Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    Long story short: we were pursuing a ship that we had a quarrel with, they kept jumping overboard, climbing our ship's ladder, dropping our anchor, die.. repeat. It was ridiculous.
    If we could have an option to barricade the ladders some way when we don't want others to climb aboard, that would be great.

    Whining part: I have no problem with the method they handled this situation, I have problem with that we could not do anything about it.
    We had to handle the sails and the mast, by the time we noticed a white name climbing up, he was already hopping towards the anchor controls.
    We could not assign two person to watch the ladders, or to zigzag while on their tail.

    Actual suggestion: If we could place a board over the ladders, that could be destroyed from the ladder in like 2-3 seconds, but at least give us a sound clue of the other party, it could prevent these kinds of s**t-show, but still give them the opinion to do so.
    Would be nice if cannonplay and sailing were on the high point here.

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  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Either your idea which I like or just allow ladders to be pulled up and dropped on a timer similar to the anchor. This would mean players couldn’t drop moving ships ladders, and if the the entire crew that the ship belonged to fell off with it moving they kinda deserve to have to use the mermaid lol.

    Who knows if they will ever add the boarding axes we heard about on reddit... maybe they have more plans that would make this suggestion not matter anyways, but honestly I kinda doubt it at this point. Each update kinda seems like a random addition with no real plan to connect mechanics in a meaningful way..

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    you do have an option to barricade your ladders.. just pay attention and if you hear any one or see someone swimming/mermaid.. block the ladder with a shotgun.

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    @savagetwinky I appreciate that you have read the entire first part.
    We didn't hear swimming sounds or mermaids. I don't even know how hearable swimming is, I had to turn the volume down to not get deafened because of the other loud sounds.
    Sure, we knew they were in the water, but if we start to guard the ladders, then we lose the wind while turning after them.
    I am not writing here to whine about why we got beaten by those with more expertise with the game mechanics. But because I think this would be a nice addition.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @diorys said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @savagetwinky I appreciate that you have read the entire first part.
    We didn't hear swimming sounds or mermaids. I don't even know how hearable swimming is, I had to turn the volume down to not get deafened because of the other loud sounds.
    Sure, we knew they were in the water, but if we start to guard the ladders, then we lose the wind while turning after them.
    I am not writing here to whine about why we got beaten by those with more expertise with the game mechanics. But because I think this would be a nice addition.

    swimming is very hear able. And you don't have to hang out on the ladders indefinitely to protect them. All you have to do is pay attention.. its not like you have to dedicate 100% of time to sails.. move the sails.. check the waters, rinse/repeat.

    And your team mates should be calling it out if they spot any one in the water.

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    @savagetwinky Okay, never mind that. We got beaten, we could have heard them come, and defend the ladders. But I still have this suggestion. Do you have anything else to add, except that you don't like it, and you could easily handle this situation?

    It might be only me, but I have a hard time catching swimming players in the sea, especially at night.
    All I ask is an opinion other than constantly checking the ladders with a shotgun.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @diorys said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @savagetwinky Okay, never mind that. We got beaten, we could have heard them come, and defend the ladders. But I still have this suggestion. Do you have anything else to add, except that you don't like it, and you could easily handle this situation?

    It might be only me, but I have a hard time catching swimming players in the sea, especially at night.
    All I ask is an opinion other than constantly checking the ladders with a shotgun.

    yah its a bad suggestion since it eliminates a easily defensible tactic that gives slower ships like the sloop a way to deny a galleon from always running it down or to the edge of the map sailing into the wind for 3 hours.

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    @savagetwinky Thats a fair argument. Although galleons are mostly used by 4 player crews that have at least one disposable person to look for swimmers. In our case we pursued a galleon on a brig. I don't know much about ship speeds, how is a brig compared to the other two?

    How about this one: The galleon has a static plank on the side, what if it was converted into a dynamically rotatable plank on hinges.
    It would be placed on the ladders on the sloop and the brig, and next to the ladder on the galleon. It could be rotated with like a 1-2 seconds delay. If it is out, it could be used to easily board another ship next to you, and to block the ladder on the brig and sloop.
    It would also be a nice feature if while standing on it during the rotation, it would catapult the player to like 5-10 meters.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @diorys said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @savagetwinky Thats a fair argument. Although galleons are mostly used by 4 player crews that have at least one disposable person to look for swimmers. In our case we pursued a galleon on a brig. I don't know much about ship speeds, how is a brig compared to the other two?

