Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game

@sixssamurai said in Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game:

Hey

I've been playing this game a bit the last month, and I decided to finally try arena...

Which ended up being among the worst experiences I've ever had in gaming.

Not one or two times...but the same experience over and over again.

This appears to not only have been an after thought in your development, but a complete oversight in community management.

You have every type of unregulated open arena problems occurring.

Please highly consider implementing the following, if not already, or at the very least begin weeding out the bad apples from your community.

1. Player skill / rank matchmaking.
2. AFK auto kicks and punishment.
3. Point based system in arena that does not reward griefing based game play. (Cannon damage without sinking a ship providing CONSTANT bonus)
4. Spawn camp prevention.
5. Community policing of bad actors.

You have a beautiful game, as long as you don't ever want to play arena. I'd honestly disable arena, as if this was my first experience as a customer with it, I'd never return.

I'd rather go back to League of Legends PUG matches. It is less toxic then Sea of Thieves galleon arena.

1. All pirates are equal. Sorry arena is meant to be competitive. If are new you should sail in adventure.
2. I'm cool with shorter afk timers in arena.
3. Its competitive, scoring points is how you win. If a boat is being farmed they should scuttle.
4. Spawn camping is fine. if you cant get out, scuttle.
5. No. You dont get to decide how I play. I will spawn camp, I will try and farm your top deck with cannon shots for as long as possible, I will try and win.

If you are unhappy play adventure.

With a game that is free to play across an entire subscription based model for millions around the world, it creates a toxic environment that will, in the end, only harm the game, the development company, and the community overall.

You're responses only demonstrate your predatory aspect of game abuse to your advantage.

Multiple times I have had players on my team who don't know how to raise the anchor, fire a cannon, swim, let alone scuttle a ship.

Your mileage may vary... however, the way in which you responded to this is exactly the same problem repeated over and over in the arena.

You have no care for the fun of others, only for yourself. You rather exploit the problems, then fix them. You are part of the problem, and clearly do not wish to be part of the solution.

@sixssamurai said in Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game:

1. Player skill / rank matchmaking.

Well as no one has any advantages in gear, it is really up to practice, and more practice. And the arena is the perfect place for it. You get a new stocked ship almost every 20 minutes, with new opponents (you can vote for it). SO if one fight fails you can soon try again... until you get better.
EDIT: Try the sloop arena mode first, now there is just a 50% chance of getting a bad random partner. (If you have a friend to play with, you can easily rake up some good wins as you will have better co-ordination than a random crew with open mics.)

2. AFK auto kicks and punishment.

I believe there is an auto kick, but sadly is happens near the time the match is over. There is a punishment system in place for players who rage quit in the form of a cooldown (if im not mistaken.)

3. Point based system in arena that does not reward griefing based game play. (Cannon damage without sinking a ship providing CONSTANT bonus)

I dont really see the griefing point here. They get points for hitting your ship or doing damage. Cant really see the problem here. In the arena you get points for everything... so PvP in any form is kind of the point in this mode... and damaging ships and damaging others kind of the point. Cannon hit gives 40 points, sinking 1000 points (if the sunk crew looses 1000 points its like gaining 1000 points for the others)... seems about fair to me.

4. Spawn camp prevention.

Umm, what is the problem here. You have been boarded and you lost your ship, scuttle and move on. Its a perfectly valid tactic to eliminate a crew by forcing them to scuttle. They loose 1000 points (if they scuttle) which can be the key to your win if you have less points. Also its part of the PvP element, again part of the whole point of the arena.

5. Community policing of bad actors.

Not sure what you mean by that. But i guess you mean people swearing and calling you names... just record it if possible and report them. Report and forget! Also you are playing an online game and this will always be a problem... its just something that we have to live with... and its not only a problem in this game.

The concept of grouping people based on their skill level will prevent mismatches of this type from occurring in the random arena. Every other matchmaking system has that to stop massive levels of skill imbalance making players frustrated, which leads to them quitting aspects of the game, if not the entire game.

If the AFK/.autokick is ineffective in preventing arena teammates from being a anchor in the designed game play, then it needs to be updated and fixed. In arena, anyone afk for more then a minute needs to be given an AFK challenge, or removed.

