Sloop Needs to Be Faster

@schwammlgott what you are referring to is called tacking, and that obviously doesn't work.

But you aren't thinking about the game world as a finite space. You will eventually need to turn in a sloop so you are with the wind (and thus now the slowest boat), or waste hours going with the wind in a circle if you are lucky (in which case, a competent crew can cut through the circle to catch you).

The reasons I mentioned are the reasons to make it faster, it helps both sides of the issue. Can you name a reason that it would hurt the game because I only named reasons it would help. My only thought is that it could make sloops more popular, and ya know what, that's honestly fine because if people start having a better time because of the change, then it was a good change even if those indifferent to the issue don't get it.

@schwammlgott If your fine wasting your time running from another ship until they possibly give up, then you have too much time on your hands. Sloops are hearty fighters don't get me wrong, they are nimble and enjoyable in a ship fight. Less so when you are frequently boarded once you decide to stand your ground. If you are able to guard ladders that's great, but generally speaking, you are busy repairing, bailing, steering, or shooting back. My point isn't that sloops aren't good in a fight, it's that they have less choice then other ships of when to engage in one.

Right now, sloops have to give up if they want to chase a larger boat because that larger boat can just go with the wind in 3 out of 4 cardinal directions to escape. Sloops can only do so in one direction, which ultimately will lead to a dead end.

My solution equalizes this imbalance.

@corcorcory I know how to sail a sloop, been doing it since day 1, but just because there are tips and tricks I can check out on YouTube doesn't mean those tips and tricks adequately address a fundamental injustice.

It's a bit hard to understand what you are saying but I assume you are talking about the glitch of squaring your sails and not touching them when you spawn in?

@schwammlgott Yes, you are right. I didn't want to include all the conditions I would include on buffing the sloop speed in the original post to not confuse the issue, but my recommendation would be that the sloop would need to behave as it currently does until hitting a certain threshold speed, then it would need to adopt brig attributes above that speed.

Acceleration, turning should all stay the same below that threshold, but in a straight line, top speed should be raised and the maneuverability would need to lower. This is the gap closing capability sloops need, and would also help them traverse quicker in general more in line with other ships.

I agree that balancing would need to occur again, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor because there are a lot of solo players, sloop players out there, and I think they need some love. That's about it, I just want what's best for the game, and think this is the crux of the issue most overlooked.

Sloop is fast enough as it is. Its really easy to escape bigger ships.

@calicorsaircat

If you rely only on speed, you are not that good of a sailor or understand how a sloop is supposed to act in a chase. If the only trick in your book is to head against the wind, you are not using the mobility of a sloop properly. If you just go in a straight line the map will end and you will be forced to turn instead of doing it on your terms. Use your turn speed, your low profile and the environment and you can run circles around your targets. Personally I have literally circled the same 3 islands with a brig on me as a solo for like 45 minutes of which one was an outpost on which I sold things. In the end they just left the moment a new set of sails appeared on the horizon.

The fact is that chases are not about outrunning your opponent, they have never been - if you are on a galleon, brig or sloop. It is about breaking their will to keep chasing you, as the world isn't that big and if you want you can just keep following anyone. Go in a straight line and they won't give up. Make them work for it and most hunters will head out onto a new target and if they don't you should be able to be hopping past outpost to sell anything you care about without much issues.

If you want a fast ship, just pick the brig. It is easy enough to solo.

@viperishemu2992 why would it break the balance exactly?

being able to keep up with larger boats when heading in a straight line?

When you are both in shallow waters, the use of the harpoon has just about removed the advantage the sloop has in terms of maneuvering. Their turn radius is the only thing they have, and again, it's meaningless if you are boarded and anchored, something faster boats are great at doing.

