Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception

@cotu42 I use all the tools even the lazy key marked tool since some players aren't good enough to succeed in their endeavors to hold a fort. The key didn't start being marked and now that it is it took a style and challenge from the gameplay.

@nabberwar a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

You waste everyone's time hiding the key. Requiring people to figuratively camp the vault is the most dull and un-enthralling type of game-play out there. That is the stupidest idea for counter play ever. Just wait it out? How un-imaginative. Stash the key and just wait is counter productive to PvP, because it stops the action. Having it revealed always enforces the PvP nature of it, because people can't just wait it out now.

Yes, and as i said, Time is a resource too, so, they can leach you supplies, you can leach theirs.

I disagree, its rather fun, if I can sink them 10 times, they are horrible to begin with. You see a challenger, I see a ship bringing me more supplies.

Well, when there is 6 boat doing it on map, sink 60 boats is pretty much impossible, no matter how much time you spend of doing supplies before coming to event.

If you are the one activating it, you have all the power in the world to prepare for the battle to come. No one forces you to activate it with low supplies. Nothing requires you to stay for the entire taking of the fort. You could always just sail to an island and get more supplies. You are the only one who forces themselves to stay and finish it in one go.

It's actually a 1v1 argument, which is not the case here, where it's free for all. You leave the island for a boat ? then another come to do the event when you fight :/ sigh.

Its not a cheat if its designed in the game, Widowmakers ultimate in Overwatch isn't a cheat now is it? The key acts no different than the Reapers chests, its designed to be contested from start (pick-up) to finish (Cashing at outpost).

Overwatch is designed to actually encourage people to play vanilla, every FPS got hackers, but there is no point to hack when you can have an aimbot when switching on Soldier or Wallhack with Widow. And you still need skill to activate it as often as possible. So, i can only disagree here, because you don't need any skill to look at your map and come again.

It doesn't lack battle, it just changes when it occurs. Rather than during it happens at the pinnacle stage. If it bugs you that people wait outside the fog, then just go out and sink them. No one but you stops you from leaving the island.

Again it's a 1v1 case, but still, as i said before, you already got disadvantaged by doing the event, changing the time when the battle occur is completely pointless here.

Balancing is irrelevant, the fort is the highest payout in the game. The risk must match the rewards. If you want the loot, you have to go through the gauntlet or be smart when you attack. It's just that simple.

the "git gud" argument, finally. I can see what you see as flaws in others, even if i disagree with, but on this one you clearly just failed, sorry :/

Just no, because when people stash the key, they remove most, if not all risk of losing the fort. Now they become the very thing you despise, they can just send ship after ship to clear people camping off the fort. Or even worse, they could just wait for hours til people get bored which is the opposite of PvP.

You just have to attack when they do the event then, what's the problem here ? You managed to win fight while still doing event, you already won, didn't you ?

Your timer idea is stupid, we already have the solution with the tracker. All the timer does is waste everyone's time. You either fight for it or fail. Its simplicity works well.

Maybe it's not the best idea, but the tracker idea is even worse, because players that actually can't chase a boat correctly will still manage to go on you. They lack of skill, but they can do whatever they want and still be just behind you.
The timer force the player to manage the chase in a certain amount of time, if they run out of time, they got no loot, everyone looses, it's a draw. You clearly managed your chase better, so it's fair: Sailing management is an actual PvP mechanic.

@nabberwar Doing the FOTD is dull as hell but it's something to do. Again hiding strategy that may bore you and I and it is unimaginative but it's a strategy and not everyone plays aggressive or on equal terms as us PvPer's but should still have an opportunity to outplay and outsmart still if possible. Even if it is outlasting the chasers. I didn't have a problem with it on the old forts nor the FOTD when it came out and I bet you didn't either because we didn't care, we were there for the fight. My counter play is that what we always do everytime we start a session is to gather the lights as we play with the intention to do a fort whether we do one or not, which can take 15 minutes depending on where you start except for the Pink and White flame. If a fort starts before we have all the lights we go steal the remaining lights and put out thiers on the boat so if they do run with the key and we can't catch them we just start the fort back up again.

