@hieroglyphe7 They aren't going to remove hourglass or move it to dedicated servers either. They have repeatedly stated that hourglass is designed from the ground up to take place in the adventure world. 3rd partying is encouraged. I don't really know what you think can be done to solve this, since hourglass can't be moved off normal adventure servers. Making dedicated servers is why arena died. Too costly to upkeep.
Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be
@potatosord a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
@hieroglyphe7 They aren't going to remove hourglass or move it to dedicated servers either. They have repeatedly stated that hourglass is designed from the ground up to take place in the adventure world. 3rd partying is encouraged. I don't really know what you think can be done to solve this, since hourglass can't be moved off normal adventure servers. Making dedicated servers is why arena died. Too costly to upkeep.
I mean, they said they were not gonna increase FOV ever and yet here we are.
Let's not forget the technical marvel Rare pulled off by implementing HG into adventure : that means they can apply rules on ships directly on top of the adventure world existing around them (they don't need separated servers with a different setting like selling point or waiting lobby like with arena), that alone make it way more easier for servers to be switched between HG servers and adventure servers, we aren't really talking about dedicated servers as people tend to think about, we are talking about servers that can have their purpose changed on the fly without needing extra ressources, it will adapt depending of the load generated by players, so it doesn't generate more cost at all outside of the work devs have to put to configure it, i'm myself doing that in my daily work.
@hieroglyphe7 The technical marvel? Hourglass is basically diving to a voyage. How is that a marvel? Wow, they can make 2 ships dive to the same place!
@potatosord a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
@hieroglyphe7 The technical marvel? Hourglass is basically diving to a voyage. How is that a marvel? Wow, they can make 2 ships dive to the same place!
Maybe you haven't read the rest of the comment ? They were able to provide a pvp mode without having to rely on dedicated servers that couldn't be swaped on Azure that easily, now they have the option to do that but they sadly won't.
There is a solution that can satisfy everyone (using existing technology):
- HG dives should happen on separate server and winning side would have to dive to another fight or get merged within minutes. It will free up the adventure spots and still maintain the bound between HG and adventure.
- New spawns should happen in an instanced Pirate Hideout or Guild Hideout, where you choose your ship and set sail through portal / waterfall / dive. You can also dive back to the hideout to switch the ship size. Afkers and HG resuppliers won't take the spot anymore, leaving only active participants on adventure servers.
@thegrimpreacher said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
I never once claimed it was zero amounts of time. I said there was no loss of activity on the adventure server. The time a hourglass ship spends on the server is INCONSEQUENTIAL to others on the server. You are being pedantic on an entirely different point than the one I'm making for literally no reason because it, in no way, supports your arguments. It doesn't matter if it's ten seconds or ten minutes before diving, it has NO EFFECT on the other players on the server before another non-HG player takes its place after diving.
I continue to state categorically that both the OP and you are wrong in the supposition that adventure servers are more empty because of HG.
...and this is all academic anyway since it's currently the way the devs want it to be and isn't going to change. They've already had PvP in a separate mode and it failed miserably. They're not gonna do it again.
Sorry for the late reply.
Why do you contradict yourself then ? If the time spent by HG ships isn't zero, then there is a loss of time compared to the maximum of time (time of ships playing adventure) an adventure server can have, it's basic maths as it has been already explained. You said HG doesn't take place on the server and its entierely false, there is only a 7th slot for HG on servers when a fight is happening, so we lose adventure ship time each time a ship prepare for HG or fight for HG.
Also you keep arguing that there is no way it's gonna change because devs says so, maybe you need to be reminded that what devs says isn't set in stone, otherwise you wouldn't see 110fov on helm soon, devs changed their mind due to feedback, you seems to forget that people have the right to have opinions in a section dedicated to that.
And we all know they can put HG in seperate servers without increasing costs or increasing the number of servers since HG doesn't work the same as arena.
@hegemon3 said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
There is a solution that can satisfy everyone (using existing technology):
- HG dives should happen on separate server and winning side would have to dive to another fight or get merged within minutes. It will free up the adventure spots and still maintain the bound between HG and adventure.
- New spawns should happen in an instanced Pirate Hideout or Guild Hideout, where you choose your ship and set sail through portal / waterfall / dive. You can also dive back to the hideout to switch the ship size. Afkers and HG resuppliers won't take the spot anymore, leaving only active participants on adventure servers.
Yup, HG ships can definitly be hosted on dedicated servers without using extra ressources.
I remember when people were talking about Pirate Hideout as spawn, it would be lovely if it worked that way, but there is a lot of work to be done for that, and using this as "lobby" before diving will most likely end up in extra servers that won't be used for adventure, and it will start costing more sadly. But i do love this idea.