@cotu42 Harpoons have just about removed any maneuverability advantage the sloop has with sails down. Use any terrain to your advantage, and they will do the same. Your only recourse is to then as you said, waste their time (and yours). When it was just loot, that was fine, you can find ways to offload it. Now with emissaries, they have a reason to continue the chase even after you dump your loot. You have to stand and fight (and generally will lose against larger ships), which is why I recommend, never fly an emissary flag on a sloop, or just don't sail a sloop at all honestly. See arena split by ship type for evidence of sloops inferiority.

I think your characterization of the issue leaves out the human reason why ships chase at all.

They chase you because they believe they have the advantage and will eventually triumph. I'd argue most of the time, larger ships are right in that belief and more likely to hold that belief, and smaller ships pursuing are wrong in that belief assuming crews are of equal skill. The bigger is better mentality certainly is at play here, but I think it is actually a conscience knowledge that all ships are easy to kill if you board them, and larger ships have the speed and crew size best equipped for that meta. If suddenly a bunch of sandbars were added to the game everywhere, then I might agree with you that sloops have plenty of places to use their maneuverability advantage.

I'd like to make the game agnostic when it comes to top speed so crews can decide for themselves based on the situation (not the ship they queued into) if it is worthwhile to pick a fight or to keep their distance. Right now, larger ships get to decide for smaller ships how much time to waste, and that is just unacceptable.

I do brig solo, and it's the only reason I still play the game. I even galleon solo'd when the kraken was briefly removed. Crew size is most important, but if you can't have that, speed is your next biggest ally in the boarding meta.

From a balancing perspective, giving a ship the ability to escape all encounters does the opposite. No ship is meant to be a PvE escape vessel.

@nabberwar Does making the sloop the same speed as other ships allow them to escape at all times? Please enlighten me how allowing sloops to keep their distance from other ships makes them a PvE escape vessel.

Is it unfair that a brig is the same speed as a brig?

I'd actually like to see more aggressive sloops and more PVP, which this would also accomplish. I haven't read a single reason why making them brig like at top speed makes them OP. It makes them not prey for bigger ships is what it does.

What about sloops chasing brigs and galleons, is that balanced right now? They can escape all encounters from sloops by the same logic (faster), that seems hypocritical.

I have read in this post that most seem to think top speed of the sloop has very little to do with PVP proficiency since maneuverability is where the sloop shines, and increasing speed may even hurt it. I think they are right. So it would become OP because what?

Maybe it would be too easy for sloops to keep the wind since they have only one sail to deal with, but that is easily mitigated as well (takes longer to adjust sail the faster you are moving). Sloops are just in a weird place, both loved by the community and hated by Rare.

@calicorsaircat

I am going to make the other team work for it, I am going to break their will and the only way to catch me is by out playing me. Use the terrain and others will to, yeah... that is the point: work for it, out play me. Harpoons haven't stopped my ability to do this, your argument is not based on anything. Btw small tip; shoot the harpoon if they hook on to you.

The reason why someone chases is not my concern, I cannot change their reasoning or their actions. They can believe they have the advantage and will triumph, yet the only people that will catch me are people that out play me. Btw. most of the time I know exactly why people would want to chase me, I hate selling... it is literally the worst most boring part of my journey. I display my loot out on my deck for all to see the glistering in the sun or the glow of the souls. I have done dozens of Athena voyages where I sell at the very end and have never lost a single Athena chest and sometimes I just engage in the fight with 20, 30, 40k loot on board just because why not. As the pirate lord says: it isn't about the gold it is about the journey. Being chases while solo on a sloop is one of the most fun things to do in this game. Once I had my enjoyment, I have secured what I want to do... I tend to go in and fight! Because guess what, the sloop is the best solo combat vessel in the game in my opinion. Unless you out class me, you will not engage in combat with me unless I choose to fight you or I mess up.

You want to convert the sloop into a smaller brig, more speed while less nimble. Just play the ship that suits you, but the sloop is strong and totally capable to avoid any fight with just a single pirate. I don't solo a brig, because I don't necessarily want to run and if I do I can on a sloop. The funny thing is your remarks make me think of those crews that give up on chasing me, to lazy to keep up. Want to get rid of the chasers as a sloop, you have to work for it and the more work you put into it the more work the other side has to do to match you, while dealing with boarders the benefit of being chased! In the hands of a duo the sloop is a powerhouse, as a solo it is the most fun ship to sail in an encounter with other pirates. Catch me if you can!