    Does it matter how fast the brig is? It also has a disposable person when you have 3 people 2 sails compared to 4 people 3 sails. The gal has no more free people than the brig. Even the sloop can have 2 people to 1 sail. Each boat has 1 person to stear and enough to manage each sail.

    So the speed is irrelevant. If the galleon didn't want to fight and just wanted to buy some time, its still a legit tactic. One that if your team members were paying attention to the ladders/water between adjustments would be easily stoppable.

    How about this one: The galleon has a static plank on the side, what if it was converted into a dynamically rotatable plank on hinges.
    It would be placed on the ladders on the sloop and the brig, and next to the ladder on the galleon. It could be rotated with like a 1-2 seconds delay. If it is out, it could be used to easily board another ship next to you, and to block the ladder on the brig and sloop.
    It would also be a nice feature if while standing on it during the rotation, it would catapult the player to like 5-10 meters.

    I'm against blocking the ladders. Changing the implementation doesn't change the fact that its easy to stop people from getting on your ship if your paying attention.. which you should be.

    Are you asking for a diving board also? Its an entirely different suggestion and unrelated to the one we are talking about.

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    @savagetwinky It is not unrelated at all. I am just tossing ideas around. It is still about implementing a feature to make it harder to board from water. Not completely block it, just delay it and alert a non-alerted crew.
    Since the game has so many features to return to your own boat (by mermaid or dying), I would promote a ship to ship boarding, not a ship to water to ship and hope I won't watch the barrel of a shotgun while going up.

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @diorys said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @savagetwinky It is not unrelated at all. I am just tossing ideas around. It is still about implementing a feature to make it harder to board from water. Not completely block it, just delay it and alert a non-alerted crew.
    Since the game has so many features to return to your own boat (by mermaid or dying), I would promote a ship to ship boarding, not a ship to water to ship and hope I won't watch the barrel of a shotgun while going up.

    Yes it is unrelated...

    adding a feature to jump 10-15 meters away from the ship has nothing to do with a feature to block ladders. Nothing about those two mechanics are related in any way.

  • Arrmaro
    Marauder

    @diorys said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    Actual suggestion: If we could place a board over the ladders, that could be destroyed from the ladder in like 2-3 seconds, but at least give us a sound clue of the other party, it could prevent these kinds of s**t-show, but still give them the opinion to do so.
    Would be nice if cannonplay and sailing were on the high point here.

    Just no, boarding is part of the game and a valid tactic. If boarding would be taken out or made pretty much impossible, battles would just be a matter of who has the most supplies. Making boarding impossible by alerting the ship, hanging on a ladder without being able to do anything but looking into a barrel, is a terrible idea.

    There are already three different sounds that people are boarding:

    1. The sound of swimming
    2. The sound of somebody coming out of the water
    3. The sound of climbing a ladder

    If you miss all three of these alerts, you deserve to be boarded.

  • Hynieth
    Master
    Insider

    There's an audible splash sound when someone leaves the water to board a ship. Use that to detect boarders. Also you can guard really easily. Just have 1 crewmember guard the ladders and you're set. They lose someone for a while when he fails boarding so ajusting sails etc is a non issue.

  • h4iry 0range

    @diorys

    What if we turn the tables around and you are the one being chased for 2 hours you have no gunpowders at this point how are you gonna slowdown the guys behind you ? jup you jump on board hit their anchor and keep em busy for as long as possible . so retracting ladders or putting boards infront of an ladder can work in your disadvantage as well.
    However you only need one guy to check both ladders on a galleon just stand on the railing infront of the steeringwheel look down and you'll see both.

  • GutterAngel
    Captain
    Insider

    Best way to avoid being boarded over and over is to not sail in a predictable line behind the one you’re pursuing. You probably werent going to catch them that way anyway so try something else. Pursue outside of the angle range for someone to jump off and board you during your pursuit.

    I don’t have a problem with being boarded because I know when it’s possible based on my sailing and can tell the crew to prepare for a boarder when it does become possible.

  • Foxdodge
    Champion
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @diorys I recommend working on your spatial awareness to have as part of your SOT skill set.

  • Dio5863
    Seafarer

    Ok then, I guess one have to dedicate one of their weapon slots to a blunderbuss, since it is nearly impossible to focus fire and hit two boarders before they could reach the anchor.

    "If they can board your ship and drop your anchor then it is deserved." Sure, in this case it would still be nice to have other methods to fight players on the ladder other than a shotgun to the face.

  • JeblusCrhist
    Seafarer
    Insider
    Founder

    That is where skill comes in and communication! While doing sails and everything you need to have 1 person looking out for people trying to climb on your ship. This does not need fixed your team just needs to use some communication.

