@the-song42 The difference is, people asking for PvE servers are asking for protection.

TDMers will happily camp people who interfere. I know I will.

This thread isn't asking for a TDM mode. It isn't complaining about interference or asking for protection. It is only pointing out that new players are getting camped for interfering, and there's no way for TDMers to explain to them how they can avoid it. It is just one of the problems created by this permanent, default muting.

You telling me that spawnamping is a "failure in game mechanics" or "griefing", or suggesting I'm an "unrespectable stain" isn't going to help those new players in that situation.

@john-arkham said:

It's hard to believe that only player density is responsible for such a disparity. Sure it could account for some...but all of it ? Most of it ?.. In all fairness we lack the... number of reports

Let's say you have just 3 hours of playtime after work during the week. How many interactions with other players might you have in adventure in one week? Were you able to speak to them in every interaction? Or were some of them just ships you battled or allied with in brief moments?

Now how many interactions would you have if you only played arena for that same week?

What I'm suggesting is that because of the greater number of interactions in a strictly PvP environment, you are automatically going to have higher instances of conflict.

I've reported my fair share of players for slurs. You can imagine the namecalling my gamertag gets. But some people are way more sensitive, and will be insulted by anything as simple as "rolls on deck laughing". I've also received messages from salty players saying that I was reported for toxicity, when I didn't even say a word in pirate chat. =/

With more instances of conflict, you are going to have more people complaining about toxicity.

Regarding Rare's move : is it lazy ? Well yes but since they don't want to put efforts in Arena anymore, it's pretty logical to take the easiest approach for them.

I agree it is the easiest approach and at least we both agree it's lazy. I definitely wouldn't call it logical. Definitely unsurprising.

@theblackbellamy i mean In galleon farming a ship isn't ok but also the other crew can easily stop that with a quick scuttle. Like once again its learning to be a better pirate. Why would I give another galleon more points if we lost the fight scuttle get right back out there. Also in galleon arena its all navel combat the chest isn't as relevant cause you can get way more point by just doing naval combat. But in sloop arena the chest ties hand in hand with collecting the chest. But for a group of people to try and ruin the experience with tdm and then combine they are being attacked is dumb. After talking to you on this I glad they took voice communication out so its harder for people to try and tdm. TDM ruines arena. If you want tdm ask rare to make a game mode and stop crying on forums about why you can't play the game tdm.

@jackal-cabooze

After talking to you on this I glad they took voice communication out so its harder for people to try and tdm... If you want tdm ask rare to make a game mode and stop crying on forums about why you can't play

Lol no one is crying about being unable to play TDMs.

People are still TDMing. It's not like we forgot each other's names or can't communicate in discords or party chats. What people aren't doing anymore is warning the lobby to stay away from the fort. This negatively affects the other ships, especially newer crews, more than it does TDMers.

The fact that you think players not attempting to win are somehow "ruining the experience", shows how pathetic you are. I'll happily continue to "ruin your experience" by minding my own business and camp you when you pull up for an easy win on my unmanned ship.

@theblackbellamy whelp there is no reasoning with people who don't want to play the game as intended. Its been made clear that you can't handle the seas like a real pirate.

@jackal-cabooze

Its been made clear that you can't handle the seas like a real pirate.

Oh, you're hilarious.

What's clear is that your issue isn't with players not playing as intended. Because you have no issue with people who neglect the chest to farm points or spawn camp. Your issue is with TDMers specifically.

Somehow, if folks keep to themselves at a fort and don't interfere with your win, they are still "ruining your experience". And you keep warping my concern, for new players not understanding the situation, into me not being able to handle their disruption. I've said multiple times that I don't mind camping crews that pull up.