@capt-pilotes a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

Don't blame others about your failures.
This fort is about being tricky and keeping in mind that everytime someone can appear and grab your loot.
Next time you want to do it keep an eye on the horizon, watch out for rowboats and if you are certain somebody with a keg might blow your ship, delete all the kegs from the fort to be more safe.
This fort has been here for many months now and many people has developed tricks to do it / stole it.

Read and then come back, thx

@inboundbomb
I was Fort Hopping during its peak, I hated the strategy back then. I even did it myself on occasion, it just puts a stop to everything, which feels like it goes against the spirit of PvP.

My problem with hiding the key is that there is very little that can be done once its hidden. The very few things consist of dull work like camping the vault or trying to retrace the hiders steps. We got lucky on occasion in finding it, but its inconsistant and relies solely on how incompetent of a hider some people can be.

Your counter strategy has a flaw though, now they just need to sink you the one time and open it while its active. Meanwhile since they stashed it, they risk only their ship in the confrontation. Or they just do what you do and wait to activate it while your gone then use their key. The end result is the same, a lack of fighting in a PvP event.

I'm happy with its current state, preventing people from hiding it was a good thing. I'd be game if they attached it the other keys as well.

Recollecting the lights is trivial, side note, I would love a way to use islands as a way to stash lights. Just to add a level of strategy to the FOTD.

@nabberwar a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

The issue isn't that its viable or not, its just un-engaging and dull. What counter play exists for hiding a key besides looking for hours or chasing for days? That sounds like the opposite of fun. Hell, even resorting to camping the vault in of itself is dull. One could lay an ambush at an outpost, but no seasoned crew cashes out at the nearest outpost, while its stupidly easy to spot that as well with mermaids.

The act of stashing the key is as about as lazy and dull as it gets when it comes to strategy. How un-inspiring, hide it til people get bored. Thinking outside the box? Hiding it is as un-creative as it gets.

I will tell you a story then.
We did a Fort long time before with pickups on a Sea of Thieves Vocal with my long time mate. We do the event, then a boat is coming, and stole the key without being able to sink us. So, they go with key and we start chasing them.
After 1 hour of chase, we decide to go back on the fort and wait here. We come first and start waiting. When an idea come to us: trap the island.
We move every barrel to do a long reaction of explosion who will kill every person who is trying to open the door, then we hide 2 people with snipers on the island and go hide the boat behind the nearest rock. We calculate which angle we have to use to actually make the boat completely hidden from where the ennemy boat is coming.

And then waiting start again. We've waited something between half an hour and an hour, and they show up !
Someone on water to actually see the boat, near the rock, someone on the boat, already prepared to move it when we call to.
And the 2 others hidden on fort, one who can see the fort entrance, one who can see the begin of our chain reaction.

They take the key while another crew member is taking one of the barrels. Shot fired, 2 dead, then our boat is coming while the 2 on the island are fighting on their boat, we manage to sink them, take the loot and go sell it.

This was clearly the most epic plan we ever made, with the barrel placement and timings. And guess what ? we didn't needed any mark on key.

Hiding is a true strategy, even if you don't like it.

@dedhal

Well, when there is 6 boat doing it on map, sink 60 boats is pretty much impossible, no matter how much time you spend of doing supplies before coming to event.

I've done the FOTD for 5 consecutive runs with no selling inbetween. You speak of impossible when people complete it with no issues. I welcome the 60 ships, I've faced the 60 ships. Taking out the trash isn't a hard chore to do. You don't like the constant fighting, that is quite clear, but I do. Regardless of winning or losing I still have fun.

I'm glad they made the change. Long gone are the days of people wasting time and hiding the keys. They made this change for that exact reason. Its a PvP event, you need to fight from start to finish, it is just that simple.

@nabberwar a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal

Well, when there is 6 boat doing it on map, sink 60 boats is pretty much impossible, no matter how much time you spend of doing supplies before coming to event.

I've done the FOTD for 5 consecutive runs with no selling inbetween. You speak of impossible when people complete it with no issues. I welcome the 60 ships, I've faced the 60 ships. Taking out the trash isn't a hard chore to do. You don't like the constant fighting, that is quite clear, but I do. Regardless of winning or losing I still have fun.