I've always loved the sandbar/reef idea. Realistically, shallow drafts is where smaller vessels would have the advantage.

I agree that harpoons have eliminated most of the advantage sloops had over other ships.

@cotu42 harpooning the ocean floor is what I am referring to so you can make abnormally fast turns. there's a small tip for you.

Your loot on deck remarks don't impress me. It's easy to say you are a PVP god without having to prove it here, but when you spend your main body of your reply bragging about being able to outplay people, it's pretty telling where your biases are.

Obviously input = output when it comes to juking pursuing ships of the same ship type. My point is that sloops have to have larger input for the same output as larger ships. You have to juke hard to gain back the distance they can put on you when there isn't any terrain to use to juke. It's arguable that sloops are better at juking to make the extra input manageable, but I disagree (harpoon evens the playing field, juking spots can also be good boarding opportunities for pursuing ship).

You may not be able to change their reasoning, but what you can do is change the underlying injustice. I think everything else about the sloop is great; PVP capability, nimbleness etc, though I think it should also sink faster. Top speed is where it really starts to fall apart.

@calicorsaircat

Bigger ships require more input not less. You have more hands on deck! If you are making the argument; Solo is the most difficult... yeah but a sloop is also meant to be manned by two people not one.

My entire strategy and feeling about the sloop is because even by myself I can make sure that they have to have 2 people on a brig, or 3 people on a galleon perform at least as many actions as me in coordination with each other, to compensate just to keep up... If you are complaining that a full crew can out perform a undermanned crew, well duh... you choose to be a man down - that is regardless of the ship you are on, you cannot run at the same capacity with a man down regardless of the ship you are on. Sloops with a full crew have the ability to run their ship on full capacity while having one person able to pretty much go full offensive or help out on the ship for an even bigger boost, ever done an anchor turn with 2 on a sloop... it is doable with one, with 2 it is so incredibly fast.

I would love to see you manage a brig or a galleon as a solo and be as efficient and keep up. It takes less actions to man properly... would love to see you harpoon that ground and steer and manage the multi setup of sails on those decks. If they take less actions to run, then why not solo on those?

If you want to solo, you are accepting that you are in an undermanned ship. There is no true solo ship, but the sloop does allow you to sail it properly to pick your battles and actually fight. All you care about is speed, then the brigantine is your choice. To me it is gimped, as it bounds me totally to the ship since it is more work to manage at full speeds when alone and to be honest I love to have the ability to jump off and practice my boarding, anchor them and all that even as a solo. Those moments where they go and focus on harpooning the rock that I just past, etc... tend to be the windows where ladders are undefended. My goal is not to only be able to run, but to have the choice of engaging or not! Btw. yeah I do harpoon the floor, rock etc on a sloop as well: all ships have that benefit! Means I don't need to steer right after and just hop off the front of my ship (sneaky sneaky).

Btw. where am I claiming to be a PvP god? Because I fight with loot after I have ensured that I cashed in what I care about? Pffff.... you are misreading it man, I am good a PVE, how else did I cover the ship with goodies - it isn't stolen I am the one being chased! I can pay attention, sail and run! I am good at avoiding the fight and only fight when I want to... never stated that I win all my battles that I engage in. I am good at avoiding the battle and only fighting on my terms; I figure out if they are any good, if they are any good at PvP I tend to run and not fight, though many crews aren't that good and then I go have some fun! I think the most common phrase I hear is along the lines of: Why are you running? Stop running you... usually with a bit more colorful languages. The most funny one I heard was: How are you a pirate legend if you cannot even fight, while they were unable to catch my ship or board a single time!

There is an injustice that you apply if you solo, not the other way around. It is your choice to be a man down! Are you struggling to play alone? Get a friend, or 2 or 3... this is in the end a crew based game.