You want to keep practicing how to scuttle? Come on over, "real pirate". I'll help you practice respawning too. :D

@theblackbellamy I have no issues with TDM I do it sometimes too but if everyone just wants to play normal I do that instead. Spawn camping is not a solution really it just irritates everyone so I don't do it unless they are the ones causing problems. I have read a lot of posts about how TDM players are the best of the best but from my experience they really aren't all that good. I attacked one because they were on an island with the chest and they couldn't even come close to beating my crew and it was 2 on 1. I'll read your response if you make one but I'm at work so it will be a bit. I do want to hear what you have to say not trying to be toxic here.

@bronzeinquiztor

This seems like another comment deviating from the thread's topic. But since you asked for my thoughts, I'll offer them.

I have no issues with TDM... but if everyone just wants to play normal I do that instead. Spawn camping is not a solution really it just irritates everyone so I don't do it unless they are the ones causing problems.

If there's no one to TDM with, I'm going to leave the lobby lol. Often times I try to solo queue at the same time as my friends, and ~7/10 times we'll find a lobby with at least 2 gallies within the first try. If I'm looking to TDM, I won't waste my time in a lobby without anyone to TDM with.

Once I do find a lobby with my friends or TDMers, I don't care how anyone else plays. If they're navaling, cool. If they're camping, cool. If they're standing at their food barrel and eating coconuts the whole 15 minutes, cool. I'm minding my own business at the fort, until some ship starts interrupting.

If I'm there to TDM, I'm not going to bother to camp another ship unless, like you suggested, they are the ones causing problems.

I have read a lot of posts about how TDM players are the best of the best but from my experience they really aren't all that good.... I do want to hear what you have to say not trying to be toxic here.

You don't have to be sweaty to TDM. There's no skill threshold that must be met before participating. Dude, I'm not even that good lol. I only do casual TDMs. I don't compete or anything.

Trying to tie this into the topic, about a month ago I had some new players interrupt a TDM. After we anchored and had control of their ship, we realized they were new (hot-mic'ers) and explained to them what was going on; gave them the usual "go dig the chest or fight other crews" spiel. They thought the TDM sounded fun and ended up joining us lol. Complete noobs; having a good time playing against arena vets.

That won't be happening again.

@theblackbellamy more on topic I agree that it was a poor decision to remove the chat but for different reasons. I think it takes away from the overall community in the arena. There are other interactions between people besides toxicity but not anymore. It should be added back. The majority of people seem to think so too.

@expsnailer said:

If someone dosn't want to TDM but your forcing them to comply or leave

If someone doesn't want to TDM, they don't have to TDM. They can dig the chest or fight other naval ships for a win. They can also ignore the TDMers requests entirely, and disrupt them on purpose. Some masochists apparently get a kick out of repeatedly interrupting and scuttling after being outplayed. Hey, all the power to them.

No one is forcing anyone to comply to anything. No one is forcing anyone to play a certain way.

If you want to load into an arena match to see how many splashtails you can catch, all the power to you. You're not playing to win, but I'm not petty enough to hope you get banned for goofing off.

I don't wish to dictate anyone else's playstyle. As long as you're not using hacks, cheating to win, or griefing your own crew, you do you. I wish this was a sentiment shared by others.

@swimplatypus7 said:

Bad news, you picked out the wrong game.

Oh well if you say so, then let's just stop altogether!

TDMing still happens whether or not you think it's the wrong game for it. Until Rare flat out says "no more TDMing", it's not going anywhere either. This is really only "bad news" for crews who interfere and don't know any better, and now can't be communicated to or reasoned with.

@theblackbellamy
"I don't wish to dictate anyone else's playstyle. As long as you're not using hacks, cheating to win, or griefing your own crew, you do you. I wish this was a sentiment shared by others."

But griefing everyone else is acceptable. What I don't get with all this is the notion that TDMers should be 'left alone' and if they're not, the only available action is to spawncamp the ship that so rudely interrupted you. I must have missed the part where it was decided upon high that this is the ONLY way of dealing with that situation. "It's not my fault I was toxic, they shot at my ship"

Here's another way of dealing with the same scenario.... accept that the whole lobby doesn't actually want to engage in TDM this time and play the game as intended. You already said that you'd leave a lobby if it looked like you weren't going to get a TDM one.

