Great game but, seriously? Is... This it?

  • EndoSku11
    Founder

    I've enjoyed my time with the beta - and I look at it as I did with Battlefield 1942.

    You have x amount of weapons - you have x amount of vehicles.

    You play the game - you battle. Later an expansion pack comes out you might get a new weapon or a new vehicle.

    Battlefield 1942 was a great game without a bunch of unlocks or perks (aka in legal cheats in modern games)

    Sea Of Thieves has a set of weapons and a set of vehicles and it plays well. Upcoming content releases sound like they will keep the game fresh.

    Really I know a lot of you are junkies for unlocks - but sometimes a base set of weapons and fun gameplay are enough to spend time with friends adventuring around.

  • DragonNinja612
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @nightmare247365 well said friend. The idea of showing off with a bit of stronger gear is nice, but flaunting your skill at the game is much better. If you’re bad at the game, then you’ll want better gear to make up for your bad gameplay, but that’s just not fair, is it? I definitely want it to stay with just cosmetics. It keeps skill relevant.

  • DragonNinja612
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @lewanderous well said. People only want things to increase their stats because they can’t rely on their skills alone.

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @timidobserver

    Well, I think its just fresh take on things. It's nice to not feel obligated to play everyday to get the latest best gear. Just so you can stay in the game and match up with others. So for me personally, the golden shovel is okay for this reason. It's a game where you have fun with your friends and other people.

  • avecrux
    Captain
    Insider

    @xskrimps Typical topic "I get it, you don't want to scare people away from playing if guns and items weren't balanced. But"

    Insert everything

    "I get that game is 60$, but..."
    "I get that devs want to make pvp important aspect of the game, but..."

    Most people actually disagree with your statement.

  • KrayZmurloc

    I kind of chuckle at this kind of talk....

    I have not met a player that completely loves this game...in game, discord community you name it. I couldnt get enough of those play sessions and everyone i know/talk to about SoT couldnt either.

    Most of the forum posts about vertical progression, more guns, more ships more be like this other game i really like... have been from people that havent really researched the game or understood what the betas actually were.

    20% of the game was shown during the scale tests, maybe 25% in the final beta? The game is balanced and will have plenty to do on release. @ZafluKa so accurate so true.

    Game progression is that legendary pirate with a kraken skull for a figurehead and a big ol feather in his hat which is the equivalent of having that .02% drop rate legendary from any other game. SoT progression is the same as any other game it just doesnt have the flashy numbers or green-blue-purple-oj flavor which has become the norm for most gamers.

    @xSkrimps having funtional items like that leads to meta, meta becomes the norm which defeats the purpose of even having that to begin with because everyone is the same anyways.

    The game is fine how it is, its crew skill vs crew skill. Wait for release before discussing progression further its been beaten to death...

  • avecrux
    Captain
    Insider

    @uberkull the game needs progression because you said it? If some p**b who just bought the game is sinking your ship there is something wrong with you. This game is easy to play - hard to master.
    You just said similiar statement to this: someone who just bought cs:go will destroy cloud9 member because he have the same weapons.

  • UncleMetrik

    Do people not see their own real-life skill progression towards this game as PROGRESSION?

  • bitmapman
    Master
    Insider

    @xskrimps On the one hand, I understand your point.

    Sidegrade type weapons and equipment that allow you to kit out your ship and/or character for specific playstyles at the expense of significant downsides would be interesting, and would help to keep the gameplay fresh and exciting over time.

    On the other hand, stuff like that ALWAYS results in some degree of imbalance, and thus a pvp meta that you have to follow if you don't want to be left in the dust.

    It's a tough call to make, honestly. I see the upsides and downsides of both.

  • timmehsee
    Seafarer

    @drakebg757 how exactly is the PvP broken? everyone has exactly the same weapons! this is the epitome of a balanced and level playing field.

  • Joe Gallows
    Seafarer
    Insider

    I do not understand the skinner hamsterwheel mentality of some gamers.

    I play games to have fun. Because the gameplay is fun.

    Some players play games for the progression, no matter how pointless it is. They get a weapon with +10 damage, while monsters they meet get +10 life.

    Cosmetic progression is not pointless. It's just a fun addition. it does not change gameplay and it does not break gameplay.

    But gameplay. That's all that matters. Too many s****y games slap on some kind of progression system to suck players in. And many players fall for the simple hamsterwheel scam.

    Gameplay. This game has it.

    I do hope more content will be added and I am sure it will. But progression is fine, being purely cosmetic. In fact it's more than fine. It's the very foundation of great balanced gameplay.

  • Scholaf85
    Sailor

    @joe-gallows ha detto in Great game but, seriously? Is... This it?:

    I do not understand the skinner hamsterwheel mentality of some gamers.

    I play games to have fun. Because the gameplay is fun.