@burnbacon said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
Yup, HG ships can definitly be hosted on dedicated servers without using extra ressources.
Explain. If they could why didn’t they?
I guess they didn't because they hoped the "defense" mode of hourglass would be used, but outside of that i don't see the reason, i'm not working at Rare.
Servers can be used for both type of use, as servers can load differents settings on the fly depending of the need requested by the players, there is no difference if 600 ships (both hg and adventure) are on 100 servers or if 300 HG ships are on 50 servers and the 300 Adventure ships are on 50 servers, in both cases we have 100 servers.
The only extra work to do is to configure the scheduler and the servers to load sessions with specific settings depending if the player click HG or adventure, along with the settings that would allow the scheduler to decide when and how to close a HG server once it runs out of players to fill it, and use this same server to be used as adventure instead, and vice versa. (they already use a behavior like that when they decide to merge you in another server when yours is empty, the exact same can be performed here).
Of course they also need to create the appropriate menu options, and some other rules to avoid any kind of exploits happening on those HG servers, the usual stuff.
Arena had the lobby problem which let players get stuck not playing at all if they dared to choose galleon ship type, which basically results in servers running while players were stuck in the lobby instead of actually playing, if this problem wasn't there, rare wouldn't really have cared, all connected players need servers.
Servers can be used for both type of use, as servers can load differents settings on the fly depending of the need requested by the players, there is no difference if 600 ships (both hg and adventure) are on 100 servers or if 300 HG ships are on 50 servers and the 300 Adventure ships are on 50 servers, in both cases we have 100 servers.
Again, How do you know? You said you dont work for Rare so how do you know the servers can do just these things? Have you spoken with someone from Rare that can clarify this? Confirm this?
Even so, Again, why didn't they do this if they "Can" do it.
You know a lot how the servers function but no real proof if the servers can do what you say, but you make it sound as they could if Rare would do it.Of course they also need to create the appropriate menu options, and some other rules to avoid any kind of exploits happening on those HG servers, the usual stuff.
Which they learned isn't great thing to do. Separate rules for servers, splitting man power over maintaining two server rules for sadly..a very small % of players who actually use HG.
@burnbacon a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
Servers can be used for both type of use, as servers can load differents settings on the fly depending of the need requested by the players, there is no difference if 600 ships (both hg and adventure) are on 100 servers or if 300 HG ships are on 50 servers and the 300 Adventure ships are on 50 servers, in both cases we have 100 servers.
Again, How do you know? You said you dont work for Rare so how do you know the servers can do just these things? Have you spoken with someone from Rare that can clarify this? Confirm this?
Even so, Again, why didn't they do this if they "Can" do it.
You know a lot how the servers function but no real proof if the servers can do what you say, but you make it sound as they could if Rare would do it.Of course they also need to create the appropriate menu options, and some other rules to avoid any kind of exploits happening on those HG servers, the usual stuff.
Which they learned isn't great thing to do. Separate rules for servers, splitting man power over maintaining two server rules for sadly..a very small % of players who actually use HG.
As mentionned before, i literally work in supercomputering using microsoft azure, scheduler software and everything that is implied, notably servers that run heavy graphicals programs, an empty server can be loaded with specific settings or even a different image depending of the requested thing to load.
You can find a documentation here (with more detailed documentation at the end of this file) : https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/0/4/2048B29B-BE99-4E87-848F-6784393BB717/Sea_Of_Thieves_built_with_Azure_PlayFab.pdf
If you don't trust the link try searching "Sea of thieves built with Azure PlayFab" on google until you reach a pdf.
If you want to check even more you can simply go there https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/?product=popular , or get certified here if you are interested : https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/training/azure/
I agree it will request people working on those rules and everything implied (more menus too), i was just arguing that it was not a problem of the number of servers needed.
Ok. So we established you don’t work for Rare or know how there own servers work. Great.
Maybe you can apply to work for them and help them out? They seem to be offering jobs and you make it sounds like it super easy.Sooo, give them a call and hope to see your easy solutions come into play by next year.
Or show off your work by YouTube videos and submit it.They be happy to know.
@burnbacon a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
Ok. So we established you don’t work for Rare or know how there own servers work. Great.
Maybe you can apply to work for them and help them out? They seem to be offering jobs and you make it sounds like it super easy.Sooo, give them a call and hope to see your easy solutions come into play by next year.
Or show off your work by YouTube videos and submit it.They be happy to know.