  • Sytoki
    Marauder
    Insider

    But there is a sound clue, the enemies climbing the ladders. I agree it’s annoying but it works as a mechanic. If you’re chasing someone with loot, it’s a lot easier to catch them if you don’t have to worry about boarders. But with boarders you’re 1 member short to watch ladders, making it down to communication to whether you catch the enemy ship. Remember, they’re also down a member.

  • Ve111a
    Ship Mate

    I don't like the idea of blocking actions. Everything in the game has a counter and audio cues. The ladders are easily watched especially in a pursuit. Watch for jumpers or listen to the splashing.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Guarding ladders isn’t such a well designed part of combat that it should be defended as vigorously as people do... a recurring theme I see is that people would rather find excuses to not add anything to the game than a reason why it should be added.

    The ship combat is way to CQC oriented, sure they may need to readjust how faster water fills from cannons or the bucket or something if they block ladders but it would be a positive thing for them to try changes like this atleast in the pioneer sessions.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @h4iry-0range said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @diorys

    What if we turn the tables around and you are the one being chased for 2 hours you have no gunpowders at this point how are you gonna slowdown the guys behind you ? jup you jump on board hit their anchor and keep em busy for as long as possible . so retracting ladders or putting boards infront of an ladder can work in your disadvantage as well.
    However you only need one guy to check both ladders on a galleon just stand on the railing infront of the steeringwheel look down and you'll see both.

    Is it really so much to ask for people to realize that running for 2 hours is just turtling the combat, with or without ladder boarding... they should realize it’s a game and turn and fight imo, and beyond that are you guys really defending the use of suicide boarder mermaid teleporters becAuse “you can hear them though! Have some awareness get gud” is pretty much what half the responses amount to. Some were good advice based on ladder boarding being a thing now, but this thread is the place to discuss if there is a way to block ladder boarding to improve ship combat, and the guy clearly is trying to be nice and just get opinions on his idea and how it could work rather than why anyone thinks it shouldn’t be changed.

    Beyond that just because we have found a way to deal with the game the way it is by guarding ladders, which I don’t have a problem with, dosnt make throwing away lives using a mermaid teleporter something that is the end all of combat that can’t be improved. It really needs to be fixed. There should be forward and aft cannons to force fights, the game shouldn’t be designed so heavily around nobody sinking unless they are oblivious or get spawn camped. There should be a better tipping point for ship combat.

  • DrunkPunk138
    Master
    Founder

    I am fully against implementing mechanics as an alternative to using the tools already present to deal with such a threat. The tools are there, use them. Yes, you won't be able to catch them 100% of the time. That's the nature of the sometimes chaotic experience that is PvP, and part of what makes or breaks encounters.

    I am of the mind that things like the very distinct audio cue that someone has grabbed your ladder, along with swimming sounds, the mermaid and that audio cue, and the simple act of paying attention are more than sufficient to allow a person to respond accordingly. Disabling the ladder in any scenario would simply result in further drawn out chases and battles, two things that people already complain about way more than I think is warranted. Solving one perceived problem (which is debatable at best) to only exacerbate another perceived problem certainly isn't the way to go.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @drunkpunk138 does an Audio cue really make suicide ladder boarding with mermaid teleport back up good game design that can’t be improved upon??? Especially when the only thing that comes out of this is that combat is a boring turtle where players can just throw away their lives without any meaning to them...

    This unarguably is poor game design whether we have the tools to deal with it or not. It’s the farthest thing from immersive and it gives way to big of an advantage in combat to people who are actively trying to avoid combat. It makes no sense to be able to throw away 20 lives with no penalty by doing this when your crew has max 4 people.

    If mermaid teleports were changed to have even a 15 minute timer, meaning that if someone missed or got knocked off they wouldn’t help with sailing for a time and would give the chasing crew an edge in the chase for a time, if they failed to board or weren’t killed but knocked off.

    This needs a change of some sort... the options for aft cannons on sloops, forward cannons on galleons and the option to trade all side cannons for a single fore and aft cannon on the brigantine would be cool, a mermaid teleporter limit, or as discussed either the ladder being rolled up or blocked in some way.

