Pay to win features?

@kezmur a dit dans Pay to win features? :

This is not paying Rare, it's paying Sony/Microsoft. It's been a console problem since the Xbox 360, consumers paid for it anyways instead of making a fuss, telling all the big companies "you can charge for this." You have to pay to play anything online on consoles. On Xbox, you have to pay for Xbox Live to play Final Fantasy XIV, a game that already has it's own subscription too. Complaining to a third party is not going to make Sony lift their PSN requirements, this is a console manufacturer thing, not a Rare thing. It's been the problem for over a decade, it's not going away now. The literal only solution is to stop buying into the grift that is consoles.

Yes, these players pay for the Xbox service or the Sony service for access to multiplayer. But that's not actually the problem. The “pay to win” access to many in-game features, however, comes from Rare.
Given that these features such as captaincy, guilds, legend etc... are not available in Safers Seas but only in the multiplayer mode (High Seas) then from there they become additional paid features EXCEPT it is not was never sold as such. Do you understand the problem?

@kezmur a dit dans Pay to win features? :

How is it pay to win? There's no one to even "win" against in Safer Seas. I'm more surprised to can even play Safer Seas without a console subscription. You're complaining to the wrong company.

Here it is about paying to gain access to additional features which are normally basic in the game (on the high seas).
As I said, before the question simply arose, because the subscription was compulsory, but by becoming optional then it becomes pay to win to use in addition to purchasing the game.

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

As I have already said, this subject concerns above all console players who represent more than 60% of players (figures given by Rare in a tweet a few years ago, figure undoubtedly to be updated since the release on Ps5, not PC players.

It doesn't concern the approx. 60 % though, only those people whose only game on their console which needs a subscription might be affected if they opt for only playing solo and buy the game instead of playing it via the game pass (or whatever other subscription they pay for on their console to play SoT and other games) . As I said before, for those people I consider it a service that they don't need to pay for a subscription anymore if their only online game is SoT.
It's not that people who only are interested to play Safer Seas Solo suddenly got less than before console subscription for Solo Safer Seas was no longer needed.

When people choose for never(*) playing on High Seas and without crewmates they already had lost some features (Captaincy, use of Sovereigns, features that are designed for multiple crews &c).

The need for subscription was there if you want to enjoy the complete game (and/or other games) with other people and guess will stay there until MS and/or Sony change their policies.

(*) or at least until they want to play with other people either on their crew or on other crews.

@kezmur a dit dans Pay to win features? :

Sounds like its still compulsory to me like it always has been on console. High Seas is the game. Safer Seas is not a PvE server and is not meant to be a replacement for High Seas for babies scared of PvP. High Seas is the actual game, always has been, always will be. Safer Seas is a glorified tutorial mode

So I refer you to the update note of March 14, 2024.

And to say that Safers Seas is not the real game, so how do you explain the fact that when people buy Sea of Thieves on console, without a subscription, can play the game, in Safer Seas?
And to say that Safers Seas is not the real game, so how do you explain the fact that when people buy Sea of Thieves on console, without a subscription, can play the game, in Safer Seas?
And of course the Safers Seas are 100% PvE servers.
Besides, on console, if you don't have a subscription, then all of Sea of Thieves is a single-player PvE game;

@lem0n-curry a dit dans Pay to win features? :

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

As I have already said, this subject concerns above all console players who represent more than 60% of players (figures given by Rare in a tweet a few years ago, figure undoubtedly to be updated since the release on Ps5, not PC players.

It doesn't concern the approx. 60 % though, only those people whose only game on their console which needs a subscription might be affected if they opt for only playing solo and buy the game instead of playing it via the game pass (or whatever other subscription they pay for on their console to play SoT and other games) . As I said before, for those people I consider it a service that they don't need to pay for a subscription anymore if their only online game is SoT.
It's not that people who only are interested to play Safer Seas Solo suddenly got less than before console subscription for Solo Safer Seas was no longer needed.

When people choose for never(*) playing on High Seas and without crewmates they already had lost some features (Captaincy, use of Sovereigns, features that are designed for multiple crews &c).