I'm glad they made the change. Long gone are the days of people wasting time and hiding the keys. They made this change for that exact reason. Its a PvP event, you need to fight from start to finish, it is just that simple.

It's finished when the boss is down, you already have plenty of time to sink them when the're actually busy on the event, if you have to come more than one time and
if you're not being able to take them down when they're busy, so you're actually doesn't deserve any loot at all.

@dedhal I know about dummy sails and the fasted ships and how to out run others. I am not stupid. Your post is asking the developers to discourgae PvP, that is a terrible idea since this is a PIRATE game.

@dedhal

We do the event, then a boat is coming, and stole the key without being able to sink us. So, they go with key and we start chasing them.

After 1 hour of chase, we decide to go back on the fort and wait

then waiting

We've waited something between half an hour and an hour

Sounds extremely dull. Weren't you the one saying this encourages PvP? Now back to the present. They have no choice but to fight because they are always tracked. The big downside to your ambush is how stupidly easy it is to spot. Only amateur will fall for something like that. If the mermaid didn't already give you away, the obvious breadcrumbs of explosive would have. This is why crews send scouts or escort fakes with their ship nowhere near shore.

It's finished when the boss is down

No, its finished when the loot is turned in. I think this is the big difference between you and I, I welcome the return visits and have zero issues with fighting them again. What we do in return is just develop strategy to overcome the fort quicker since our window is shorter. We now know how to kill Marrow quickly inbetween crew sinks. We've also developed a system to load off the fort in around 5 minutes. The trick with that is using harpooning on the side of the fort rather than walking it down. Worst case scenario, we dip with the valuable stuff like Athena, Reapers, gems, and Strongholds.

We've adapted to the change, its time you do to.

@nabberwar This is just a simple thing where it never bothered me as I saw it as a viable tactic for anyone to win if possible. No different than those who use the red sea to deny us of their loot. It just doesn't bother me really. Also we use the island torches to hold the lights to regather if we were sunk. Kracken falls and Crooks Hollow for the white flame because like you said the rest are trivial. As for my counter strategy as goes if they ran then they weren't prepared to fight to begin with and won't be a threat if they return. I run with a combat galleon crew so we don't even put down a merchant voyage without 300 cannon balls and 200 planks to start. Always gathering and shooting out to islands for supplies and strip those that we get upon that our voyage takes us to. It's already too easy to start a fort now anyways since 85% of the time when we get on a server the flames are already lit at the fort.

@nabberwar a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal

Sounds extremely dull. Weren't you the one saying this encourages PvP? Now back to the present. They have no choice but to fight because they are always tracked. The big downside to your ambush is how stupidly easy it is to spot. Only amateur will fall for something like that. If the mermaid didn't already give you away, the obvious breadcrumbs of explosive would have. This is why crews send scouts or escort fakes with their ship nowhere near shore.

No, its finished when the loot is turned in. I think this is the big difference between you and I, I welcome the return visits and have zero issues with fighting them again. What we do in return is just develop strategy to overcome the fort quicker since our window is shorter. We now know how to kill Marrow quickly inbetween crew sinks. We've also developed a system to load off the fort in around 5 minutes. The trick with that is using harpooning on the side of the fort rather than walking it down. Worst case scenario, we dip with the valuable stuff like Athena, Reapers, gems, and Strongholds.

We've adapted to the change, its time you do to.

We just adapted to their strategy, didnt wanted to loose too much time on chase. Zerg tactic is clearly as dumb as waiting. If not even more. And you clearly miss a point here: we're a 3 people crew, not 4. If it's only for 4 ppl crew, that's not fair.

it seems you don't like to manage your boat, we do.

@jctc758 a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal I know about dummy sails and the fasted ships and how to out run others. I am not stupid. Your post is asking the developers to discourgae PvP, that is a terrible idea since this is a PIRATE game.

absolutely not, i encourage PvP until you proved you deserve the loot, not until everyone ragequit because it lacks of fun to go for the 10th ride.
If you actually see what @RevanJStone proposed, you can still encourage people for fighting without deactivating brain completely when it comes to chases.
And you can see i still want the fort to be marked until he's open, and i don't bother being attacked when i do the event.