    These are all better suggestions in a feedback forum than

    “Get gud and use the shotgun, mermaid suicide boarding is the best thing ever!” Lol

  • DrunkPunk138
    Master
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    This unarguably is poor game design

    I think, given the fierce disagreement within this community on this suggestion, this statement is quite untrue. I personally think it is unarguably bad game design to further restrict the methods of engagement by something as thoughtless as disabling the ladders, especially when you consider that would be the only state to have them in while traveling. You can turn any concept into a snarky and abrasive sentence and make it sound, but the same can be said for any of those suggestions you listed, all of which have been discussed and shot down for a variety of reasons over the life of this forum. If we try to dumb down the PvP in this game in every which way because some people have a hard time listening to a simple little audio cue, we'll have quite the neutered experience. And make no mistake, having ladders inaccessible any time a ship is moving (because that's what would naturally happen, because why wouldn't you?) would dumb down the experience.

    In response to a previous post of yours, a recurring theme in this forum is to find excuses to remove any aspect of PvP they suffer in rather than try to improve their own abilities. I don't like using the language or even the concept of "git gud", but at some point you have to take a look around and realize that you're in the minority of people who can't handle such a simple strategy and stop asking the game to change to benefit your playstyle.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @drunkpunk138 said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @a-cranky-eskimo said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    This unarguably is poor game design

    I think, given the fierce disagreement within this community on this suggestion, this statement is quite untrue. I personally think it is unarguably bad game design to further restrict the methods of engagement by something as thoughtless as disabling the ladders, especially when you consider that would be the only state to have them in while traveling. You can turn any concept into a snarky and abrasive sentence and make it sound, but the same can be said for any of those suggestions you listed, all of which have been discussed and shot down for a variety of reasons over the life of this forum. If we try to dumb down the PvP in this game in every which way because some people have a hard time listening to a simple little audio cue, we'll have quite the neutered experience. And make no mistake, having ladders inaccessible any time a ship is moving (because that's what would naturally happen, because why wouldn't you?) would dumb down the experience.

    Anyone can say anything about anything, that dosnt make it true, and I know that’s what your point is. That’s why I try to be concise with my opinon, that’s all I intend when I put things how I do on this forum.

    If allowing endless suicide boarding isn’t already “dumbed down” idk what is.

    You saying it would always be up is like saying that because it’s better to raise sails and not drop anchor that adding in raising sails will mean people never use the anchor so why bother. It makes no sense and we both know that won’t be true for everyone, until they learn, this game needs 1000 more things to learn and affect the gameplay not people shooting down ideas to keep the game stagnating in mediocrity like it has been.

    In response to a previous post of yours, a recurring theme in this forum is to find excuses to remove any aspect of PvP they suffer in rather than try to improve their own abilities. I don't like using the language or even the concept of "git gud", but at some point you have to take a look around and realize that you're in the minority of people who can't handle such a simple strategy and stop asking the game to change to benefit your playstyle.

    And this is all you have as a response lol.. I handle ladder boarding just fine dude. That dosnt make it a good combat mechanic... and yes it is a mind numbingly simple strategy on both sides that only serves to turtle the battle.. I’m asking for change in the game because they need to improve on their design because it isn’t fun.

    Ship combat should be ship combat not mermaid suicide boarding and running because you can just keep throwing your life away.

  • Admiral RRRSole

    @diorys No, not the answer, mate.
    You've already conceded that the anchor drop is something we all need to be weary of. So take the appropriate measures to prevent it happening.

    When are you being boarded, whilst anchored, following in a direct line behind a ship or during a sea battle?

    • Don't anchor unless in a storm and always scan the horizon for other vessels before leaving your ship, especially at forts. Every time you die and spawn back onboard take two seconds to scan the horizon before doing anything else.
      If you have the man power, keep someone on board at all times.
    • Never follow directly behind or in line with another vessel.
      You are exposed to boarders with or without gun powder kegs. So don't do it.
    • During a ship battle on the move, surely someone is watching the other vessel and can see players jumping into the water.
      Draw your firearm and watch ladders. You can shoot them before or after they grab the ladder. Why wait until they are on a level playing field (your deck)?
      Take the advantage.

    There still might be some incidents where someone is sneaky enough to board your vessel but if you take the advice there will be far fewer anchor drops applied to your vessel.

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @admiral-rrrsole what do you think about restricting mermaid usage as an alternative to raising ladders?

    Ladder boarding should not be the most effective form of offensive and defensive ship combat

    We can sit here and give solutions based on the game we have, and they might be good advice. However this post is to discuss possibilities and improvements to the game we have, and all your response amounts to is “get gud”.

    Being able to guard a ladder isn’t the solution to the design flaw of mermaid teleporters... that’s the real problem here, not that some people just don’t get ladder boarding. We just think it’s a stupid and unsatisfying mechanic to defend when people have no penalty for throwing their lives away, and without offering any alternate solution idk why people post just to talk down to someone like they just don’t understand.