@calicorsaircat So you want to make an already awesome ship, make it go faster as to not let the galleons and brigs catch up to you, all so that your castaways are safe??

No. The sloop is balanced enough against the brig and galleon, and the same for them too. However, if you learned how to sail, such as angling the sails and using the harpoons, you could avoid situations like this. I have used harpoons many times to evade other players, and I have yet to be disappointed with them.

@supersnipper60 yes, because sloops can't even chase brigs or gally's and steal their castaways. If you played the game you would know that. I'd love to see you catch up to brigs using those harpoons. It works both ways, they can use them to evade you as well. Ship speed needs to be equalized as well so sloops can either A) flee from the superior ship, or B) sink inferior crews, whichever side of the argument you are on. Sloops shouldn't always be forced to run, but with their current lackluster speed, they can't if they tried.

@calicorsaircat said in Sloop Needs to Be Faster:

@supersnipper60 yes, because sloops can't even chase brigs or gally's and steal their castaways. If you played the game you would know that. I'd love to see you catch up to brigs using those harpoons. It works both ways, they can use them to evade you as well. Ship speed needs to be equalized as well so sloops can either A) flee from the superior ship, or B) sink inferior crews, whichever side of the argument you are on. Sloops shouldn't always be forced to run, but with their current lackluster speed, they can't if they tried.

I have caught up to brigs and galleons with no problem. I have played the game, and used my head to figure out the best strategies to catch enemy players. Sloops are equalized to A) flee from superior ships, and B) sink inferior crews. Sloops aren't 'forced' to run. It is the captain's choice to run. With their current speed, a skilled player can evade other pirates.

I'm ok with the sloop being a bit faster with wind. It's also the ship more affected by the waves.

@odyssee-mit-tee said in Sloop Needs to Be Faster:

@supersnipper60 sagte in Sloop Needs to Be Faster:

@calicorsaircat said in Sloop Needs to Be Faster:

@supersnipper60 yes, because sloops can't even chase brigs or gally's and steal their castaways. If you played the game you would know that. I'd love to see you catch up to brigs using those harpoons. It works both ways, they can use them to evade you as well. Ship speed needs to be equalized as well so sloops can either A) flee from the superior ship, or B) sink inferior crews, whichever side of the argument you are on. Sloops shouldn't always be forced to run, but with their current lackluster speed, they can't if they tried.

I have caught up to brigs and galleons with no problem. I have played the game, and used my head to figure out the best strategies to catch enemy players. Sloops are equalized to A) flee from superior ships, and B) sink inferior crews. Sloops aren't 'forced' to run. It is the captain's choice to run. With their current speed, a skilled player can evade other pirates.

Famous last words.
Two people cannon shoot in front of you, board you at once and you are forced to see the no-skill swordvortex of doom if you cannot get them both off at once.

Why would I let another ship get in front of me? Blunderbombs are good against boarders.

@viperishemu2992 then I ask you the same question I asked him, read the above post for the full explanation:

Where do I claim to be a PvP god? Gathers enough treasure to cover the ship with goodies is done through PvE, at least for me. If I am going to make a claim of being good it would be on being good at PvE. Am I a coward? Maybe, I can flee like the best and won't fight unless I have nothing that I care about to lose.

I rather be a coward that brags about being a pinata of loot for all to steal and feel confident in my own abilities to achieve what I want in the game, than being someone that believes they know everything and yet needs the game to adapt to achieve their goals in an open world game.

Take the sloop right to the edge of a big island. Galleons and Brig's are not even close to being as maneuverable as a sloop. Take your ship close to an island, turn it, get it to position and light them up.

Your ship has advantages... use them. Sloop doesn't need to be faster, you need to use the strengths of the sloop correctly.

Use forts, towers and skeleton canons to your advantage as well as the island itself. Bootleg turn with the harpoon, use small keyholes in rock formations to break line of sight and make plays. Play smarted.