And the Key mark range actually counter island hiding, IF you manage to constantly be in range, and if you don't, then they can hide it. It's just another PvP win condition, not discouraging PvP

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

The reason this key is marked on the map is because, unlike all of the other forts, this fort gets blocked until the key either despawns or is used. If neither of these things happen because the key is hidden in a bush on some random island, no one can do the FOTD at all for a couple of hours. The regular forts all use the same key so you can use it at any of those and if a fort key is not used a new fort will just spawn anyways but for this fort there is only ONE key and it must be used or despawn for the fort to reset.

The FOTD is unique in this way. It's a server event that has a single instance and the cloud and reaper chests make it abundantly clear to everyone on the server that it is active. If you don't like this, do the regular forts - they are not likely to be busy while the FOTD is active.

you know, for me doing a regular fort is actually loosing time, i don't need anything on forts anymore. I've already completed every challenges on them, got pretty much all boats skins i like and all, but, i'm still not lvl 10 athena after all this time because athena's farming is boring. I like the game as a Sandbox game, where we connect without knowing what we will do, and try fun things, like hiding on random people boat doing music for as long we can, trying to swim from island to island or even being a "ghost crew member", repairing another boat who is clearly not ours without anyone noticing. We still can have fun, but farming is over for us, since long time.

@dedhal Yeah, it was designed to bring players together. That was the whole point of making the fort. Just think like a pirate, check the horizons, save some kegs, your ship sinking is because you were too careless and let someone gain the upper hand.

@d3adst1ck said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

The reason this key is marked on the map is because, unlike all of the other forts, this fort gets blocked until the key either despawns or is used. If neither of these things happen because the key is hidden in a bush on some random island, no one can do the FOTD at all for a couple of hours. The regular forts all use the same key so you can use it at any of those and if a fort key is not used a new fort will just spawn anyways but for this fort there is only ONE key and it must be used or despawn for the fort to reset.

The FOTD is unique in this way. It's a server event that has a single instance and the cloud and reaper chests make it abundantly clear to everyone on the server that it is active. If you don't like this, do the regular forts - they are not likely to be busy while the FOTD is active.

I've done a FOTD when a person ran with the key with no problems last month. Chased them for 15 minutes and went back to the fort .We already had everything so we went up lit the torches and put a skull on and started it up. Maybe they were sunk or left the game but it worked for us and I never looked to see if the key was still on the map. I will test it again tonight if possible to complete the fort and restart it again without using the key.

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal You are complaining about an optional fort that you are opting to do. If you want to do that fort, you are going to have to fight for it. That's how it has been designed. It's not going to be changed.

Actually, you would never had Skeletons boats in the game if devs didn't heard the community. I just quote devs at release:
"We will never do such a thing since we consider the game as a PvP oriented game"
they did it after the overwhelming demand from the community.
If you're not able to understand or change your mind, i don't know why you post here.
Think, don't accept everything, discuss, that's the goal of the forum. If every "Founder" is here only to spam "Ok, but we will do nothing" that's useless, just give up on forum then.

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal You are complaining about an optional fort that you are opting to do. If you want to do that fort, you are going to have to fight for it. That's how it has been designed. It's not going to be changed.

Actually, you would never had Skeletons boats in the game if devs didn't heard the community. I just quote devs at release:
"We will never do such a thing since we consider the game as a PvP oriented game"
they did it after the overwhelming demand from the community.
If you're not able to understand or change your mind, i don't know why you post here.
Think, don't accept everything, discuss, that's the goal of the forum. If every "Founder" is here only to spam "Ok, but we will do nothing" that's useless, just give up on forum then.

I post here because you are trying to take something unique and turn it into every other fort. We already have several forts that have keys that are perfectly hidable and that don't invite as much PvP because the clouds go up in 30 minute cycles. We don't need more of the same.

If you don't want to do a fort that spits out a key that is visible on the map, you have plenty of options to do so.

And what do you think about the Mark Range ? Can you answer then ?

@dedhal

We just adapted to their strategy, didnt wanted to loose too much time on chase. Zerg tactic is clearly as dumb as waiting. If not even more. And you clearly miss a point here: we're a 3 people crew, not 4. If it's only for 4 ppl crew, that's not fair.

it seems you don't like to manage your boat, we do.