The griefing aspect here is the points system in arena award you for locking down another crew and ship...not for sinking it and starting the process over. This creates a reward for making the game unfun for others, and encourages more skilled and coordinated crews to prey upon teams that are missing a person or have unskilled / new individuals on the enemy vessel. If point 1 is fixed, this will become less of an issue, however... it is still an aspect of arena combat that needs some reworking. The reward system does not lead towards the conceptual design of being a good pirate in arena.

You don't win for sinking and killing other ships or players... you win by making the enemy ship your floating cannon buoy.

As such, with a team of random folks, over more then a dozen attempts... I have not had one team with all four players engaging in the game... let alone counting those on the crew that just abandoned trying to play the game, and decided to give up on the "team" aspect of it, and just try going solo.

It's a problem. If you haven't experienced it, great. I have, I'm not alone, and its consistent. Enter a galleon arena solo and see what you get.

As for spawn camp prevention... there are small simple tweaks that can make this less of a problem. But it removes functionality of intended fun for a crew on the losing side of a battle. It is a "catch up" mechanic to counter spawn camping, a "win faster" tactic... however, since the reward is greater for capturing a ship then sinking it... it creates a bigger problem.

Community policing is devs and customer service folks getting in there and enforcing community guidelines. There is zero visible enforcement, and the reporting systems are frankly horrible to do in the middle of a match... I can't call up the previous enemies or allies to report them after the match.

@sixssamurai
There’s always the option of playing with a mic crew, or some buddies, then the afk shouldn’t matter and you can communicate enough not to get farmed and such

This is a great goal, however... enter the arena solo is the problem.

You have a participation gate of "must have friends to arena". If you don't have enough friends to arena, it is a demoralizing and toxic endeavor.

This is an unknown design to first time players, and could quickly turn a new customer out of the game.

@sixssamurai said in Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game:

With a game that is free to play across an entire subscription based model for millions around the world, it creates a toxic environment that will, in the end, only harm the game, the development company, and the community overall.

You're responses only demonstrate your predatory aspect of game abuse to your advantage.

Multiple times I have had players on my team who don't know how to raise the anchor, fire a cannon, swim, let alone scuttle a ship.

Your mileage may vary... however, the way in which you responded to this is exactly the same problem repeated over and over in the arena.

You have no care for the fun of others, only for yourself. You rather exploit the problems, then fix them. You are part of the problem, and clearly do not wish to be part of the solution.

Arena is a competitive mode. I am not exploiting anything, I am winning. People dont cry when they lose in other competitive modes. People who play arena with out a clue are easy to kill, why wouldnt I?

Also the problem isnt people like me, it's people who dont understand how a game mode is played, and want it changed due to a lack of understanding.

@captain-coel

Yea, you are guilty of only exploiting unintended consequences of not fully fleshed out design.

However... it is absolutely a negative experience for a portion of players. I don't know if it is a majority, a minority, but as a gamer of many eras of PvP and PvE style games...

This arena should either be shut down or fixed because of the damage it can do to first time players.

Create a lobby where you FIND a group instead of randomly dropping into one.

@sixssamurai why would I care if I beat someone in arena. It's a fast paced competitive game mode. Your complaint about it being unfair to new players would be like playing cod and getting owned. When it comes to arena, people play to win, this means that in a galley match you have up to 4 winners and up to 16 losers. Do you want me to feel bad for spawn camping people or pummeling their boat for 10k points? Because I wont.

This isnt toxic, this isnt griefing, this isn't exploitative.

Also, no one needs to use the Arena. If you do not like it, dont play it! The adventure mode is way more popular anyway... not that many play arena.

Basically Rare has given us two different sandboxes, with tools and toys to play with. We are all free to use both or one of the sandboxes. We can also play with they toys we like, and leave the toys we do not like for others to play with. That is how the whole game is designed to work. That is more or less what was shown and marketed in the game trailer videos.

We use the arena while we wait for others in our regular crew to get ready for the adventure mode. The arena is a fun way to spend some time 15-30 minutes waiting and warming up before the real game (adventure mode).

@sixssamurai said in Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game:

Multiple times I have had players on my team who don't know how to raise the anchor, fire a cannon, swim, let alone scuttle a ship.

Then stop playing a competitive mode with people who don't know how to play the game.... Imagine going into a COMPETITIVE pvp focused mode with players who don't know the basic mechanics of the game. Come on dude really?