    Some players play games for the progression, no matter how pointless it is. They get a weapon with +10 damage, while monsters they meet get +10 life.

    Cosmetic progression is not pointless. It's just a fun addition. it does not change gameplay and it does not break gameplay.

    But gameplay. That's all that matters. Too many s****y games slap on some kind of progression system to suck players in. And many players fall for the simple hamsterwheel scam.

    Gameplay. This game has it.

    I do hope more content will be added and I am sure it will. But progression is fine, being purely cosmetic. In fact it's more than fine. It's the very foundation of great balanced gameplay.

    That's it great post

  • Astraldruid

    Being honest, i must admit, that although i love the idea of the game, I am not sure that there will be many still playing it, say by the summertime ?... Is there enough ?? is there really enough to keep us interested ?

  • Ersatz Nihilist
    Marauder
    Insider

    @astraldruid said in Great game but, seriously? Is... This it?:

    Being honest, i must admit, that although i love the idea of the game, I am not sure that there will be many still playing it, say by the summertime ?... Is there enough ?? is there really enough to keep us interested ?

    I feel that there are a couple of factors in play here when it comes to the content, and I'm definitely in the camp believing that the Final Beta was representative of what we're going to get on the 20th. But there a couple of scenarios: -

    1. This is all we get and Rare can't talk about what's next.
    2. There's a load more content and Rare can't talk about what's next
    3. This is all we get, but Rare have a timeline for when we can expect new stuff
    4. There's a load more content, and Rare detail more in the pipe.

    ... the first two are what are going to cause community problems in the short term and the longer term respectively. The latter two are far more hopeful and what's going to keep people coming back.

    It's not like an MMO where if I take a break for a quarter then I've fallen hopelessly behind and have to slog my way through catching up with everyone else - the defining factor here is going to be communication. Right now it looks as though there's not a whole lot to spend your gold on except for cosmetics, which some people will care about and some won't.

    If Rare come out and announce something like "by the end of the year we want instanced player islands building on the instanced secret hideout, and you'll be able to keep pigs and stuff", then that's absolutely something people will play for and build up resources to get together.

    How much they engage with the community will make of break the game, regardless of content - and you've got to remember they're apparently committing to this for years.

  • Astraldruid

    @ersatz-nihilist
    i hear ya..... but
    I am already a bit bored of the quests and when i sail with my buddy, we just sail around talking and just generally being lousy pirates. WHich is great from one standpoint, but it is not enough.
    THe in-game combat is sloppy, glitchy, whatever you want to call it. The rewards are basically pointless. At the first BETA i thought folks were being a bit harsh with their criticisms, but after many hours on the sea I my enthusiasm for launch is waning..

  • Ersatz Nihilist
    Marauder
    Insider

    Oh no, I totally hear what you're saying - I think that unless Rare can announce a massive load of new stuff (which I honestly don't believe is going to happen), then they're in a bit of a delicate position because they've built a game which thrives on it's community and if the community tanks, the game gets a lot less appealing.

    It's also important to remember that they're not the only game in town, every time there's a massive release there's going to be people leaving to go play that and the MS Gamepass is going to exacerbate that in some ways.

    I'm on the forums a lot at the moment, but that's because I've just transitioned into working part time and I'm riding the hype train - I suspect that this isn't a game I'm going to binge on, but I'm so in love with the concept and art, I'd really like it to do well.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    There is a difference between types of players.

    1. The player who play for fun, he want equal start prerequisites for everybody if it comes about competition and he plays the game because he likes the gamemechanics. Just simple as that.
      If one need more than just the gamemechanics, than it's the wrong game or he/she in the first line "plays" not for playing the game, but to achieve something.

    2. The workers and achievers. They like the gamemechanics to some degree, they dont care that much for cosmetics and immersion but for reward and achievement for the effort they put in.
      That's more meritocracy orientated than playing just for fun and because of just liking how the game works, how it feels...
      Those say effort=reward and the reward is beeing stronger than people who put less effort in.
      Insulting those as Walmart p***s and the lol's of those people if there is nothing to "earn" with their "effort" demask them to be not players in the first line, but people who compensate.
      Industry allways watch out for unhappy people who compensate by buying stuff or achieve something.
      This is why pay 2 win exists.
      This is why games with progression exists and even Shooters nowadays have progression Systems.
      There's no offline real life game about and build around progression.

    Progression Systems are timesink and only catering to addicted gamers, compensating something.

    Pure Fun Games dont need that.
    Real Gamers dont need that.

    Imagine games are there to have fun for 2-3 hours at some days a week and not to compensate your lacking life working for achievements and putting effort in to get rewarded.
    That's called work and not playing.

    If you want get rewarded for your effort and work play one of the thousand games with progression Systems.