The need for subscription was there if you want to enjoy the complete game (and/or other games) with other people and guess will stay there until MS and/or Sony change their policies.

(*) or at least until they want to play with other people either on their crew or on other crews.

I totally agree with you that this does not represent all players.
But understand that the very idea of locking these features through a purchase poses serious concerns.
Again, before that was the case but since it was mandatory at least we knew that if we wanted to play whether it was in High Seas or Safers Seas, then we could do it. There, the big part, the major part of the game is now blocked if you don't have the subscription THEN, and this is the most serious, that the game was paid for at full price.

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

@lem0n-curry a dit dans Pay to win features? :

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

As I have already said, this subject concerns above all console players who represent more than 60% of players (figures given by Rare in a tweet a few years ago, figure undoubtedly to be updated since the release on Ps5, not PC players.

It doesn't concern the approx. 60 % though, only those people whose only game on their console which needs a subscription might be affected if they opt for only playing solo and buy the game instead of playing it via the game pass (or whatever other subscription they pay for on their console to play SoT and other games) . As I said before, for those people I consider it a service that they don't need to pay for a subscription anymore if their only online game is SoT.
It's not that people who only are interested to play Safer Seas Solo suddenly got less than before console subscription for Solo Safer Seas was no longer needed.

When people choose for never(*) playing on High Seas and without crewmates they already had lost some features (Captaincy, use of Sovereigns, features that are designed for multiple crews &c).

The need for subscription was there if you want to enjoy the complete game (and/or other games) with other people and guess will stay there until MS and/or Sony change their policies.

(*) or at least until they want to play with other people either on their crew or on other crews.

I totally agree with you that this does not represent all players.
But understand that the very idea of locking these features through a purchase poses serious concerns.
Again, before that was the case but since it was mandatory at least we knew that if we wanted to play whether it was in High Seas or Safers Seas, then we could do it. There, the big part, the major part of the game is now blocked if you don't have the subscription THEN, and this is the most serious, that the game was paid for at full price.

As long as it is clear that for the full game, you need to either buy the game and have the online subscription or play it on game pass and have a subscription, I don't see an issue as their alternative is paying for a subscription when not playing with other players.

If people want to pay full price for something and only use part of it, it's their choice.

@lem0n-curry a dit dans Pay to win features? :

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

@lem0n-curry a dit dans Pay to win features? :

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

As I have already said, this subject concerns above all console players who represent more than 60% of players (figures given by Rare in a tweet a few years ago, figure undoubtedly to be updated since the release on Ps5, not PC players.

It doesn't concern the approx. 60 % though, only those people whose only game on their console which needs a subscription might be affected if they opt for only playing solo and buy the game instead of playing it via the game pass (or whatever other subscription they pay for on their console to play SoT and other games) . As I said before, for those people I consider it a service that they don't need to pay for a subscription anymore if their only online game is SoT.
It's not that people who only are interested to play Safer Seas Solo suddenly got less than before console subscription for Solo Safer Seas was no longer needed.

When people choose for never(*) playing on High Seas and without crewmates they already had lost some features (Captaincy, use of Sovereigns, features that are designed for multiple crews &c).

The need for subscription was there if you want to enjoy the complete game (and/or other games) with other people and guess will stay there until MS and/or Sony change their policies.

(*) or at least until they want to play with other people either on their crew or on other crews.

I totally agree with you that this does not represent all players.
But understand that the very idea of locking these features through a purchase poses serious concerns.
Again, before that was the case but since it was mandatory at least we knew that if we wanted to play whether it was in High Seas or Safers Seas, then we could do it. There, the big part, the major part of the game is now blocked if you don't have the subscription THEN, and this is the most serious, that the game was paid for at full price.

As long as it is clear that for the full game, you need to either buy the game and have the online subscription or play it on game pass and have a subscription, I don't see an issue as their alternative is paying for a subscription when not playing with other players.

If people want to pay full price for something and only use part of it, it's their choice.

However, the purchase of the game is complete....