@stainiak said:

But griefing everyone else is acceptable.

If your view of griefing is broad enough to include spawncamping a ship after I am being shot at, then yes. I'm not sure what else you're including in there, so I can't really answer that. I was referring to griefing in this game as Rare sees it.

If I'm navaling and I decide to attack an opposing ship by spawncamping, am I still griefing?

What I don't get with all this is the notion that TDMers should be 'left alone' and if they're not, the only available action is to spawncamp the ship... I must have missed the part where it was decided upon high that this is the ONLY way of dealing with that situation. "It's not my fault I was toxic, they shot at my ship"

I was not defending toxic behavior at all. I will defend spawncamping after being shot at. But you're conflating toxicity with spawncamping.

Nor am I arguing that TDMers should be left alone. But this is something that you and others in this thread seem to keep bringing up.

I've read comparisons to alliance servers and PvE servers. I've read that we're just complaining about people interfering in the TDM, or asking for protections or a TDM game mode.

I've said multiple times in this thread and I'll say again: I don't mind if you interfere. I don't mind camping. I will ask you to leave me alone, though I cannot force you to. I will not decide for you. You pick. If you choose to leave us alone, then great! Thanks! If not, then great! Come get camped.

What's unfortunate is, as the OP points out, now we can't even communicate our intentions to the other crews.

Here's another way of dealing with the same scenario.... accept that the whole lobby doesn't actually want to engage in TDM this time and play the game as intended. You already said that you'd leave a lobby if it looked like you weren't going to get a TDM one.

No, what I said was that I'd leave a lobby if I had no one to TDM with. Not that I'd leave if the entire lobby isn't TDMing.

Even if I have 1 ship to TDM with, I'm staying in that lobby. Most of the time, depending on how many friends are interested, we might keep re-queuing lobbies until we have 3 ships.

If 3 or 4 out of 5 ships in a lobby want to TDM, who is really speaking for "the whole lobby"? And if there are only 2 ships TDMing, is this really "ruining the experience" for the 3 other ships, as some of you claim?

@jadescissors32 Lol idk what you mean by mini TDM, but this is just the nature of arena when it comes to TDMs.

Unless all 5 ships are participating, or unless I know the naval crews are chill, I'm pretty much expecting to be interrupted.

Again, I don't really mind being interrupted lol. Camping is fun too. But before this update, we used to be able to reason with crews. We would tell them to dig the chest, naval other crews, or to grab a pistol+sniper and join us. Sometimes they'd listen. Sometimes they'd pretend to listen. Sometimes they'd get salty and repeatedly come back to sink or scuttle. This is arena.

My issue with the default muting is that now we can't communicate to those crews. Some are experienced PLs who know what they're getting into, like you pointed out. But some are just new players who ended up in the wrong open crew, firing at the wrong TDM.

@expsnailer As my account is active and fine, whatever I have been doing clearly hasn't been bannable.

I'll wait for Rare to tell me to stop TDMing, and make it mandatory to play the objective or play to win. Till then, I'll worry about me and you can worry about your own business like a good sea dog.

@jadescissors32 i think you're kinda comparing apples and bananas here, or rather pineapples and bananas...

@jadescissors32 said in No Voice/Text coms in arena already causing issues:

@stundorn Uh Arena is TDM mode... just like in every other game. Instead of Tanks , planes or cars, you use ships. There are Teams and there is match, and Team with highest score wins but it is a "match of teams". Fort play is pretty much mini TDM. For those that don't give a much about total score.
I run Reaper often, so often in fact that I am all level up with majority of commendations done. I had been attacked more than on few occasions by multiple ships and those crews always attempt boarding. I mean talking about sloop fighting alliance server at the same time with all ships circling FOTD .
Should we cry that we have multiple ships attacking? Should we cry that 2 people are getting attacked and boarded by 12 people ?
The only bullies that harass people are those that come to Fort to sink ships. Those people will get spawn camped and will end up on the bottom of ledger. Now with out chat or voice they can't claim anything. Their actions will be recorded and they will get reported to XBOX and Rare for unsporting behavior. So go ahead lets see what happens when somebody gets reported by multiple people.
If people joined on mini TDM maybe they would get better and not got their rear end kicked by two players on the sloop :)