    Rare has created a great game and not another compensating tool for people who dont want to play and have fun but to achieve higher, faster, further, own other people and tell us on the end of the day look what i have earned for all my effort and hard work.
    You sat tons of hours in front of your gaming rig Mr. Hardwork. Just to say.

  • Joe Gallows
    Seafarer
    Insider

    Yes, if the gameplay isn't reward enough for playing it, you know it's a c****y game. It's the current trend. Instead of making games new and fresh, progression systems are just slapped on to trick gamers into thinking they achieve something. That's not to say progression is inherently bad, because for games like RPGs it's a natural part of gameplay.

    Goldeneye - it's still one my all time favorite games. There is much more content in SoT, but still we played Goldeneye for years. I kept my N-64 for many years just to have nostalgic games when my friends came by. There is just something about SoT that clicks with me.

  • The Warcrombie
    Ship Mate
    Founder

    @stundorn how are you going to claim who a "real gamer" is XD get out of here

  • BoldcatB
    Founder

    I agree totally. Already pre-ordered because it seems like a good pirating game, and it has the rare component of crews, but from what I've heard it's seriously lacking progression wise.
    I understand that the devs don't want those 100+ hour pro's 1 shotting everyone they meet because they have the best of everything, but what they don't realize, is that pros will forever win, all this lack of upgrades is doing is stop the less skilled of ever having a chance of winning.
    Imagine for a second 2 people run toward each other on a beach, 1 skilled, 1 unskilled. If they both have the same weapon the skilled player will win nearly every time, HOWEVER, if there are upgrades, the unskilled player can use those to his/her advantage, and actually, have a chance of winning.
    Lack of progression might also mean the end of this game. For example, one of the games I play has roughly 500+ hours on it, even though I detest the thought of playing it, all because you can progress for years without hitting the end. If all you can do is decorate stuff, people will do that (I'm guessing all the decorations you want can probably be found within a month judging by the fact I was able to buy all the decorations during one of the betas in a week), so maybe people will play for a month or two, but then what? You've killed every boss, looted every treasure, gotten every ship, and all the clothes you could ever want, but there's nothing left, nothing new to find, kill, loot, or buy, and when people hit that end, they will get bored, and they will leave.
    I might be rambling a bit, but I really don't want this to become yet another 6-year-old role-playing game, when it has the potential to becomes one of the best games out there.
    Either way though, see you on the sea's, and may the wind be at your back!
    Cat

  • Captain Aircool

    Nyyyyyooooooooooooo.....

    I can remember, last year, when Guild Wars 2 released their Halloween Mount Skins. The package cost ~£15. Later that evening, a group of us just hung around Lion's Arch admiring how awesome we looked and chatting away about all sorts of things. We must have spent a good two-three hours chilling, changing costumes/colour schemes and talking to other players who came to hang for a while.

    So, if you don't understand the social value of a gold plated, ebony shafted spade, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you.

    However, there is just one caveat; there needs to be an awful lot of vanity items and combinations to keep it interesting. More emotes (perhaps attached to items) and animated effects/interactions will be needed.

  • SERGENT COOTER

    There’s tons of stuff to do

  • BoldcatB
    Founder

    @doctor-n****e I understand what you're saying, and I totally get it!
    All I'm saying is that fashion won't last. Even you said, "We must have spent a good two-three hours". Even if the game has 10 times more interesting clothing, that'll only bring you to maybe 30 hours of showing off clothes.
    Basically, all I'm trying to say is, fashion, while definitely a plus, only entertains for so long.

  • Ersatz Nihilist
    Marauder
    Insider

    @boldcatb said in Great game but, seriously? Is... This it?:

    Basically, all I'm trying to say is, fashion, while definitely a plus, only entertains for so long.

    This is where the ongoing development and events come in.

  • CoyoTe4711
    Captain
    Founder

    i love how ppl are criticising this game like it had to be the end-all be-all game.
    i dont mind ppl flaming this game, how disappointed they are, how things need to change to make a good game.

    i dont think this game needs to change, i love it already, and i gonna play the living daylights out of this. and when i sail the sea of thieves, just won a great battle, sunk the enemy ship, took all their spoils, satisfied gazing over the glistening sea, i might remember all those complaining about the game so hard before they even played it and i smile for a short second. and then i smile a little longer, but without thinking about all the ppl that dont want to play this beautiful game, cause i dont care what other ppl really think in this matter ;) but i might be looking forward to meet likeminded ppl out there on the seas,... just to blow em to pieces! Aaarrrrrr!