It's literally the field of work i already work in, it's maybe a niche but it still is a field of work, maybe i have to explain what a field of work is ? Of course i make it sounds easy so you can understand the basics, i won't literally make an essay on the scheduler software technology and microsoft azure in general for that when i literally gave you the documentation we work with, and posting videos of something you already have documentation everywhere online is useless.
If you react like that each time you encounter someone who knows something different than what you do you seriously need some help.
In fact you haven't even checked their jobs application before posting, there is nothing related to that, and even if there was, i already know my current job is better only due to location.
So just like the other toxic person in that thread, you are now blocked to avoid any other form of harassement from you.
Sorry for the late reply.
Please don't feel pressured to continue to reply; the arguments you're supplying are either categorically false or deliberately obtuse. Either way, this is the last time I'll be reading or replying anything in this thread as it's wandered far off the mark (and is entirely pointless, anyway).
Why do you contradict yourself then ? If the time spent by HG ships isn't zero, then there is a loss of time compared to the maximum of time (time of ships playing adventure) an adventure server can have, it's basic maths as it has been already explained.
I didn't contradict myself. At all. Once again, I will repeat myself slowly for the seats in the back (and try to follow me closely on this) I. NEVER. SAID. IT . WAS. ZERO. I said it was "INCONSEQUENTIAL" and has no effect on other players before the HG crew(s) dive or the match ends and the spot is taken up by someone else loading into the server. You keep trying to argue a point that I'm NOT making and it's getting tiresome.
I understand "basic maths" better than fine; your pedantic repetition of "Number A" minus a non-zero number equals less of "Number A" is playground logic . Maybe YOU need to try harder to understand BASIC GRAMMAR.
You said HG doesn't take place on the server and its entierely false, there is only a 7th slot for HG on servers when a fight is happening, so we lose adventure ship time each time a ship prepare for HG or fight for HG.
I never once said ANYWHERE that HG doesn't take place on the servers. I said it's not taking up a place on the servers. Because they're gone within a few minutes and someone else takes their place. It's an insanely simple concept but your lack of basic comprehension skills apparently keeps preventing you from understanding it. The ENTIRE point of this post was the idea from the fragile, block-happy OP who can't handle criticism that HG SHOULD NO LONGER take place on Adventure Servers and most of the responses on here INCLUDING MINE are why this idea is laughable. BECAUSE THEY DO.
OBVIOUSLY.
And, yet again, "we" don't lose anything from someone being on the server for an ephemeral amount of time before poofing off after a match or a re-supply before being replaced by another someone. The point you think you're trying to make is that somehow, if the ship that is resupplying at an outpost wasn't getting ready to dive, that they would instead be out on the seas interacting with other players for that period of time is foolish and short-sighted, since in all statistical likelihood, they too would be diving immediately after stocking up to a voyage instead of sailing across the map to one. I repeat YET AGAIN for the final time that the problem you and the snowflake OP actually have is with the diving mechanic itself, and not with HG.
Also you keep arguing that there is no way it's gonna change because devs says so, maybe you need to be reminded that what devs says isn't set in stone, otherwise you wouldn't see 110fov on helm soon, devs changed their mind due to feedback, you seems to forget that people have the right to have opinions in a section dedicated to that.
...and there's the inevitable strawman argument that every single person that can't handle the reality of this game clings to like driftwood after a flood:
"Rare changed their minds after saying 'no' on this one thing or compromised on that one thing, so now EVERYTHING they've ever said 'no' to is open to debate and persuasion if we just keep complaining loud enough for long enough!!!
I do not need to be reminded about anything. I'm quite well-informed. But apparently you need to be reminded that there's a difference between Rare saying 'no' to something that hasn't been tried before and discovering that there's a way to make it work upon experimenting with it like FOV and literally regressing to an earlier failed model of the game (PvP in a separate server, i.e. Arena Mode) that was proven to not work for overall health and longevity despite the continued vocal whinging of a niche set of players.
Finally, YOU seem to forget that these forums are NOT echo chambers where one can shoot some half-baked idea out their wordhole and somehow be immune to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You and OP have every right to state your opinions on these forums. I (and any other detractors) have that same exact right to tell you those opinions are poorly thought out, unsupported by logic or untenable.
And we all know they can put HG in seperate servers without increasing costs or increasing the number of servers since HG doesn't work the same as arena.
Oh we ALL know this...yes? It's a verifiable fact, stated somewhere that can be quoted and referenced by a duly informed representative of Rare themselves? Are YOU that Rare employee stating this as categorical truth based on a deep knowledge of the inner workings of Rare's servers?
Or is it maybe just a commonly held supposition we as a community have come to assume is true based on the little actual data we've collated that Rare has provided us over the years...?