@sixssamurai ... Maybe you're just bad at PvP.

@dominusocto7

If your assumption to the above issues are "I'm just bad", you have forgone the critical thinking requirements to be able to critique anything.

The system is un-fun for single individuals joining random 4 man ships.

It is so un-fun it brought me to make my first critique post to this forum.

If I suck or not has little to do with the bad meta mechanics around this arena design.

MANY options could be implemented at minimal effort to improve a cornerstone aspect of what gamers today want to engage in, PvP.

Saying "you suck" is contributing to this as much as a pet monkey helps you in this game.

Please go fling your poo at someone else.

@sixssamurai Don't join rando ships. Get some people and do some sloop arena. Or, one of your problems was about spawn camping. Git gud at pvp to take the campers out.

@sixssamurai Spawn camping is not bad mechanics as well. Neither is ranked matchmaking. Keeping a ship afloat to farm points off of it with cannons isn't bad either. I personally think it's a perfect way of doing things for pirates.

@sixssamurai said in Arena is Unplayable and a place of poison to your game:

@dominusocto7

If your assumption to the above issues are "I'm just bad", you have forgone the critical thinking requirements to be able to critique anything.

The system is un-fun for single individuals joining random 4 man ships.

It is so un-fun it brought me to make my first critique post to this forum.

If I suck or not has little to do with the bad meta mechanics around this arena design.

MANY options could be implemented at minimal effort to improve a cornerstone aspect of what gamers today want to engage in, PvP.

Saying "you suck" is contributing to this as much as a pet monkey helps you in this game.

Please go fling your poo at someone else.

This is so laughable. You do not have to join open crew, I have done it, my win/loss record in open crews is about 50%. Normally, I use one of the recommended ways to build a crew; here on the forum, official xbox lfg posts, or the official sea of thieves discord. When i have used matchmaking tools to find crews i find my win loss record to be 90%+. This is the same as when I play with members of my standard crew.

Your inability to use the tools at hand to find crews is not Rare's problem, it is your own. This game gives tools for communication and whether or not everyone uses them is up to the individual.

But like many competitive games out there, Pre-made squads are greater than random squads.

@captain-coel

If you think random arena vs. chosen team in the same arena is "competitive" your concept of "balance" has an inner ear problem there matey.

Saying you have a 90% win rate with a chosen team in the random arena... only proves my point further. Thanks.

@dominusocto7

Spawn camping isn't bad mechanics, unless its run like this... where the player spawning in has a disadvantage to even being able to move or react before they are damaged by at least 50% or more from a pistol or blunderbuss shot.

The spawn camping that makes this unfun is combined with the fact that your team cannot coordinate a respawn together.

Also... spawn camping protections allow for techincal issues to be worked out and evened for folks whose machines cannot load their game and render their control as fast as anothers.

There are many reason why we SOME FORM of spawn protection should be in place to favor those coming back in.

Again, its about a "win faster" mechanic (spawn camping) vs a catch up mechanic (spawn protection).

@callmebackdraft

I appreciate your candor.

However...

Using an "out of game" option to fix the issues which are tacitly being agreed upon... is not how to best introduce new customers to this game. Customers who find it through a free to play method like Xbox Live Subscription, will absolutely not have those options as easily available to them.

If your pre comped crew fights a random crew... there is no balance to that.

Griefers are rampant in the arena, and on top of that if you do not have at least two others working together, your galleon is at a massive disadvantage.

The official SoT Discord isn't linked in game, or hinted at in the load screen clues and hints.

I am acquainted with the game... that isn't the point, nor is it the problem.

The level of grief, combined with the need for teamwork, and the absolute lack of accountability, makes the arena a giant griefing ground that has no merit except to let the strong prey upon the weak, laugh it up as they sail on by, and force folks to either "get gud scrub" or not play.

If a game system accepts that level of griefing, where it is easily accessible to new players, it risks customer loss instantly.

@callmebackdraft

also, a scuttle requires a majority vote... that is hardly possible.

Please...if anyone doubts ANY of this feedback. Go play 10 games of solo que galleon arena.

@sixssamurai

I really don't see the issue here. Don't like Arena, don't play it. I don't like it so I don't play it. Lots of others do.