  • BoldcatB
    Founder

    @coyote4711 Yea, it doesn't have to be the best, but I also don't want it to be the worst either ;p
    I just wish there were actually upgrades so you could really become the pirate you want to be, whether that's a dual flintlock wielding maniac or someone who goes around spiking people with halberds, 'cause fighting endless identical weapons and ships will take a lot of fun out of it.
    And I only started complaining AFTER I started playing the betas and reading the discussions. I just don't want this to be another game that I finish in a week or a month, then only play when I see something new and interesting.
    Either way, this game does look stunning, and as far as I know, it's the only decent pirating game with crews, so while I might be complaining a lot, It's only because I like it soo much, and love what it could become.

  • Stundorn
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @BoldcatB
    You are right about the skilled pro gamer allways wies, because his spent time also gives him practice.
    All fine, this is playerskill.
    But the casualgamer has nothing what the pro not has already.
    So to compensate this through better gear what need to be found in the game and is maybe hard to get allwaysmakes the pro stronger, not the casual.
    Have you ever seen a casual withbetter gear set than the pro has?
    Ofc not, because this pro gear is only obtainable when grinding like a hardcore gamer.
    But here we have another factor without progress and better gear.
    Some casuals are skilled players and some pro's arent that good without benefits like gear from just playing more.
    Therefore the playing field is more even and balanced.

  • BoldcatB
    Founder

    @stundorn
    Sorry, I think I might've written it wrong. When I meant upgrades I didn't mean straight up upgrades, aka double damage. What I meant was maybe for melee different types of weapons, including knives, cutlasses, sabers, battleaxes, halberds, shields, spears, maybe even maces, BUT the important thing is that every weapon should have an advantage and a disadvantage. For example, maybe a skilled player uses a knife because it has high damage, but a casual use a halberd because of the insane range. In that instance maybe the casual might win because he had the better weapon in that engagement, but then maybe he fights someone with a sword and shield, who easily defeats them.
    All I want is the choice to use upgrades, even if those upgrades might actually be worse then what you had before because with them you can become the pirate you want to be.
    And from the betas, it looked like all the weapons were pretty evenly priced, so while a pro might have some rare glowing battleax, a casual might stand a chance using a cheap knife :P

  • WLBCrash
    Marauder

    @boldcatb you're not gonna get some whacky weapons like halberds on a ship... everything is going to be within a similar range that way there's no standing back and cheesing from a distance with a spear or whatever, that's what your pistol is for and why it's limited in shots.

    Some diversity, yes, but an advantage system with weapons? No. Because all that's gonna mean is that the skilled players are going to pick the easiest weapon to cheese and win and we're going to be right back into this boat.

    The best way to deal with a more skilled player? Get more skilled yourself. Or outsmart them. That's why I'm loving this game so much. There's no advantage besides the one you create for yourself.

  • LiberateThem

    I love the game as it sits but I never understood the mentality that if I have been playing 5 years, and you 5 days. Why should you be on equal footing with me in any sort of way?

  • tavishhill2003
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @xskrimps I think when you say 'customization isn't going to cut it' you may be presuming things that aren't true. We have not been able to customize ships yet, which is a huge part of where they are going with the cosmetic angle. If you spot a ship that has specific designs on it, that is a dead giveaway that they aren't new players. This entire dynamic they are going for with how customization is integrated into gameplay and decision making was not present in the pre-release builds at all.

    You are seemingly presuming it will work similar to other games with cosmetics, which is to say 'it has no possible impact on gameplay', but in SoT it WILL significantly affect gameplay/decision making and the emergent stories stemming from the recognition the ship customization provides. Don't assume it won't work as intended until we have a chance to try it out.

    In other games cosmetics are essentially never related to gameplay so that devs can get away with selling them as microtransactions. In SoT they are earned, not sold, and they are woven into the core design principles.

  • WLBCrash
    Marauder

    @pushrodlsx because that's been the norm for so long you just get used to it. Sure, you've been given time and have dedicated a good chunk of it to something. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're better. If someone 5 days old can best you on equal terms you're not very good at the game...

    In games like this if there's no balance then it really limits the playerbase and before long it'll dwindle to nothing ala rust, h1z1, ARK servers.

  • ponaire
    Marauder

    @xskrimps said in Great game but, seriously? Is... This it?:

    @daveyjay1984 Cool. More Voyages that give me more gold or items that eventually do... nothing.

    Yes, cosmetics ultimately do nothing, but it’s the grinding and experience that matters. You have a goal to look the best out of your crew, having fun and grinding. Don’t look at the reward, look at the competition and experience.

  • WLBCrash
    Marauder

    @beanmariocow almost as if this game is meant to embody the concept of "its not the destination but the journey."

    I feel that many games can forget that sometimes. I love playing breath of the wild, skyrim, fallout, ARK, etc. Just to play them and enjoy the world. A game that allows me to do this with friends that has just enough random occurrences to keep things interesting is good enough for me. I relish that journey.

  • Sucker MC
    Founder

    Pretty sure I acquired a faster digging spade in beta.

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