@capt-kamoba a dit dans Pay to win features? :

This isn’t Rare “pay to win” feature for firstly Pay to win means paying money for an advantage to win against other players not for the ability to play against other players in an equal setting.

Secondly your issue stems from console subscription requirements which is out of Rared control.

Too many people complain about the subscription requirements but still do not boycott it when they should.

Once again, the advantage of this pay to win is to gain additional features, not to have an advantage over other players.

@zeyrniyx

First.
There are 3 ways to play.
Safer Seas - Solo
*Safer Seas - Crew
*Higher Seas

• needs to have game pass to play

Second.
On the app page for the game it says
"Online multi-player on console requires Xbox Game Pass Ultimate or Xbox Game Pass Core (memberships sold separately)"

No where does it actually advertise you can play without a connection.

Third.
This is how gaming is on consoles. Other games have content that is locked behind a Xbox live/psn. This is not new.

Fourth.
It's not just captaincy that is missing from safer seas. Captaincy, Athena, Reapers, Guilds, Gilded Quests, Ashen Tomes, limited time events, and more.

Lastly. This is why it's intended to be a safe place, a tutorial, a place for families. Removing the risk removes part of the game. I get it, your not happy that a subscription is required for higher seas. Oh well. It just seems like you are learning of these issues now when it's been an industry standard for 20 years.

If you consider actually having to BUY A GAME "pay to win" vs essentially playing it for free alveit on game pass.. well I dont know how to help you

Seeing them ask the mods not to lock this post, clearly means they know what they are typing.

Its Silly and just wanting to start an unnecessary argument with no real facts to back up.

@zeyrniyx additional features don't constitute pay to win tho? It's pay to play, but not pay to win. I understand your grievance, however, and it would be nice if microsoft dropped the need for a subscription to enable multiplayer. They unfortunately probably won't, as this garners then quite a lot of money.

@kezmur a dit dans Pay to win features? :

It's just a dumb, round about way to complain about Safer Seas limitations. They are intentionally misusing the term "pay to win" despite the meaning of that term, paying to WIN against someone else, being written in the term itself and refusing to back down when corrected. They are complaining about an issue at the hands of the console manufacturers (Sony and Mirosoft), not Rare, and has been an industry standard for over a decade. They don't care. This is just an roundabout way to complain about Safer Seas and asking for its features to be expanded, which they won't be. The thread will 100% get locked, I think the mod for this subforum as the day off or something, but it'll be locked.

First of all, I won't allow you to accuse me of being stupid or of misappropriating something because that is not the case.
And if you read correctly, I'm not, personally, concerned about this, seeing as I'm a long-time player who spends most of his time on the High Seas.
So thank you for not diverting what I say!
I know it's hard for some here to respect other people's opinions, but please make an effort.

And regarding my request for the moderators not to close the ticket in such an easy way, I know the forum very well and I know that posts related to Safers Seas are often closed with a pre-written message. Except this subject does not really concern safer seas.
A reasonable and thoughtful person would totally understand it ;)

@zeyrniyx said in Pay to win features?:

some players forgot the other part of their message: allowing families to enjoy the game without having to endure the toxicity of players

The devs never used the word toxicity in that video, because being able to attack anyone is not toxicity.

As for the rest of your claim, having free access to safer seas but not the rest of the game does not make the game pay to win by any definition. Safer seas is functionally a free trial in that regard and makes the rest of the game into the actual full experience you have to pay for.

Having to pay for the actual game to get the games content is not pay to win, its called buying/renting the game. If you want to play the game, you have to actually pay for a copy of it.

After seeing quite a few responses in this thread, i can say that the entire issue here is a core misunderstanding of what pay to win means on the ops end, and refusal to accept that the term means something other than buying the main content of a game.

@zeyrniyx Pay to win is regarding PVP when people that pay money have benefits over people that don't. You can get all the coin you want on the high seas and it's not going to make you better at sailing than the sailors on the safer seas. The barrel emote was the closest thing Rare had to pay to win and its since been fixed. The misleading title just attracts negative attention so Im not surprised it's getting locked tbh.