Oh the irony, you complaining and reporting players actually playing the mode while you grief them until they quit. You and your ilk do not have a leg to stand on in this instance and I hope that the lot of you are reported for harassment for your unsportsmanlike actions. Furthermore the "proof" you submit I feel will indict YOU more than other players - both for griefing/harassment as well as filing false reports - how can you honestly report people playing the competitive mode as it is designed while your group ignores the rules? Pathetic!

Again Arena is NOT a deathmatch mode as I laid out the definition earlier - it is an objective based mode with multiple ways to victory. last time I checked all other games with a deathmatch mode (and the definition backs it up as well) is that points are accrued by killing other players - not landing shots on ships or turning in chests (similar to capture the flag or Oddball in Halo). There is no deathmatch mode nor is it supported by Rare - if they did don't you think they would have introduced it themselves? As long as you people are disrupting actual Arena matches, you have no leg to stand on.

@jadescissors32 The only one spreading misinformation here is you and your ilk to justify subverting Arena mode to your liking and griefing anyone that interferes with you by PLAYING THE MODE AS INTENDED. You are no more entitled to a "safe space" in Arena to play an unsanctioned/unsupported match than the PvE crowd requesting safe spaces and PvP free servers. All you are doing is trying to justify you playing the game against the rules in a competitive mode and abusing anyone on there that doesn't want to play your game but rather interested in playing the actual mode which IS NOT DEATHMATCH BY DEFINITION.

You are the only one being ridiculous with your lame justifications of bending the rules and abusing others that don't want to play your little game.

Lets hope you TDM Pirates get the tools you desire to continue to play how you like with the addition of Private servers.
That way you won't have to feel some sort of way about others coming into, what is essentially an open session, and causing havoc to your preferred method of play.
Sure you will not be gaining any rep or coin while there but you will be able to TDM to your hearts content with far fewer restrictions.

@dlchief58 Arena is not a deathmatch mode. So I disagree with Jade there, and hopefully that diffuses some of your bias against the "ilk".

Now, just because it isn't a deathmatch mode doesn't mean it isn't possible to TDM in it. Speaking of "lame justifications," you keep bringing up rules, but there are no rules against doing so.

There are no rules stating whether crews fight for a chest, or anchor an opponent and unload all their cannon balls into them. There are no rules dictating that crews have to attempt to win, and thus there are no rules against boarding an opponent and killing them the whole match for your weapon commendations. Until Rare mandates that we play a certain way, I'll pay how I want.

You, like others, are also trying to twist this topic into a request for a safe space. Most of the "ilk" (that I play with) doesn't mind interruption, and so we don't need protection. Unless the lobby is chill & full of regulars, I'm expecting interruption, and I don't really mind camping.

However, I used to be able to explain the situation to the interfering crews; now I no longer can, and that makes it worse for them than it does for me.

@theblackbellamy said in No Voice/Text coms in arena already causing issues:

@dlchief58 Arena is not a deathmatch mode. So I disagree with Jade there, and hopefully that diffuses some of your bias towards the "ilk".

Now, just because it isn't a deathmatch mode doesn't mean it isn't possible to TDM in it. Speaking of "lame justifications," you keep bringing up rules, but there are no rules against doing so.

There are no rules stating whether crews fight for a chest, or anchor an opponent and unload all their cannon balls into them. There are no rules dictating that crews have to attempt to win, and thus there are no rules against boarding an opponent and killing them the whole match for your weapon commendations. Until Rare mandates that we play a certain way, I'll pay how I want.