How on earth can somebody get 'damaged' playing a video game and being beaten? Get some perspective buddy.

The only thing wrong with arena is the waiting time to get in.

Everything else is down to bad crew.
But thats what you get when you play with randoms.

@wagstr

Oh goodness...

I'm going to stop here.

Clearly, this game has attracted a level of player that is okay destroying their community from within slowly.

Like the HUNDREDS of other various arena games that are out there... there are certain measures in place, with a good and valid reason, as to why there are limiters to griefing.

Clearly, this argument is aimed at the developers at this point, as it appears most of the people speaking in opposition with this are in favor of "noob stomping", because they are the ones winning.

As long as you are winning...its okay...right? That is some short sighted reasoning.

If you don't want new players to enjoy this game that you enjoy, it will only be a matter of time till the new players stop trickling in, and the numbers begin to dwindle.

If you cannot see this simple strain of logic... please do not ever be in a position of authority over anyone... you clearly lack the empathy to see beyond your own desires.

@sixssamurai

Err. What part of I do not like Arena mode so don't play it myself do you not understand. I'm not here to force my minority views on the majority.

My son loves Arena but he loves fortnight so he would do wouldn't he? I am a very empathetic boss at work as well!

If you can't understand that a noob isn't going to perform as well as seasoned players in a competitive DM game you can't have been gaming for long..

@sixssamurai wait, do you even know what a griefer is for Sea of Thieves?

The players make the meta, not the dev's. It's all there for people to actually have fun battle, but most of the players are just grinding for rep and achievements. Which is ok, just becomes a problem when most of the players in the match arent there to actually battle.

@sixssamurai
I agree with you here on a couple of points, I read all of the posts on this thread and a lot of people's counter arguments boil down to:

This is how the game has been forever.

If you don't like it, leave.

Everything is perfect, don't change it.

1. Player skill / rank matchmaking.

This would be a good addition to the game, the problem is arena is simply not popular enough to add this. If they added skill based matchmaking, the queue times would be absolutely terrible, and would take upwards of 20+ minutes to start a game.
If arena was more popular it would be a wonderful addition, but until it is, it's not good.

2. AFK auto kicks and punishment.

I wouldn't mind if they changed the AFK timer in arena from 10 minutes down to 1 minute. In arena it actually matters if your teammate is there or not, unlike adventure where you can 3 man a galleon, sometime in arena the difference between winning and losing is that 3rd cannoneer.

3. Point based system in arena that does not reward griefing based game play. (Cannon damage without sinking a ship providing CONSTANT bonus)

I agree, you should get more points for getting kills and sinking ships, rather than just farming a boat with 1 person on it for the entire game.

As long as it's in the game, it will be used, it only make sense. If you want to win you should use the best strategy, and right now the best strategy is to farm an AFK ship and win. I do think it should be changed, but as long as it's in the game you should use it.

4. Spawn camp prevention.

I would like to have a spawn camp prevention system. I've had situations where I've immediately spawned in, and I move ASAP and still get sniped before I can jump in the water. Here's how I would do the spawn camp prevention system:

(1) You get a 3 second invincibility timer.
(long enough so you can move, but not long enough that you can wait for your teammates to respawn)

(2) If you pull out a weapon (not shoot) but when you pull out your weapon, the timer goes away and it's fair game.
(this would keep it safe from people pulling out their blunder or sword, then walking up to somebody and killing them without fear of being shot)

(3) If you pull out a blunderbomb/firebomb it will take away your invincibility.

I think this would make it fair so you can still fight back without immediately getting sniped twice by somebody before you can do anything.

5. Community policing of bad actors.

Like I said in #3, as long as this is in the game, people will use it. Anybody who wants an easy win will use it (myself included) it does suck for new players who wanted to try out the PVP system in arena, but instead of punishing people for playing the game the best way, we should change the game to prevent them from doing that.

I agree with most of your points, and don't agree with others. Hopefully this post can give you a little more insight as to why this is the way things are. A lot of people on this platform are very quick to just say, "git gud," or ridicule you for your opinion, rather than actually explain and help you.

If you want someone on your side, insulting them is not the way to go about it, all you do by being rude to someone is you make them grow more hatred towards you, which just makes them stand stronger by their beliefs.