    If the ladder boarding mermaid teleporting thing actually provided fun gameplay then I would maybe understand just defending it. I don’t see how anyone could think that... if the way to win is basically who has more time and patience that’s fine but there should be penalty for failure, such as mermaids having a timer between uses, or death having a penalty. God forbid we lose like 100 of the pointless gold though right? This community needs to stop impeding the games progress for no good reason. There are atleast 20 posters on these forums that have suggested enough ideas that this game could be a lot more than it is right now if they listened to the right people, and some of those are people I disagree with half the time but I still respect that they would rather the game progress than continue at the pace it has been going at.. simple things like changing how ladders work or letting us close the hatch to the stairs or the captains cabin door, we need the game to have more to it even if it’s small additions that some people think aren’t neccesary.

    Saying we shouldn’t be able to raise ladders or close the door because we can just guard it with a shotgun is just pointless and negative when it comes to feedback for them to continue designing this game. And again maybe if the mechanics people were defending were worth defending I wouldn’t be so adamant about this. I can’t possibly believe that you guys really think this mermaid teleport ladder boarding turtling is good design...

    if you like it because it provides some combat in an otherwise slow paced game I would agree that I enjoy the combat too, but they can and should provide other avenues for us to engage in combat rather than people defending endless ladder boarding scenarios..

  • Admiral RRRSole

    I'm sorry @a-cranky-eskimo I don't have a clue of what you mean by....

    I can’t possibly believe that you guys really think this mermaid teleport ladder boarding turtling is good design...

    Maybe I'm too old but what the bloody hell is "mermaid teleport ladder boarding"?

  • mich2mars
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @a-cranky-eskimo You talk about "flawed gameplay design" and the solution you come with is putting a "timer" on mermaids!?!
    Have you really thought of the consequences of this?

  • Arrmaro
    Marauder

    @diorys
    No matter what weapon you hit people with, every single on will hit people off the ladder. So yes, if you gave them the time to get up on your ship it is deserved.

  • Arrmaro
    Marauder

    @a-cranky-eskimo
    Boarding is the only way for people who don't want to PvP or just want to get their loot safe, to actually stop people from chasing. Or atleast give them the time to finish what they are doing.

    If you take the boarding out, chases will be endless. It will just be two ships sailing behind each other. One is sailing away and wants to lose the other ship, one is just endlessly chasing not caring that he doesn't gain distance.

    Taking boarding out by giving people the option to sail with ladders up, which will always be up if this would be introduced because why leave it down, will not improve PvP. It will just become and endless cat and mouse game.

    Understand that if somebody tries to board, they are down a crewmate. This is your time to catch up, you have a timeframe where one of their crewmates is in the water and you have an advantage. Use that advantage.

    And me and others are not saying 'git gud', we're telling them about features in this game that can help them with their situation. Because apparently there are people, like OP, who have no idea about the sound clues etc.

  • Nefrit Od
    Master
    Insider

    Ohhh we SO needed "Dislike" function for topics like this.
    10 guys telling 1 guy - man thats will not work, think about consequences, place yourself on oposite site.
    Nope not gonna happen he just not listening.

  • m1sterpunch
    Master
    Insider

    So you're chasing a ship and they send boarders behind to drop your anchor and you're complaining that you're the one that's at the disadvantage?

    You are the aggressor. This is literally their only means of defence besides stopping and engaging you which is a bad idea if they have anything of value as it's a no risk for you, high risk for them. Unless they had kegs aboard, their only options are maneuvering with the wind or around obstacles or to slow and hinder you the best they can until you sink or give up.

    As a solo sloop I will aim into the wind, drop back and try and board, I will hit the anchor then kill you while you attempt to raise. If you do get it up and I still kill you I will reload, steal your supplies and steer your ship into the closest rock. Then drop your anchor again when you spawn. I'll either wait until you sink or you kill me and i'm back aboard my ship.

    At no point does this game need retractable ladders. Boarding is necessary for sinking a ship as it should be. Learn to guard ladders or maybe stop chasing ships you can't catch?

  • A Cranky Eskimo
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @mich2mars said in Placing boards over ladders at the side of the ship:

    @a-cranky-eskimo You talk about "flawed gameplay design" and the solution you come with is putting a "timer" on mermaids!?!
    Have you really thought of the consequences of this?

    Can you explain some negative ones lol??? No just trying to say I didn’t think? No that was rare who rarely thinks buddy...

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