Notwithstanding the OP's ridiculous and condescending statements of assumptions as literal fact based on his self-styled expert perspective since he "works in the field". 🤣
So happy sails, guy. I'm done repeating myself to you and this forum topic has long-since served its purpose: Uninformed doorknob wants something and suggests it in a post, that something goes against the game's core concept and design, everyone tells them so, they block everyone that argues against them and calls them "toxic" for not agreeing with their poorly thought-out idea. Repeat ad nauseum. End of topic. 🙄
@thegrimpreacher a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
I never once said ANYWHERE that HG doesn't take place on the servers. I said it's not taking up a place on the servers. Because they're gone within a few minutes and someone else takes their place. It's an insanely simple concept but your lack of basic comprehension skills apparently keeps preventing you from understanding it.
The whole point was the fact that as soon as a HG ship spend time on an adventure server, it's time not spend by an actual adventure ship, every minutes counts especially when you start additionning preparation, fight and probably sell, you have the right to say it looks insignificant to you, but that's actually a lot, so you have no valid argument against it, especially when HG players has no interest in being on an adventure server at all.
The grammar is not that important here as we all know we were talking about slots being taken by HG ships (as the other formulation meant nothing happened to the slot, something that basically never happen, and you are wrong no matter the case), and we all know HG ships takes slots just like every other ship (with the exception of the 7th slot dedicated for HG ships, but the existance of that slot being filled up mean that ship is fighting another ship, which takes a slot until defeated)
If you want to talk about grammar maybe try talking another language first, you can even come talk in my language if you want, you will learn a lot, especially for someone living where you live.
@hieroglyphe7 You're conflating what Azure servers can do with the ability that Rare has to take advantage of them, which comes down to technical skill, manpower availability, and priority of what they want to develop. Rare does not care or see it as a priority in any way, shape, or form, to remove or change how hourglass functions within the game world regardless of any advancements in server tech. This is a game that is running on a special one off version of UE4 made specifically for Rare, partly by Rare. People could argue that UE5 has feature benefits to make the game better but that is irrelevant to the ability Rare has to move what they already have established to the new engine. The reason why Minecraft Bedrock and Java edition are not the exact same game is because Mojang wanted to make Minecraft on C++ but had to fully remake it from the ground up. Even if they were feature clones of each other, things like performance, render distance, render order and many other graphical settings would be different per version just because of different engines. If they were to move SoT to UE5, it would either be a horrendous port from their special UE4 to UE5, or they would have to fully rebuild the game from the ground up to use UE5 effectively. That doesn't mean UE5 is bad, it just means that what they have now is too much to port effectively and also too much to rebuild from the ground up. The same can be said of their servers. Just because something better exists, does not mean they either want to or have the ability to take advantage of it. It might require too much rewriting of game code to make it worth their time and worth an imaginary benefit they don't really have a way to calculate.
@potatosord a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
@hieroglyphe7 You're conflating what Azure servers can do with the ability that Rare has to take advantage of them, which comes down to technical skill, manpower availability, and priority of what they want to develop. Rare does not care or see it as a priority in any way, shape, or form, to remove or change how hourglass functions within the game world regardless of any advancements in server tech.
Oh don't worry i know they have no real will to work on the least popular way to play, but again they had no will to work on others aspects at a certain time and now it's in the game, so who knows =D.
This is a game that is running on a special one off version of UE4 made specifically for Rare, partly by Rare. People could argue that UE5 has feature benefits to make the game better but that is irrelevant to the ability Rare has to move what they already have established to the new engine. The reason why Minecraft Bedrock and Java edition are not the exact same game is because Mojang wanted to make Minecraft on C++ but had to fully remake it from the ground up. Even if they were feature clones of each other, things like performance, render distance, render order and many other graphical settings would be different per version just because of different engines. If they were to move SoT to UE5, it would either be a horrendous port from their special UE4 to UE5, or they would have to fully rebuild the game from the ground up to use UE5 effectively. That doesn't mean UE5 is bad, it just means that what they have now is too much to port effectively and also too much to rebuild from the ground up. The same can be said of their servers. Just because something better exists, does not mean they either want to or have the ability to take advantage of it. It might require too much rewriting of game code to make it worth their time and worth an imaginary benefit they don't really have a way to calculate.
Game engine has nothing to do with job schedulers don't worry, also job schedulers were able to do what i said more than 10 years ago, it's really just a lack of care from Rare like you said.
Anecdotally I’ve had some epic adventure mode sessions with multiple ships trying to slaughter one another with passion on NA West the last few days. We’re not experiencing this HG ruining servers phenomenon. In my experience both while diving for HG and simply cruising, if anything HG matches bring activity to a server.