If you adapted back then you can adapt now. You say that I don't like to manage my ship, but this is completely wrong. As stated before, did it 5x in a row. That is a massive undertaking on supplies, yet we still succeeded. I know perfectly well how to manage my supplies, I have zero issues dealing with return boats because I am well stocked. We have done it as 4, 3 and a duo. You are only one who seems to be struggling, might take your own advice and properly manage your ship so you don't run out in fights.

We rarely fail taking the FOTD, regardless of return visits. That demonstrates we know how to manage our supplies and have adapted to the changes. You eventually fail, which demonstrates you haven't adapted nor manage your supplies well. Take your own advice. You talk about this being an impossible undertaking, meanwhile, plenty of us do the impossible on the regular.

absolutely not, i encourage PvP

You keep saying this, but it does the opposite. Hiding the key puts a stop to PvP for hours. Even reference your little story. You waited for hours til they returned, forcing people to wait puts a stop to PvP not encourage it.

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

And what do you think about the Mark Range ? Can you answer then ?

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

The actual proposition @RevanJStone did on last page. Having to actually see the boat to have the mark on map, on be in sight range atleast, If they try to hide it on island, you just have to pass near the island to know which and where.
But newcomers and ppl that are too bad to actually chase correctly wont be able to see you from the other side of the map.

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal Nothing with reaper properties works like that. It's unintuitive.

If you're chasing someone, you likely know they have something of value already - especially if they just left the FOTD - so it being on the map only within a specific range is kind of redundant and still makes it pretty easy to hide if you happen to get outside of the range long enough to give them the slip. If you don't know they have it and don't know the fort was up, you essentially have created a regular fort key.

I've already explained why they aren't going to change this key to work like that.

that's exactly what should happen if you managed to finish the event while being harrassed by all the server. And you clearly forget i still want the mark on fort without any range modification, this would be only for key and loots, like that you actually have to be on fight and know who did it to actually continue to fight, if you can't know anymore, that's over, this is the win.

I don't understand where is the fun in this event.

Think about a random dude who is doing his quests, and go on his quest island, and then, the mark appear when he approach, they tried to hide it ? too bad, a random got in range, and took it.

Here, you just have to react when you see the mark appear when a boat is in range. Where is the "it's an actual regular fort key" ? it's clearly still not. It just change the way you have to play if you want to steal it, trying to balance each camp, not only the stealer.

@d3adst1ck a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

I don't understand where is the fun in this event.

Maybe that's your problem? Other people find it fun the way it is - why should it be changed for you when other people enjoy it?

Do a poll ?

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/113348/poll-fort-of-the-damned-mark

@inboundbomb said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

@cotu42 I use all the tools even the lazy key marked tool since some players aren't good enough to succeed in their endeavors to hold a fort. The key didn't start being marked and now that it is it took a style and challenge from the gameplay.

And it added new styles and challenges... that is my point. If you want to hide keys than head to normal forts, not all content needs to be made out of the same tools and options.

The marked effect is an addition to the game and options not a restriction.

@dedhal have you tried being better than the people who come to take the fort from you? I’ve done the fort plenty and have lost the fort less times than I can count on one hand.

@cotu42 said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

@inboundbomb said in Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception:

@cotu42 I use all the tools even the lazy key marked tool since some players aren't good enough to succeed in their endeavors to hold a fort. The key didn't start being marked and now that it is it took a style and challenge from the gameplay.

And it added new styles and challenges... that is my point. If you want to hide keys than head to normal forts, not all content needs to be made out of the same tools and options.

The marked effect is an addition to the game and options not a restriction.

I never once said I wanted to hide keys so we can agree to disagree since you can't comprehend that. No new styles or challenges were added it still is just a fort like the rest with fog and glowing skeletons. PvP was mediocre at best, nothing to rave about. The key showing on the map an addition but not a good one. It was never needed in my opinion but we got it anyway.

@zezirconium a dit dans Fort of the damned, most epic fail of conception :

@dedhal have you tried being better than the people who come to take the fort from you? I’ve done the fort plenty and have lost the fort less times than I can count on one hand.

Another one, just learn to read and come back.