to exist regardless of my belief in them... Such is the fickle nature of the universe! How nice it would be to live in a universe where ignoring issues made them go away but here we are, stuck in this universe, with this game that happens to have this problem that no amount of ignoring or not believing in will correct! My heart yearns for the other less complex universe but for now I'll stick with this one since, well you know... It exists!

@ghostpaw

Also Sophistry! Outstanding word, I genuinely cannot help but be impressed by this, I don't hear it nearly enough 👌💯

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

I am well aware that nearly everyone offended by this discussion is likely using this tactic or something similar after all, this wouldn't harm anyone that wasn't applying this method of attack.

This is a manipulative way to go about trying to get something you want.

Approach to interacting with others has significant impact on how interactions go.

If you approach piracy like you do conversations in your thread it's possible you are escalating situations, which often leads to more camping. That would be counter productive to your goal of reducing the amount of times you experience spawn camping.

@wolfmanbush please see response to this above

@wolfmanbush

Also:

Naval:

The amount of crews that are great at close combat and average on naval are rising. I have won a lot of fights where they are without a doubt significantly better pvpers than me but I focused on the naval and not giving a chance to get on.
Naval is so important and it gets neglected far too often with crews.

You are certainly correct in your observation that the close combat encounters are increasing however if implemented correctly, a system of DoT or Buff would promote increased naval engagement too which should rebalance the position on the high seas, I can't remember the last time I managed to have an entirely naval engagement via PvP... Not saying it's preferred play style by any stretch but it used to be a nice change of pace now and then.

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

@wolfmanbush

Also:

Naval:

The amount of crews that are great at close combat and average on naval are rising. I have won a lot of fights where they are without a doubt significantly better pvpers than me but I focused on the naval and not giving a chance to get on.
Naval is so important and it gets neglected far too often with crews.

You are certainly correct in your observation that the close combat encounters are increasing however if implemented correctly, a system of DoT or Buff would promote increased naval engagement too which should rebalance the position on the high seas, I can't remember the last time I managed to have an entirely naval engagement via PvP... Not saying it's preferred play style by any stretch but it used to be a nice change of pace now and then.

I sail because people aren't controlled. They have freedom to play how they want. People mildly annoy me all the time, that's just a part of being human but not something that should lead to interference to cater to me.

I want an experience where people are doing what they want because it gives me the opportunity to do what I want.

Once they come in and start chipping away at how some play to cater to how others want them to play it's only a matter of time before it happens again, then again.

The cost of piratical freedom is preference and personality clashing. To me it's worth the price to truly let people play how they want to play. The less interference the better when it comes to styles of play imo.

You say it's promoting but it's controlling a skill set that people prefer and have sharpened. Incentives are to draw people in, to get them to opt in.
When changes are implemented to cater to one side and nerf another it's not promoting or incentivizing it's just controlling through interference.

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

Ah ghostpaw, I applaud your ability to take minor points from an overall discussion

Just trying to cut through some of the noise and get to the core of the matter. I hope you are not offended by it.

@gleonigby said in Dealing with Spawn Campers:

@ghostpaw

Also Sophistry! Outstanding word, I genuinely cannot help but be impressed by this, I don't hear it nearly enough 👌💯

I expect you will see it used much more often going forward.

@wolfmanbush

Although I don't agree with you position on this particular matter I can certainly respect why you would take that stance and agree with your point of view in the general sense.

I think that where our points of view differ may be lie in our stance on the subject in general, what you see as a skill that has been honed, I view as exploitation of fundamental game mechanics and just generally poor sportsmanship (even pirates had a code). Potentially this game mechanic was left in intentionally and is a feature, I have to say I have my doubts though as it would seem counter intuitive to the games longevity... can you name any successful FPS that didn't deal with spawn camping?

I mean it isn't anywhere near as prevalent in this game since you can simply scuttle or change server but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, what if it wasn't an issue to begin with? What if this minor change (and it is minor really) opened up an entirely new tactical game mechanic? People can play in the ways they already do including spawn camping to an extent given enough skill if only a combination of DoT and/or Buff is applied but they will suffer a fair handicap as with wsurftveed's idea of Vengeance of the Damned but be able to continue on their merry way.

I mean it's not like I suggested that all attacking pirates suffer insta-death, the current crew gain 5 minutes of invulnerability and the attacking ship explodes! Merely a slight balance adjustment that only affects those bent on ruining the game and driving the player base away!

Again, don't disagree that nerfing is not the future of any game but I would certainly say that this would indeed be an incentive to find alternate approaches to taking down an enemy in that the previous approach could still be used but the incentive would be to find a differing approach on the occasion that spawn camping would ultimately be detrimental to the overall outcome of the encounter.

@ghostpaw

You appeared to miss TL;DR from your comment there...

Thank you, your clear inability to grasp basic sarcasm and then doubling down and entirely missing the irony in your point about sophistry, even after pointing out the word to you specifically is the best gift!

Thank you you legend and don't worry, one of these days you will join a conversation in which your word of the day calendar will make everyone else sit back in awe of your superiority in all things, just give it time, it'll happen for you.

As to taking offence, I shall leave 2 quotes from rather accomplished historical figures for you to ruminate on:

"He who takes offence when offense is not intended is a fool, yet he who takes offense when offense is intended is an even greater fool for he has succumbed to the will of his adversary"

"A fool contributes nothing worth hearing and takes offense at everything"

I am no fool but judging by a general lack of worthwhile contribution from your good self... it would appear that Aristotle may have your number! Not me though, I know you definitely have an ace up your sleeve, you have clearly been taking the additional time to write a worthwhile contribution to match your previous profound statement "I think your suggestion is awful and unnecessary" (see what I did there, borrowing your words slightly out of context... it's fun). I shall await with baited breath your detailed insight into how this solution is "awful and unnecessary". I can feel my skin tingling already with the weight of knowledge you're about to impart on the word!! I hope everyone is braced for such magnificence.

@lackbarwastaken

This is literally the funniest thing I've read all day, I am still laughing at the suggestion of Pirate Aids!! I can see the rhyme for it now

"On enemy ship spawn campers beware, lest crewmates find out pirate aids be there!"

Amazing!