@solobrig5954 said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
The whole point was the fact that as soon as a HG ship spend time on an adventure server, it's time not spend by an actual adventure ship, every minutes counts especially when you start additionning preparation, fight and probably sell, you have the right to say it looks insignificant to you, but that's actually a lot, so you have no valid argument against it, especially when HG players has no interest in being on an adventure server at all.
There is no difference between a ship intending to do HG and a ship intending to do Adventure in this case. Both have set up time, and both are "idle" in terms of server activity if they're parked at an outpost or an island, and both may dive away to a completely different server after setting sail. They are functionally the same.
@d3adst1ck a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
@solobrig5954 said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
The whole point was the fact that as soon as a HG ship spend time on an adventure server, it's time not spend by an actual adventure ship, every minutes counts especially when you start additionning preparation, fight and probably sell, you have the right to say it looks insignificant to you, but that's actually a lot, so you have no valid argument against it, especially when HG players has no interest in being on an adventure server at all.
There is no difference between a ship intending to do HG and a ship intending to do Adventure in this case. Both have set up time, and both are "idle" in terms of server activity if they're parked at an outpost or an island, and both may dive away to a completely different server after setting sail. They are functionally the same.
If an adventure ship dive, it mean it will emerge and do adventure on the server it emerge on, meanwhile a hg ship will fight somewhere in the map with another ship, probably sell or just dive again, the duration of the match being time not used to adventure.
If a HG prepare, it's time not spent for an adventure ship to prepare for an adventure, the only case where there is indeed no time loss is the situation where an adventure ship preparing decide to dive too, but nobody knows what a ship is doing before it joins a server, meaning there is potential loss unless we have dedicated servers for people before they vote for something, but having such dedicated servers is harmful/useless since people can just decide to not dive.
@hieroglyphe7 said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
If an adventure ship dive, it mean it will emerge and do adventure on the server it emerge on, meanwhile a hg ship will fight somewhere in the map with another ship, probably sell or just dive again, the duration of the match being time not used to adventure.
A ship diving to adventure is not immediately interacting with any other ships when it emerges, so it is functionally no different that someone sitting at a dock or stocking supplies or shopping in an outpost shop.
The only case where a ship on the server matters to other ships is when they are interacting or within visual range, and both hourglass and adventure ships will be the same. You either choose to interact with them or choose to avoid them.
If a HG prepare, it's time not spent for an adventure ship to prepare for an adventure, the only case where there is indeed no time loss is the situation where an adventure ship preparing decide to dive too, but nobody knows what a ship is doing before it joins a server, meaning there is potential loss unless we have dedicated servers for people before they vote for something, but having such dedicated servers is harmful/useless since people can just decide to not dive.
This is inconsequential. A preparing ship, whether for hourglass or adventure, is essentially the same thing. They are 'idle' collecting supplies and have no impact on the rest of the server. They could dive away or they could not, it makes no difference.
I think your argument is misguided. It has nothing to do with Hourglass and more to do with diving in general, and you might have an argument there. The ability to swap servers quickly leads to less organic servers, ships appearing and disappearing quickly. There is no longer established areas that ships inhabit and can be tracked like there used to be. Ships can disappear on you by diving away. They can appear out of nowhere, reducing the effectiveness of a player's situational awareness, because they dive in at the edge of your vision (or on top of you if it gets bugged). This is not a problem tied directly to Hourglass, but diving in general.
@d3adst1ck a dit dans Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be :
@hieroglyphe7 said in Remove the fact that hourglass make adventure server more empty than they should be:
I think your argument is misguided. It has nothing to do with Hourglass and more to do with diving in general, and you might have an argument there. The ability to swap servers quickly leads to less organic servers, ships appearing and disappearing quickly. There is no longer established areas that ships inhabit and can be tracked like there used to be. Ships can disappear on you by diving away. They can appear out of nowhere, reducing the effectiveness of a player's situational awareness, because they dive in at the edge of your vision (or on top of you if it gets bugged). This is not a problem tied directly to Hourglass, but diving in general.That is correct, people here tend to not agree with me only because i'm mentionning hourglass, we talked about diving a few answers before this one and my vision of it is that there is far more chances Rare could change how HG function than changing diving in general, that's why the post is about HG and not about diving in general.
Of course if Rare start talking about changing the whole diving mechanic i would be very interested, but chances are very low i'm guessing.
@hieroglyphe7 I don't think they are going to change hourglass either, and it's unlikely that if they did much would change in Adventure because the main issue is diving which would still exist.
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