You, like others, are also trying to twist this topic into a request for a safe space. Most of the "ilk" (that I play with) doesn't really mind interruption, and so we don't really need protection. Unless the lobby is chill & full of regulars, I'm expecting interruption, and I don't really mind camping.

However, I used to be able to explain the situation to the interfering crews; now I no longer can, and that makes it worse for them than it does for me.

Glad someone here has a lick of sense in some regards. Anyone with a minimal amount of game knowledge would know that Arena is anything but a deathmatch. It can be turned into that (as you guys have shown) but that was never the intent.

My biggest issue with the TDM crowd is the way people are justifying harassment and griefing of others by spawn camping them until they play along or quit. THAT is clearly against the rules and code of conduct. You say I am bringing up rules that don't exist, well there's one right there. But at the same time a lot of you are punishing others for not playing as you do, where they may be playing the mode more as designed/expected - sinking ships and such. A lot of you guys don't like that so seek to punish them by harassment until they submit or quit. Furthermore this mode is not a sandbox like Adventure, so no you don't get to "play as you want" if it interferes with others playing it AS INTENDED. It is you that are interfering with the game mode, not the other way around. In fact you'd be more justified trying to pull this off in Adventure than Arena, though harder to accomplish in terms of assembling your players due to the higher population.

And from many of the posts here, it is plain that some do want a safe space to do their little TDM and will harass, punish, and grief anyone that gets in their way. It is all here in black and white, nothing to debate here.

If the mode was ranked, you guys wouldn't have a leg to stand on in your defense of what you are doing. Right now it is more a grey area, and I am against it because it limits true Arena players the option to play and get their commendations, cosmetics and achievements - especially when the population is so low at this time. I also oppose those that spawn camp in order to force others to do what they want, whether it be join or quit, and have absolutely no respect for those that try to defend such actions.

@dlchief58 Lol well you may not have any respect for us, but I respect your opinion, though I disagree and find it narrow-minded.

No one forces anyone to do anything. We can ask them to leave be us to TDM, or join us, but we have no control over what they do. There's no way to grief them, as they can literally just scuttle and come back to attack if they desire lol. We're not stopping them from navaling us, we're just asking them not to.

You can conflate spawncamping with harassment and griefing all you want, but as long as I'm only spawncamping & showboating within the limits of the code of conduct, I'm being a good pirate.

You mentioned playing it "AS INTENDED", in all caps, while vaguely describing that as "sinking ships and such". I said before, and I will say again: there are no rules dictating whether we sink ships or anc' them and farm them. There are no rules forcing us to fight for the chest. There are no rules stating that we have to attempt to win, thus justifying spawncamping for PvP practice or weapon commendations.

There is no one-way to play arena. And until Rare says otherwise, it is totally possible to TDM in it.

If the mode was ranked, you guys wouldn't have a leg to stand on in your defense of what you are doing. Right now it is more a grey area, and I am against it because it limits true Arena players the option to play and get their commendations, cosmetics and achievements - especially when the population is so low at this time. I also oppose those that spawn camp in order to force others to do what they want, whether it be join or quit, and have absolutely no respect for those that try to defend such actions.

IF the mode was ranked, there would be a lot less TDM going on in general because then there would be an actual challenge in arena against similarly skilled players.

Also if a ship goes to a fort that has a TDM going on there should be no surprise if they get killed, be it by one crew or all of them. And technically assuming they manage to hit even a few cannonballs at the parked ships they are likely to be at the top of the scoreboard which by the "standard arena rules as intended" make them the priority target.

They arent neccessarily being demanded or forced to leave the game or join, they are free to scuttle at any point. Spawncamping just happens to be the easiest way to stop them from sinking your own ship, getting more points and is a valid strategy at any point anyway. This is what arena is anyway, doesn't matter if its next to a fort anyone can do it anywhere.

When you start throwing in insults and toxic voice that is where the line is, does not matter if it comes from the attacker or defender, purposefully insulting others for any reason is not ok.